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[Flib]

Anyone here tanking on a DK? I've been trying and now I'll sound like a total noob cause I have questions.

Is the priority correct? Found this on the forums: BB -> diseases up -> RS for threat or DS to heal + apply shield (and threat) -> HS -> HoW/DRW?

I really can't find the rhythm with how the runes fill up right now (10s between each one is kinda slow) especially with Runic Empowerment being random as it is. I've spent a couple hours just trying to get it down at the dummy but it still feels a bit weird. So, if RE procs a blood rune, obviously I can spend it on BB or HS, but if it refreshes a death rune, won't I still have to wait for another to DS anyway? I suppose I can blood tap for a death rune and use it. What about Festering Strike if I have a blood and death rune up? I've heard it causes alot of threat, or is that wrong?

I haven't done many dungeons yet, but I suppose having RS available might help as the proper RP dump? It's still a bit annoying not being able to RS on demand yet in BP. I'm just curious also if that's the reason DK threat might not be so high (in raids), is it because they can't really RS to dump RP yet?

On the other hand, paladin tanking (my main) is fun, so is the new druid stuff with Pulverize and everything. I sort of enjoy not having to continuously press Maul like a madman, or the other ONAs in fact.

I'm still not great/experienced with my dk tank post 4.01, but (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong), you shouldn't focus as much on diseases. After BB'ing, I'd personally DS/HS for high initial threat. The issue is that they took the threat modifier away from IT, and I believe blood gets most of their threat from physical damage anyway. I've heard one disease is the way to go, though I'm unsure.

 

[Acidote]

I was in Aszhara working on my Loremaster achievement (Seven quests left!) and found Azuregos alive:

131 gs? Plus two epics, a bag of gems and some greens and the sinew. Shit, I hit the jackpot :lol

 

[funkmastergeneral]

You guys are just fucking crybabies. It's a heroic group, sure it's nice for the dps to pass on a tanking item, but you used random dungeon finder knowing the consequences.

If you don't want terrible dps "ninjaing" your tank gear, put together a 5 man group of people you know. Otherwise, shut the fuck up about it.

Also dropping group mid pull is a bitch move regardless of what the healer "ninjaed" from you

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Anyone here tanking on a DK? I've been trying and now I'll sound like a total noob cause I have questions.

Is the priority correct? Found this on the forums: BB -> diseases up -> RS for threat or DS to heal + apply shield (and threat) -> HS -> HoW/DRW?

I really can't find the rhythm with how the runes fill up right now (10s between each one is kinda slow) especially with Runic Empowerment being random as it is. I've spent a couple hours just trying to get it down at the dummy but it still feels a bit weird. So, if RE procs a blood rune, obviously I can spend it on BB or HS, but if it refreshes a death rune, won't I still have to wait for another to DS anyway? I suppose I can blood tap for a death rune and use it. What about Festering Strike if I have a blood and death rune up? I've heard it causes alot of threat, or is that wrong?

I haven't done many dungeons yet, but I suppose having RS available might help as the proper RP dump? It's still a bit annoying not being able to RS on demand yet in BP. I'm just curious also if that's the reason DK threat might not be so high (in raids), is it because they can't really RS to dump RP yet?

On the other hand, paladin tanking (my main) is fun, so is the new druid stuff with Pulverize and everything. I sort of enjoy not having to continuously press Maul like a madman, or the other ONAs in fact.

Unless things changed, only thing I can say is RS should be macroed to everything.

#showtooltip Some Ability
/cast Some Ability
/cast Rune Strike

RS is on a different GCD, so you never have to click it twice. you always see the tool tip info, icon, and the CD info of X ability and not RS. drag a standalone RS somewhere that you don't touch to test/observe it actually going off.

 

[TomServo]

I'm still not great/experienced with my dk tank post 4.01, but (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong), you shouldn't focus as much on diseases. After BB'ing, I'd personally DS/HS for high initial threat. The issue is that they took the threat modifier away from IT, and I believe blood gets most of their threat from physical damage anyway. I've heard one disease is the way to go, though I'm unsure.

In the limited tanking I've done, for trash I'll go IT / PS -> pestilence -> BB -> DS / HS / RS while tab targeting. DnD buys enough time to get diseases up, spread them, and pop blood boil and beyond that it's rare to lose threat on trash.

For bosses it's easier... diseases go up after I build a bit of a threat lead.

As for festering strike.. dunno the threat modifier on that one, but I thought it was put in as a way for unholy DKs to burn extra blood runes.

