BertramCooper
Banned
Yeah, that's bullshit.
WB giving him permission to explore a sequel is hardly a green light.
Wkd Box Office 0719-2113 - it's SCARY at the top, turbomba, R.I.P.D. DOA R.I.P.
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Yeah, that's bullshit.
WB giving him permission to explore a sequel is hardly a green light.
Giving him the go ahead to explore sequel possibilities doesn't mean there's a sequel coming.
BattleMonkey
Member
Everyone so quick to call everything bomba.
So a movie that gets almost 180M Worldwide in just under 10 days is a bomba? Hmm.
That "sequel" news is old, it means WB just gave the go ahead to explore a sequel even before it came out, standard operating procedure as far as these movies go.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
His point is that internet backed movies equate to bombas. PoP was never backed by the internet. The nerd hype for Pacific Rim was off the charts, but surprise surprise the mainstream didn't share the sentiment.
You blew off this argument when I made it in the PR thread too.
Nikki Finke (BO writer of Deadline Hollywood) said she would temp quit box office reports because people were calling anything and everything bombas, even before their release.
If you have managed to make her sick, must be something really awful.
Come on now, gross need to be seen in relation to the budget. It's going to do 300m overseas at the very best. So it'll probably end up under 400m WW, on a 190m budget that's not very good.
Same reason Oz is probably a disappointment to Disney.
Interfectum
Member
It's also not a "bomba" if it makes profit.
Disappointing? Sure but people use bomba way too much almost as if they have no clue what they are talking about.
Midnight Moon
Banned
Poor Ryan Reynolds.
Turbo and RIPD bomber!
So is Pacific Rim really good? I want to go see it but wanted to wait until the crowds died down, hate packed theaters.
Turbo and RIPD bomber!
So is Pacific Rim really good? I want to go see it but wanted to wait until the crowds died down, hate packed theaters.
That is actually a pretty good result for a totally new franchise.
BronsonLee
Member
This is actually a pretty good comparison. People claimed PoP bombed, but by all accounts they're dead wrong. Same with Tron Legacy.
Tron might be a better comparison because of the toys and merch, too.
I blew off the argument in the other thread because you basically said that once a movie also gets mainstream backing, it no longer counts as an internet backed movie. Even if it was the most hyped thing ever by nerds. If an argument can't be falsified, it's not really much of an argument.
Was the internet a lot more hyped for Pacific Rim than the mainstream movie going audience? Definitely. Is Pacific Rim comparable to Scott Pilgrim? Not really. One movie made less than $50M worldwide, the other will make 7-8x that amount. If Pacific Rim was $50M cheaper (say $130M instead of the reported $180M), it would be a modest hit. The budget holds it back. Scott Pilgrim would have still been a bomb if you halved its budget.
Tron doesn't compare because that movie set a record for product placement. By all accounts, they paid for at least the advertising budget through product placement.
If it were cheaper sure. A lot cheaper.
BronsonLee
Member
... Wait, where? I know Bond did all that, but where in Tron? The bike? Not much in the Tron world... At least it wasn't like Alan Wake's garbage
I've got it. Pacific Rim 2: Brought To You By Taco Bell
PoP did bomb tbh, 300m on a 200m budget, there's no way they made money on it with theather grosses alone. Disney had high hope this was going to be their next Pirates (something they're desperately chasing after) and it completely failed.
Indeed but the insane budget still makes it a failure.
lol
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Ya, POP didn't make money. It was still their most successful attempt to replicate their Pirates success (which is why they should stop attempting to artificially replicate that success).
BattleMonkey
Member
But this doesn't take into consideration what was the actual marketing budget, homevideo rental/sales, merchandising tie in licenses, etc. The movie obviously didn't have a big market push behind it, this isn't like some of the other big summer films that had massive marketing going on 6+ months ago with high placement. Before it came out PR had already secured several merchandise tie ins already, Sideshow toys even got a cameo in the movie because of it. It still has to open in some big markets and it's only been out 2 weeks. Bomb, I highly doubt it.
GI Joe didn't even double it's budget WW yet still got a green lighted sequel because it did make money thanks to merchandising according to Paramount, and people were claiming that movie had bomba for not doing enough compared to it's large budget.
