Support NeoGAF

[Shadowhelper]

He's a top 10 heavy weight.

By every fair metric he's top 10.

Both in achievement and in how he'd fare against other HWs historically.

Against the other greats, he's simply too big. Disciplined technique. His money shot, extremely straight. And if you came inside he can tie and tire you out easily.

 

[x Power Pad Death Stomp x]

He not a top 10 all time. He's just not.

Joe Lewis
Muhammad Ali
Jack Johnson
George Foreman
Larry Holmes
Lennox Lewis
Joe Frazier
Evander Holyfield
Jack Dempsey
Tyson/Marciano/Vitali pick one

.

 

[lightskintwin]

He's a top 10 heavy weight.

By every fair metric he's top 10.

Both in achievement and in how he'd fare against other HWs historically.

Against the other greats, he's simply too big. Disciplined technique. His money shot, extremely straight. And if you came inside he can tie and tire you out easily.

LOL @ every fair metric.

You mean back when he was getting knocked out by Ross Purity in his 25th fight? or when he got knocked out by Corrie Sanders in his 42nd fight? or when he was knocking himself out against Lamon Brewster in his 45th fight? Or when he was going life and death and getting his ass knocked down 4 times by the much smaller and technically crude Samuel Peter in his 48th fight? Or when he was scared to throw a right hand and literally only jabbed for the first 6 rounds against the smaller, non threatening Sultan Imbragimov in his 53rd fight?

But somehow the greats couldn't touch him?

That's how nonsense your argument is.

 

[ApharmdX]

The last of disciple of Manny Steward, Wlad (imo) cements his legacy as a top 10 HW of all time.

... that is way too high. Hell, Wladimir isn't even the best Klitschko.

 

[Violet_0]

Tyson would have been hugged to death.

fify

 

[Moze]

This is a terrible excuse. There are plenty of dominant champions in less talented, weak divisions but nobody questions them because they decimate their opponents like they're supposed to do.

People judge Wladimir on how he looked in his fights against these weaker opponents. Wladimir is in the unique position of typically having almost every physical and skill advantage over most of his opponents by being the bigger, stronger, faster, harder puncher, and more technically skilled fighter and yet he's going life and death with fighters like the smaller, crude Samuel Peter or scared to through a right hand against the smaller, weaker, non threatening Sultan Imbragimov.

For the record, I like Wladimir and believe he was a good ambassador for the sport and respect putting together a Hall of Fame career despite his glass jaw being exposed.

However you have to put things in perspective and judge them accordingly, and Wladimir is the reason why Wladimir isn't as respected as his record suggests he should, and no one else.

Who are these champions you speak of? It's also worth noting that dominating in the heavyweight division is a different thing altogether, not only because of how much power each fighter naturally possess, but because of how hard the weight is on the body during training camp and such.


Wlad's reluctance to release his hands when he needs to is for sure a big issue with his style, as is the constant clinching. He done it in the Fury fight and he done it to a lesser extent in the Joshua fight. He could have got Joshua out in the 6th round if he wasn't so cautious of his own weak chin. As far as Samuel Peter, you are going back years for that first fight. It was a very different time for Wlad.


People claiming Wlad would be easy work for boxers of the 90s are delusional. He obviously wouldn't have dominated as much as he did if he was fighting during the 90s, but he would have been a top level fighter in the 90s and would have been trading wins/losses with all of the big heavyweights. Wlad is on par with any heavyweight from the 90s.

You also need to give respect for the fact he never declined during the end of his career. He never retired because he is washed up, he retired because he just felt it was time. I still consider him to be one of the best heavyweights right now, and think he could easily compete in the division for a few more years. That ain't easy for any boxer at that age. Especially not a heavyweight.

I think time will be kind on Wlad's legacy. That will be especially true if Joshua goes on to dominate the division for many years.

 

[lightskintwin]

Who are these champions you speak of? It's also worth noting that dominating in the heavyweight division is a different thing altogether, not only because of how much power each fighter naturally possess, but because of how hard the weight is on the body during training camp and such.


Wlad's reluctance to release his hands when he needs to is for sure a big issue with his style, as is the constant clinching. He done it in the Fury fight and he done it to a lesser extent in the Joshua fight. He could have got Joshua out in the 6th round if he wasn't so cautious of his own weak chin. As far as Samuel Peter, you are going back years for that first fight. It was a very different time for Wlad.


People claiming Wlad would be easy work for boxers of the 90s are delusional. He obviously wouldn't have dominated as much as he did if he was fighting during the 90s, but he would have been a top level fighter in the 90s and would have been trading wins/losses with all of the big heavyweights.

You also need to give respect for the fact he never declined during the end of his career. He never retired because he is washed up, he retired because he just felt it was time. I still consider him to be one of the best heavyweights right now, and think he could easily compete in the division for a few more years. That ain't easy for any boxer at that age. Especially not a heavyweight.

