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[Evil Benius]

This. Good pally healers, that I shall now classify Evil Benius as, glyphs beacon and uses it in this smart fashion. Without glyphed beacon, it does cost mana, which should be mentioned. Our healing style is slightly different though, i use divine lights generally when i've got my guardian up to get back on top (which, considering it consumes 5 heals, using your strongest heal is best), and use holy lights as my main heal. I also reforge into spirit so that i can chain holy lights without my mana dying.

I've gotta agree with Cuevas though, the opinion of yan is semi skewed since he didn't play a pally at level 85. Its just like me saying Pally heal is so much funner than priest healing, and i've only played a priest to level 60. Pallys have 3 main heals + the HP heals, but you forget to mention that we have Hands that we also rotate (sacrifice on tank during massive damage, salvation so that dps can major burst if necessary, protection to save aggro'd rogues, mages, etc.) I should also mention some pally healers who think running in and Crusader Striking for HP is a good idea (personally, stupid as hell idea in serious circumstances cuz it will get you killed by aoe's being dropped on melee).

We all have fun.

I totally forgot that was based on a glyph since it was one of the first I got based on how I instantly knew how amazing it would be.

The reason I have been focusing on using Divine Light is that our raid seems to take a bunch of damage right now (not sure if it is gear, bad strats, or players just not getting out of fire) so I am not really wasting any mana. Also I am mainly tank healing in our raids so I am usually covering for big hits that Divine Light seems to work well for. Since I am not currently having mana issues I am fine with my current rotation, but I definitely know it might need to change over time based on future encounters so I will not be stubborn about it. Once we are not fighting for our lives on these raid bosses I might also play with my itemization and start moving from crit to haste just to see the impact it has. Like I said though healing is definitely not our weak area right now since our two main healers are probably some of the best geared people in the raid group.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

random question: what's the cheapest way to get the expansions? can you buy them used?

 

[Kinitari]

So I logged in after not playing WoW for nearly 2 years, SO many things are different.

Like... for example, my main characters professions. For some reason, they are different. I figured, I got hacked right? But all my money is still there, all my equipment (my bags were empty though... but my bank was left untouched). And I got replaced with high level mining and herbalism - which implies that person was on my character for a LONG time. It would I guess explain the empty bags - but why did I keep all my equip? Why did my money stay? Why were my other characters untouched?

Weird.

 

[Flib]

random question: what's the cheapest way to get the expansions? can you buy them used?

Unfortunately, there is no real way to buy them cheaply, as you can't buy them used. They were on sale around the holidays for cheap, but they're back up in price. It's kind of ridiculous how much they still charge for burning crusade.

I'm interested in your general opinions on the game at this point, Rez, since you're a pretty active user all over the forums. Always interesting when people who play a lot of other games randomly jump in to WoW. What class/spec did you roll?

 

[mcrae]

So I logged in after not playing WoW for nearly 2 years, SO many things are different.

Like... for example, my main characters professions. For some reason, they are different. I figured, I got hacked right? But all my money is still there, all my equipment (my bags were empty though... but my bank was left untouched). And I got replaced with high level mining and herbalism - which implies that person was on my character for a LONG time. It would I guess explain the empty bags - but why did I keep all my equip? Why did my money stay? Why were my other characters untouched?

Weird.

well the character is useless to the hacker if it has no equipment. and you cant sell soulbound items. i imagine they botted on your account and then sold off the gold or transferred it to another character. maybe they didnt think to look in the bank? and they decided to leave you with the gold you had when hacked to be nice? i dunno. weird they didnt change your pass

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

He's not anymore. On our first few attempts he was until that screwed us over a few times. I was just listing the plethora of problems that have affected us.

I'm wondering what kind of tank class/spec he is. A weird example, and I think it's because of something to do with the boss mechanics/tables now, is the top theorycrafting paladin tanks are sitting on very low expertise and mastery because threat is insane and no longer an issue. It's to the point that even the misses are acceptable because once the hits do connect, the threat lead is so large a gap, they are able to then self heal or help out due to talenting/gearing away from threat and more into survivability. This is strictly speaking from the paladin side of the fence though.