It's not a blockbuster, but the movie can still pull some profit in the end, and if WB wants to try again and make a franchise out of it? Who knows. I doubt they are really going to lose money on this compared to many other big budget summer films that had massive market pushes. It's going to be up to WB and whether they want to see if they can build PR into a franchise and actually push a sequel.
Can Crusher
Banned
Really, you are going to make a big deal about me forgetting about Titanic? It's the 3rd highest grossing movie of all time. There.
Circle Jerk
Member
A movie having a connection with a toy company before the movie comes out means literally nothing. Toy deals are done before the movie comes out in the case it is a hit (or because it's being positioned as one), it relly doesn't mean anything. Merchandise tie ins are just marketing and that's weird you're separating that from marketing in your post. Gi Joe got a greenlit sequel- that also had a massive budget cut and cast change that did worse than the original. There's probably more going against a Pacific Rim 2 than there is going for it.
In a year that's seen substantially worst scripts for blockbusters like Star Trek: Into Darkness and Man of Steel, and even worse scripts for crapfests like Gangster Squad and Dead Man Down? Not a chance.
BertramCooper
Banned
It seems obvious that Pacific Rim is going to have to prove its financial worth from home video sales and other forms of media before it gets a cinematic sequel.
If Guillermo is really passionate about keeping it going, I'd love to see an animated series.
If Guillermo is really passionate about keeping it going, I'd love to see an animated series.
BattleMonkey
Member
It's a boon for any movie to get a licensed toy deal, it's instant money. It's marketing? In a sense, but it's generally free marketing that also helps bring in extra money from the license deals. It's like product placement which also helps offset film budgets and is often not seen in a films final profit outside the company itself. Lot of summer films don't have the benefit of toy deals and tons of cross merchandising, that is their loss. Movie profitability is not a simple manner of how much it makes compared to it's budget. Lot of the external money comes before and after the films release and wont be known for long term.
And GI Joe 2 has made more than the first so far WW, and on a smaller budget. People said GI Joe didn't make enough, it didn't even do double it's money, but Paramount had enough tie in money coming in to get another made. 2nd Joe movie outdid the first already and 3rd movie was announced for 2015 already.
you really think Star Trek had a worse script? at least it had actual characters
Sadly if PR has to prove it's financial worth through home video and TV sales (which can take as long as a year to come in) then it's not going to get a sequel.
Studios only make sequels to bona fide hits. PR is by no means a bomb. But it's by no means a smash hit either and that's the problem.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
More people need to go see Pacific Rim dammit.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Yeah, they can befriend a kaiju and have it fight rogue jaegers
and it's pretty much a stealth revival of Godzilla TAS
Star Trek is an absolute mess story-wise, and I actually feel like the characterization took a hit from the original film, so the banter isn't nearly as fun as it was, on top of them still not really finding a good reason for Kirk and Spock to be friends, other than "that's just how they're supposed to be." They still kinda dislike each other, which makes certain moments towards the end of the film ring really hollow for me.
The best and worst thing about the characterization in Pacific Rim is that they're strictly type, so there's nothing there to surprise you, nor disappoint you in that regard.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Uh, I said no such thing. I said nerd backed movies bomb. Meaning exclusively backed by nerds. I even gave examples such as scott pilgrim. SP was never backed by the mainstream. It was you that brought up movies like WWZ, Inception and District 9; all movies with great mainstream hype before release. In fact, in WWZ's case it was nerds who were insisting it was going to be a bomb!
Scott Pilgrim's budget was far less than Pacific Rim's. Not seeing why a lower budgeted movie pulling in less matters. Both movies were massively hyped on the internet and pretty much nowhere else, both movies did poorly at the BO. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.
G.I. Joe: Rise of the Cobra
Domestic: $150,201,498
Foreign: $152,267,519
Worldwide: $302,469,017
G.I. Joe Retaliation
Domestic: $122,523,060
Foreign: $249,400,000
Worldwide: $371,923,060
Close to $100M more earned overseas more than offsets the $28M domestic drop for Retaliation. Especially with the lower budget.
The problem with Pacific Rim is that it was already operating with a cheap cast and (from the sounds of it) a heavily discounted SFX contract. They may have difficulties cutting costs in ways that won't be noticeable on screen, even if there was interest in a sequel.
