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World of Warcraft |OT2|
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
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Does anyone know the logic behind the faction tabards not working on Outland instances? While levelling I've taken Org, Trolls and UC to exalted and was planning on starting TB. Noticed in a few instances last night that I didn't get any rep so had a quick search and found that those tabards are useless outside of Azeroth.
Even worse, I thought I'd head over to Thrallmar then to gather rep that is relevant to BC.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=24004
Seriously? The in-game description differs from that (says all rep gains from dungeons will be applied to Thrallmar, same as the others), but what's the point of that if I need to have maxed rep to buy the fucking thing? :s
Even worse, I thought I'd head over to Thrallmar then to gather rep that is relevant to BC.
http://www.wowhead.com/item=24004
Seriously? The in-game description differs from that (says all rep gains from dungeons will be applied to Thrallmar, same as the others), but what's the point of that if I need to have maxed rep to buy the fucking thing? :s
I'm ashamed to admit I seem to have dropped my Warrior in favour of my Mage. The queues are longer (though not much, less than 5 minutes as a rule for me), but it's so much more relaxing knowing I can make mistakes and not be shouted at. I'm too nice to be a tank.Tacitus_ said:
I'm talking about raids, we are eventually going to out gear heroics.Tacitus_ said:
If you want to pug raids, by all means. But when working with a guild there are fewer tank spots than healer and DPS spots.
You'd have to at least take turns a lot, thus maximizing your DPS spec.
DeathNote said:
I think I'll tank on all three as main spec, but all three classes also have DPS specs available. That being said, I don't really intend on raiding - I think my tolerance for organized play will cap out at heroics like it did in TBC.
I also kind of like the increased responsibility of tanking. I feel more occupied when I'm spending encounters trying to keep every mob on me or managing adds in bosses. Suffice to say, after 84 levels of tanking (and spending a good deal of that time in dungeons) I'm still not tired of it in the slightest.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
thefil said:
Mages don't really pick up for awhile. Just getting the furthest I've ever gotten a mage (and I've rolled 3-4 at this point) to 64. None of my other mages lasted past 30.
Paladin tanking is fun and mindless, I can tell you, even though mine is only 40ish. DK tanking is fun in a different way that definitely is somewhat more challenging with more resources to manage and cooldowns that may not be as intuitive. Warrior tanking is also fun - so much mobility, just lacking a large, static AoE ability like Consecration or DnD, but it's made up for (somewhat) with other abilities that have lower CDs.
CarbonatedFalcon said:
I definitely found paladin tanking mostly mindless, but the real fun I've had with it is in the special enemy/boss encounters where you have to react properly. For example, in Blackrock Caverns pulling a boss through fire or in The Stonecore dodging Shatter.
*edit* For the record, WoW is way more fun when your party is too weak to faceroll a dungeon.
fought maloriak on friday in 10 man..... REALLY frustrated. took us about 1.1 hours on him and I swear we would have had him down on the next pull (last pull we had him under 1M) but two of the raid were incredibly sick and it was like 10:30pm their local time so they had to call it. But seriously, had we had one more pull we would have had Maloriak in under 10 pulls.
then saturday went to the two drakes in Twilight instead. Apparently the guild leader asked us to not do maloriak in 10m as we would then be able to get both chimaeron and maloriak in 25m this week yet. anyway, two drakes were down in under 10 pulls also in basically the same 10 man.
then went to do chimaeron in 25m yesterday... don't quite get that decision considering half of the raid knew maloriak like the back of our hand. anyway, chimaeron REALLLLLYYYYY exposed our deficiencies in healing. took a few pulls for everyone to get the hang of massacre but we did just fine. But our healing core was never able to gets us to survive feud. took like 3-4 pulls after everyone got the hang of massacre to even survive the first feud. after like 10+ pulls we were never even close to surviving the second feud.
very disappointing considering we probably could have downed maloriak in like half the time we spent on chimaeron last night.. oh well. and now come reset we are probably going to just work on the drakes instead. bah...
