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[Zerokku]

In other news, all that archaeology grinding paid off! First canopic jar, second Tol'vir artifact overall, woo

http://home.windstream.net/kubek/ssd.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Which mount is that :o

 

[Angry Grimace]

BTW, J-Rez;

Rather difficult fight for a normal mode - this expansion's tuning is off to an excellent start!

 

[Rapstah]

Have any heroic attempts of any raid started seriously yet? I'm assuming the number of people who have downed Cho'gall at all is still pretty low.

 

[Ferrio]

Which mount is that

Think that's not a regular mount, but gives you the ability to turn into a dragon as your mount.

 

[Aurarian]

Have any heroic attempts of any raid started seriously yet? I'm assuming the number of people who have downed Cho'gall at all is still pretty low.

Well, MMO has only put up Halfus which was supposedly pretty easy as well in beta, I believe there was some heroic mode testing for that as well.

While we're on discussion about the new drakes, I have to concede that they are way better looking than most of the current in-game models. I'm probably going for the West Wind one as well since it's the easiest to attain and I believe it's the best looking of the bunch.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Have any heroic attempts of any raid started seriously yet? I'm assuming the number of people who have downed Cho'gall at all is still pretty low.

Yes, I think a couple of raids are 2/12.

 

[Dina]

I spent two and a half hours in heroic grim batol last night, and never got through forgemaster! It was me tanking with two other guildies, a pug priest healer who had the lowest general healing output I've seen recently and a pug hunter who told us he knew how to kite. This was a bold faced lie. Need to go back in there with an actual guild group.

Hate ripsnarl as well. Rogues and cats are bad on vapors.

Anyway, about Throngus, the tank should kite in the mace-phase. You might get hit once, but with stampeding roar you should be gone by then. Rest of the two phases is just walking through the boss and popping every cooldown on the swordphase.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

BTW, J-Rez;

Guess what they also said?

"The 10 player version of the fight is incomparably easier due to the skeleton add mechanic - 5 adds spawn total, rather than 12."

There's a lot of 10 man only guilds out there.

 

[SUPARSTARX]

Guess what they also said?

"The 10 player version of the fight is incomparably easier due to the skeleton add mechanic - 5 adds spawn total, rather than 12."

There's a lot of 10 man only guilds out there.

But mistakes in 10 man are more punishing though, especially if you lose a player or two.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

But mistakes in 10 man are more punishing though, especially if you lose a player or two.

I understand a different experience between the sizes will always exist, but it shouldn't be so much easier.

 

[Dina]

I heard somewhere that hit and expertise aren't important for cats, because we rely on white dmg a lot less then other melee specs. On the other hand, this seems so weird.

Any raiding/heroic feral cat can help me out here? I know the caps, I just gotta know what to reforge/gem for, hit/expertise or mastery.

 

[Aurarian]

I heard somewhere that hit and expertise aren't important for cats, because we rely on white dmg a lot less then other melee specs. On the other hand, this seems so weird.

Any raiding/heroic feral cat can help me out here? I know the caps, I just gotta know what to reforge/gem for, hit/expertise or mastery.

I'm not expert on cats but we do have a feral cat in our guild heroic groups and I remember him saying that mastery is his best stat apart from crit since mastery is all about their bleed damage and feral cat damage basically comes from dot damage.

 

[Flib]

Hate ripsnarl as well. Rogues and cats are bad on vapors.

Anyway, about Throngus, the tank should kite in the mace-phase. You might get hit once, but with stampeding roar you should be gone by then. Rest of the two phases is just walking through the boss and popping every cooldown on the swordphase.

Yeah, I completed heroic Grim Batol on the beta. This time, our pug healer's throughput just wasn't there, and the pug hunter died at the beginning of every fight to cave-in. We're going to go back in with a full guild group tonight and knock it out.

 

[Flib]

I understand a different experience between the sizes will always exist, but it shouldn't be so much easier.

And Kungen (main tank of Ensidia) said re heroic Halfus:

"Thanks for the support!

I'll share some information for the little cry babies as well. We wanted to start early and a few healers were MIA so we had to go 10 man instead of 25 and we killed it. Simple as that. I'm also pretty sure that Halfus is harder in 10 man as well since you have to deal with boss +4 adds, which is extremely annoying when you're forced to use 2 tanks in 10 man since you won't have enough DPS otherwise.

It was also a WORLD FIRST WORLD FIRST WORLD FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WORLD FIRST!!!!!!!!!! "

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Oh shit healers not showing up to ensidia raids? Time to move to Europe and submit an application.

