Windows 8 Release Preview
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LukasTaves
Member
I'm actually testing that scenario right now... More than 100 tiles in my start screen, most of them organized into groups...
My Categories so far:
Start (Most used applications) - News - Video - Music - Photo - Office - Developing - Tools - Books - Games - Reference - Study - Shopping - Maps/Navigation - Travel - Gastronomy -
So far it's really nice, any category i want is a semantic zoom away
I can see it becoming a problem if the user has many applications of the same category (like games in your example)... Finding a specific one could becoming a little slower... But i guess in that case you could just lay more specif groups like Action, Puzzles etc.
Sub-tiles could be a nice addition, but i guess they would have to do something to differentiate the master tile from the others... Or maybe they could have some sort of a grouped folder template, like they do on 360:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...011/12/5/1323073563164/Xbox-dashboard-007.jpg
That would work nicely..
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
I agree with a lot of what you said. the search is annoying in that it categorises the items between 'apps/settings/files' and you have to actually click (keyboard shortcut anywhere?) on the one you want if it's not apps.
For those of you that installed 64Bit, did you know that a full Hyper V is available as a windows default? You can just run virtual machines if you want. you do have to add the windows feature first, but it's there. and that's a massive 'holy shit that's better than win 7' item.
EDIT: for those of you worried about 'but what about 100 or more things of each category'
I don't think it's actually really possible. As in I don't think your mind can cope with and organise that many things. it's just extra shit you don't actually use. Kind of the same problem faced by IOS I guess. I mean you can group them in folders on IOS, but then take Macs, they have the launcher, then the apps folder... I dunno I don't think most people will really be able to deal with this many apps. I actively remove stuff like for instance 'putty' if I need that, I'll just type 'put' and then click it when it pops up in the search.
October 26th
Is it possible for desktop applications have Metro looking icons for in Start Screen? Because the way desktop items are displayed currently is jarring.
Might as well install W8 since my msdn account seems to be still active despite graduating a while ago
no... there are nicer icons now, but way less functionality than Metro apps thats for sure.
chickdigger802
Banned
Any sites with multimonitor screenies? Curious how the 'start menu' thing works.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Start menu is only displayed on a single monitor, but you can choose where it opens and you just click and drag from the top when you want to move it somewhere else. The desktop is displayed on all other monitors.
I don't have windows 8, but I have seen videos of it. I kind of understand the annoyance of having to use metro with a mouse as opposed to touch. Metro provides the same kind of things but in a less intuitive and efficient way when using a mouse. People want the traditional start menu because they believe it is a better design when using the mouse than the metro interface is.
You could pin your apps, but why is that better than simply having your apps there to begin with? If you're going to do things in an attempt to try and make it work more like windows 7 then you're better off with windows 7.
To understand why it's changed you have to undersrtand that most Windows users didn't use the All Programs part of Start Menu to launch programs. They would use pinned apps or the desktop to launch programs because large icons are easier for a typical mouse user to hit than nested folders and lists.
Now the Start menu is all large icons with no folders. You can say it's dumbing the interface down but it is in no way less intuitive or efficient.
antiquegamer
Member
It's no harder to use than the old Start menu. Actually I think it's easier because it's bigger and you can arrange it anyway you please.
I don't agree at all. Some good points have been brought up on this actually.
The traditional start menu has quite a few options all in one place and very easy to click. To get similar options in metro is far less intuitive or efficient for a mouse user. The traditional options seem to be all over the place and require a few more clicks to get to. Not only that, you're juggling between two different interfaces.
Moving the cursor to the corner of the screen to bring up options and then going to settings to turn it off, is not intuitive for your typical windows user, and not nearly as efficient as going to one place where everything is there and available with one mouse click. A lot of the features are there with touch in mind.
crisdecuba
Member
Okay, so I'm running the Windows 8 Release Preview.
I was thinking of installing the RTM (it's Windows 8 Enterprise, right?)
At the end of the 90 day period, can I switch to regular Windows 8 without losing all my stuff?