oh, cauterize on chimaeron is kind of a pain in the ass. I mean it's nice I suppose.. gives you a second chance at survival, the problem is because you only have to stay above 10K, as soon as cauterize kicks in I basically go right to 42K, then 28K, then 14K, then dead. So I basically have to not only heal myself 43K in that time span (like normal), but basically I have to be able to pop a 52,001 heal on myself to counter both the cauterize AND get myself above 10K before the next massacre. It's basically a healthstone or evocation plus hopefully either a lightwell or a very attentive healer.
edit - I play a mage.. and umm.. it's fun'ish. As some others have said, it's most fun when there are mechanics involved. For instance me and the other top mage /roll on maloriak and omnotron to see who gets to spellsteal their buffs. and as a fire mage, it's like 85% boring, but every once in a while you get impact combustion up full (with all three dots) and spread it around to like 4-6 mobs and watch your meters top out above survival hunters and destro locks. I imagine it's like that with most classes though. Yeah, when you can wrath-attack heroics and stuff it's mostly just pressing the same 3 buttons over and over. but before those heroics were laughable and now in raiding there is thankfully many more mechanics to keep things fun. actually many of the mechanics now involve constantly moving, which as a fire mage makes things really fun as you constantly have to be moving in precise directions while casting your spells. so it's continually having wasd pressed while getting to some keys with extra fingers or grabbing other action buttons with the mouse. pretty fun actually.
then saturday went to the two drakes in Twilight instead. Apparently the guild leader asked us to not do maloriak in 10m as we would then be able to get both chimaeron and maloriak in 25m this week yet. anyway, two drakes were down in under 10 pulls also in basically the same 10 man.
then went to do chimaeron in 25m yesterday... don't quite get that decision considering half of the raid knew maloriak like the back of our hand. anyway, chimaeron REALLLLLYYYYY exposed our deficiencies in healing. took a few pulls for everyone to get the hang of massacre but we did just fine. But our healing core was never able to gets us to survive feud. took like 3-4 pulls after everyone got the hang of massacre to even survive the first feud. after like 10+ pulls we were never even close to surviving the second feud.
very disappointing considering we probably could have downed maloriak in like half the time we spent on chimaeron last night.. oh well. and now come reset we are probably going to just work on the drakes instead. bah...
oh, cauterize on chimaeron is kind of a pain in the ass. I mean it's nice I suppose.. gives you a second chance at survival, the problem is because you only have to stay above 10K, as soon as cauterize kicks in I basically go right to 42K, then 28K, then 14K, then dead. So I basically have to not only heal myself 43K in that time span (like normal), but basically I have to be able to pop a 52,001 heal on myself to counter both the cauterize AND get myself above 10K before the next massacre. It's basically a healthstone or evocation plus hopefully either a lightwell or a very attentive healer.
edit - I play a mage.. and umm.. it's fun'ish. As some others have said, it's most fun when there are mechanics involved. For instance me and the other top mage /roll on maloriak and omnotron to see who gets to spellsteal their buffs. and as a fire mage, it's like 85% boring, but every once in a while you get impact combustion up full (with all three dots) and spread it around to like 4-6 mobs and watch your meters top out above survival hunters and destro locks. I imagine it's like that with most classes though. Yeah, when you can wrath-attack heroics and stuff it's mostly just pressing the same 3 buttons over and over. but before those heroics were laughable and now in raiding there is thankfully many more mechanics to keep things fun. actually many of the mechanics now involve constantly moving, which as a fire mage makes things really fun as you constantly have to be moving in precise directions while casting your spells. so it's continually having wasd pressed while getting to some keys with extra fingers or grabbing other action buttons with the mouse. pretty fun actually.
KernelPanic
Member
Having a ton of fun playing my enhance shaman, and I'm always #1 in DPS so far at avg. iLVL 325 so far. Hope they don't nerf them too bad.
I could never quite get a handle of their rotation/priority system in WOTLK. Seems easier to maintain consistent DPS than my Rogue.
So far it's shocking how quickly people leave a group after 1 wipe even when it's usually due to bad luck or a simple mistake not because the group sucks and I'm not even at heroics yet.
I could never quite get a handle of their rotation/priority system in WOTLK. Seems easier to maintain consistent DPS than my Rogue.
So far it's shocking how quickly people leave a group after 1 wipe even when it's usually due to bad luck or a simple mistake not because the group sucks and I'm not even at heroics yet.