Also dropping group mid pull is a bitch move regardless of what the healer "ninjaed" from you

You sound like a crybaby. If the tank dropping group mid pull bothers you, man up and tank the shit yourself.

 

[Evlar]

You guys are just fucking crybabies. It's a heroic group, sure it's nice for the dps to pass on a tanking item, but you used random dungeon finder knowing the consequences.

If you don't want terrible dps "ninjaing" your tank gear, put together a 5 man group of people you know. Otherwise, shut the fuck up about it.

Also dropping group mid pull is a bitch move regardless of what the healer "ninjaed" from you

Heh. Hope tanks in general take this advice. Then we won't have to worry about them dropping groups, as the groups won't exist.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

In the limited tanking I've done, for trash I'll go IT / PS -> pestilence -> BB -> DS / HS / RS while tab targeting. DnD buys enough time to get diseases up, spread them, and pop blood boil and beyond that it's rare to lose threat on trash.

For bosses it's easier... diseases go up after I build a bit of a threat lead.

As for festering strike.. dunno the threat modifier on that one, but I thought it was put in as a way for unholy DKs to burn extra blood runes.



You sound like a crybaby. If the tank dropping group mid pull bothers you, man up and tank the shit yourself.

I wish shaman could still tank. Bring us back to the glory days.

 

[TomServo]

I wish shaman could still tank. Bring us back to the glory days.

Well if they can't tank you should probably shut the fuck up about it, right?

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Well if they can't tank you should probably shut the fuck up about it, right?

If you're gonna drop group don't be a dickweed and do it during the middle of a pull. I don't care if you cry and leave group, just don't give me a repair bill because you're on your period.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

If you're gonna drop group don't be a dickweed and do it during the middle of a pull. I don't care if you cry and leave group, just don't give me a repair bill because you're on your period.

"You guys are just fucking crybabies. It's a heroic group, sure it's nice for the tank not to leave mid pull, but you used random dungeon finder knowing the consequences."

fixed

 

[notworksafe]

If you don't want terrible dps "ninjaing" your tank gear, put together a 5 man group of people you know. Otherwise, shut the fuck up about it.

If DPS wants tank gear then they can tank an instance. It's a faster queue anyway. I don't mind DPS taking tank gear, unless the tank actually wants it. Then they should have to pass. Same for all the specs and their respective gear types.

I usually wait for the respective people who could use the gear drop to roll before I do, in order to avoid accidentally taking something. Or I just roll DE on everything, since that has the lowest priority.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

If DPS wants tank gear then they can tank an instance. It's a faster queue anyway. I don't mind DPS taking tank gear, unless the tank actually wants it. Then they should have to pass. Same for all the specs and their respective gear types.

I usually wait for the respective people who could use the gear drop to roll before I do, in order to avoid accidentally taking something. Or I just roll DE on everything, since that has the lowest priority.

you can trade gear these days.

greed/DE has the same priority.

 

[notworksafe]

Yeah but it's easier to just roll DE/wait rather than trading items. Plus I'm an enchanter so DE is always an option when I'm in a group. I almost never greed anymore, unless it's a BoE item.

 

[Flib]

With the changes to defense, the barrier to entry for tanking is much lower, so there is no reason not to queue as the tank. You should have to work for your gear, not have someone else gear you up for a chosen role.

In regards to the tank dropping: if someone ninja's the tank's gear, it's perfectly acceptable for him to drop. Why should he have to carry people through the instance who are being asses and taking his gear? However, if he drops in the middle of a run because something he wanted off a boss didn't drop, then he's a dick, plain and simple.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Yeah but it's easier to just roll DE/wait rather than trading items. Plus I'm an enchanter so DE is always an option when I'm in a group. I almost never greed anymore, unless it's a BoE item.

I always check AH cause on my server the greed loot vendors more than the DE loot a lot of the times.

 

[notworksafe]

I turn DE loot into enchanting scrolls. That's the real way to make money as an enchanter.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

yeah mother fucker.

phase 2 of the regional queue system of implemented and i was effected in the dungeon finder. i have two other battlegroups.

ooh, a toon on another server is with 3 other battlegroups for battlegrounds.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/27497535489/region-wide-battlegroup-matching/

i'll hop on and test out the queue time for DPS.

as far as i know, once fully completed, we'll all be with 12 other battlegroups

 

[funkmastergeneral]

yeah mother fucker.

phase 2 of the regional queue system of implemented and i was effected in the dungeon finder. i have two other battlegroups.

ooh, a toon on another server is with 3 other battlegroups for battlegrounds.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/27497535489/region-wide-battlegroup-matching/

i'll hop on and test out the queue time for DPS.

as far as i know, once fully completed, we'll all be with 12 other battlegroups

I see no reason why this would affect dps queue times. Sure there are more tanks/healers available, but that also means a hell of a lot more dps queueing.