I was thinking of installing the RTM (it's Windows 8 Enterprise, right?)
At the end of the 90 day period, can I switch to regular Windows 8 without losing all my stuff?
funny but just got me thinking - WinMo failed because it tried to bring Windows interface to a phone, which simply couldnt work... now they are trying to put phone interface to a desktop... Thats classic 360.
RTM means release to manufacturing (aka its done) There are a few different versions of Windows 8 and Enterprise is one of them. The versions on MSDN, TechNet and Dreamspark I believe is just Windows 8 Pro.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
I want this to be my next laptop so bad.... I wish I had more specs on it. Screen resoution is important to me.
http://www.neowin.net/news/lenovo-teases-windows-8-or-windows-rt-yoga-reveal
The 3-Tile high config seems to suggest a 1366 res but PPI could also play a factor.
http://www.neowin.net/news/lenovo-teases-windows-8-or-windows-rt-yoga-reveal
The 3-Tile high config seems to suggest a 1366 res but PPI could also play a factor.
Well, this is all an attempt to take on Apple of course. It is also motivated by the Microsoft store I imagine.
I will point out that I haven't actually used Windows 8. Watching someone use it and using it yourself can be two different things sometimes.
I have watched videos of it on youtube though and feel they do bring up some valid points.
Both of these videos bring up some pretty good points I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0fsyb-ttcw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIMuJTrxuhQ
haven't watched the second one but have watched part of the 1st one, the only valid point those guys seem to make is that they have no idea what they are doing. I guess I should probably make a video...I don't have a mic though.
Zombie James
Banned
Which options are you talking about? The admin menu you get from right clicking the Start icon covers most things.
Also there's nothing "intuitive" about the Control Panel in any version of Windows. Most of the time I see people aimlessly click around. There's a big difference between learned behavior and intuitive.
Then, why can't I right click on files inside the Metro menu? Why can't I pin files or folders on the main page?
There is just so many basic things that Metro can't do.
Well, I wouldn't know, but lets talk about opening two apps in metro for instance. Can you resize the windows so that they both take up half of the screen? It is a minor issue, but some people find use in doing that.
Watch the second one and see if he has some valid points.
I would say Windows 7 is a little more intuitive than Windows Vista in a number of places. It seems to me that windows 7 is more intuitive than windows 8 anyway. You certainly have to mess around with windows 8 a lot more to find where everything is.
What options are you having a problem finding?
lol
I don't know. As I said, I don't actually have Windows 8. I am basing it entirely on what people have said about Windows 8.
I can tell it is less intuitive though because a lot of features are designed with touch screen in mind. A lot of things are hidden until you put the cursor to the corner of the screen. There are maybe shortcuts for these options but nothing is apparent when initially using it. Why would anyone intuitively think that you need to move the cursor to the corner of the screen to access hidden options in order to shut down the computer?
You're really stretching the usage of the word intuitive here.
Moving something by opening multiple folders and dragging it from one window to another is intuitive, but if I spend 30 seconds learning to use cut and paste I can move stuff far more quickly.
Learning to use stuff is not a bad thing. Expecting a user to take two minutes to learn about corner gestures is not asking a lot.
Moving something by opening multiple folders and dragging it from one window to another is intuitive, but if I spend 30 seconds learning to use cut and paste I can move stuff far more quickly.
Learning to use stuff is not a bad thing. Expecting a user to take two minutes to learn about corner gestures is not asking a lot.
much better. Their complaints seem to be around separating search which to me is very minor but one of those guys seems to think its a catastrophe. Another is closing applications, I honestly find it faster to close the applications by dragging down from the top, they were doing it pretty slow to be honest. You can do it very fast. (I always put my mouse speed up to the max anyway). They also need to realize that the new applications don't need to be closed, those are suspended after a short time. I use two monitors (main on the left), in the consumer preview it was a bitch to get the charms bar to open but in the release preview and the rtm it is much better. still not as good if it were just one screen but much better, I have been using Windows 8 for a long time now so I have that motion down perfectly but I can see how that can be annoying. And the scroll wheel in search, I honestly never really knew about that little thing, I guess I always click in the area first or something, anyway very minor. I knew about the weather app though, that can be annoying, that is the only app that I see that has that design though (I don't care for it that much).