 

[KJTB]

So when should I go to Uldum? I'm 83 soon and just started doing Deepholm.

I went to uldum as soon as I could, so right when I hit 83. I didn't really like deepholm too much tbh.

 

[krypt0nian]

I heard somewhere that hit and expertise aren't important for cats, because we rely on white dmg a lot less then other melee specs. On the other hand, this seems so weird.

Any raiding/heroic feral cat can help me out here? I know the caps, I just gotta know what to reforge/gem for, hit/expertise or mastery.

Check out the Stats section here - http://fluiddruid.net/the-fluid-druid-4-0-1-cataclysm-feral-dps-guide/

 

[Rokam]

Did my first heroic last night, HoO, wasn't too bad only wipes we had were some miscommunications on trash. The only semi-difficult boss in there was the boss that summons portals, mainly because he kept dropping his purple shit on the spawn points of portals so I couldn't help dps them. In other news crafting my 100th troll artifact, hooray. :lol

 

[C.Dark.DN]

is there a ring of blood equivalent for a 2h strength weapon? if there are multiple tiers, i'm 84 and want the best one.

 

[Rokam]

is there a ring of blood equivalent for a 2h strength weapon? if there are multiple tiers, i'm 84 and want the best one.

Yes in Twilight Highlands, Crucible of Carnage has a 2h sword reward.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Yes in Twilight Highlands, Crucible of Carnage has a 2h sword reward.

awesome, thanks. i hovered over the mmo-champion quest list and saw nothing.

And Kungen (main tank of Ensidia) said re heroic Halfus:

"Thanks for the support!

I'll share some information for the little cry babies as well. We wanted to start early and a few healers were MIA so we had to go 10 man instead of 25 and we killed it. Simple as that. I'm also pretty sure that Halfus is harder in 10 man as well since you have to deal with boss +4 adds, which is extremely annoying when you're forced to use 2 tanks in 10 man since you won't have enough DPS otherwise.

It was also a WORLD FIRST WORLD FIRST WORLD FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WORLD FIRST!!!!!!!!!! "

Unlike what I quoted, they haven't actually done both when that was written. If it is true, it's still bad that bosses would be significantly easier on either side.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Any good guides out there for enhancement? I'm mainly looking for one to explain the basics and leveling strat, as my shaman is only 53.

 

[MattPeters]

World first kill of the first heroic boss in a raid shouldn't be news worthy. :lol it's a nice kill, and astounding how Adept/Paragon/Ensidia are progressing but let's save the party for Lady Sinestra or Cho'gall.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Guess what they also said?

"The 10 player version of the fight is incomparably easier due to the skeleton add mechanic - 5 adds spawn total, rather than 12."

There's a lot of 10 man only guilds out there.

Your point being?

J-rzez was inferring that the entire raid structure was super mega undertuned and he knew all this based entirely off of not playing it but simply by the number of people who passed it.

World first kill of the first heroic boss in a raid shouldn't be news worthy. :lol it's a nice kill, and astounding how Adept/Paragon/Ensidia are progressing but let's save the party for Lady Sinestra or Cho'gall.

Ensidia/Paragon/Awesomemegahardcoreguild passing content has almost nothing to do with how the content is tuned because they are super-hardcore; I mean, Paragon also did H-LK 25 with the buff turned off.

If they couldn't pass it without being full 359s, it would mean the content is literally not possible to do. It's inherently designed so that casuals that aren't really very good can at least pass it with enough time and effort.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Your point being?

J-rzez was inferring that the entire raid structure was super mega undertuned and he knew all this based entirely off of not playing it but simply by the number of people who passed it.

You were boasting how hard 25 man version was to argue with J-rez in a way this is smug a hell, and I'm letting you know 10 men guild wont experience something that hard.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You were boasting how hard 25 man version was to argue with J-rez in a way this is smug a hell, and I'm letting you know 10 men guild wont experience something that hard.

I never once even referenced the differences between 10 and 25 man, ever. The only reason I referenced Premonition's world first in 25s was because they AREN'T world first in 10s. Some other guild was; the problem is that this is a completely different argument than the one J-Rzez was making. Jrez's argument was "raiding is too easy." I'll listen to the argument that it's not a fair comparison based on the size difference, but that issue wasn't reasonably inferred by Jrez's argument.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I never once said a thing about 25 man, ever.

You didn't?

BTW, J-Rez;

Originally Posted by Premonition, 12/12 world first in 25s:
Rather difficult fight for a normal mode - this expansion's tuning is off to an excellent start!

