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Wkd Box Office 12•18-20•15 - Force Awakens does good... gOOOood, opens w/ $248m

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Based on the fact that my local theater looked like Friday of an Avengers opening on Sunday at 4pm I'm guessing their estimate is going to be low for Sunday.

I saw it again at 10 am this morning thinking it'd be pretty dead, but every seat was filled. I definitely think the Sunday estimate will be low - probably a lot of people decided to wait until today to skip the madness of Thur/Fri/Sat
 
That joke was lost on me (just laughed because it seemed like such a mean burn and Alvin's expression when he said it) but when my roommate explained it to me I lost my mind. What kind of parent is Dave, letting Alvin watch a movie like that. O:

Poor Dave was probably trying to punish the obnoxious furball, but apparently even Pink Flamingos can't slow him down.
 

kswiston

Member
I was hosting a family dinner today so I basically missed out on all of the fun.

A couple comments:

- Given the Saturday figure for TFA, Disney is probably lowballing Sunday. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see the actuals over $240M.

- Normally, the near simultaneous WW launch (basically only missing China) coming in at less than $300M would mean that $1B+ internationally was in doubt. I think that the holidays will help some, but it will need good legs (or a great Chinese gross) to beat Furious 7 overseas.
 

Nibel

Member
You didn't give him a hand?

giphy6pqu7b.gif
 

Branduil

Member
With Christmas next Friday, I have to imagine the 2nd weekend record will be destroyed as well. And likely the 3rd thanks to New Year's.
 

Syf

Banned
I was hosting a family dinner today so I basically missed out on all of the fun.

A couple comments:

- Given the Saturday figure for TFA, Disney is probably lowballing Sunday. I wouldn't be all that surprised to see the actuals over $240M.

- Normally, the near simultaneous WW launch (basically only missing China) coming in at less than $300M would mean that $1B+ internationally was in doubt. I think that the holidays will help some, but it will need good legs (or a great Chinese gross) to beat Furious 7 overseas.
That Rth just posted that Sunday actual will be well over $50M. So yeah $240M or higher looks certain.
 
With Christmas next Friday, I have to imagine the 2nd weekend record will be destroyed as well. And likely the 3rd thanks to New Year's.

Your typical blockbuster 50% drop gives them the second weekend record by $10 million. What I'm interested in is the non-holiday weekday records.
 

kswiston

Member
Your typical blockbuster 50% drop gives them the second weekend record by $10 million. What I'm interested in is the non-holiday weekday records.

50% is not a typical blockbuster drop. Second week drops for blockbusters are typically in the high 50s to low 60s.

Next weekend will be interesting. TFA actually made less than The Avengers or Jurassic World during the weekend proper, even if we are expecting a $4-5M boost to that estimated Sunday number.

Christmas will be a lot stronger than a normal Friday, but I don't know if we'll get a sub-50% drop. It will need a 35% drop or better on this weekend's total minus previews. Jurassic World dropped 44% from the weekend minus previews number.
 
Do we have an okay conception of what the word-of-mouth is like yet? I know it's really early but almost ALL the conversations I've had about this movie are with other superfans so I don't know that I have a great read on how it's playing for regular viewers.
 

Cptkrush

Member
Do we have an okay conception of what the word-of-mouth is like yet? I know it's really early but almost ALL the conversations I've had about this movie are with other superfans so I don't know that I have a great read on how it's playing for regular viewers.

Everyone I work with that's seen it has been raving about it. Ranging from Star Wars fans to casual viewers to never seen befores.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Do we have an okay conception of what the word-of-mouth is like yet? I know it's really early but almost ALL the conversations I've had about this movie are with other superfans so I don't know that I have a great read on how it's playing for regular viewers.
The super fans like to nitpick it to hell and back but every super fan I know has seen it at least twice or plans to. So their word of mouth is meaningless.

The regular folk I know seem to love the hell out it.
 

jtb

Banned
Christmas falls on a Friday this year, I think (am I counting right?). Should keep Star Wars' legs pretty strong. could we see a sub-50% drop?
 

Branduil

Member
50% is not a typical blockbuster drop. Second week drops for blockbusters are typically in the high 50s to low 60s.

Next weekend will be interesting. TFA actually made less than The Avengers or Jurassic World during the weekend proper, even if we are expecting a $4-5M boost to that estimated Sunday number.

Christmas will be a lot stronger than a normal Friday, but I don't know if we'll get a sub-50% drop. It will need a 35% drop or better on this weekend's total minus previews. Jurassic World dropped 44% from the weekend minus previews number.