Anyway, their huge complaints seem minor to me. /shrug.
there are only 3 sizes. full screen, 3/4, 1/4. I wish they did have 50/50 though.
And I just watched the second video, with the lock screen you can press any key (where is the any key! lol j/k) You don't need to drag up, and I have found the lock screen to be useful, I have come back from being away for awhile have looked at the screen and seen some notifications which is nice.
He was using the Consumer Preview which when you install does not have any kind of tutorial, in the RTM when installing there is a message telling you to use the corner UIs. Personally I hope there is more help at general availability, perhaps a application pinned on the start screen or something. As for the Power under settings, I think most people don't shut down their pc any more, but anyway its just as intuitive as start to shut down as he said, which I guess isn't saying much. Once you do it once though then I people will be fine imo. Just need to have hints to say hey move your mouse in the corners which I don't think the RTM has enough of. And as for finding stuff like control panel, he needs to learn how to search, I haven't used any kind of menu system since XP to find stuff in Windows. If I want to improve the mouse speed I type mouse speed if I want to get the control panel, I type control panel. Much easier than having to look through menus.
Jzero
Member
Totally agree. They seem to be making minor problems into huge ones. The ads in the applications is the only "huge" problem for me.
At least you admitted it.
I don't think I am.
in·tu·i·tive/inˈt
o͞oitiv/Adjective:
Using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.
(chiefly of computer software) Easy to use and understand.
You could say having to press a start button to shut down a computer isn't all that intuitive, but it is a damn sight more intuitive than being placed in a settings option that is completely hidden unless you place the cursor in a certain area on the screen.
Of course people can learn these things, but the point is more along the lines of it originally being in a place where every Windows user is very familiar with and them changing it in such a way that there is absolutely no indication of where they have put it.
Whether it is intuitive or not is only one of the questions though I feel. Is metro actually a better and more efficient user experience for advanced desktop users than the traditional layout?
Windows 8 certainly has some good features, and I have heard it is a very fast and stable OS, but in terms of the UI is it really better?
I only really have the opinions of others to go by. I imagine you would say it is, but others would disagree. The thing is, it shouldn't really forced on you like that.
Even without ads the music and video apps are pretty awful.
What's the problem with ads in apps? Look at the News app, for example. Which do you think is better?
There's also a policy for the app store that bans developers from using live tiles for any sort of advertising, so you won't see any ads on the start screen:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh694083
Read section 2, which then links to section 5.
There's also a policy for the app store that bans developers from using live tiles for any sort of advertising, so you won't see any ads on the start screen:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh694083
Read section 2, which then links to section 5.
Jzero
Member
Yea but i use VLC anyways so i don't use those apps.
I don't think I am.
in·tu·i·tive/inˈt
Adjective:
Using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.
(chiefly of computer software) Easy to use and understand.
You could say having to press a start button to shut down a computer isn't all that intuitive, but it is a damn sight more intuitive than being placed in a settings option that is completely hidden unless you place the cursor in a certain area on the screen.
Of course people can learn these things, but the point is more along the lines of it originally being in a place where every Windows user is very familiar with and them changing it in such a way that there is absolutely no indication of where they have put it.
Whether it is intuitive or not is only one of the questions though I feel. Is metro actually a better and more efficient user experience for advanced desktop users than the traditional layout?
Windows 8 certainly has some good features, and I have heard it is a very fast and stable OS, but in terms of UI is really better?
I only really have the opinions of others to go by. I imagine you would say it is, but others would disagree. The thing is, it shouldn't really forced on you like that.
You could have it installed by now instead of arguing about whether "Power" is appropriately placed under Settings or not.
