-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
World of Warcraft |OT2|
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
- Status
Argh, Cata OT got closed while I was typing. So this is RE: tol barad being terrible, and Guild levelling being terrible.
Tol Barad was a clusterfuck before the win trading. On Mal'ganis horde got it like twice a week in the middle of the night, because it's just THAT badly designed. Enforced side-equality raises the question of why it isn't just a battleground in the first place - it's not like having a 'world pvp' zone that only 20 people get to participate in once every 2.5 hours is good design on any level. It's well established that it's unbalanced even if the sides were equally skilled, which because it's not instanced and has enforced equality they never are. The dailies lock out 15 minutes PRIOR to the battle, completely inexplicably, then they change after every one, meaning to optimize your rep/dailies/tokens you need to keep running back every time you fight over the zone just to see if more jail dailies popped up.
In fact, you keep spewing bullshit about the zone, I'd love to hear a single redeeming quality about it. It should be a standard battleground, and they can just put their daily quest 'hub' zone anywhere else in the world. The notion that it's a world pvp zone is a farce when you have to queue for it anyway, all it does is make baradin hold incredibly inconvenient to run and...that's it! SWEET!
As we like to say in guild "This is completely enhancing my fun right now". Blizz should consider that statement when they design things like this. I should note ALL of these issues were raised in beta, they just didn't fix them.
Guild levelling: Clearly simply broken. Designed at the speed a reasonable guild would level while doing guild achieves in beta, now horribly slowed down so that every guild with a medium population will cap at the exact same rate. THEN xp slowed down so we didn't hit our daily cap within 10 seconds (it still only takes 5 minutes though), yet it now hurts smaller guilds who at this rate will probably take nearly a year to cap their guild out. Again: This does not enhance fun at all. They should have simply left the guild achievement experience in and accepted that hardcore guilds were going to cap out very quickly due to already having credit for so many. Having guild achievements do absolutely nothing at all has sapped any incentive for them. I get that achievements don't 'do' anything for players either, but I don't think anyone is attached to their guild achievements like they are the player ones. My guild is FULL of achievers (one of our warriors would have been the first person int he world to have every achievement in the game if not for rng), and still nobody can be concerned with most of the guild crap, very few are actually 'fun' and most are grinds, but people should at least have incentive to go do guild instance runs in the old world or something. Basically they shot their whole levelling system in the foot just because they got pissy that people were going to be level 10 the first week (After which it would have slowed down significantly anyway).
Then there's rep. Taking this long to even use the rewards we've earned is ridiculous. We unlocked our Dark Phoenix mounts the second week, I won't be able to buy and use it for 3 more months, when it's no longer even remotely prestigious. That seems like a good design choice.
Guild achievement advancement in general: Clearly tuned incorrectly. Look at the glyph achieve and try to convince yourself they bothered to change that when they completely reworked glyphs. Or look at how many flasks it takes to make the 25 man cauldron achieve: You will have every guild perk related to cauldrons for probably 8-10 months BEFORE you can even get the cauldrons made if you have your guild make/supply 5 flasks per raider 5 raids a week. Still takes almost an entire year of that to make enough. This is just bad design.
Twig said:
Tol Barad was a clusterfuck before the win trading. On Mal'ganis horde got it like twice a week in the middle of the night, because it's just THAT badly designed. Enforced side-equality raises the question of why it isn't just a battleground in the first place - it's not like having a 'world pvp' zone that only 20 people get to participate in once every 2.5 hours is good design on any level. It's well established that it's unbalanced even if the sides were equally skilled, which because it's not instanced and has enforced equality they never are. The dailies lock out 15 minutes PRIOR to the battle, completely inexplicably, then they change after every one, meaning to optimize your rep/dailies/tokens you need to keep running back every time you fight over the zone just to see if more jail dailies popped up.
In fact, you keep spewing bullshit about the zone, I'd love to hear a single redeeming quality about it. It should be a standard battleground, and they can just put their daily quest 'hub' zone anywhere else in the world. The notion that it's a world pvp zone is a farce when you have to queue for it anyway, all it does is make baradin hold incredibly inconvenient to run and...that's it! SWEET!
As we like to say in guild "This is completely enhancing my fun right now". Blizz should consider that statement when they design things like this. I should note ALL of these issues were raised in beta, they just didn't fix them.