 

[forgrim]

I'm wondering what kind of tank class/spec he is. A weird example, and I think it's because of something to do with the boss mechanics/tables now, is the top theorycrafting paladin tanks are sitting on very low expertise and mastery because threat is insane and no longer an issue. It's to the point that even the misses are acceptable because once the hits do connect, the threat lead is so large a gap, they are able to then self heal or help out due to talenting/gearing away from threat and more into survivability. This is strictly speaking from the paladin side of the fence though.

He's talking about the interrupt missing, not the actual misses affecting threat.

At least, that's what I got out of what he wrote.

And paladin interrupts are interrupts that are not relied on the raid.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

Yeah looking back over that makes more sense. I guess I was assuming a melee strike missing.

 

[Won]

God, how I hate it when the LFD gives me a dungeon in progress. -.-

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

God, how I hate it when the LFD gives me a dungeon in progress. -.-

The worst is the 40 minute DPS queue into a dungeon that is at or near the final boss. Sure, it's quick VP IF THE GROUP CAN FINISH, but I'm still gearing up, so missing out on all the rep, JP, and drops is a bummer.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Did Resto druids just get gimped further? From latest notes it seems Omen of Clarity now only procs on attacks and damaging spells. Boooooo.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Did Resto druids just get gimped further? From latest notes it seems Omen of Clarity now only procs on attacks and damaging spells. Boooooo.

What? That's huge if true. Tree of Life will lose a giant benefit, which is all those free spells from all those ticks!

 

[Flib]

Did Resto druids just get gimped further? From latest notes it seems Omen of Clarity now only procs on attacks and damaging spells. Boooooo.

You can still proc it off of lifebloom, which is what it should be mainly proccing off of anyway.

Specifically, you just need to spec into Malfurion's Gift, which isn't changing.

 

[Coldsnap]

I want to give Cataclysm a try. Although I see I cannot do a 10 day trial without having burning crusade? If I sign up for vanilla Wow trial can I then do the Cataclysm trial?

 

[Flib]

I want to give Cataclysm a try. Although I see I cannot do a 10 day trial without having burning crusade? If I sign up for vanilla Wow trial can I then do the Cataclysm trial?

The Cataclysm trial is the new zones and races, just giving the 10-day trial a try will let you get up to level 20 with all the new content.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Did Resto druids just get gimped further? From latest notes it seems Omen of Clarity now only procs on attacks and damaging spells. Boooooo.

Don't worry, DKs got slapped back to shitty tank status along with you.

 

[Flib]

Don't worry, DKs got slapped back to shitty tank status along with you.

And pallies just keep on being awesome with no changes in sight. Grrrr.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

And pallies just keep on being awesome with no changes in sight. Grrrr.

Yeah I was looking at the DK changes and thought "well, I guess it's ok since pallies were already the best tanks so god knows what kind of nerfs they got." Then I check and no nerfs. I don't know what is going through blizzard's head.

 

[Coldsnap]

The Cataclysm trial is the new zones and races, just giving the 10-day trial a try will let you get up to level 20 with all the new content.

Will I be able to do the worgen story line? That is mostly what I'm interested in.

 

[LukeSmith]

And pallies just keep on being awesome with no changes in sight. Grrrr.

They nerfed Holy Paladins some

 

[Sai-kun]

At least they nerfed Mix Master!

 

[Flib]

Will I be able to do the worgen story line? That is mostly what I'm interested in.

Nope, unfortunately.

And I was talking about pally tanks, who are pretty unrivaled right now.

 

[water_wendi]

The changes to Blood seem odd. Also wondering how the changes to the Ret mastery are going to be. 20% additional damage from strikes as Holy damage? Also nice to see the priest changes.. Shields absorb seemed really too low. It seemed to be gone in less than one attack. And wow at those Feral nerfs! Seems more than a bit overboard.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Using Holy Light is your problem since I rarely use that spell at all except if someone needs slightly topped off and Holy Shock is on cooldown. Divine Light is my main heal with using Holy Shock to build up Holy Power whenever it is up. Paladin healing is a lot of fun these days and I have been raid healing since release (Paladin healing since TBC release). I have to say the class is the best it has ever been as far as having an enjoyable experience. There are a lot of factors and decisions to juggle these days.