Hitting the power button is 35% more intuitive than either.
yn-neko hates a cat
Banned
There complaint about the animation lagging was total BS. The system was in the hotspot decission area to determing if it was a drag left/right for snap view or a drag down for close. They make it seem as though the system lagged but you could clearly see the window still gittering left to right until he left the hotspot decision area.
When they pull this kind of stuff, the speed up their talking and try to make the whole thing go by as fast as possible as though they were trying to do a slight-of-hand street act. Shaddy.
Whether it is intuitive was only part of what I was originally talking about. It was more about the user-experience in general. From what I have seen of the new start menu, I don't really like it, so I am in no hurry really to try it out.
Nah, he said start to shut down wasn't that intuitive, but more intuitive than where they put it in Windows 8. The point he made though was that for experienced Windows users it is a lot less intuitive.
You've cleared a few things up for me though. I would say that I think some people would prefer simply clicking the mouse to get to control panel than opening up search and typing it. Not sure which would be faster in Windows 8. I imagine for some people it would be easier just to click.
I think personally, just juggling between metro and desktop seems a bit off putting. I would prefer to be able to do everything in desktop with a normal start menu. If there is one issue I have, it is simply the lack of that option.
LukasTaves
Member
I think the start screen is a lot better in managing apps than both star menu or the desktop itself...
The start menu is cluttered with folders and all applications that you install but almost never doesn't really need to directly open (like winrar or a media player), and it's arranged by name, which is a terrible way to find stuff, if you forget the name of what you are trying to search.
The desktop can quickly become a catastrophe if you add many icons, specially if you are using a notebook and tend to hook it up on different monitors. All they layout that you meticulously crafted turns into a mess.
The start screen allows you to only pin apps that you want to open (Apps that you need to install, but don't wanna open directly like the example above never clutter the apps you do want to use). It allows you to group apps by function instead of name, so even if you don't remember the name, you can find it because you organized it on a meaningful way to you.
And it stays organized no matter resolution or screen size you are using... Also, i don't how Ms is going to handle cloud syncing for this, but it's probably possible to sync the layout, so even if you use the same screen on different devices they will stay the way you want. That's a functionality that desktop doesn't provide.
And on top of that, you get more apps on the screen at once, and with the fact that they use a minimalist background (both the screen itself and the tiles) it's better to spot each app individually.
And finally, the tiles are live, and can provide information that would require an separate widget on the desktop, but on the start screen is integrated with your layout and your apps.
For me, even if i was going to use w8 solely for the desktop the start screen would be a valid addition. It does take a little getting used to, but once you get there it's a hell of a lot better.
Iced_Eagle
Member
No. The enterprise eval version can not be upgraded to a non eval copy. Do not try to use that version as your main OS.
You want either Windows 8 or Windows 8 Pro.
Yeah. I won't go on anymore about this as I haven't actually used it. There are good features in windows 8, I know, but my concern is purely to do with how well a mouse works with a UI that has touchscreen as the main focus and the way it is split into two parts almost. The beauty of the traditional start menu is that it has everything in one place. You want to go to 'my documents' or 'my pictures' or simply shut down the computer, it is all in one place and a simple click away. Also I worry that metro, and more modern apps won't have the functionality you might expect it to. That certain things are sacrificed in order to make it user-friendly to touchscreen users.
chickdigger802
Banned
What's the problem with ads in apps? Look at the News app, for example. Which do you think is better?
There's also a policy for the app store that bans developers from using live tiles for any sort of advertising, so you won't see any ads on the start screen:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr.../apps/hh694083
Read section 2, which then links to section 5.
Wonder why that doesn't apply to xbox dashboard...
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Because they can get away with bloody murder on console (charging for online access) whereas they couldn't pull off anything as bad on the PC (and they've tried, see GFWL).
chickdigger802
Banned
One click in the desktop:
wow. wth did you click? Don't remember seeing that anywhere in 7.
its not in 7. right click in the bottom left in 8.
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