KernelPanic
Member
thefil said:
I've had tanks leave for no apparent reason, we just started the instance, group is doing well and the tank just leaves.
I suspect they look at Recount and don't like the numbers (they want to faceroll the instance).
Shame I am having fun playing melee DPS and the talk I am hearing from the game and my guild is range >>>>> melee for raids, not that I have time for raids ATM.
KernelPanic said:
This has always been true, unfortunately. Bosses have AOE or debuffs that hurt if you don't spread out. With only so much space around a boss for melee to attack from, it becomes a giant hassle. This is without the fact that dodging attacks almost always necessitates moving out of melee range. I played a rogue in TBC raids, and I was miserable the whole time.
if someone leaves while the heroic seems to be doing well, more than likely it's a) a more difficult heroic and b) recount isn't high enough.
as for leaving after one wipe... it depends. remember one thing though.. it might not look like to YOU that anything major was going on and it was just bad luck... but to an experienced player it might look like something completely different. For instance, on the first boss if I see one or more DPS dying from not moving out of the way or picking up adds, and I look at their armory sheet and see they don't have this heroic achievement, I am going to worry about more wipes. if a tank isn't understanding things like facing the worm in stonecore or picking up the spiders, I am going to totally worry about him handling Ozzruk. If people aren't getting the chain/slam mechanic of ogg in BRC, there is no way they are going to handle the rest of the mechanic-heavy fights without wipes in the rest of the instance.
Now this is VERY unfair to people learning the instances, and to be more fair to them I will say it totally depends on my time availability. As mentioned, I am already having to commit to over half an hour in the queue. I am hoping for a 30-40 minute heroic run making my total time commitment on this to over an hour. If things look like they are going poorly, I could be looking at a two to two and a half hour commitment from the time I enter queue. If I stick with it largely depends more on what kind of time I have available than how successful this group is going. If we wiped 2-3 times on the first boss and 2-3 times on the second boss, you know it's going to be at least a 2.5 hour run probably. If I have that much time, we're probably already an hour plus into the instance with maybe an hour or more left to go.. but if I leave at this point it's going to be a minimum of an hour plus in queue and with a perfect group in another instance.. so stick with it. but as I said.. if once I am in the instance and we wipe twice on the first boss before dropping them, and I have to leave in an hour... I'll probably just grab my JPs now from the first boss and drop. Yes I lose out on my JPs, potential heavenly shards and slim slim slim chance of loot (really only need a wand still.. any other upgrade will be less than a 4% upgrade), but I'm not going to get the VPs or chaos orb I REALLY need anyway, because I am going to have to log before we get to them as I wasn't counting on a 3 hour random.
So it depends. slightly unfair to people still learning the heroics and new to them, but I like to think I curb that unfairness by also putting my time in occasionally on those exact same heroics with people learning them when I have the time to commit..
as someone who may be in this situation, my suggestion to you is to look for sites that have good writeups of the boss encounters for the dungeon you're in, and during a downtime in the dungeon quickly glance through the write up. None of the heroic bosses are really "omg there is so much here I have to do". almost everyone is really only one or two mechanics an individual role usually has to care about.
as for leaving after one wipe... it depends. remember one thing though.. it might not look like to YOU that anything major was going on and it was just bad luck... but to an experienced player it might look like something completely different. For instance, on the first boss if I see one or more DPS dying from not moving out of the way or picking up adds, and I look at their armory sheet and see they don't have this heroic achievement, I am going to worry about more wipes. if a tank isn't understanding things like facing the worm in stonecore or picking up the spiders, I am going to totally worry about him handling Ozzruk. If people aren't getting the chain/slam mechanic of ogg in BRC, there is no way they are going to handle the rest of the mechanic-heavy fights without wipes in the rest of the instance.