I agree with everything you said except for using divine light as your main spell. You can't use it in that fashion or you will go oom too quickly on long fights. Holy light is our most efficient spell if you look at amount healed per mana spent.

 

[moojito]

Yarr, pally tanking is awesome. Being able to use your 3 holy power for either single target threat (aloha 50k shield of the righteous crits!), aoe threat or self healing is great. I hope rather than nerf pallies they try and steer other tanks towards something similar, as it really makes tanking a lot of fun.

 

[Angry Grimace]

At least they nerfed Mix Master!

Do you know what a nerf is?

 

[Flib]

Yarr, pally tanking is awesome. Being able to use your 3 holy power for either single target threat (aloha 50k shield of the righteous crits!), aoe threat or self healing is great. I hope rather than nerf pallies they try and steer other tanks towards something similar, as it really makes tanking a lot of fun.

Either way, they aren't in line with the other tanks. Every tank was feasible at this point, but I'm worried that this will just throw things more out of line. Pally tanking may be fun, but it is overpowered. The only downside to them is that they don't have a reliable interrupt.

 

[No45]

Will I be able to do the worgen story line? That is mostly what I'm interested in.

Do the Undead 1-20 instead, it's fantastic. Particularly once you hit Silverpine.

 

[Evil Benius]

I agree with everything you said except for using divine light as your main spell. You can't use it in that fashion or you will go oom too quickly on long fights. Holy light is our most efficient spell if you look at amount healed per mana spent.

Exactly how long of a fight are you talking about since I have had zero issues using it in raids this way even ending some boss fights with 50% mana. Holy Light just does not provide enough healing for our tanks, they will be dead. Also it is not like I am letting other people cover for me, I am at the top of the charts for amount healed.

 

[Flib]

Oh, most of the bear ones are live, except for the beserk change, slight scaling reduction on mangle and the armor buff.

Since the armor buff is awesome, I'm fine with all that.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

Nope, unfortunately.

And I was talking about pally tanks, who are pretty unrivaled right now.

Possibly for now. But we all know this will change like every other class in this game over time. There was a time when Druids made fine tanks, then wrath came and no one wanted to wait for threat. DKs were the OP class, could tank, heal themselves with runic power instead of holy power, could silence etc, arcane mages did too much damage with too little effort. The ret paladin was OP for a bit too, but it gained a horrible stigma leading to a misconception of people rolling the keyboard instead of paying attention of fcfs.
As it stands now, paladins are still what they were probably meant to be, a utility class. Decent as DPS with some raid utility/hands/cleanse/side heals. As a healer strong heals, but not a ton of mobility, suited for tank heals, As tanks used to be great for AOE tanking but with the bringing back of emphasis on CC, and the huge cost of mana, plenty wont even consecrate any more. Blizzard is never going to be able to find a perfect balance with the classes in this game, but then again, im not sure they want to. We are still in the early stages of the game really, and a lot can/will change.

 

[ToyMachine228]

I'm wondering what kind of tank class/spec he is. A weird example, and I think it's because of something to do with the boss mechanics/tables now, is the top theorycrafting paladin tanks are sitting on very low expertise and mastery because threat is insane and no longer an issue. It's to the point that even the misses are acceptable because once the hits do connect, the threat lead is so large a gap, they are able to then self heal or help out due to talenting/gearing away from threat and more into survivability. This is strictly speaking from the paladin side of the fence though.

It happened to both or Warrior tank and our DK tank. Like I said we remedied the problem by having other interrupts. That was only one problem we ran into amongst the many on Maloriak. Our biggest problem is that the OT is getting crushed tanking 3 groups of adds. I spam Divine Light and 3 charge Word of Glory on him, Gift of the Naaru, and Holy Shocks in between and I just can't keep him up. He's at about 175k hp buffed.

As for Paladin healing, I see all the arguments in the thread. First of all, Paladin healing HAS changed a ton since I last played a Holy Paladin during Burning Crusade. And that said, I love it. We have a lot of tools now. Flash Heal, Holy Light, Divine Light, Holy Radiance, Cone of Gold as I call, Holy Shock, Beacon, then some other cool things from talents like extra healing on yourself when you heal others, haste procs from judgement, etc.

