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[Won]

Man, Twig. You are wrong so often, but I don't think I have seen you being that wrong. Wow. Damn.

 

[Twig]

Man, Twig. You are wrong so often, but I don't think I have seen you being that wrong. Wow. Damn.

It's not my fault the vast majority of people who play this game are idiots.

I guess my server is just better than yours.

 

[Rokam]

Honestly they just need to change TB to whoever has the most bases wins. Convert towers to giving a Tenacity style buff for the defenders, nothing too huge but enough for an advantage. Buff slowly goes away with each tower destroyed. And since there is no time extension just slap on an extra 10-15 minutes to the fight.

And your server is clearly not better, it just means the side your facing is more retarded:lol .

 

[krypt0nian]

It's not my fault the vast majority of people who play this game are idiots.

I guess my server is just better than yours.

Shit like this is why I never go back to the battle.net forums. GTFO.

 

[Won]

It's not my fault the vast majority of people who play this game are idiots.

I guess my server is just better than yours.

Well then, explain how, with proper orginazation, the attackers can win against the big in the middle spawning defender zerg ball.

 

[Twig]

Shit like this is why I never go back to the battle.net forums. GTFO.

I mean, that was a joke, dude. CALM DOWN. IT'LL BE OKAY.

Seriously, that was a joke.

Well then, explain how, with proper orginazation, the attackers can win against the big in the middle spawning defender zerg ball.

Stay coordinated.

Defend the points you've taken, instead of everybody rushing one point at a time.
FIGHT ON THE FUCKING FLAG INSTEAD OF AT THE GATES (this is the worst thing people do in TB, and they never seem to learn).
Harassing their graveyard also doesn't hurt, as long as it's a small number of people (preferably prot warriors/paladins, etc... you know, people who can take a lot of hits without going down too fast).
Attack more than one point at a time - scout out which is most vulnerable, and send the right number of people instead of EVERYONE.

Would you like more?

 

[water_wendi]

Also, do you want to know WHY it should be harder for offense to win? Especially compared to the laughable idea that it should be easier for defense to win?

Because there needs to be a reason for defense to actually want to play.

There is already a reason to want to win as Defense. Its called the Raid that in TB. Cant raid it if you dont control it.

You already get a reward for winning, but if you're defending, then you've already had a chance at the sweet bonuses you get for holding TB. Knowing that, if it's impossible for defense to win, no one's going to actually want to play. EVERYONE wants to play offense, because they want to get access to the content, regardless of how difficult it is to win.

Ideally you dont make it impossible to win as Defense. That said, if the game could only be made to either make it impossible to Defend or impossible to Attack, you make it impossible to Defend so the faction that doesnt control has a shot at the perks controlling TB gives.

This is basic game design, and the fact that you don't understand it makes me doubt your ability to objectively criticize something like Tol Barad. You're just complaining. That's all you're doing.

Tol Barad is garbage and sloppy game design that should be an embarrassment to the supposedly great Blizzard. You will not see anyone saying its awesome unless its someone like you where your faction controls it. And before you say my faction doesnt so im bitter, wrong again. We won it a week ago during server reset and have had it in our control until win trading. Even then i dont even go most of the time as a PVP player because my idea of fun isnt to fucking faceroll every time. Some people like playing God-mode i guess, i dont.

 

[Narag]

This is as uncomfortable as reading Londa's posts in the FFXIV thread.

 

[Twig]

Some people like playing God-mode i guess, i dont.

That's why you want to win every time you're on offense?

Bullshit. The biggest (subjective) reason I have for preferring it the way it is now is because I like the challenge that comes with offense.

 

[KJTB]

Twig you are so off it's hard to read.

TB is so horribly designed, come on now. Blizzard even knows that they can't balance it at this point, hence giving the attackers a huge incentive to win.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

How do you get that out of

Poor reading comprehension.

Also, do you want to know WHY it should be harder for offense to win? Especially compared to the laughable idea that it should be easier for defense to win?

Because there needs to be a reason for defense to actually want to play. You already get a reward for winning, but if you're defending, then you've already had a chance at the sweet bonuses you get for holding TB. Knowing that, if it's impossible for defense to win, no one's going to actually want to play. EVERYONE wants to play offense, because they want to get access to the content, regardless of how difficult it is to win.

This is basic game design, and the fact that you don't understand it makes me doubt your ability to objectively criticize something like Tol Barad. You're just complaining. That's all you're doing.

Of course, the above is completely broken when it's much better for BOTH sides to just roll over and lose every other 4 hours thanks to the win-trading.