Now this is VERY unfair to people learning the instances, and to be more fair to them I will say it totally depends on my time availability. As mentioned, I am already having to commit to over half an hour in the queue. I am hoping for a 30-40 minute heroic run making my total time commitment on this to over an hour. If things look like they are going poorly, I could be looking at a two to two and a half hour commitment from the time I enter queue. If I stick with it largely depends more on what kind of time I have available than how successful this group is going. If we wiped 2-3 times on the first boss and 2-3 times on the second boss, you know it's going to be at least a 2.5 hour run probably. If I have that much time, we're probably already an hour plus into the instance with maybe an hour or more left to go.. but if I leave at this point it's going to be a minimum of an hour plus in queue and with a perfect group in another instance.. so stick with it. but as I said.. if once I am in the instance and we wipe twice on the first boss before dropping them, and I have to leave in an hour... I'll probably just grab my JPs now from the first boss and drop. Yes I lose out on my JPs, potential heavenly shards and slim slim slim chance of loot (really only need a wand still.. any other upgrade will be less than a 4% upgrade), but I'm not going to get the VPs or chaos orb I REALLY need anyway, because I am going to have to log before we get to them as I wasn't counting on a 3 hour random.
So it depends. slightly unfair to people still learning the heroics and new to them, but I like to think I curb that unfairness by also putting my time in occasionally on those exact same heroics with people learning them when I have the time to commit..
as someone who may be in this situation, my suggestion to you is to look for sites that have good writeups of the boss encounters for the dungeon you're in, and during a downtime in the dungeon quickly glance through the write up. None of the heroic bosses are really "omg there is so much here I have to do". almost everyone is really only one or two mechanics an individual role usually has to care about.
KernelPanic
Member
thefil said:
In WOTLK our guild only had 2 melee regulars but that had more to do with the numbers, our rogue was frequently #1 and he's just a good player. Not to mention very few of our raiders played melee. But I don't recall any discrimination against melee.
"Please reroll/respec to range DPS" like I do now.
Range DPS have to move as well, my Boomkin lost a lot of DPS on fights with lots of movement and only really put up impressive numbers when I could stand still a lot.
notworksafe
Member
It's not a "logic" thing. It's a "that code doesn't exist" thing. They work in lv80 Northrend dungeons because those dungeons already have code in them to apply rep based on tabard. Outland dungeons don't have code in them already that gives rep based on a tabard so that would have to patched in to them.No45 said:
BC tabards were a reward for having maxed rep, not a tool for getting rep in a dungeon. I'm in Outland now so I checked the Thrallmar tabard and it didn't get any wording added to it about giving dungeon rep, so not sure what you saw.No45 said:
Oh yay, cleared Bastion of Twilight. Cho'gall was a somewhat surprising pushover, requiring only a couple of hours to get down (spread over two days, 3rd pull on our second day got the kill.
(the corpse disappeared the second we got ready for our photo op :lol)
Tank specs are still quite rare so if you come across as even half competent you can propably get an invite to a 'normal' raiding guild. Don't take this as downplaying dualspeccing for DPS.
(the corpse disappeared the second we got ready for our photo op :lol)
Tank specs are still quite rare so if you come across as even half competent you can propably get an invite to a 'normal' raiding guild. Don't take this as downplaying dualspeccing for DPS.
I'm starting to see why this game could be dangerous for your health. I spent the entire weekend playing this thing :/
Anyways, almost level 40. I finished doing the quests on Southern Barrens (which by the way I LOVED that place) and now I'm in a swamp full of undead.
Thank you guys for recomending me to go minning and herbalist for my first character. I went from 10G to 600G in 24 hours. Maybe it's nothing compared to what you get later but it's great money for me right now.
So far so good. I think blizzard got me with this one and probably will update to cata soon
Anyways, almost level 40. I finished doing the quests on Southern Barrens (which by the way I LOVED that place) and now I'm in a swamp full of undead.
Thank you guys for recomending me to go minning and herbalist for my first character. I went from 10G to 600G in 24 hours. Maybe it's nothing compared to what you get later but it's great money for me right now.
So far so good. I think blizzard got me with this one and probably will update to cata soon
Alex
Member
I don't think tanks are rare at all for a raiding environment. In fact, I think there's kind of a problem in that it's a dead end archetype at the moment and that's part of the reason LFD queues are a mile long for DPS (and even fairly long for healers now).
Most guilds roll start-up with their tanks already set, or recruit them from within if they ever need to, very limited spots, I've seen plenty of posts where people who were interested in tanking could not find any slots in raiding guilds at all.