Me telling you that the 10 man version is significantly easier and reminding you that not everyone is going to be doing 25 is a valid reply.

Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Twig]

Your point being?

J-rzez was inferring that the entire raid structure was super mega undertuned and he knew all this based entirely off of not playing it but simply by the number of people who passed it.

Man you sure like to complain a lot.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You didn't?



Me telling you that the 10 man version is significantly easier and reminding you that not everyone is going to be doing 25 is a valid reply.

Nothing more nothing less.

I had no clue what you were talking about, until I figured you were probably inferring this from the fact I appended what they were doing on it; see above edit. As I said, that argument is one I'll listen to, but it isn't one that's reasonably inferred from what Jrez was claiming.

Man you sure like to complain a lot.

You're like a child that walks into the middle of a movie and wants to know what's going on.

Stay in your lane.

Where did you get that data from?

I believe it was a discussion on a farming thread; the actual % number is unknown, but most people were suggesting it was as low as 1% given that nobody seems to have it, and many people have done over 100 troll projects @525 without seeing it.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Instead of bitching, you guys should spend your time helping me find a decent shaman site. :lol

 

[Flib]

Well this should be fun re hard modes:

Zaroua
Premonition Member Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 431

The encounters aren't as fun as Freya Mimiron or Yogg (which pretty much are the 3 best encounters in WoW in my book). But they're far better than the ICC and ToGC crap for the most part.


Tuning is ridiculously bad though. Blizzard completely missed the mark on tuning. Burst damage on tanks and non-tanks alike is far worse than it's ever been in the game. Healing some of the hard modes was and is comparable to healing through LK's Infest while the raid is infected by Anub's Leeching Swarm. It's awful and the polar opposite of what we were promised raid healing would be like by GC. I seriously hope Blizzard gets their shit together and fixes healing/damage for the next tier of content because this shit is extremely stupid.

 

[Evlar]

Instead of bitching, you guys should spend your time helping me find a decent shaman site. :lol

An epic quest indeed.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Well this should be fun re hard modes:

Zaroua
Premonition Member Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 431

The encounters aren't as fun as Freya Mimiron or Yogg (which pretty much are the 3 best encounters in WoW in my book). But they're far better than the ICC and ToGC crap for the most part.


Tuning is ridiculously bad though. Blizzard completely missed the mark on tuning. Burst damage on tanks and non-tanks alike is far worse than it's ever been in the game. Healing some of the hard modes was and is comparable to healing through LK's Infest while the raid is infected by Anub's Leeching Swarm. It's awful and the polar opposite of what we were promised raid healing would be like by GC. I seriously hope Blizzard gets their shit together and fixes healing/damage for the next tier of content because this shit is extremely stupid.

Based on what people are saying about healing in general, my guess is that its healing itself that's tuned weird. I totally get the premise of the healing rework, but you're I can imagine not wanting to heal because its frustrating to have no resources but at the same time NEED to use your throughput spells.

I'm not sure I agree with the stance Blizzard is taking so far because nobody seems to want to tank and nobody seems to want to heal.

 

[Ferrio]

I'm not sure I agree with the stance Blizzard is taking so far because nobody seems to want to tank and nobody seems to want to heal.

No one wants to tank because it requires lots of concentration, that's on no fault of blizzard. Fine with me, I like being one of the few alert ones.

 

[Flib]

Based on what people are saying about healing in general, my guess is that its healing itself that's tuned weird. I totally get the premise of the healing rework, but you're I can imagine not wanting to heal because its frustrating to have no resources but at the same time NEED to use your throughput spells.

I'm not sure I agree with the stance Blizzard is taking so far because nobody seems to want to tank and nobody seems to want to heal.

I'm not really seeing a shortage of tanks, what I do see is that most decent tanks don't want to bother with the dungeon finder and are staying in guild for runs, so it looks like they've disappeared. Healers, I've definitely seen people lose interest due to frustration. Hell, my druid (tank) has a resto offspec, and I switched him to boomkin. Realized that if I'm going to take a break and do something besides tanking (which I love and am committed to), it might as well be something a bit relaxing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

No one wants to tank because it requires lots of concentration, that's on no fault of blizzard. Fine with me, I like being one of the few alert ones.

I think there's a mythical middle ground where you get rewarded for being a good tank, but it doesn't sap the rest of your players lifeforces if you're merely an average player.