My style thus far has been to use Holy Shock whenever it's up, use Holy Light as my "main" spell for most healing outside of tank healing (Which I use Divine Light a lot for tanks), and then use 3-charge Word of Glory or Cone of Gold to either quickly heal DPS and switch back to tank healing or to help get the tank topped off again quickly. There's no cure all healing rotation. It depends on the fight and a million other things. The whole point of healing in Cataclysm is you have to be smart about which spells you're using and when you're using them. I haven't had many healing problems yet in Cataclysm outside of Maloriak kicking our asses right now. Not so much my fault though.

 

[forgrim]

It happened to both or Warrior tank and our DK tank. Like I said we remedied the problem by having other interrupts. That was only one problem we ran into amongst the many on Maloriak. Our biggest problem is that the OT is getting crushed tanking 3 groups of adds. I spam Divine Light and 3 charge Word of Glory on him, Gift of the Naaru, and Holy Shocks in between and I just can't keep him up. He's at about 175k hp buffed.

As for Paladin healing, I see all the arguments in the thread. First of all, Paladin healing HAS changed a ton since I last played a Holy Paladin during Burning Crusade. And that said, I love it. We have a lot of tools now. Flash Heal, Holy Light, Divine Light, Holy Radiance, Cone of Gold as I call, Holy Shock, Beacon, then some other cool things from talents like extra healing on yourself when you heal others, haste procs from judgement, etc.

My style thus far has been to use Holy Shock whenever it's up, use Holy Light as my "main" spell for most healing outside of tank healing (Which I use Divine Light a lot for tanks), and then use 3-charge Word of Glory or Cone of Gold to either quickly heal DPS and switch back to tank healing or to help get the tank topped off again quickly. There's no cure all healing rotation. It depends on the fight and a million other things. The whole point of healing in Cataclysm is you have to be smart about which spells you're using and when you're using them. I haven't had many healing problems yet in Cataclysm outside of Maloriak kicking our asses right now. Not so much my fault though.

We cool people call it the "flashlight"

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

Does anyone else think part of the problem with the class balancing might be because of the multi spec direction wow took? I get the convenience, but if you literally leveled a toon just for the purpose of one defined role, would the game be any better? Would people be any nicer in queues, would it force people to play their classes better?

 

[water_wendi]

Oh, most of the bear ones are live, except for the beserk change, slight scaling reduction on mangle and the armor buff.

Since the armor buff is awesome, I'm fine with all that.

Okay.. seeing the patch notes i can understand the changes to Feral. 10% less Rip and Rake dmg while Cat Mangle is now 460% and Shred is 450%. That seems alright.

Pain Suppression no longer dispelable. i knew that was a big problem.. nice to see it fixed.

 

[Flib]

Bear tanks were incredible in wrath, especially ICC. They weren't incredibly common, but they did not have threat or survivability issues.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Exactly how long of a fight are you talking about since I have had zero issues using it in raids this way even ending some boss fights with 50% mana. Holy Light just does not provide enough healing for our tanks, they will be dead. Also it is not like I am letting other people cover for me, I am at the top of the charts for amount healed.

idk pretty much every fight? Using both somewhat equally seems like the way to go, ignoring holy light is going to hurt you in the long run. Look at your overhealing with divine light compared to holy light in your next raid.

Pretty much every paladin is going to do most healing in pve right now with how OP we are.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Does anyone else think part of the problem with the class balancing might be because of the multi spec direction wow took? I get the convenience, but if you literally leveled a toon just for the purpose of one defined role, would the game be any better? Would people be any nicer in queues, would it force people to play their classes better?

I hated constantly respeccing my warrior, rogue and druid way back when. I firmly believe that any detriment that multi-spec brought to the game does not outweigh the positives.

 

[Weenerz]

I used to love bear tanking, but on my 81 alt, trying to tank a 5 man without CC sucks because of swipe having a cooldown. I probably just need to adjust my playstyle, but it still sucks having to scramble so much. The other tank classes have it a little easier imo.

 

[Flib]

I used to love bear tanking, but on my 81 alt, trying to tank a 5 man without CC sucks because of swipe having a cooldown. I probably just need to adjust my playstyle, but it still sucks having to scramble so much. The other tank classes have it a little easier imo.

There's this little thing called Thrash...