 

[Rapstah]

I see no reason why this would affect dps queue times. Sure there are more tanks/healers available, but that also means a hell of a lot more dps queueing.

I can imagine healer queues will go down though, yay in preparation for Cata (because then is when this'll shine with people playing more than now).

 

[Flib]

I'm in one of the phase 1 merges, and it hasn't changed queue time at all on my server. Still like 13minutes for dps queues, though healer queues are down from 3 min to under 1 min.

 

[notworksafe]

Hm. Seems my battlegroup (Retaliation) got grouped up with Stormstrike and Nightfall for Dungeon Finder. As a tank I'll probably never notice.

 

[yacobod]

i think its funny that ppl are bitching about ninjad dungeon and heroic blues and purpz, the loot and dungeons are 2 years old now who cares

 

[Rapstah]

i think its funny that ppl are bitching about ninjad dungeon and heroic blues and purpz, the loot and dungeons are 2 years old now who cares

The people who need the items and/or are running instances that are from later patches? :lol

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Eaach attempt, minutes apart, seperated by a comma.
Didn't wait for it to pop.

*Mal'Ganis Horde, 3 dungeon finder battlegroups linked:
AWT random DPS: 10,6,6,7,11,11,7,10 (8.5 min average)
AWT random Tank: instant
AWT random BG: 12,16,15 (14.3 min average)


*Akama Horde, 4 battleground battlegroups linked:
AWT random DPS: 13, 13, 5 ,12, 7,10,18,15 (11.6 min average)
AWT random healer: 2, 2
AWT random BG: 5,5,5

Don't have time to test for actual pops.

 

[Angry Grimace]

i think its funny that ppl are bitching about ninjad dungeon and heroic blues and purpz, the loot and dungeons are 2 years old now who cares

I think it's funny that after like 3 years in this thread, you still write in lolspeak. I imagine it takes more of the reader's time to decode lolspeak than it does for you to just write in some semblance of proper English.

As for queues, I really can't believe Cataclysm will make it anything other than worse, given that the harder the dungeons are, the less people will be inclined to bother trying to tank them.

 

[Soroc]

i think its funny that ppl are bitching about ninjad dungeon and heroic blues and purpz, the loot and dungeons are 2 years old now who cares

Why do people think along this line of reasoning. New people are always coming into the game and looking to gear up. Just like you did 2 years ago so the dungeon is old to you but not to somebody that may have decided to start playing 2 months ago.

 

[TomServo]

The people who need the items and/or are running instances that are from later patches?

That, and what's going to happen when Cata drops and dungeon gear is relevant again, and not just for people's alts or offspecs but for their main's primary role?

The same people who mock guys gearing up alts now will be crying all over the place the first time they lose a roll on a pre-raid BiS item to someone's offspec roll.

 

[Acidote]

Loremaster achieved =)

 

[Flib]

Grats, man! Something I know I will never ever ever do.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

yeah my mounts and achievements are spread out on different characters

no way id grind that on something :/

 

[letsbereasonable]

This is a retarded idea. I got most of my resto gear for my shaman through random dungeon finder, but I did so while using my enhancement spec because I'm far better geared in that spec. If you only allowed people queued as tanks to roll for tank gear you'd just end up with a lot of undergeared pug tanks.

I'm not saying that the restriction would completely lock people out of rolling for an off-spec item, only that the person(s) actually playing the spec at that time would have first shot at it. It's not unreasonable to ask that people attempt to roll on the spec they're actually playing at the time.

Obviously a lot of this is downplayed because heroic 5-man gear is mostly worthless, but when Cata hits this kind of thing is going to flare up until raid gear becomes standard, especially if the LFD tool is primarily used.

Hopefully the guild achievement stuff convinces most people just to group up the old fashioned way.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

*Mal'Ganis Horde, 3 dungeon finder battlegroups linked:
Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 10) (Pop- 10)

*Akama Horde, no dungeons linked.
Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 9) (Pop-3)
Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 9) (Pop- 45 seconds)
Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 9) (Pop- 40 seconds) fresh instance, 30 min debuff


...this is interesting...

 

[Cyrillus]

I'm not saying that the restriction would completely lock people out of rolling for an off-spec item, only that the person(s) actually playing the spec at that time would have first shot at it. It's not unreasonable to ask that people attempt to roll on the spec they're actually playing at the time.