 

[Alex]

To be fair, the expansion is like a week old, there's almost no one on Earth *anywhere* near hard modes so getting up in arms about tuning is really silly, especially with how fast they've shown to be on top of hotfixes and balance tweaks so far. The 0.00001% 24/7 "this is my job" lunatics are glorified testers and they should know that by now

On the other hand, to hell with the numbers behind current healing model. Good intentions, but it's pretty damn frustrating by design. I mean I can see this healing type working in another game, but it doesn't fit in with WoW, you just feel like you're shouldering the world.

I would, however, like to see them keep going on the model, but I can see the easy route being taken and numbers simply improved. That'd still make it far better than the other prior models, but it's giving up a lot of potential.

It would be fun to see them do the kind of stuff that people actually figured they might do though. Like make the efficient heal castable while moving or let you proc and stack up a few free flash-type heals, weave a free AOE heal, etc. They did a little with this, with things like Efflorescence and some small procs, but not enough.

Making a sanctioned downranking type system was a good idea, enforcing it was a good idea, but it was all just taken too far. It's just a bit of a masochistic niche at the moment, and that's why people are hesitating to play their healing specs.

 

[Ferrio]

I think there's a mythical middle ground where you get rewarded for being a good tank, but it doesn't sap the rest of your players lifeforces if you're merely an average player.

I'd like it the other way around. Tanking is fine where it is, dps is too easy.

Sidenote, Wish had a raiding guild though

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'd like it the other way around. Tanking is fine where it is, dps is too easy.

Sidenote, Wish had a raiding guild though

I don't think you'd be too happy if you got your wish that and the game in general was just really hard.

You've always got hard modes if that's what you want out of the game.

To be fair, the expansion is like a week old, there's almost no one on Earth *anywhere* near hard modes so getting up in arms about tuning is really silly, especially with how fast they've shown to be on top of hotfixes and balance tweaks so far. The 0.00001% 24/7 "this is my job" lunatics are glorified testers and they should know that by now

On the other hand, to hell with the numbers behind current healing model. Good intentions, but it's pretty damn frustrating by design. I mean I can see this healing type working in another game, but it doesn't fit in with WoW, you just feel like you're shouldering the world.

I would, however, like to see them keep going on the model, but I can see the easy route being taken and numbers simply improved. That'd still make it far better than the other prior models, but it's giving up a lot of potential.

It would be fun to see them do the kind of stuff that people actually figured they might do though. Like make the efficient heal castable while moving or let you proc and stack up a few free flash-type heals, weave a free AOE heal, etc. They did a little with this, with things like Efflorescence and some small procs, but not enough.

Making a sanctioned downranking type system was a good idea, enforcing it was a good idea, but it was all just taken too far. It's just a bit of a masochistic niche at the moment, and that's why people are hesitating to play their healing specs.

I consider myself a reasonably good healer, but I'm genuinely concerned about even bothering to heal a random. I suppose we'll find out when I get my Priest or Druid to the leveling process.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

No one wants to tank because it requires lots of concentration, that's on no fault of blizzard. Fine with me, I like being one of the few alert ones.

I think you're generalizing incorrectly. I'm getting burned out tanking already not because of what is required of me, but because of what is required of everyone else (sans healers) and how little they actually accomplish.

Disclaimer that this is for PUGs (which is where the tank shortage probably is the worst):

I consider myself an above average tank. I'm sure I'm not the pinnacle of tanks--I screw up, but I know when I do, and for the most part, I don't repeat a mistake once I know what to do. I'm consistently complimented by groups for smooth runs.

However, when you have to explain everything each time and you STILL have DPS that don't DPS skull or CC moon and who don't "move out of the tornadoes", it's frustrating. It doesn't have to do with me being frustrated with tank mechanics--it has to do with outside of game factors that will hopefully get better once the playerbase smartens up.

The runs I've done where people follow marks and run CC have been a blast so far in Cata. But the other runs are pretty painful. This isn't to say that I want Blizzard to "change it back" because straight tank/spank dps races are pretty boring at this point. I just wish there was a more intuitive in-game system to training people that didn't all fall on the tank knowing the encounter and having to play policeman.

I would LOVE if the 'raid marker' and 'party role' system was taken to the next level where you could assign CC functions to people through an in game interface, and make the marks have a literal meaning, instead of something arbitrary. "Orange nipple thing" might be sap in one group and 3rd target priority in the next. Rather than asking each member to supply CC and hope they remember, actually right click on a group members portrait and assign a specific marker to them to CC. If these things were BUILT IN it would probably cause a lot less confusion between groups and it would be very clear who messed up. "Hey, the Orange Nipple didn't get sheeped. And look, the mage's portrait has an orange nipple on it. Mage, do your job."