Is there any reason to discount the preview numbers when calculating the drop?
 

FTF

Member
Did you tell them it wasn't opening in China ;-) lol

Also, Disney is really lowballing that Sun #…it's not dropping 29% today. I'm saying it drops closer to 20% with actuals and a $245m ow.

It's happening...
 

kswiston

Member
Is there any reason to discount the preview numbers when calculating the drop?

Well, second weekend doesn't get to count half of Thursday's gross. Previews were 24% of the estimated weekend gross, which is way higher than the previews for pretty much everything outside of Harry Potter (which had a 72% drop in its second frame).

Do we have an okay conception of what the word-of-mouth is like yet? I know it's really early but almost ALL the conversations I've had about this movie are with other superfans so I don't know that I have a great read on how it's playing for regular viewers.

I'm too old to know anyone going to this Star Wars who hasn't at least liked the original trilogy, so no real unbiased anecdotes from me. My group wasn't super fans, but they all enjoyed the film. I think I was the most luke warm on it out of my 8 people and even I'd give it a solid B+ (I think I have AoU a C+ and Jurassic World a D or D+ in your summer report card).
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Well, second weekend doesn't get to count half of Thursday's gross. Previews were 24% of the estimated weekend gross, which is way higher than the previews for pretty much everything outside of Harry Potter (which had a 72% drop in its second frame).

I'm expecting TFA to do 100 million on its second weekend. Somewhere around 60 % drop. A 3x multiplier would put it at 1.5 billion lifetime - Avatar and Titanic aren't going to be touched by the force.
 
Can this beat Titanic or even avengers 1 or even Jurassic World(all time)? will be interesting to see. Avatar will be hard to top.
 

kswiston

Member
Is this the biggest opening ever?

Biggest domestic opening of all time. Not the biggest overseas opening of all time. Maybe the biggest worldwide opening of all time (right now no, but the Actuals could go up enough to push it over Jurassic World's $525M).

Can this beat Titanic or even avengers 1 or even Jurassic World(all time)? will be interesting to see. Avatar will be hard to top.

Domestic, probably yes. Worldwide, it will likely top Jurassic World, but Titanic isn't looking good.
 

FTF

Member
Can this beat Titanic or even avengers 1 or even Jurassic World(all time)? will be interesting to see. Avatar will be hard to top.

Domestic it will beat all of them, maybe even Avatar. Worldwide it will beat JW for #3, $2.2b for #2 over Titanic will be tough, but doable.
 
Do we have an okay conception of what the word-of-mouth is like yet? I know it's really early but almost ALL the conversations I've had about this movie are with other superfans so I don't know that I have a great read on how it's playing for regular viewers.

I have literally not talked to a single person who didn't like it. Out of the 15ish friends/family that have seen it I'd say only three of them were hardcore fans. My brother would be the hardest-of-core who is seeing it for a third time as I type this. He liked it the first time, loved it the second, we'll see how he feels after a third. My sister would be the furthest from a fan of the group. She doesn't give a fuck about Star Wars, just went with us for something to do opening night. And she walked out loving it as well.
 
Domestic it will beat all of them, maybe even Avatar.

Avatar is 760 mil domestic, right?

What? You are quite disconnected from real life if you believe that.

What about Slayven's post is unrealistic?

Granted, new Star Wars fans don't automatically become "nerds" because they're Star Wars fans. Star Wars isn't even really nerdy (nothing that makes this much money on a regular basis could be so niche as to be "nerdy" really).

But the idea that a greatest hits mixtape of the Original Trilogy aimed at viewers who haven't grown up on that shit already could translate to a sizable number of new fans isn't out of bounds at all.
 

HarryKS

Member
Avatar is 760 mil domestic, right?



What about Slayven's post is unrealistic?

Granted, new Star Wars fans don't automatically become "nerds" because they're Star Wars fans. Star Wars isn't even really nerdy (nothing that makes this much money on a regular basis could be so niche as to be "nerdy" really).

But the idea that a greatest hits mixtape of the Original Trilogy aimed at viewers who haven't grown up on that shit already could translate to a sizable number of new fans isn't out of bounds at all.

There are plenty of black people and women who like Star Wars already. That's the part that doesn't make sense. Your personal belief does not make it a fact of life. Star Wars has never been a divisive franchise in terms of sex and ethnicity.
 
Gotta have more than a 3x multiplier at 245 mil OW.