:lol

Spoiler

everyone, including blizzard, is wrong and you are right

 

[water_wendi]

Defend the points you've taken, instead of everybody rushing one point at a time.
FIGHT ON THE FUCKING FLAG INSTEAD OF AT THE GATES (this is the worst thing people do in TB, and they never seem to learn).

This does not matter. Attackers fight on flags.. Defense outnumbers.. flags change to our side. Remember, Offense has to cap all the way to the other side of the flag meter.. Defense just needs to move it to the grey.

Harassing their graveyard also doesn't hurt, as long as it's a small number of people (preferably prot warriors/paladins, etc... you know, people who can take a lot of hits without going down too fast).

Harassing the GY in center works until they spawn at the top and go where the harassers arent.

Attack more than one point at a time - scout out which is most vulnerable, and send the right number of people instead of EVERYONE.

Holy shit :lol :lol This is the strategy of someone who has only had the luxury of playing Defense. Hint: there is no strategy as Offense. You have to wait for Defense to mess up.

That's why you want to win every time you're on offense?

Bullshit. The biggest (subjective) reason I have for preferring it the way it is now is because I like the challenge that comes with offense.

There was only once in the 50 or so games ive played as Defense where we lost. It was early morning and we had a low numbers game. T

 

[Twig]

Holy shit :lol :lol This is the strategy of someone who has only had the luxury of playing Defense. Hint: there is no strategy as Offense. You have to wait for Defense to mess up.

I've played offense almost as much as I've played defense. :3

EDIT: Well, except one of those times was like right after people started win-trading, to be fair.

So, three REAL matches on offense. Like six or seven on defense. Only lost one on offense. Only lost one on defense.

 

[water_wendi]

I've played offense almost as much as I've played defense. :3

:lol i dont believe you sorry. You are so wrong is embarrassing.

 

[Twig]

:lol i dont believe you sorry. You are so wrong is embarrassing.

You can believe what you want; I don't give a shit!

Also, that strategy is a complete failure of a strategy on defense. You don't "send the appropriate number of people" in defense. You overpower the fuck out of them so they don't have a chance and you can take it as quick as possible.

I question whether or not you've actually played defense!

 

[Yoshichan]

So 15 wipes later, Megatron battle.

Loving it.

So good.

Sooooooooo good.

 

[water_wendi]

You can believe what you want; I don't give a shit!

Also, that strategy is a complete failure of a strategy on defense. You don't "send the appropriate number of people" in defense. You overpower the fuck out of them so they don't have a chance and you can take it as quick as possible.

I question whether or not you've actually played defense!

Here is strategy for Defense.

1) Go to two places at start of match

2) When Offense starts to take one, the rezzers at center go to node where Offense isnt

3) Do this for 30 min

4) Get dailies/farm herbs/mine ore

 

[Twig]

Here is strategy for Defense.

1) Go to two places at start of match

2) When Offense starts to take one, the rezzers at center go to node where Offense isnt

3) Do this for 30 min

4) Get dailies/farm herbs/mine ore

That assumes offense is doing nothing but zerging, man. This runs completely counter to "coordination" and "strategy."

 

[notsol337]

Yeah, got them reversed. In a game where so many people reduce things to abbreviations, dumping Arcane Blast and Arcane Barrage right next to each other in a rotation of 3 spells might've been a bad idea. Heh. Which ever one you stack to 4 with... that's the one you use. What I haven't figured out is more important yet: Hitting Missiles every time it procs regardless of AB stacks or wait til 4.

CC and interrupts is a given. Mages without Polymorph or Counterspell or Spell Steal on their bars should just reroll.

Well, you never want to get 4x arc blast debuffs unless you're in your "burn phase", so to speak. You dump the debuff every time it's active. I use missiles every time it goes off just because it gives me another tick of mage armor.

Also, I agree that Tol Barad should be harder to attack than it should be to defend. I was pretty heavily annoyed with how easy it was to take Wintergrasp. The attacking team didn't need to be good, they just needed to roll into the front wall and eat it. This made it incredibly annoying to defend, and half the time I tried I thought "What is the point." The few times I did offense in Tol Barad on my server, we won after a bitter struggle. This is because we got the Alliance to fight off the flags. Now that it's a bunch of win trading, the only hard thing about Tol Barad is getting the queue.

Furthermore, I'm failing to see why (once again) GAF is turning disagreement into disrespect. It's the internet, guys. Chill out.

 

[Twig]

Now that it's a bunch of win trading, the only hard thing about Tol Barad is getting the queue.

Heh, it's true.