Having a shield icon next to my face makes groups know I'm tanking. Having a cross next to the healer allows the group to know who's healing. When those jobs aren't done, blame goes around. Why not have additional marks for CC that actually translate into a literal in-game system?

 

[Ferrio]

I don't think you'd be too happy if you got your wish that and the game in general was just really hard.

Tanking isn't hard, it just requires you to actually watch the game. DPS for the most part can just zone out, and even if they fuck up it's hard to call them on it because it rarely causes a meltdown.

 

[SuperLurker]

To be fair, the expansion is like a week old, there's almost no one on Earth *anywhere* near hard modes so getting up in arms about tuning is really silly, especially with how fast they've shown to be on top of hotfixes and balance tweaks so far. The 0.00001% 24/7 "this is my job" lunatics are glorified testers and they should know that by now

On the other hand, to hell with the numbers behind current healing model. Good intentions, but it's pretty damn frustrating by design. I mean I can see this healing type working in another game, but it doesn't fit in with WoW, you just feel like you're shouldering the world.

I would, however, like to see them keep going on the model, but I can see the easy route being taken and numbers simply improved. That'd still make it far better than the other prior models, but it's giving up a lot of potential.

It would be fun to see them do the kind of stuff that people actually figured they might do though. Like make the efficient heal castable while moving or let you proc and stack up a few free flash-type heals, weave a free AOE heal, etc. They did a little with this, with things like Efflorescence and some small procs, but not enough.

Making a sanctioned downranking type system was a good idea, enforcing it was a good idea, but it was all just taken too far. It's just a bit of a masochistic niche at the moment, and that's why people are hesitating to play their healing specs.

I think healing is OK, I have 2 healing classes at 85 and the only thing that makes healing difficult is stuff that can be avoided. The groups that think they can pull an entire grim batol trash pack and AE it down, the people that stand in the fire, people that get hit by slow ass projectiles that have clearly marked them, these are the things that make healing a pain. If other members of the group would get over the "just heal through it" mentality then I imagine we'd see a lot less complaining about the current state of healing.

 

[Alex]

That's not really my qualm with it at all, although I am unhappy with being unable to correct any flaws in play. There's a difference between too much of that and none of it. it's all so marginalized, you're basically a required niche than a powerful player now.

If they want to do that to healing, the least they could do is make it more adverse to the actual DPS or literal one shots.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Around 300 it goes quick until you hit 450ish. But yeah, it's a slow profession to level. No way around that.

I wish they had a lot more cool stuff to gain from archaeology, random level 60 and 70 epics just aren't worth it. Hopefully they add more because the pet and mount are the only decently cool things from it.

 

[Tamanon]

I wish they had a lot more cool stuff to gain from archaeology, random level 60 and 70 epics just aren't worth it. Hopefully they add more because the pet and mount are the only decently cool things from it.

I like my Clockwork Gnome and Hatchling on my level 59 Warrior, but at least it's more useful stuff than leveling cooking and vendoring almost everything you make. Just hit 300 in time for Outlands!

 

[funkmastergeneral]

I like my Clockwork Gnome and Hatchling on my level 59 Warrior, but at least it's more useful stuff than leveling cooking and vendoring almost everything you make. Just hit 300 in time for Outlands!

Leveling cooking doesn't take a tenth of the time archaeology does to level. It's boring and the benefits are minimal.

 

[Ferrio]

Leveling cooking doesn't take a tenth of the time archaeology does to level. It's boring and the benefits are minimal.

Wasn't archaeology originally suppose to work along side the titan stuff that got nixed?

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I like my Clockwork Gnome and Hatchling on my level 59 Warrior, but at least it's more useful stuff than leveling cooking and vendoring almost everything you make. Just hit 300 in time for Outlands!

The thought of leveling archeology to 300 before I can fly makes my wrists hurt. :lol

"Time is money, friend."

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Any good guides out there for enhancement? I'm mainly looking for one to explain the basics and leveling strat, as my shaman is only 53.

Use primal strike until level 40, then use storm strike. Windfury on your mainhand and flametongue on your offhand, drop searing totem because it buffs Lava Lash damage by a shit ton. Flameshock is the shock to use, but once a mob has the DoT use earth shock instead.

There's really not much to it. Have any specific questions?

 

[shintoki]

I think there's a mythical middle ground where you get rewarded for being a good tank, but it doesn't sap the rest of your players lifeforces if you're merely an average player.

I'd take a guess that part of it is that Healers have to get used to being actually intelligent again, and not another Mage after WOTLK :lol