Most guilds roll start-up with their tanks already set, or recruit them from within if they ever need to, very limited spots, I've seen plenty of posts where people who were interested in tanking could not find any slots in raiding guilds at all.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
Alex said:
Yeah I'm finding it very difficult to find a guild where I can jump in and not be a bench player. My tanking gear is at 350 ilvl but when you only need 2 tanks for both 10 and 25 man, it's tough to find open spots.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Alex said:
It wouldn't necessarily be hard to find tanks, but to find good, experienced tanks is another story. For tanks, Gear is always important, but a skilled tank can turn a situation around.
The other problem with tanks and raiding is the scaling you get from 5 mans to 25 mans (10 mans it isn't so bad.)
In a 25 man, for any given fight, you'll have 2-3 tanks max (aside from Heroic Halfus at the moment where 4 is viable.), sometimes just 1. Tanks take up only 12% (with 3) of a raid's spots compared to 20% in a 5-man. That's a very large discrepancy.
The other thing about the dungeon finder is that for the most part, geared/skilled tanks (healers to an extent as well) won't want to jump in with complete randoms even if the queue is instant. If you're one of 3-5 rostered MTs or OTs in a 25 man guild, there will almost always be guild people to run with, and it's simply not worth the headache of rolling the dice when you don't have to.
Dungeon Finder tanks in general are going to be one of the following:
a) Grouped with someone else they know/trust (be it guild member or not)
b) Undergeared/Not Overgeared
c) Unguilded
d) Running it for a specific piece, or just grinding out the daily random and had no one else available
tanking is like that coveted job at apple or MS. it's hard to do, hard to get into, but once you get in you're set for life. actually being recruited into a guild is easy... but yeah... you'll be sitting a WHOLE lot until farming comes along and the other 2-3 MTs are already geared. best thing to do in this case is dual spec fury and be brought along occasionally as DPS.
the best "easy peezy" role at this moment for someone wanting fast queues and good raid guild viability is healing. shit.. we would take possibly any decent dedicated healers that threw themselves at us this second. and as was pointed out, healing fills out the raid roster much better than tanking. only problem is in the world of cata, healing power vs. health pools is so grossly outweighed that you're going to be looking like a jerk until the guild gears up a bit and stuff can survive a bit more... read my previous post about chimaeron.. our guild healers are on the verge of tears (not really.. but maybe..) because we're grouping 25 guys up in a single spot and then saying "you guys have to heal everyone up to full... for like 15 seconds straight continuously"
either way you're looking at decent heroic queues... just remember though... whatever role you pick (including DPS), heroics will hardly keep their reputation for ever as people get geared, and eventually those queues will be the same as they were in wrath. I think it's been about two weeks since I was actually in a pug that failed, or even wiped excessively, in a dungeon.
the best "easy peezy" role at this moment for someone wanting fast queues and good raid guild viability is healing. shit.. we would take possibly any decent dedicated healers that threw themselves at us this second. and as was pointed out, healing fills out the raid roster much better than tanking. only problem is in the world of cata, healing power vs. health pools is so grossly outweighed that you're going to be looking like a jerk until the guild gears up a bit and stuff can survive a bit more... read my previous post about chimaeron.. our guild healers are on the verge of tears (not really.. but maybe..) because we're grouping 25 guys up in a single spot and then saying "you guys have to heal everyone up to full... for like 15 seconds straight continuously"
either way you're looking at decent heroic queues... just remember though... whatever role you pick (including DPS), heroics will hardly keep their reputation for ever as people get geared, and eventually those queues will be the same as they were in wrath. I think it's been about two weeks since I was actually in a pug that failed, or even wiped excessively, in a dungeon.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Finally geared for raids; really just need a couple rings, and I can just buy those to speed things up. I've only done one thing with guildies - a horrific Stonecore heroic run, my first trip there. Ozruk owned me, and eventually the guild brought in the raid tank and made me dps lol. Since then I've mastered the fight as well as the other heroic stuff.
From what I understand we basically have one dedicated tank, the MT. The others kind of rotate depending on who's available. It won't be hard for me to get in and prove myself; I MT'd Ulduar hard modes and ICC with my old guild and this new one features many folks who know my reputation as a solid tank. In short, I should have a very good shot at being the second MT/off tank.