Guild levelling: Clearly simply broken. Designed at the speed a reasonable guild would level while doing guild achieves in beta, now horribly slowed down so that every guild with a medium population will cap at the exact same rate. THEN xp slowed down so we didn't hit our daily cap within 10 seconds (it still only takes 5 minutes though), yet it now hurts smaller guilds who at this rate will probably take nearly a year to cap their guild out. Again: This does not enhance fun at all. They should have simply left the guild achievement experience in and accepted that hardcore guilds were going to cap out very quickly due to already having credit for so many. Having guild achievements do absolutely nothing at all has sapped any incentive for them. I get that achievements don't 'do' anything for players either, but I don't think anyone is attached to their guild achievements like they are the player ones. My guild is FULL of achievers (one of our warriors would have been the first person int he world to have every achievement in the game if not for rng), and still nobody can be concerned with most of the guild crap, very few are actually 'fun' and most are grinds, but people should at least have incentive to go do guild instance runs in the old world or something. Basically they shot their whole levelling system in the foot just because they got pissy that people were going to be level 10 the first week (After which it would have slowed down significantly anyway).
Then there's rep. Taking this long to even use the rewards we've earned is ridiculous. We unlocked our Dark Phoenix mounts the second week, I won't be able to buy and use it for 3 more months, when it's no longer even remotely prestigious. That seems like a good design choice.
Guild achievement advancement in general: Clearly tuned incorrectly. Look at the glyph achieve and try to convince yourself they bothered to change that when they completely reworked glyphs. Or look at how many flasks it takes to make the 25 man cauldron achieve: You will have every guild perk related to cauldrons for probably 8-10 months BEFORE you can even get the cauldrons made if you have your guild make/supply 5 flasks per raider 5 raids a week. Still takes almost an entire year of that to make enough. This is just bad design.
cuevas said:
I don't understand why they wasted so much time with the new-old content. Personally, they should have just cleaned it up a lil, adjust xp requirements, and called it a day. I'd rather they focused the vast majority of their time and effort on endgame content, raids, professions, pvp for endgame. Probably art assets as well as I'm really disgusted with them recycling models for everything anymore. Tier sets are supposed to be class defining, instantly making a class recognizable. Since wrath though, Hunter/Druids have been looking like Rogues... Clothies all looking like one another, and the same with DK's looking like Wars/Pallies, and so forth. So freaking lazy and stupid of them. At the 11th hour they neutered too much stuff, like arch, guild leveling, etc, and a short while before that they axed the path of the titans stuff.
I'm enjoying Cata, I think it's tied for GOTY for me, but it just like the title it's tied with, has ultra-glaring and marring flaws. Flaws that Blizzard can easily address, but they don't, and that's out of sheer laziness as they never-ever gave even an excuse why they do some things they do.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
I love my end game and only have one character I play. With that said there are plenty of people who love just leveling characters and still spend a large portion of their time in old zones. You can't blame them for wanting to please those people.J-Rzez said:
I could live with just the new raids, bgs, and new talents since the only reason I go outside of those after leveling is to herb.
keeblerdrow
Member
J-Rzez said:
If I had the time or the will, I would compose a bizarro J-Rzez post from the reality where they just touched up everything in the old world and focused on end game content and you were bitching about how they did a half-assed job with the world people inhabit in favor of making content that only people interested in raiding will ever see.
charlequin
Banned
Retro said:
Kind of what I'm saying is that my philosophical position is that an expansion that brings the totality of WoW up to Wrath standards is an evolution of WoW, just maybe not in the areas you wanted to see prioritized. The amount of content is so much huger than previous expansions (I think the cited number was 1500 new quests in Wrath vs. 4000 in Cataclysm or something) and a lot of it does try to take things from Wrath and use them more (the cinematics in Cata aren't all great but there's a lot more effort to integrate them into the overall experience than in Wrath.) To me, that seems like it's basically laying the groundwork to follow up with the next expansion that focuses solely at the top end and brings the highest standards of vanilla WoW to bear on all its new zones (and it'll probably have a new class, etc. etc.)
I mean, you're obviously free to disagree with this philosophical position and you shouldn't pay to subscribe if you're not having fun! The downside of this approach is that some people aren't going to get much value out of the lower-level content and the expansion will feel empty to them. That seems like a pretty reasonable complaint to me. But
Aren't the raids and heroics so far already dramatically better than the equivalents in Wrath, though? I mean, we'll see how people feel as the expansion wears on, obviousl.
Yup, I can certainly see why that's a problem.