Plus, if I did get in, I'd just start attacking people and get yelled at (fuck win-trading). Not sure if it's worth it for 1800 honor. \:

 

[water_wendi]

That assumes offense is doing nothing but zerging, man. This runs completely counter to "coordination" and "strategy."

:lol Even with their best strategies, coordinated efforts over Ventrilo, PVP guilds assisting.. Offense cannot win. Even killing us quickly does nothing since we rez closer to objectives. They can defend nodes all they want but a 10 person elite squad of Grand Marshal feral druids, ice mages and warriors cannot hold the node when they are outnumbered 3-to-1.

 

[Twig]

Offense cannot win.

YOU'RE RIGHT I'M COMPLETELY DREAMING THE TWO TIMES I DID WIN OFFENSE OH DEARY ME

we are done here until you stop being such a jerk

 

[water_wendi]

YOU'RE RIGHT I'M COMPLETELY DREAMING THE TWO TIMES I DID WIN OFFENSE OH DEARY ME

Like ive said. Offense can only win if Defense screws up.

And how am i being a jerk? By putting the :lol emote to the things you are posting? If you dont want that emote used stop saying hilarious things.

 

[notsol337]

:lol Even with their best strategies, coordinated efforts over Ventrilo, PVP guilds assisting.. Offense cannot win. Even killing us quickly does nothing since we rez closer to objectives. They can defend nodes all they want but a 10 person elite squad of Grand Marshal feral druids, ice mages and warriors cannot hold the node when they are outnumbered 3-to-1.

I've won offense twice when the Alliance was trying to defend before the win trading started.

It's possible, just takes a bit of thought. The only reason offense is hard is that it's hard to get 40 puggers to do something smart.

The battleground itself is fine, in my opinion. It's just a big circle. I'm sad that it's a world pvp thing, because I'd love for it to be an AB-style bg proper. Would have worked a little better if you accumulated points instead.

 

[Twig]

And how am i being a jerk?

On top of straight up ignoring the facts that I've been stating (I won offense TWICE, not through sheer luck), you're being incredibly elitist and insulting:

If you dont want that emote used stop saying hilarious things.

And I know you realize this, so I don't know why I bothered to point it out.

Enjoy your day.

 

[water_wendi]

On top of straight up ignoring the facts that I've been stating (I won offense TWICE, not through sheer luck),

Either you are better than anyone on any server ever or you won through luck. There is no strategy for winning Tol Barad as Offense. There are strategies for everything else but Tol Barad. This is not coincidence.

you're being incredibly elitist and insulting:

im coming across as elitist? :lol

 

[notsol337]

Like ive said. Offense can only win if Defense screws up.

And how am i being a jerk? By putting the :lol emote to the things you are posting? If you dont want that emote used stop saying hilarious things.

i dont believe you sorry. You are so wrong is embarrassing.

Rude. You should have said "I do not believe this because it does not fit in with my personal experience."

If you cannot see how the game is bad, i hope you have nothing to do with any game design ever.

This is fairly mean too! What if his ambition is to be a game designer? "I disagree with you so I hope you never get to have a career." It's a very improper attitude, especially considering that this is the internet.

Holy shit This is the strategy of someone who has only had the luxury of playing Defense. Hint: there is no strategy as Offense. You have to wait for Defense to mess up.

Twig's posts clearly state what he has and has not played. "Only played defense you don't know what you're talking about" is showing that you're too busy proving him wrong to actually consider his points. It's rude.

Now, I don't mean to be a jerk myself with this but it's hard to point out how someone is being rude without being a little rude myself and I do apologize for that! You have differing opinions. No big deal!

 

[water_wendi]

:lol

Okay.. you guys got me. Tol Barad is totally balanced and has no issues like what i described. All the threads everywhere about Tol Barad being a clusterfuck was just me trolling and is just my own personal experience and not something that all servers are reporting. In fact, Tol Barad works so well that i hacked Wow to give 1800 honor for Offense winners so it would appear that Blizzard themselves thought that winning as Offense was such a herculean feat as to reward almost half the honor cap for one win! im just a grinch like that.

 

[markot]

TB is broken >.< its extremely easy to defend, far too easy compared to how hard it is to cap.

You can just zerg in a circle from one to another as D and defend easily till times up.

But yeah, now its just lame ass win trading with a fight for the queue >_<

 

[notsol337]

:lol

Okay.. you guys got me. Tol Barad is totally balanced and has no issues like what i described. All the threads everywhere about Tol Barad being a clusterfuck was just me trolling and is just my own personal experience and not something that all servers are reporting. In fact, Tol Barad works so well that i hacked Wow to give 1800 honor for Offense winners so it would appear that Blizzard themselves thought that winning as Offense was such a herculean feat as to reward almost half the honor cap for one win! im just a grinch like that.