There are plenty of black people and women who like Star Wars already. That's the part that doesn't make sense. Your personal belief does not make it a fact of life. Star Wars has never been a divisive franchise in terms of sex and ethnicity.

That part makes perfect sense, what are you talking about. Your third sentence seems like it should be directed inward, not outward. Star Wars has always been very populist, but inclusive for 1977-1983 isn't the same as inclusive for 2015, and the difference between those two is a good example of slow progression forward. The films themselves aren't divisive, really. The fanbase surrounding it can very much be, though. Unwelcoming, too. It's obvious that there are women and minorities who enjoy the films. It's also obvious there could be a lot more.

This film can change that.
 

kswiston

Member
Domestic it will beat all of them, maybe even Avatar. Worldwide it will beat JW for #3, $2.2b for #2 over Titanic will be tough, but doable.

I don't see Star Wars hitting $2.2B. Even assuming the domestic record, that's probably calling for $1.4B overseas on a start that was 11% under Deathly Hallows Part 2 (which grossed $900M outside of China). Figure $200M for China, and you are calling for a 4.3x opening weekend multiplier overseas.
 
I'm expecting TFA to do 100 million on its second weekend. Somewhere around 60 % drop. A 3x multiplier would put it at 1.5 billion lifetime - Avatar and Titanic aren't going to be touched by the force.
Well for some reason you give it a huge second week drop despite it being holiday season. You are also saying it will have pretty pathetic legs, especially for a December film. You're also discounting China completely.

But yes, in that scenario it won't come close to Titanic or Avatar.
 

kswiston

Member
You are also saying it will have pretty pathetic legs, especially for a December film.

His WW total is too low, but in what world is a 3x multiplier for a modern megablockbuster poor legs? Avengers barely crossed that mark. Jurassic world was 3.1x opening weekend. Both had 1/3 the previews numbers.

I think we need to give up on the use of December films legs when Star Wars didn't open at all like a December film. Maybe Star Wars will go on to do 3.5x this weekend's take, but I wouldn't say its likely just because a bunch of films with a quarter the opening weekend and a tenth the preview number averaged that.
 

HarryKS

Member
Gotta have more than a 3x multiplier at 245 mil OW.



That part makes perfect sense, what are you talking about. Your third sentence seems like it should be directed inward, not outward. Star Wars has always been very populist, but inclusive for 1977-1983 isn't the same as inclusive for 2015, and the difference between those two is a good example of slow progression forward. The films themselves aren't divisive, really. The fanbase surrounding it can very much be, though. Unwelcoming, too. It's obvious that there are women and minorities who enjoy the films. It's also obvious there could be a lot more.

This film can change that.

I don't know how you're reading this. You're actually agreeing with what I said and saying the opposite as well.

He said women and black peeps will like it this time. I said they always liked it and it shows in the Star Wars community. The fandom is very diverse. Don't know how much more diverse it can get since it's already far ahead of anything in terms of representation within the community.
 
His WW total is too low, but in what world is a 3x multiplier for a modern megablockbuster poor legs? Avengers barely crossed that mark. Jurassic world was 3.1x opening weekend. Both had 1/3 the previews numbers.

I think we need to give up on the use of December films legs when Star Wars didn't open at all like a December film. Maybe Star Wars will go on to do 3.5x this weekend's take, but I wouldn't say its likely just because a bunch of films with a quarter the opening weekend and a tenth the preview number averaged that.
People saying it opened like a summer blockbuster so now the December thing is null and void is wrong in my opinion.

It opened huge, of course, it would of done that no matter when you released it. But I don't see how that retroactively turns it into a summer movie. It's still December, people are on vacation, people are with families looking for something to do, and there aren't a lot of other movies vying for attention right now.

Why should we assume that TFA won't get the usual December boost in its multiplier?
 

wachie

Member
You know the right answer could be? It could be neither be a summer or December movie, this is uncharted territory.
 
He said women and black peeps will like it this time. I said they always liked it and it shows in the Star Wars community..

No. It doesn't really show in the Star Wars community. Here's where you're disconnecting: The presence of a tiny minority isn't the same as proper representation. When Slay says "women and black peeps will like it this time" he means "way more than the smallish number that can currently look past the fact they really don't have anyone that looks like them speaking a lot of lines in the already existing films."

He's not wrong.

To use a political comparison, there are Black and woman Republicans, too. Would you suggest that party is necessarily welcoming to those demographics in general, though?