Other than the quest credit (the best idea WAR had and one Blizzard really should rip off and implement) I guess I'm not feeling any of these as particularly significant issues or ones that can't continue to improve. In what I've done in the old world revamp (1-20 and 40-60 so far) I've pretty much always had the remote quest stuff trigger when I expected it. I'm not really sure what kind of "customizable" UI would really fill a useful gap between the current defaults (plenty good for 99% of non-levelcapped people) and the intricate and elaborate addons that power users and raiders will always find use in no matter how flexible the base game's UI gets.
Don't know why, necessarily. Vanity isn't a tremendously efficient use of budget in comparison to fight content, but it's an area WoW's improved a lot in since day one and one I do honestly expect them to put a large chunk of effort into eventually.
I'll be honest, I find the idea that LotRO or Star Trek Online is "competition" for WoW (in an economic sense) pretty laughable. I mean:
This basically makes it clear that you're talking about people who are economically marginal, one-tenth-of-one-percenters who are both by far the most insatiable and demanding customers and who number far too few to be worth dedicatedly pursuing. Vanguard has less than 40,000 subs.
(I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being one of these players or that nobody can make money appealing to them, but it's not a constructive strategy for a mass-market game.)
It's certainly true that people who want to play things that are in the broad sphere of MMOs or MMO-esque things have more choice than ever, but literally every success story in this field has found success by fundamentally distinguishing themselves from WoW: either being free-to-play, or covering an entirely different genre, or breaking away from Diku mechanics altogether.
We'll see how it comes out, I guess. I was pretty enthused about WAR for a while before release and that was pretty clearly a mistake. To me, enthusiasm about Guild Wars 2 (a sequel from a developer who proved their ability to build around a new paradigm in MMO-esque games) makes a lot more sense than enthusiasm about Rift (a game with bad art and a fairly underwhelming elevator pitch from a developer who have never released a game before.)
charlequin
Banned
J-Rzez said:
Because the old-world focus helped Cataclysm outsell Wrath by 500k units on day one and pushed WoW to the first new subscriber high-water-mark they've hit in about two years. I mean, regardless of whether it was a good idea gameplay-wise, I think it's pretty clear they chose this path to try to make more money and the early data suggests to me it was probably successful.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
He is right though. The amount of content in Cata is the same as the previous xpacs but half of it is 1-60. Its nice being able to see the new world but after 2 days of /played youve seen it all 1-60 and its time to focus on the end game.keeblerdrow said:
TBC had 15 dungeons 60-70. Wrath had 12 dungeons 70-80. Cata has 7.
TBC had Halaa (and the other zone pvp.. Hellfire, Zangarmarsh, and Terokkar) and Arenas. Wrath had Wintergrasp. Cata has Tol Barad
TBC had 14 factions and two you could choose between. Wrath had 13 factions and two you could choose between (although not as important as Scryer/Aldor). Cata has 6 factions and none that are selectable.
All of these numbers include what came at launch so i didnt include stuff like Magisters Terrace or Ashen Verdict.
It just seems like theres less to do at max level with Cata. People have said there are more raid opportunities than any xpac but theres four raids right? Didnt TBC have 1) Gruuls Lair, 2) Karazhan, 3) SSC, 4) Mags Lair, and 5) TK open at launch? Iirc only Hyjal and BT were locked out at start. Maybe im wrong though.. its been a long time.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
You had to get attuned and to do that there were big gear checks. Only mag,Kara, and gruuls were open.water_wendi said:
charlequin
Banned
water_wendi said:
I don't think that's right at all. Based on the information provided by the developers as well as just looking at the content, I think it's pretty clear that Cata has less top-end content than either previous expansion but much more overall. From a pure effort perspective, the old world revamp is probably twice or more the amount of content that 80-85 is.
I think that's relatively accurate purely by the numbers. 5 raids with 23 bosses on launch in TBC, 4 raids with 14 bosses on launch in Cata. (But two of those were hidden behind crazy attunement chains and whatnot.)
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Oh yea.. youre right. T4 was between those. T5 was Kael and Vashj.cuevas said:
Very possibly right. Its a hard number to guess because some old zones have barely been touched, some completely redone, and some have about 50/50.charlequin said:
edit: something i just thought of. You know how they added maps to instances? i wonder what they did for LBRS :lol
Multiple sections of map. It's a decent map.
How anyone cans ay there isn't anything to do at 85 goes against my very fiber of being. The heroics, I wish there were more, but they're there. And the raids are the absolute best first tier raids we've ever gotten. Some of these fights are epically awesome.