 

[moojito]

I used to love bear tanking, but on my 81 alt, trying to tank a 5 man without CC sucks because of swipe having a cooldown. I probably just need to adjust my playstyle, but it still sucks having to scramble so much. The other tank classes have it a little easier imo.

81 = thrash = good times!

There's a cast sequence macro you'll be able to get from wowwiki that combines the two into one key with a 6 second reset or whatever. Swipe, then thrash, then demo roar/one lacerate for berserk procs and swipe is back up. Aoe isn't a problem for bears so much after 81.

Also, you'll want to get into the habit of casting thorns on yourself before an aoe pull. You can glyph it down to a 25 second or so cooldown, and it does something like 2k damage to every attacker, per attack. That's pretty handy.

Also, glyph entangling roots so that it's instant cast and there's one cc for you, at least.

 

[Flib]

You shouldn't even have to use thorns, also Thrash is higher priority than swipe.

 

[moojito]

It also costs more rage, which is often at a premium in the first seconds of a pull.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

I hated constantly respeccing my warrior, rogue and druid way back when. I firmly believe that any detriment that multi-spec brought to the game does not outweigh the positives.

I should have said it better, as i do get the spec changes within a certain tree due to talent changes/nerfs/buffs, but I really should have said Hybrid classes. For example a paladin can essentially fill 3 roles, a druid as well, then you have dps/heal classes as well. Certainly there isn't going to be say a CC only class or a bard type class, but I guess I was wondering if they isolated roles/trees more, would it make things better or worse. I suppose it would clear up a bunch of who gets brought to what raid, and who rolls on what gear ms/os but at the same time, it would force one to roll more toons, and to spend more time on each of them. Obviously wow has gotten way more towards the casual thing as years go by, and that's fine. I'm just wondering if the game would be in a better or worse place if it hadn't done this.

 

[Macattk15]

Ugh 20% nerf to Heroic Strike.

We weren't even high in PvE damage as it is. Did they nerf any of the higher classes (SV Hunters, Warlocks, Unholy DKs etc.) down to lower levels? I mean I saw nerfs but I don't exactly know how its going to effect the damage output on single target bosses.

The other night on Argaloth 25 ... Heroic Strike was my 2nd most damaging ability behind Melee

 

[Evil Benius]

idk pretty much every fight? Using both somewhat equally seems like the way to go, ignoring holy light is going to hurt you in the long run. Look at your overhealing with divine light compared to holy light in your next raid.

Pretty much every paladin is going to do most healing in pve right now with how OP we are.

I do use it if damage output is low and DPS is getting hit, but I pretty much focus on our tank and the other healer(s) take care of the raid with me using holy radiance from time to time. My overheal is not bad at all because I know how much I need to heal someone for and how much my Divine Light heals for. If amount healed is greater than damage then I obviously use a different spell which is usually Holy Shock or Word of Glory if my holy power is full. Like I said in my original post if this strategy does not work on later fights then I will change things up, but for now it is working fine. I have read enough people saying that they use Holy Light a lot more than I seem to so that will be the first change I make if I find myself going OOM on a new boss.

 

[Won]

Ugh 20% nerf to Heroic Strike.

We weren't even high in PvE damage as it is. Did they nerf any of the higher classes (SV Hunters, Warlocks, Unholy DKs etc.) down to lower levels? I mean I saw nerfs but I don't exactly know how its going to effect the damage output on single target bosses.

The other night on Argaloth 25 ... Heroic Strike was my 2nd most damaging ability behind Melee

That's why they are nerfing it. It isn't supposed to be your 2nd most damaging ability behind melee.
Looks like they buffed some talents in return for it.

 

[Macattk15]

That's why they are nerfing it. It isn't supposed to be your 2nd most damaging ability behind melee.
Looks like they buffed some talents in return for it.

I raid as Fury not Arms. What they buffed helps me 0, so my DPS will only go down.

Oh boy Mastery buff. How exciting ... now my 1 ability that makes use of it will hit a smidgen harder when it is actually able to be used.

 

[Weenerz]

Oh, well I guess I need to train my druid for Thrash.

 

[dimb]

# The dwarven racial trait Stoneform now reduces all damage taken by 10%, rather than increasing armor by 10%. It also increases the dwarf's size when used.

Fuck, that is completely awesome.