Obviously a lot of this is downplayed because heroic 5-man gear is mostly worthless, but when Cata hits this kind of thing is going to flare up until raid gear becomes standard, especially if the LFD tool is primarily used.

Hopefully the guild achievement stuff convinces most people just to group up the old fashioned way.

This makes sense to me...They already have a restriction on armor/weapon types in terms of who can roll need/greed...changing the "need before greed" system to add in group roles seems like a small bit of coding.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

did some more testing....

According to this, Akama is apart of Vegence. They are supposedly not linked to anything in the random dungeon queue.
1.Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 9) (Pop-3) cancel, re-queue
2.Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 9) (Pop- 45 seconds) cancel, re-queue
3.Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 9) (Pop- 40 seconds) fresh instance, 30 min debuff
30 min later:
4.Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 11) (Pop-20 seconds ) cancel, re-queue
5. Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 11) (Pop-30 seconds ) cancel, re-queue
6. Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 11) (Pop-30 seconds ) cancel, re-queue
7. Random dungeon DPS: (AWT- 10) (Pop-30 seconds ) cancel, re-queue

Mal'Ganis, supposedly linked to 2 others, gets a 10ish min queue and pop. If a blue was wrong in the OP, and Akama is the one that is linked to others in random dungeon, this is a significant improvement.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

DK tanking weapon.

Possibly, but assuming hit can be found or reforged on other items, Akirus the Worm Breaker will be superior.

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59330/shalugdoom-the-axe-of-unmaking/

Is not too shabby as well, especially if you're an orc and get the expertise bonus (though racials could always change).

It all depends on whether hit or expertise is the least prevalent stat on tanking gear in the first tier, as it tends to lean one way or the other.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

Unless things changed, only thing I can say is RS should be macroed to everything.

#showtooltip Some Ability
/cast Some Ability
/cast Rune Strike

RS is on a different GCD, so you never have to click it twice. you always see the tool tip info, icon, and the CD info of X ability and not RS. drag a standalone RS somewhere that you don't touch to test/observe it actually going off.

Just double checked to make sure I wasn't going to say the wrong thing, but this no longer works in 4.01. Rune Strike was changed to be on the GCD, and it's an instant attack, not on next swing. These macros work sometimes now, but not how they did before. You have to manually Rune Strike if you want to use it as much as it's up - I have it bound to a thumb button on my mouse.

I was pretty sure this was the case, since I main a DK tank, but wasn't completely sure.

 

[Acidote]

So... Askhandi back to business? :lol

 

[Bisnic]

Badass wallpaper

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/wallpapers/wallpaper197.html

 

[Angry Grimace]

Possibly, but assuming hit can be found or reforged on other items, Akirus the Worm Breaker will be superior.

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59330/shalugdoom-the-axe-of-unmaking/

Is not too shabby as well, especially if you're an orc and get the expertise bonus (though racials could always change).

It all depends on whether hit or expertise is the least prevalent stat on tanking gear in the first tier, as it tends to lean one way or the other.

faster weapon = boo

Also, that is a mace, and orcs only get expertise from Axes. Edit: you're probably talking about the axe you linked, not the big picture

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Possibly, but assuming hit can be found or reforged on other items, Akirus the Worm Breaker will be superior.

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59330/shalugdoom-the-axe-of-unmaking/

Is not too shabby as well, especially if you're an orc and get the expertise bonus (though racials could always change).

It all depends on whether hit or expertise is the least prevalent stat on tanking gear in the first tier, as it tends to lean one way or the other.

Didn't see this one. Definitely better with the mastery and expertise. I want that Blood Shield to be as fat as possible.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Didn't see this one. Definitely better with the mastery and expertise. I want that Blood Shield to be as fat as possible.

Expertise is a nice stat, but it's devalued by DK's by virtue of the fact that you don't actually lose runes when you are dodged or parried, they just refresh after .5 seconds.

My guess is, that you will want to reforge Critical Strike rating into Mastery as a DK tank on your weapons, though.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Expertise is a nice stat, but it's devalued by DK's by virtue of the fact that you don't actually lose runes when you are dodged or parried, they just refresh after .5 seconds.

My guess is, that you will want to reforge Critical Strike rating into Mastery as a DK tank on your weapons, though.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Rune Strike's "cannot be dodged or parried" aspect is removed in the beta, in which case I don't want to be missing them at the beginning of the fight while I'm still fighting for threat.

edit: Or having a well timed Death Strike dodged.