How anyone cans ay there isn't anything to do at 85 goes against my very fiber of being. The heroics, I wish there were more, but they're there. And the raids are the absolute best first tier raids we've ever gotten. Some of these fights are epically awesome.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
The ones to get into ssc and the eye were alright, 4 people getting to finish the hyjal quest was ridiculous.charlequin said:
Nope!TheYanger said:
I agree. Cataclysm, without a doubt, has far more new content than either TBC or WOTLK. Sadly, it's mostly boring phasing nonsense and crappy cutscenes and other jibber jabber I just don't give a fuck about. I wish I did. I really do. Just... ugh. It's so bad. Ugh.charlequin said:
water_wendi said:
The maps are awful. You get, like, two rooms on a map, and then a whole bunch of gray area for "things on other floors". You can see them here: http://www.wowpedia.org/Blackrock_Spire
I hit max level and spend a lot of my WoW time on-call, which means I'm not running dungeons in PUGs because I don't want to get called and have to AFK mid-boss. So, I make my own fun in large part by solo running instances I missed out on back when I played Vanilla (basically the entire endgame.)
Today I ran BRD/LBRS/UBRS and grew to absolutely hate the in-game maps for being generally confusing. Multi-floor dungeons are hard, but it's impossible to have any idea how rooms connect by looking at the maps in-game.
On the upside, something weird glitched and I managed to unlock the LBRS Guild Run Achievment for my guild. Now I have to convince people to let me create fake raids, so I can poke around in MC, AQ, and Kara.
Alex
Member
There's also a lot of things that need to be considered on the side though, raw numbers only go so far.
BC didn't have split raid sizes, BC didn't have hard modes, BC was also an extension of vanilla in several parts in that it never attempted to actually tune this content for large portions of the classes and specs, and the overall content in them is nowhere near as good as what we have now.
Hell, early BC relied more on classical MMO (ie; bullshit) tuning that made most of the raid content simple but nearly impossible from a sheer numbers perspective. I'm not going to bag on BC raiding too much though, good times in SSC and Karazhan despite some of the stupid but Cataclysm really mops up on end game, there's no question it's the best.
BC didn't have split raid sizes, BC didn't have hard modes, BC was also an extension of vanilla in several parts in that it never attempted to actually tune this content for large portions of the classes and specs, and the overall content in them is nowhere near as good as what we have now.
Hell, early BC relied more on classical MMO (ie; bullshit) tuning that made most of the raid content simple but nearly impossible from a sheer numbers perspective. I'm not going to bag on BC raiding too much though, good times in SSC and Karazhan despite some of the stupid but Cataclysm really mops up on end game, there's no question it's the best.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
charlequin said:
The jist of it is that the quality of life change was also seen as the game speeding up which put WHAT those features were allowing you to do even lower than what they were really done FOR (ie, grindin' badges to earn the right to wear gear that far outstrips anything in them, not for the dungeon experience themselves). It also made it easier for asshole behaviour to get away unpunished by fellow gamer social weapons.
As for the second paragraph, just what I was mentioning in the 3rd example is EXACTLY what is needed: a little research, self-discipline, and slowly increasing danger to teach and test players, both world questing and the leveling dungeons so we don't have a repeat of Wrath's waterslide dumping new people into the highest dungeons and raids, or vets blowing thru them like it's a gnawing cold hell to be tolerated AGAIN of their own volition.
The ice cream analogy: It's seen as if I'm advocating taking the ice cream away, whereas I'm wishing the game had it back as a treat and didn't have it on the menu for every meal every day of the week leaving people fat and blase.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
What?Alex said:
edit: oh for raids.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Was thinking heroic sorry.Rapstah said:
Just hit 78 after finishing up Zul. I'm not sure what the best / quickest option would be. Hit up Sholazar for the lower hp mobs and 20ish k xp per quest or just goto icecrown. I haven't gotten a quest that says i should head to storm peaks so i've ignored it for now :lol
Where should i look at heading for horde?
Where should i look at heading for horde?
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
i would go to Icecrown. Good density of quests there, you can open up the Argent Tournament dailies, and people frequent the zone so its not a ghost town.evlcookie said:
cuevas. PhD.
Member
Can you get the quests to go to cata zones yet?evlcookie said:
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Need to be 80 to grab Cata quests.cuevas said:
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Man getting to Dalaran and Shatt to do the fishing/cooking dailies is quite the hassle now.
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Alex said:
thanks blizz for nerfing herb spawns. Whiptail is almost impossible to farm because it barely grows anywhere, heartblossom is super rare, and Twilight jasmine is nowhere to be seen due to phasing issues. This is worse then when we relied on rng frost lotus.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
funkmastergeneral said:
wut? I can farm 10 stacks of Twilight in like 90 minutes on a high pop server.
