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Wkd BO 0707-0917 - Minions cede dominion over box office, Homecoming KING
- Thread starter xaosslug
- Start date
BronsonLee
Member
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I love the Metal Men but they are a concept that DC comics hasn't been able to nail correctly for decades, and I can't imagine they'll get it right in film.
Metal Men works best as an unapologetically kids movie. It's the kind of thing that would work best as a Disney animated thing.
Planet of the Apes - $5m
Box Office Mojo‏@boxofficemojo
'War for the Planet of the @ApesMovies' Delivers Solid $5M from Thursday Previews http://imdb.to/2uodU6D
Box Office Mojo‏@boxofficemojo
'War for the Planet of the @ApesMovies' Delivers Solid $5M from Thursday Previews http://imdb.to/2uodU6D
The 400 million dollar dream won't let itself die.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
A female and black director will for most of the time have a unique vision that a white male director wouldn't be able to grasp. I guarantee you Black Panther would not look the way it is now if hey had went with a white director.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Good, I hope it does well.
I was surprised by the success of Dawn considering how depressing that movie was.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I remember that thread being based on an article that had gone viral that day, and I remember a ton of people lining up to say it didn't matter because Doctor Strange something something.
Are you trying to argue that because people had noticed it wasn't being marketed well at that point and started talking about it then, that they were somehow wrong to have done so because the film opened well and then went on to have legs like nobody has seen in almost 20 years?
I mean, okay, but in my defense, Doctor Strange something something...
QuantumZebra
Member
Yup.
Wonder Woman's success should dispel any question of whether or not its important to have a director that represents the same race/gender of the hero/protganoist they're directing. It adds a layer of honesty and realism that is rare.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Wonder Woman was marketed just fine. It's just not a strategy that people expected, given how early and heavy so many campaigns are.
Saying "it wasn't marketed well at that point" assumes some sort of optimal marketing that doesn't exist, and the movie's success tells me that what they decided clearly was the right move.
Unless you think that WB suddenly changed their marketing campaign based on viral internet articles about the lack.
Saying "it wasn't marketed well at that point" assumes some sort of optimal marketing that doesn't exist, and the movie's success tells me that what they decided clearly was the right move.
Unless you think that WB suddenly changed their marketing campaign based on viral internet articles about the lack.
bananafactory
Banned
I think the movie's success was due to excellent reviews and good word of mouth. I don't see evidence it's the result of a genius marketing campaign like Suicide Squad.
The leadup to this film was definitely more quiet than most big summer blockbusters, so I think everyone who was a bit confused by it was justified in wondering why they weren't pushing it harder. It makes even LESS sense since they should have been super confident in it, given the final result.
I mean, looking at how much money it made, I think it's hard to argue that their US marketing was a mistake. Then again, to determine that we would need actual hard data that we don't have.
About where Thurs was expected to be
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
The legs are due to word of mouth but the opening weekend was a combination of reviews and marketing. They went with a blitzkrieg approach, which is not that unusual, Fox does it all the time with their X-Men movies. I think the marketing was always on point, the trailers got a ton of buzz from the get-go.
Not really that crazy. Wonder Woman's Wed->Thur changes by week:
-1.9%
-5.1%
+4.1%
-3%
-4.6%
Week over week drop is 37% which is actually its biggest Thur-Thur drop so far. [/coldwater]
Ahem.
The time? 27th of May.
The place? GAF.
busty said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=238244733&highlight=#post238244733
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Eh. I disagreed then. Even in hindsight, following the ramp up, I'm not sure I agree now.
I don't think that has to be assumed at all. Not sure why you'd say that. Like, why would I have to assume the existence of an "optimal marketing path" to agree that what they were doing at the time seemed lacking in comparison to similar films in the genre? It's kinda like saying I couldn't say a movie is bad without assuming the idea of an "Optimal Movie Experience" to gauge it against.