From what I understand we basically have one dedicated tank, the MT. The others kind of rotate depending on who's available. It won't be hard for me to get in and prove myself; I MT'd Ulduar hard modes and ICC with my old guild and this new one features many folks who know my reputation as a solid tank. In short, I should have a very good shot at being the second MT/off tank.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
borghe said:
Yeah, healers have it easy since compared to tanks, whose proportions of the group scale down, healers scale up (in 10s if you need to 3 heal a fight and definitely in 25s.)
Right now is a weird spot to get started raid tanking. On one hand, most everyone is still wearing mostly heroic blues with a few reputation epics or BoE epics. So on a gear level, it's still fairly even and there aren't large hurdles there. However, the counterpoint to this is that older, more successful guilds won't be caring about gear so much (past this minimum threshold) and will be looking for tanks (and other players) with an eye towards past experience.
I can't really say how I got into 25-man tanking which is the role I prefer, but I did just sort of fall into it, a little. Basically I was in a guild that grew up from 10s to 25s and downed some hard modes in Wrath. Without separate lockouts now for the two raid sizes, I'm not sure how I would suggest someone to get into the 25-man scene as a tank, besides to hang on as DPS for awhile and pick up pieces as an offspec, which may someday be needed.
notworksafe
Member
Blizzard say they are "looking into" adding rep tabards to those dungeons, but just ask J-Rzez how well their "looking into" a dance studio is going.No45 said:
ToyMachine228
Member
Second night of Cho'Gall attempts for my guild will be tonight. We have the mechanics down no problem, but our DPS is coming up short. I don't know if we're going to end up two-healing it to get it down or what.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Bisnic said:
Not only that, but once you're 85, if you go back to old zones, it's straight money and rep for quests. MMmmmm
For the Lunar Festival yesterday, there were a bunch of people trying to summon Omen. A human mage summoned it, and I immediately taunted it to start tanking. From there, a bunch of people started attacking it (you don't need credit for killing it to get the blessing), but I didn't have a healer the entire match. I was actually kind of surprised it was so easy, but also surprised that an 84 Orc Warrior kept dying when he tried tanking it.
It took a bit of time, as Omen IS marked as a raid boss, but tanking with no healing was far easier than I expected (being 85 help significantly), but it was also super hilarious to see 40's-80's dying instantly in its wake (mostly because they were bad at their jobs).
funkmastergeneral
Banned
Dizzy-4U said:
Raw minerals are more useful for leveling professions like mining and jewelcrafting. I'd imagine bars would only be good for engineering and blacksmithing.
does anyone know if Blizz has talked about the second content patch yet? I know in the second we're going into sulfuron spire, but didn't know if there were any plans after.
borghe said:
I was getting there, my mana was becoming an actual point of contention. I have never OOM during a raid yet but was getting close.
I try to explain that raid healing is ok, but all it takes is one or two people to lose their situational awareness and take a shitload of damage standing in some kind circle of doom.
Then the heals I need to pump into that person takes a huge chunk of my mana away before I revert back to the aoe heals.
It all gets easier once everyone knows the fights but it can get stressful.
Throw in that pallies seem to have unlimited mana and let my nerd rage continue
funkmastergeneral
Banned
borghe said:
speaking of chimaeron...It's not all up to the healers. DPS need to know, and use, all available defensive cooldowns. It was quite enlightening to me while my guild worked on chimaeron and my guilds main healer asked all dps to link their defensive cooldowns to him in a whisper, and only half of the people knew all they could do to save their own ass. Also having a paladin or priest use their cooldowns is amazing. That pally cooldown that reduces damage to the raid by 20% or the priest golden circle of life thing are awesome.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Dunlop said:I was getting there, my mana was becoming an actual point of contention. I have never OOM during a raid yet but was getting close.
I try to explain that raid healing is ok, but all it takes is one or two people to lose their situational awareness and take a shitload of damage standing in some kind circle of doom.
Then the heals I need to pump into that person takes a huge chunk of my mana away before I revert back to the aoe heals.