 

[J-Rzez]

Not a "bad" model, just hope they clean it up a bit, add some flair to it too. BoA is nice though, this will become the Titansteel Destroyer 2.0.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Not a "bad" model, just hope they clean it up a bit, add some flair to it too. BoA is nice though, this will become the Titansteel Destroyer 2.0.

Low Rez models have no place in modern WoW, really. They should just re-do it to make it look less fuzzy.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

On Borean Tundra my DPS queue went from 20 minutes to 12-13 minutes after the Phase 1 merge. Phase 2 merge is still at 13 minutes at the moment.

Also, I have been working with another guild in trying to kill the 10 man version of the Lich King and boy is that a very complicated fight. It was pretty difficult for us at first and over the course of the night we managed to get him to 36% every attempt. Defiles are my worst nightmare and the second transition manages to get us off our concentration. Hopefully we'll get him this week or before the expansion launch.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Rune Strike's "cannot be dodged or parried" aspect is removed in the beta, in which case I don't want to be missing them at the beginning of the fight while I'm still fighting for threat.

edit: Or having a well timed Death Strike dodged.

Strike the target for 150% weapon damage plus (2 * AP * 10 / 100). Only usable while in Blood Presence, or for 10 sec after the Death Knight dodges or parries. This attack cannot be dodged, blocked, or parried, and causes a high amount of threat.

Plus you just Death Strike again.

 

[Flib]

Oof at the latest beta build for some of my specs:

Death Knight (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)

•Rune Strike now scales from 15% of Attack Power, down from 20%.
•Icebound Fortitude now reduces damage taken by 20%, down from 30%. Cooldown increased from 2 min to 3 min.

Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)

Feral
•Mangle (Cat Form) now deals 184% normal damage, down from 360%.
•Mangle (Bear Form) now deals 95% normal damage, down from 230%.
•Bear Form now increases Stamina by 10%, down from 25%.
•Survival Instincts now reduces damage taken by 50%, down from 60%. Cooldown changed to 3 min, down from 5 min.
•Shred now deals 267% damage, down from 350%. Additional damage reduced by 25%, from 1156 to 882.
•Savage Defense now reduces damage from the next physical attack that strikes you by 35% of your attack power, down from 65%.
•Swipe now deals 232% weapon damage, down from 335%.
•Ravage (Cat Form) now deals 505% damage, down from 850%. Additional damage reduced by 40%, from 2809 to 1669.
•Ravage! (Stampede) now deals 505% damage, down from 850%. Additional damage reduced by 8%, from 1817 to 1669.
•Claw now deals 77% of normal damage, down from 155%.

Restoration
•Rejuvenation now costs 26% of base mana, up from 20% of base mana.
•Revitalize is now a 2 Ranks talent, down from 3 Ranks. Now has a 20% chance to proc at all ranks, now regenerates 1/2% of your total mana (down from 3%) and cannot occur more than once every 12 sec (up from 6 sec).
•Heart of the Wild now increases your Stamina in bear form by 2/4/6%, down from 3/7/10%.

 

[JesseZao]

Nerfs

Is that just because druids were scaling too well with stat changes?

 

[Flib]

Is that just because druids were scaling too well with stat changes?

They definitely needed to be nerfed (at 85, there would be no reason to take anything but druid tanks to raids), but some of these AP scaling nerfs seem pretty overkill.

Survivability was an issue though. Other tanks were getting two-shot regularly by some bosses, because the damage output was being balanced around bear survivability. By nerfing us, they can bring that number down, and I'm all for that, but I'm not sure we needed our damage output nerfed that hard. We were the highest TPS as well, so I'm fine with a nerf, it's the numbers that scare me. I'm not a theorycrafter though, so I could be wrong.

I am worried though about the health equalization for druids...I've read some theorycrafting that we may end up as the bottom-rung tank, since that was one of our few advantages...unfortunately, now that effective health turns out to be the best thing, we were in the best place tanking-wise. We'll see how it pans out, but I'm nervous.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

On Borean Tundra my DPS queue went from 20 minutes to 12-13 minutes after the Phase 1 merge. Phase 2 merge is still at 13 minutes at the moment.

Also, I have been working with another guild in trying to kill the 10 man version of the Lich King and boy is that a very complicated fight. It was pretty difficult for us at first and over the course of the night we managed to get him to 36% every attempt. Defiles are my worst nightmare and the second transition manages to get us off our concentration. Hopefully we'll get him this week or before the expansion launch.

Ooh - you Horde or Alliance on Borean Tundra? Used to be my main realm (Horde), but I transferred my main off. Still have two 80s there, but will transfer the shaman off shortly before Cata drops. Abandoning the hunter for the moment.