You actually are a giant jerk. Enjoy your high blood pressure because of the internet. I'm sorry that your life is filled with rage.

 

[water_wendi]

http://i52.tinypic.com/2s5xs8l.jpg[IMG]

You actually are a giant jerk. Enjoy your high blood pressure because of the internet. I'm sorry that your life is filled with rage.[/QUOTE]
You were serious? :lol i thought you were trolling me!

 

[Twig]

:lol

Okay.. you guys got me. Tol Barad is totally balanced and has no issues like what i described. All the threads everywhere about Tol Barad being a clusterfuck was just me trolling and is just my own personal experience and not something that all servers are reporting. In fact, Tol Barad works so well that i hacked Wow to give 1800 honor for Offense winners so it would appear that Blizzard themselves thought that winning as Offense was such a herculean feat as to reward almost half the honor cap for one win! im just a grinch like that.

This is the last thing I will say to you on the subject:

I don't care that you disagree with me. I really don't. Everyone has their own opinions, and in my opinion, Tol Barad is a lot of fun as it is. My issue is and will continue to be with the way in which you continuously insulted me just because I happened to have a dissenting opinion from the masses.

Just... calm down, dude.

 

[notsol337]

You were serious? :lol i thought you were trolling me!

I was serious. GAF is becoming really hard for me to read because it's nothing but "no u" and "you are an idiot if you don't have the exact same opinion as me."

I used to enjoy trolling here but now I can actually see that it's counter-productive.

I save my trolling for trade now.

 

[water_wendi]

:lol Thanks guys! This has been the hardest ive laughed in a long time!

 

[Rokam]

Tol Barad is a lot of fun as it is.

I see the problem. You're a masochist!

But anyways I really have to wonder what was going on in Blizzard's head with the honor change. The attackers already had a major incentive to win, because on most servers TB is generally held by the same faction most of the time. So getting to do the boss was a rare occasion. Win-trading is the only other thing that makes sense. Minus the fact that they are deleting win-trading posts on the boards.

First rule of Tol Barad, you don't talk about Tol Barad.

 

[Twig]

I see the problem. You're a masochist!

When it comes to PvP? Yeah, I kind of am.

It actually infuriates me when I see a high level alliance while I'm leveling and they don't kill me. ASSHOLES. ):<

 

[KJTB]

So I kind of hate the mmr thing...

Paladin friend and I went 6-1 in our little session today getting us up to 1400.... BUT OUR MMR IS 2350 WTF.

Can I please just fight 1400 rated teams and not 2350 bracketed players? Even when I hit glad in BC I never got that high :lol

And yes, I shouldn't be complaining because we're still winning... But this was supposed to be for fun though and every game is freakin intense and always so close to the wire that I'm fuckin screaming into my mic and taking it way too seriously :lol

 

[Trumpet909]

Alliance on our server has had Tol Barad for about a week straight. Hit exalted with those guys in no time, and almost have enough tokens for the drake. Those 3 dailies every win are very nice.

Now our server is win-trading for crazy honor.

 

[J-Rzez]

So I kind of hate the mmr thing...

Paladin friend and I went 6-1 in our little session today getting us up to 1400.... BUT OUR MMR IS 2350 WTF.

Can I please just fight 1400 rated teams and not 2350 bracketed players? Even when I hit glad in BC I never got that high :lol

And yes, I shouldn't be complaining because we're still winning. This was supposed to be for fun though and every game is freakin intense and always so close to the wire that I'm fuckin screaming into my mic and taking it way too seriously :lol

Yeah, things are a little wonky yet with the rating system apparently. And yes, that's the outcome of it, you get into some crazy matches. I guess that's the fun though (to some people lol).

I didn't understand it as we won 3 games in a row, went up to ~2000, then lost one, dropped to 1800, then won two more and now we're sitting at 1400. So yeah, things are a little, umm, "off" atm. :lol

 

[NameGenerated]

Eh, my TB experience has been pretty bad.

First time I went Horde was attacking and we took it easily. This was like 4 days after Cata came out, so lots of new 85s who probably didn't know what was going on, myself included.

Then I went to probably 10 to 15 straight as defender and Horde won every single time. In fact, the first time I ever saw Horde lose on defense was only 3 days ago. I went to an attacking one and we lost that. So I basically have no attacking experience, but in my defending experience it seems even a clump of defenders (who are on offense) can't take on a giant group that rez in the center and just all go to one node.