Star Wars isn't as divisive and off-putting as the Republican party can be, of course. And the series isn't actively trying to further negative stereotypes or exclude people. But there's a very obvious difference between what the previous six movies looked like, and how this one is put together. And trying to say otherwise seems weird, especially if the whole of your reasoning isn't much more than "but we've already got black friends!"
 

Boke1879

Member
The super fans like to nitpick it to hell and back but every super fan I know has seen it at least twice or plans to. So their word of mouth is meaningless.

The regular folk I know seem to love the hell out it.

I've seen it twice and expect to see it again next Saturday. But yea common consensus at least from what i've heard in seen around me is people love the hell out of this movie.
 

kswiston

Member
I don't know how you're reading this. You're actually agreeing with what I said and saying the opposite as well.

He said women and black peeps will like it this time. I said they always liked it and it shows in the Star Wars community. The fandom is very diverse. Don't know how much more diverse it can get since it's already far ahead of anything in terms of representation within the community.

Women, Hispanic, and Black audiences were under-represented:

(From Hollywood Reporter) Caucasians made up 62 percent of ticket buyers, followed by Hispanics (15 percent), African-Americans (10 percent), Asians (7 percent) and Native American and other (7 percent), according to PostTrak.

Especially when you consider that Hispanic and Black audiences spend more theatre dollars per capita than White audiences. Definitely room for Star Wars to improve.

People saying it opened like a summer blockbuster so now the December thing is null and void is wrong in my opinion.

It opened huge, of course, it would of done that no matter when you released it. But I don't see how that retroactively turns it into a summer movie. It's still December, people are on vacation, people are with families looking for something to do, and there aren't a lot of other movies vying for attention right now.

Why should we assume that TFA won't get the usual December boost in its multiplier?

A) The $57M in previews is not just free cash. That will lead to a bigger than typical drop next week, and will depress the weekend multiplier.

B) Bigger films tend to be frontloaded. We've had 35 films that have opened to $100M during their first weekend (counting Iron Man whose Thursday previews would have been lumped into the weekend gross by current accounting). The only one of those to have a 4x OW multiplier was Shrek 2 over a decade ago. Drop that 3.5x opening weekend multiplier and you add Toy Story 3 to the list. Technically Revenge of the Sith and Revenge of the Fallen make the list if you only look at their first Fri-Sun, but Sith made $124M in its first 3 days (3.06x multiplier based on that) and Transformers made $128M in its first 3 days (3.13x multiplier).

If you go look at films opening in the $40-75M range, you start to see quite a few with >3.5x OW multipliers. Not just animated films either.

C) December is data poor for huge blockbusters. Most of the bigger films were those $40-75M openers. Until this weekend, Avatar has been the only exceptionally large film (say big enough to crack the domestic top 25) out of December in over a decade. Star Wars is not going to play like Avatar.
 
Women, Hispanic, and Black audiences were under-represented:

(From Hollywood Reporter) Caucasians made up 62 percent of ticket buyers, followed by Hispanics (15 percent), African-Americans (10 percent), Asians (7 percent) and Native American and other (7 percent), according to PostTrak.

Especially when you consider that Hispanic and Black audiences spend more theatre dollars per capita than White audiences. Definitely room for Star Wars to improve.



A) The $57M in previews is not just free cash. That will lead to a bigger than typical drop next week, and will depress the weekend multiplier.

B) Bigger films tend to be frontloaded. We've had 35 films that have opened to $100M during their first weekend (counting Iron Man whose Thursday previews would have been lumped into the weekend gross by current accounting). The only one of those to have a 4x OW multiplier was Shrek 2 over a decade ago. Drop that 3.5x opening weekend multiplier and you add Toy Story 3 to the list. Technically Revenge of the Sith and Revenge of the Fallen make the list if you only look at their first Fri-Sun, but Sith made $124M in its first 3 days (3.06x multiplier based on that) and Transformers made $128M in its first 3 days (3.13x multiplier).

If you go look at films opening in the $40-75M range, you start to see quite a few with >3.5x OW multipliers. Not just animated films either.

C) December is data poor for huge blockbusters. Most of the bigger films were those $40-75M openers. Until this weekend, Avatar has been the only exceptionally large film (say big enough to crack the domestic top 25) out of December in over a decade. Star Wars is not going to play like Avatar.
I mean. You obviously know more about this than I do.

But if it made about $500 million this weekend, so a 3x puts it at $1.5 billion? I'll take the over on that bet all day.
 