Alex
Member
Seriously, I don't give a shit about Volatile Life compared to Lotus, I could always get a Lotus or two while gathering my mats for my much more reasonable flasks and if I couldn't? Big fucking deal, they weren't THAT bad on my server.
Now I get to fly around, scrounging for 4-5 stacks of near impossible herbs (largely whiptail, as you say) just to get one nights raiding done. It's back to Classic/BC in this regard.
But on the plus side, I have a zillion Volatile Life! Oh joy!
Now I get to fly around, scrounging for 4-5 stacks of near impossible herbs (largely whiptail, as you say) just to get one nights raiding done. It's back to Classic/BC in this regard.
But on the plus side, I have a zillion Volatile Life! Oh joy!
funkmastergeneral said:
Whiptail is scarce in Uldum, but it's everywhere in Tol Barad. Heartblossom is EVERYWHERE in Deepholme, just flying through the zone once on my medium pop server nets me 2 stacks of herbs. I don't really go for Jasmine as much, since it takes a little longer to sell in the AH. Are you putting in enough effort? Herbalism is a great money maker and it's effortless.
can somebody take a stab at explaining what blizzard was thinking with the way Nerubian Archaeology dig sites work? I cleared every dig site in NR 3 FUCKING TIMES.... and still not a single site showed up. No idea how im going to get the rest of the 130 fragments i need for this stupid fucking puzzle box that does nothing.
Won said:
I was referring more to the quality, not the quantity. There may be 5000 quests in Cataclysm, but how much of that is just retrofitting previous quests with new text? It seems like a lot of zones (Arathi Highlands, Hinterlands) are pretty much only revamped if you read the quest text. Sure, there's new stuff in there too...
I'm just saying, between the last major content patch of Wrath and the pre-launch patch of Cata was almost an entire year to just generate content. I'm not saying it's easy, but surely something went wrong if you have terrific zones like Silverpine with terrible zones like Arathi within 10 levels or so. And that's completely ignoring the development time from Wrath's launch on ward.
It just feels really weird to go from something cleverly devised and epic-feeling to what amounts to a very minimal upgrade so quickly, and it makes me wonder what the hell happened.
charlequin said:
I'm not ignoring the rest of this statement, just snipping it to the essentials to save on space.
I think we may just have to agree to disagree here. I feel like Cataclysm, while bringing the old content up to Wrath-levels (with certain glaring omissions), doesn't take the game any further. I don't consider that an evolution so much as it's the natural response to 6 years of learning what works and doesn't in an MMO. An evolution would be the best of Wrath-level questing applied to the old world.
Not to bring it up again, but look at Silverpine. It's literally a huge, sweeping storyline that utilizes phasing, auto-updating quests, vehicles, and interesting quest mechanics beyond "Go here and kill 10 bunnies" (though there are a few cases of that, they generally pass quickly because you're also doing other, related objectives). The same applies to the 81-85 zones; they're amazing, like the best parts of Wrath's quest design applied to an entire expansion... except in those aforementioned gaps.
That is the kind of sweeping evolution that Cataclysm should have delivered uniformly. Instead, there are giant holes where you barely feel like things have changed at all, and I'm wondering what the hell they were doing since there isn't really that much. 5 new zones (less than Northrend), no new class to balance, no new profession to implement. There are even chunks of the old world that are just... big empty flat spaces in between mountains, as if they couldn't be bothered to get their maps right in anticipation of people flying all over them.
There's a lot in Cata, to be sure, but I'm left wondering why it couldn't all be at least as good as the better parts of Wrath. So much of it still feels as outdated as the character models. I don't expect the entire world to be 100% brand new (that'd be unreasonable and unfair to the developers), but it's kind of hard not to feel disappointed when you set foot in another barely-changed zone and the same old quests with different names and text greet you.
charlequin said:
I might be misreading this, but... what? The approach I am suggesting would add more value to the lower-level content and make the expansion feel bigger. The problem is that the low-level content has large chunks where the quality drops to pre-TBC levels, where you can almost feel the hand of Blizzard going "change that text there, move that rock there, add a flight path, move this quest over here and.... let's call it a day!"