I also don't think wholly unexpected legs due to phenomenal word of mouth is something you can really credit to the marketing anyway. Saying 400 mil domestic is a credit to their marketing strategy kinda argues against that word of mouth phenomena carrying a lot of the weight.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
There may well be a strategy that doesn't want to blow the movie's profits all in the marketing.
You're right though, we don't have hard data. But they did amp up the marketing in the final month, and I always took that to be for some specific reason and not the popular belief that WB was either messing up or embarrassed about the quality of the movie.
Marketing in early Summer is probably the toughest time, because you're competing for mindhshare with just about everything else in the world.
WW marketing was fine but wasn't anything special.
It wasn't on SS level where the marketing hit it out of the park and is the main reason why it opened big.
WW has benefited from being well reviewed and perhaps reaching and audience that doesn't usually go to theatres to watch superhero films. Solid opening with great legs.
It wasn't on SS level where the marketing hit it out of the park and is the main reason why it opened big.
WW has benefited from being well reviewed and perhaps reaching and audience that doesn't usually go to theatres to watch superhero films. Solid opening with great legs.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Disregarding the legs, the movie was a hit opening weekend.
And that result is what the marketing is for. Unless you think that somehow it could have been marketed to a higher opening weekend. Given that it outperformed most people's expectations, I find it hard to believe ad-bombing or more tie-ins starting earlier would have made a difference.
I'm sure there are execs looking at the result and wondering if a later start to the heavy ad rotation isn't a better strategy for the future, at least when it's a property people already know. GotG1, or Suicide Squad, that I can see needing more lead time.
I also wonder if the criticisms aren't part of the larger "movie is a mess" narrative that was floating around based on nothing. I don't recall seeing tons of Spider-Man stuff until about a month out either, but no articles about that.
Bad Moms did 184M (113M DOM) on a 20M budget.
bananafactory
Banned
Again, we're looking at it with hindsight and the fact that it DID have a 100m opening weekend.
At the time of the marketing discussion, we had no clue how good the movie or be, or how big of a financial success it would be. The observations people were making was that the marketing campaign was VERY quiet compared to a typical summer superhero flick 30 days from release, which again was accurate - at the time.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
The pacing and underlying tension were fantastic in the film. Definitely one of the best sci-fi films in a long time. But, as I stated in the digital code thread, I have serious philosophical issues with the ending of it.
Knowing full well what would happen to the daughter in years, and keeping it from her husband and that she knew all of it ahead of time, is just fucked up. Bad enough that she had to live with that secret, but then to tell him after the daughter gets sick that she knew before their daughter was ever born that it would play out this way just felt like a huge betrayal of trust. I don't blame him for being really pissed off, although the way the film presented his reaction it made him seem like the asshole.
Why
Give these fuckers a Netflix subscription so they can watch Masters of None. You know some actual good comedy.
Yeah, I don't disagree with this at all. It didn't ruin my enjoyment of the film...if anything, it made the film stick with me longer.
bananafactory
Banned
oh fuck did I just get spoiled on Arrival
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, I do. That's the basic gist of wondering where the hell the marketing was back then.
And I feel like I should clarify, because it happened in that thread gamz just reminded me of, it's not like I came up with the idea, hah. Like, it was an article that had gone viral and I thought made some pretty interesting points. The thread seemed to explode as people decided "so long as it compares decently to Doctor Strange you have no reason to complain and are just looking to call people sexist."
Which is kind of a different discussion than "Why aren't they pushing it harder right now when it seems like most their other movies have gotten that push."
The marketing campaign started to roll out a lot stronger a lot closer to release, which was good, and led to a good opening (which was above even Warners' expectations).
It's this weird thing with the Wonder Woman marketing where once it started getting a lot better, people kept whirling around with the Harrison Ford fingers wagging like "See what a fool you were for doubting Warner Bros marketing department!" and I kept wondering like - why is that the response? Their marketing getting better was the whole point of the article getting written. Nobody wanted it to be marketed poorly.
It's like "HAH! In your face I saw a commercial" like my response to that wouldn't be "Good! I'm glad THEY'RE SELLING THEIR MOVIE."