I think time will be kind on Wlad's legacy. That will be especially true if Joshua goes on to dominate the division for many years.

The heavyweight division SUCKS relative to past Heavyweight divisions. I'm judging Wladimir on that and how he performed during that time. It'd be different if he decimated his opponents like Gennady Golovkin has done for the most part in a weak middleweight divison.

It's like you're not putting anything in context and simply judging everything on a surface level.

Name me a signature win? I bet I can name you several of his signature losses including his last one.

 

[Tom_Cody]

My favorite picture from his career:

 

[FonkyByNature]

Love the Klitschko brothers. Vitali is a monster that didn't reach his full potential imo. That fight against Lewis was not fair and Lewis never wanted a rematch, probably got a taste of Klitschko's power.

Anyway, great for Wladimir. It was due to happen, the guy fought for too long.

One of the greatest for sure !

 

[lightskintwin]

Love the Klitschko brothers. Vitali is a monster that didn't reach his full potential imo. That fight against Lewis was not fair and Lewis never wanted a rematch, probably got a taste of Klitschko's power.

Anyway, great for Wladimir. It was due to happen, the guy fought for too long.

One of the greatest for sure !

An older, past his prime, out of shape Lewis still beat a prime Vitali Klistchko

DEAL WITH IT.

Regardless, I think that loss still enhanced Vitali's legacy more than any win enhanced Wladimir's tbh.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

He is the opposite of what you thought he was. He is a ridiculously respectful man who rarely even has anything bad to say about his opponents. Idiots call him boring for a reason.

Because despite his accomplishments his fights, especially later in his career, were boring as fuck.

That's part of his legacy. He reigned over one of the more forgettable eras in heavyweight boxing.

 

[mnannola]

Don't think he is a top 10 fighter. What is his best win? Hell at least Larry Holmes beat a (washed up) Ali and Ken Norton. Larry Holmes's career is probably the best comparison to Wlad's, but I think Larry had better wins.

 

[Moze]

The heavyweight division SUCKS relative to past Heavyweight divisions. I'm judging Wladimir on that and how he performed during that time. It'd be different if he decimated his opponents like Gennady Golovkin has done for the most part in a weak middleweight divison.

It's like you're not putting anything in context and simply judging everything on a surface level.

Name me a signature win? I bet I can name you several of his signature losses including his last one.

GGG got exposed immediately as soon as he stepped up his opposition and arguably lost the fight. I certainly had Jacobs winning that fight. Not a good comparison to make. GGG was fighting almost nothing but sub par opponents and people out of their weight class before he stepped up and got exposed. You can't compare Golovkin's pre Jacobs' opponents to people like David Haye, Povetkin and Pulev. There is no comparison here.

You seem to be cherry picking some random fights and judging his whole career off of them. Wlad for sure had a rough start and didn't become a force in the division until he sorted his defence out. We know he got knocked around during the early to middle parts of his career. It's how he recovered from that and became the force he did that is remarkable.

I am not really sure what you mean by signature win? Getting shook by Pulev and then proceeding to KO him almost immediately was great stuff.

 

[HarryKS]

Just wanted to point out that the woman beater thing is probably a mutation of the rumour that Hayden Panettierre is into brutal bdsm/submission.

From that secret Hollywood blog.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

One of my all time favorite boxers. Sad to see him go. Was really hoping that rematch was going to happen.

 

[Budi]

He is the opposite of what you thought he was. He is a ridiculously respectful man who rarely even has anything bad to say about his opponents. Idiots call him boring for a reason.

I don't follow boxing, but I've seen some of his interviews and based on those I have to agree! Why is his name written with W instead of V in "english" though?

 

[lightskintwin]

I don't follow boxing, but I've seen some of his interviews and based on those I have to agree! Why is his name written with W instead of V in "english" though?

Anybody who dislikes Wladimir as a person has problems. Him and his brother were always great ambassadors for the sport.

 

[JasonUresti]

Tyson marks, please list all the great fighters Tyson beat.

It's easy to look impressive beating up the bums that fill Tyson's resume. Truth is even in his supposed prime Tyson struggled against even the mediocre/decent guys he faced.

Either brother would have bullied and brutalized Mike.

 

[lightskintwin]

Tyson marks, please list all the great fighters Tyson beat.

It's easy to look impressive beating up the bums that fill Tyson's resume. Truth is even in his supposed prime Tyson struggled against even the mediocre/decent guys he faced.

Either brother would have bullied and brutalized Mike.

Vitali probably, Wladimir I'm not so sure.

 

[Budi]

Anybody who dislikes Wladimir as a person has problems. Him and his brother were always great ambassadors for the sport.

Absolutely, even as a professional he seems to be a fighter and not a circus clown like some of these fellas. https://youtu.be/d72Ah2r3ziA?t=84 Anyone calling out such behaviour in a business full of toxic masculinity deserves respect.