3N16MA

Banned
Still holding onto my prediction of 810M domestic (from a 228M OW). My 1.4B OS prediction was already pushing and as kswiston pointed out it's going to be difficult to surpass Titanic.

The next few weeks should be interesting.
 

kswiston

Member
I mean. You obviously know more about this than I do.

But if it made about $500 million this weekend, so a 3x puts it at $1.5 billion? I'll take the over on that bet all day.

Oh, let's be clear that I am talking domestic gross only. Star Wars will make at least $1.75B Worldwide. Probably closer to (and perhaps over) $2B.
 
Oh, let's be clear that I am talking domestic gross only. Star Wars will make at least $1.75M Worldwide. Probably closer to (and perhaps over) $2B.
Alright, so domestic we are looking at approximately $750 million if it got a 3x....


Yea, that might be a stretch....

Edit: still wouldn't shock me if it beat Avatar domestically though.
 
Oh, let's be clear that I am talking domestic gross only. Star Wars will make at least $1.75M Worldwide.

It made that in October.

I'm just messing with you.

Alright, so domestic we are looking at approximately $750 million if it got a 3x....


Yea, that might be a stretch....

Edit: still wouldn't shock me if it beat Avatar domestically though.

Avatar is only 10 million above that number. If Christmas does as well as some of the more optimistic people think it will, I can see it getting there.

Also, it looks like the Christmas day record is $24.6 million for Sherlock Holmes (which opened that day), followed by Avatar at $23. Especially since Christmas is on a Friday, that's another record that should fall pretty handily.
 

jman2050

Member
C) December is data poor for huge blockbusters. Most of the bigger films were those $40-75M openers. Until this weekend, Avatar has been the only exceptionally large film (say big enough to crack the domestic top 25) out of December in over a decade. Star Wars is not going to play like Avatar.

December being data poor seems like a good reason to consider a film like this as uncharted territory. I mean, it could end up performing like any typical blockbuster and all this hoopla will be for nothing but it doesn't follow that that's the type of thing we should necessarily expect with certainty.

Not that in a million years it's going to hold even close to what Avatar did, that shit was just bonkers.
 

kswiston

Member
It made that in October.

I'm just messing with you.

Whoops :p


I'll put my edit in here since the thread is moving along now.

If you take JW's international opening, Subtract China and throw in Japan, you basically have something comparable to Star Wars launch in terms of number of territories covered. Without China (and with Japan), JW would have made $225-230M internationally in its opening weekend. It made $787M outside of China internationally. That's a 3.4x OW multiplier overseas on the low end with no holiday boosting.

Star Wars would made about $950M with the same legs overseas (minus China). I have no idea how well the film will do in China. South Korea and Hong Kong weren't really that big into the film, but the same was true there for Furious 7. We'll see in 3 weeks.
 
B) Bigger films tend to be frontloaded. We've had 35 films that have opened to $100M during their first weekend (counting Iron Man whose Thursday previews would have been lumped into the weekend gross by current accounting). The only one of those to have a 4x OW multiplier was Shrek 2 over a decade ago. Drop that 3.5x opening weekend multiplier and you add Toy Story 3 to the list. Technically Revenge of the Sith and Revenge of the Fallen make the list if you only look at their first Fri-Sun, but Sith made $124M in its first 3 days (3.06x multiplier based on that) and Transformers made $128M in its first 3 days (3.13x multiplier).

If you go look at films opening in the $40-75M range, you start to see quite a few with >3.5x OW multipliers. Not just animated films either.

C) December is data poor for huge blockbusters. Most of the bigger films were those $40-75M openers. Until this weekend, Avatar has been the only exceptionally large film (say big enough to crack the domestic top 25) out of December in over a decade. Star Wars is not going to play like Avatar.

I think C) kind of obfuscates B). All of the $100 million examples are summer movies. So I do think it is a fair point to say that this is uncharted territory a bit. There really is no data for this situation.

I'm not saying that Winter turns it from 3x multiplier to 4x multiplier but I think it still ends up being a signficant boost regardless. MI: Rogue Nation had great legs for a summer film (3.51x) but still couldn't overcome Ghost Protocol in gross despite opening much higher.

Further this feels like the lightest Christmas movie season in a while- it seems like everyone cleared out when Star Wars announced. There are usually quite a few high profile films opening in this period and this year there really isn't anything even on the level of Unbroken or The Imitation Game. Feels like Star Wars is likely to end up being a default choice for a lot of people.
 
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