It all gets easier once everyone knows the fights but it can get stressful.
Throw in that pallies seem to have unlimited mana and let my nerd rage continue
As a tank, I find it very frustrating when, because I'm right up in the crotch of the boss, I'm standing in some circle of doom without knowing it. I feel for the healers when they're thinking "god dammit you dumb tank get out of that crap".
To be honest, I'm just thankful I HAVE a healer. Some healers are so bad I feel like I'm just healing myself.
charlequin
Banned
Dizzy-4U said:
WoW's economy is bottom-up compared to the real world.
In reality, raw materials are cheaper than finished goods because finishing them requires putting work and value into them -- when you buy a chair, you're actually buying the raw materials plus the labor used to convert them into a chair.
In WoW, crafters actually benefit from crafting -- they get skill ups, they get master procs, they learn new recipes, they contribute to achievements, etc. As a result, for everything but the absolute most desirable crafted products, crafting a raw material into a finished product actually removes value from it (by using up its potential for skill-ups, etc.)
In addition, nowadays a lot of the trade goods are more valuable because they can be used by multiple professions: ore can be smelted or prospected, herbs can go into potions or inks, etc.
Generally speaking, for a craft recipe to add value to the cost of the raw materials, it needs to produce something that is hard to get and use up some resource that isn't simply convertable directly to gold -- e.g. Chaos Orbs from running heroics or daily cooldowns -- or it has to be so hard to find that the crafters who know it can keep supply low, or both.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
thetrin said:
The few times I've tried tanking Omnitron so far (got PuGed for it), I found it difficult to tell when the blue puddles were under the one boss since those bosses are super squat and the area of their feet is slightly larger or just about the size of the puddles in the first place.
Gah.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
CarbonatedFalcon said:
In Halls, when tanking the trash mobs before Isiset, I sometimes can't see the beam from the portal because EVERYTHING IS WHITE AND SMOKY.
Same goes for not being able to see the casting circle for Erudak's Shadow Gale. His corpulent knees and feet are often in my way.
I have my buddy who's a rogue constantly shouting at me about where shit is so I can avoid it before it even touches me.
Yep, that's how I'm looking at it. The guild's been around for a long while - a splinter guild, originating from one of the first on the server (which is itself one of the first servers!). Since around the end of TBC. I joined up near the end of vanilla (before the split), but they've all essentially been playing since the game came out, and been through worse than this.thetrin said:
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
charlequin said:
This - unless a specific recipe is rare or limited in some way, it's not really adding value, and is in fact often devaluing the raw materials (mainly being ore and raw herbs.) Especially now when people are still skilling up professions. A few months down the line this might not be the case so much, but for now it still is.
It takes more effort/time to gather a stack of ore or herbs than it does to press the button to prospect the ore and then press another one to cut a gem.
High level crafting is mainly limited right now by Chaos Orbs which are BoP. In later tiers (as has been in the past) there will be some other type of crafting material only accessible via raids or Valor Points.
Another limited material right now is Maelstrom Crystals for enchanting, but that's another story - taking more epic crystals than ever before to completely enchant a character, and having no profitable way to make them now outside of DEing raid epics, since heroic end bosses don't drop epics this tier, even though they probably will next tier, not to mention current epic Valor Point epics will be purchasable with Justice Points, so you will be able to just buy relics for 700 JP and DE those.
I digress a bit though.
Two types of points:thefil said:
- Justice Points - gained from killing heroic bosses and completing heroic instances. You'll be bathing in them within a week.
- Valor Points - gained from your first random heroic every day and downing raid bosses at level 85.
There are essentially three levels of items currently viable at level 85:
- Untiered heroic gear (item level 346) - drops from heroic bosses and is buyable with justice points.
- Tier 11 (item level 359) - buyable with Valor Points and also obtainable from tokens that drop from certain raid bosses.
- Tier 11.2 or 11.5 or whatever you want to call it (item level 372) - obtained from upgrading normal tier 11 gear with tokens that drop from heroic raid bosses.
As the next content patch hits with tier 12, everything will be shifted down a vendor, causing Tier 11 to be sold from the Justice Point vendor. You will probably still need tokens for the 372 stuff.
- Status