And yet Oz is going forward with sequels, box office is only part of the picture. It "should" have done better but if the licensing and home video are strong enough to dismiss a lower budget sequel solely because the box office in the US was not strong is beyond stupid.
kswinston said:
Its called focus on 1 Jaegar and 1 Kaiju instead of 8-9 Kaiju and 5-7 Jaegars, not a hard concept for them to follow and will extremely cut down the budget
x Power Pad Death Stomp x
Member
Dammit. My daughter and I saw Pacific Rim last night and we both loved it. Sucks that there won't be a sequel.
It'll prob end up being one of those movies that has 800 DVD releases and toys over the course of years, like Army of Darkness/Evil Dead. I think AOD made $3.75 at the box office but all these years later its still making $.
It'll prob end up being one of those movies that has 800 DVD releases and toys over the course of years, like Army of Darkness/Evil Dead. I think AOD made $3.75 at the box office but all these years later its still making $.
The reason it is not worth discussing since there aren't enough nerds out there to float anything past $20-30M without any mainstream interest. Take comic book films. If every single person who currently reads superhero comics went to see Green Lantern twice, that's maybe $10M in ticket sales. The US superhero market has 300-500k total readers. No one is making films exclusively for them. Every movie that has more than a micro-budget needs mainstream viewers. At best, nerd hype can get others interested through added exposure, which is why so many movie announcements and promotions go through Comic Con. Sometimes it works, other times it fails miserably. Pointing out the failures after the fact is not very useful unless it can be used to predict future performances. Outside of the last couple of weeks before a film is released, you can't. Films gather last minute hype all the time. Pacific Rim didn't.
A $60M film making $48M worldwide is a much bigger disaster (relatively) than a $180M film making $350M worldwide.
Futhermore one is a original IP while the other is an adaptation. So Pacific Rim doing these numbers ten days in is actually quite good.
Ducati, Pepsi, Coors and Nokia off the top of my head.
This is why bomba needs to stop being thrown around. Unless a film absolutely tanks it's opening and doesn't have good word of mouth. It's quite possible for a film to simply do well and then make even more money when it comes out on dvd/blu-ray, streaming services and gets played on cable and pay per view. If technology or assets created can be reused again why not do a sequel. The investment has already been made and you can lower the budget the second time around. Not everyone wants to go to movie theaters and would rather wait and watch movies in their own home where they're far more comfortable these days.
BronsonLee
Member
Ahhh, that makes sense... The bike, I guess the drinks in the fridge, and that stupid phone he used
I won't get a chance to watch PR until next week at the earliest so I can't comment but I do know EXACTLY how you feel.
I thought Star Trek Into Darkness was utter nonsense from start to finish. A nonsensical plot that didn't seem to know where it was going. Nonsensical character decisions/motivations. The whole endeavour felt phoned in and half arsed.
But I was stunned by how many people on GAF loved it. It was like they were talking about a totally different film from the one I sat through. It's as if everyone was in the ploy of Paramount or blindly praising anything Abrams or the Trek franchise put before them.
Eh. Each to their own I suppose.
STID's script got a lot of heat in that thread, just as the first Star Trek film got the "Deus Ex Machina the Film" jokes.
Discotheque
Banned
Eh movie wasn't very good. Benedict Cumberbatch has to carry it on his back, and he almost succeeds but I think the script really holds it back.
A strange crusade?! I told everyone the film would be garbage. And lo and behold it was garbage.
I'm just a lone wolf trying to tell it like it is. So you and yours can enjoy better films son.
Long story short I'm exactly like Jon Snow from Game Of Thrones manning the wall all by myself.
*strikes heroic pose*
...., in saying I wonder how people will feel about Abrams when he totally shits the bed with the next Star Wars film. Hmmmm.
Star Trek Into Darkness was exactly like Star Trek 1
Hot Garbage script with ass plotting, but tight direction and charismatic performances holding the whole thing together.
Hot Garbage script with ass plotting, but tight direction and charismatic performances holding the whole thing together.
It is very wierd/hypocritical. Almost anything on screen that isn't a giant robot is utterly abhorrent. There's no ignoring how bad the acting, plotting and writing is. Mickey Mouse bullshit from start to finish.
BattleMonkey
Member
Pass on what? People liking it? How dare they
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