 

[KJTB]

Yeah, things are a little wonky yet with the rating system apparently. And yes, that's the outcome of it, you get into some crazy matches. I guess that's the fun though (to some people lol).

I didn't understand it as we won 3 games in a row, went up to ~2000, then lost one, dropped to 1800, then won two more and now we're sitting at 1400. So yeah, things are a little, umm, "off" atm. :lol

Yeah it's really weird. We stopped at our loss and our mmr somehow didn't go down -_-. It's bitchin to see 2350 and all but it's not like my team rating is anything that impressive hahaha

 

[mcrae]

so i finally bound my abilities to keys. combined with a spec shift (havent played destro in oh, 4 years) this is gonna take some getting used to. on the off chance that there are some destro warlocks posting here, im gonna post my binds and see where i've probably gone wrong in case anyone have better advice.

Q: soulburn
E: incinerate
1:soulfire
2:immolate
3:conflagrate
4:chaos bolt
5: shadowflame
mwheeldown:corruption
mwheelup: fel flame

so the only spells i use that arent bound are
demon soul (2mincd)
bane of doom (1min)
curse of elements (5min)
drain soul
shadowbolt (30 second debuff)
lifetap
deathcoil

any advice? my mouse only has 3 buttons

 

[KJTB]

so i finally bound my abilities to keys. combined with a spec shift (havent played destro in oh, 4 years) this is gonna take some getting used to. on the off chance that there are some destro warlocks posting here, im gonna post my binds and see where i've probably gone wrong in case anyone have better advice.

Q: soulburn
E: incinerate
1:soulfire
2:immolate
3:conflagrate
4:chaos bolt
5: shadowflame
mwheeldown:corruption
mwheelup: fel flame

so the only spells i use that arent bound are
demon soul (2mincd)
bane of doom (1min)
curse of elements (5min)
drain soul
shadowbolt (30 second debuff)
lifetap
deathcoil

any advice? my mouse only has 3 buttons

Use shift variants of the buttons you don't click for the buttons that you do.

So for example Shift 1, shift 2, shift 3, shift 4, shift 5, shift q, etc...

 

[hamchan]

I for one am taking advantage of the Tol Barad win trading while I still can :lol

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

The odds are already stacked against the attacking force. In fact, they're stacked in favor of the defense more so than we would like at this point. We're looking to address this in an upcoming patch so that defending Tol Barad doesn't feel like there's virtually no fear of loss.

Blue Post

Don't know if this was posted before but Twig was obviously right.

 

[markot]

3 towers down and 2 cap points would be more fair.... it would mean that people actually defend towers instead of just zerging nodes.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

We just took down Magmaw.. First night on him too. And of course Omintron Defense..

So awesome

 

[Scrow]

so i finally bound my abilities to keys. combined with a spec shift (havent played destro in oh, 4 years) this is gonna take some getting used to. on the off chance that there are some destro warlocks posting here, im gonna post my binds and see where i've probably gone wrong in case anyone have better advice.

Q: soulburn
E: incinerate
1:soulfire
2:immolate
3:conflagrate
4:chaos bolt
5: shadowflame
mwheeldown:corruption
mwheelup: fel flame

so the only spells i use that arent bound are
demon soul (2mincd)
bane of doom (1min)
curse of elements (5min)
drain soul
shadowbolt (30 second debuff)
lifetap
deathcoil

any advice? my mouse only has 3 buttons

you should also bind abilities to R, F and X. just rebind "Reply" to T or Y. you could probably bring Shadowflame down to R so it's easier to reach than 5, and put something less important on 5.

since you're using Q and E for abilities i assume you also rebound strafe to A and D.

also consider using cast sequence macros to bundle multiple abilities into one button/key. for example, i'd put corruption and curse of elements together in a macro on mousewheeldown.

macro for that would be something like this:

#showtooltip Corruption
/castsequence reset=5 Corruption, Curse of Elements

this casts corruption on first press, then CoE on second press, Corruption on third press and so on. the reset parameter specifies in seconds how long it takes for the macro to reset to the beginning of the castsequence. so for example if you press the macro once it will cast Corruption, wait 5 or more seconds then press the macro again it will cast Corruption.

http://www.wowpedia.org/MACRO_castsequence

 

[Dresden]

I still haven't gotten into Tol Barad. Got in a party with friends and they all ended up not getting in too. I think I jinxed them.

 

[Einbroch]

So, after getting fucking destroyed in the arena tonight, I'm rerolling. Can't stand how shitty Discipline Priests are. I just spam flash heal for 20 seconds until I'm dead. Can't do anything.

Suggestions? I want to heal. I like healing. And I'm much more interested in PVP than PVE.