It just seems like Blizzard had not only the opportunity but plenty of time to make all of Cataclysm amazing, but in the end only a few zones in the old world were revamped to the full potential of Wrath, and that makes the areas that were barely touched quite diminished.
charlequin said:
As I said before, I didn't even want to bother with heroics, so I can't say how amazing they might get. If they're simply amplified versions of the regular dungeons, than they're good, and certainly an improvement over Wrath's dungeons. Still a bit too linear for my tastes, but that seems to be the direction WoW has been headed in for a while now so it's not really a surprise. There are fewer than previous expansions have launched with, but Blizzard has said they're planning to add at least one 5-man with every major content launch... of course, that's 3-4 months from now at least, and it sounds to me like most people are already tired of the dungeons. That's second hand info so I can't attest to it, nor will I comment on raids because that's simply content I have decided I don't want to engage in. I can't complain about that one way or another.
And yes, I realize that by deciding "I don't have the time to raid" limits how much of the content I see, that doesn't automatically mean that my opinion of the content I do utilize is lessened. At least not in my opinion, but I'm sure others will disagree.
charlequin said:
Well, quite a few MMOs allow for fully movable interfaces along with parts you can turn on and off if you want them. All of that is handled by Addons currently, and based on the sheer number of times UI addons come up in this thread, that's hardly what I would call an acceptable solution. It's something WoW has desperately needed for years, even if the power users and raiders will always grab for addons, they'll be just that; additions to the UI, not entire UI replacements like everyone is using now.
charlequin said:
Again, this was just on the list of 'crap I'd like that others MMOs have done and Blizzard hasn't bothered to consider'. People ask about it at Blizzcon and the response is almost always disrespectful or mocking. Clearly people want it, even if it's not an efficient use of budget. Archeology does nothing but reward vanity items, and it was added in.
charlequin said:
Well, I was referring to what people I personally know and talk to have done. A large part of my former guild went to LotRO and are having a blast with an alternative to WoW. I didn't want to make generalizations or outright lies about the number of people leaving the game, so I cited examples I happen to know are true; the people I know.
Very few of them play WoW anymore, maybe 3 or 4 of our original 30-40 players. Again, most went to LotRO, some went back to Vanguard, quite a few are just treading water until something else comes out. My specific examples may be economically marginal, but that's one example out of how many? I'm sure WoW is doing just fine, but I'm also saying... there's other games out there and WoW is no longer universally considered the 'best', simply the 'biggest'. The people I know don't look at WoW as being the greenest pasture anymore (and not all of that is Blizzard's fault, a large part of it is the community).
charlequin said:
Exactly. WoW has been successful because they've managed to polish, advertise and retain their players. The fundamental mechanics of WoW are essentially the same as every other Diku game going back past EQ to MUDs. Cataclysm was their chance to polish the last 6 years of aging away and instead, it's still very much the same game for the most part. Having missed this opportunity (in my opinion), the game just isn't delivering on it's potential and other games look like they probably will. For me, personally, I've decided that WoW just isn't going to do it for me anymore. I can't be alone in this sentiment and as time goes on, the number of people leaving will eventually have an impact.
Will it be enough impact to 'kill' WoW? No, but it will swell the numbers of other MMOs and make them better products in turn.
charlequin said:
Well, I'm no where near as interested in Rift as I am for GW2. The "Manifesto" video really spoke to me and if they can deliver even half of what they're suggesting I will definitely check it out (well, it's free to play so I'm sure to check it out regardless). Rift is still fresh in my mind since they've had the Betas recently. Despite all the potential stumbling points you mentioned, it's actually pretty good. Again, not a "WoW-killer", but nothing ever will be... but a solid alternative with a lot of really nice mechanics.
But yeah, I'm itching for details on Guild Wars 2.
krypt0nian
Banned
Honestly, I hit Tol Barad and I'm swimming in herbs for flasks. Thank the gods I found that easy out.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Quick question! I already have Cataclysm but only have a few days left on my time. Can I purchase the original WoW box and use the 30-days that comes with that? Or is that only for new accounts and what not? It's a much better deal than just buying a time card.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Tol Barad is the place to get Whiptail. ive made 20k off farming it casually.Narag said:
i think thats just for new accounts.FunkyMunkey said:
Have they ever stated as to why we can't change the color of our gear with some sort of dye? I remember back when the game first launched, and I went to the tailoring vendor I believe, and so all of those pink and black dyes and was totally pumped to color my gear, then my friend crushed my dreams. :lol
If we have to use recycled art, at least let us color it how we want.
If we have to use recycled art, at least let us color it how we want.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
water_wendi said:
Aw
, are you sure?keeblerdrow
Member
Yes.
- Status