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
No argument whatsoever. I was reacting to the statement *now* that is was badly marketed, by Bobby. If I'm an exec, I want all my movies marketed that badly, if that's the result.
Now, it may have been sheer conservative response to an unknown and not wanting to blow a lot of cash on a gamble, but it worked. And the folks who look at the bottom line gotta be wondering if they can get those results with less money spent next time, too.
In short, I think there's a law of diminishing returns on marketing and WB may have accidentally found that out how much by being conservative on Wonder Woman.
bananafactory
Banned
...if you clicked the spoiler...probably?
Yeah its my bad, i only saw your post with the quote and didnt see the original saying what the movie was, thought it would be WW or Spidey. No hard feelings
1. Why haven't you watched Arrival yet?
2. Why did you highlight a spoiler for a movie you haven't seen?
3. Why haven't you watched Arrival yet?
Come on bruh
More than 80% of the OW audience was female and nearly half over age 34. It seemed to nail that demographic.
Let's see if they turn up for the sequel. I have my doubts if that demographic really enjoyed the movie.
bananafactory
Banned
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Without going into it, I don't think the marketing changed in reaction to internet articles about the marketing.
I guess that, and the fact that I don't think heavier marketing would have made for a bigger opening are the crux of our disagreements.
Marketing costs money, and there are diminishing returns.
I'm not saying WB were geniuses, my take is they were scared of a flop and did a modest/late campaign for that reason. Just that it turned out to be a good tactic, and one I think we'll see repeated.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I said "not well at that point," not "badly", which is splitting a hair, but I chose those words specifically for the sake of that follicle getting bisected because I saw this coming.
I mean, this whole line of conversation started because I'd already admitted I was wrong about what I'd thought the movie was going to do at the box-office, and what its critical reception was going to be. Then Gamz rolls in like "hey, wrong boy, while you're volunteering precious memories of fucking shit up, remember when you were wrong and you wouldn't admit it with this wrong thing about the marketing wronggggg?"
And it's like - yeah, I remember the article, I remember posting it, I remember arguing with people who seemed super-concerned with setting the bar at Doctor Strange and then calling anyone who suggested it might maybe wanna be higher than that reactionaries and outrage machines or whatever.
Do I think they could have rolled out that campaign a little earlier? Yeah. Do I think it woulda led to a higher opening weekend? Yeah.
I'm not going to give full credit to the marketing campaign for a run that is obviously being fueled largely by word of mouth. It's a summer juggernaut like we haven't seen in awhile. I'm not saying the marketing was bad. I'm saying at the time the article dropped, it seemed weird that there wasn't more of it at the time. It got better, obviously. Good enough to score an opening weekend that was above expectations.
I don't think I've ever argued that it did.
PhoncipleBone
Banned
Shit, sorry man. I almost added the title into my post in case of that, but figured the quote was enough.
But really, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't spoil most of the movie. It is hard to describe in the context of the film without going into actual major spoilers as to why it was happening.
Having said that, don't go back and re-read my post until after you see the film. The film is really great.
MugiwaraCole
Member
This guy FUCKS.
Wonder Woman was marketed less than ideally. The end result doesn't really change that. It was always supposed to open to $100M at the absolute least. Again, she's Wonder Woman. They could've smashed that with an earlier beginning to their push.
The success she's earning now with the legs the movie's shown is completely on word of mouth, anyways.
bananafactory
Banned
Earth to Echo.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They should have sent a poet
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I may have misunderstood this:
Anyway, we're arguing from different unprovable assumptions. I don't know that OW would have been enough better to justify more spent on marketing, thus I think the criticisms of the marketing a month out were overblown as a result.
Tangentally, I'd love to see a data-driven comparison of WW with any other tentpoles. I think perception drove a lot of that internet wave as it had been very popular to jump on any potential bad news for the movie. (See also: the wave of articles saying that the movie was "a mess" based on one unnamed insider.)