Fantasy Final
Member
I love my DK. iLevel is 334 and I can do 10k dps on unholy spec. Frost is overused and overated, too much people are using it...and it's not as fun as unholy.
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World of Warcraft |OT2|
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DeathNote said:
4 Callings (classes) and iirc 9 souls (specs). They're not all listed on the website yet, but for example I'm pretty sure I saw "Bard" soul for rogues when I was playing it, which wasn't listed on their site just yet. The system "recommends" what you should consider using soul wise together, but you're free to make what you want. Like I made a Pyromancer-Warlock-Necromancer. The "root" system that gives you "extra" abilities per point put into the tree is brilliant too, so you have to think how far up you want to go in a tree to get certain abilities up there, as well as the "root" abilities to boot. Easily the best talent tree system in MMOs. You can make so many different meaningful builds. Which is the opposite Blizzard just did dumbing down said experience, severely limiting your options and thus making "cookie cutter" specs even more prevalent. I'd get into more impressions but that's not for this WoW thread.
This PURE vs HYBRID stuff again? My main's a Hybrid, and I believe Pure classes should do more DPS than me, period. I have yet another alternative route to get accepted, via going tank for example. Look at the other stuff Pure's have to go through, like the queues which are from a larger pool of players now, but the queue times are far greater than they ever have been... they're really-really bad for a pure right now.
Sure, pure's have more utility, but all they can do is DPS so their roles are locked in, no reason to punish them. Even if it's just one tree, they should each have a single spec that's in the top four DPS, period.
Fantasy Final
Member
The massive Howling Blast nerf is also not good for frost DK.Vestal said:
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Regarding Fire vs. Frost for mages - Frost is more consistent, and not as reliant on the RNG of crit rating to do good dps as Fire is. As gear scales upwards, and crit is more abundant, Fire will only get better, while Frost will start to be left behind, unless something is changed balance-wise. Fire also does superior AoE between Blast Wave, Flamestrike, Living Bomb, and DoT spreading with Impact.
As for Unholy DKs - haven't been specced Unholy in a long while, and mostly it's because I tend not to enjoy pet classes that much. Pets just add another element of control that I don't enjoy having to deal with (and sometimes they have stupid AI).
I may try it out again at some point, but with my current gear setup, it's not viable for me. I recently purchased a Soul Blade for 22k (though I'm considering not holding on to it, as I haven't equipped it yet), but I've been on the road for DW DPS pretty much since I finished leveling - I was excited for it since strength one-handers were first announced. If those still didn't exist, I'd probably be Unholy now, regardless of what I think of pet classes.
As for Unholy DKs - haven't been specced Unholy in a long while, and mostly it's because I tend not to enjoy pet classes that much. Pets just add another element of control that I don't enjoy having to deal with (and sometimes they have stupid AI).
I may try it out again at some point, but with my current gear setup, it's not viable for me. I recently purchased a Soul Blade for 22k (though I'm considering not holding on to it, as I haven't equipped it yet), but I've been on the road for DW DPS pretty much since I finished leveling - I was excited for it since strength one-handers were first announced. If those still didn't exist, I'd probably be Unholy now, regardless of what I think of pet classes.
J-Rzez said:
It's also worth pointing out that one of those nine souls is a PVP soul built to support the other 8 specs specifically in a PVP environment.
Girlfriend was in Beta and glancing over her shoulder has been a real treat. She's got a Mage (ranged DPS class), but she's heavily built around the Chloromancer soul which is Healing-via-DPS, so she's standing back casting all of these nature-oriented nukes and the healing just rolls off the mob onto everyone around her. She played a Blood Mage in Vanguard, which is similar (Healing via DPS, but also Healing via damage redistribution). She's really excited for the launch, I wish I had the money to upgrade my PC to a point where it'd run nicely, but right now I'd be pretty choppy and I'd rather not get into a game that I can't run at decent performance levels.
Anyways... yeah, there's a Rift thread already, but I figured a few comments would bubble into the WoW thread.
Retro said:
Actually, isn't it for example, warrior: 3 classes pve dps, 3 tank, and 3 pvp? Sure there's some spill overs but that's the way they like to think of the system. Also, I guess if you really wanted to you can make basically 1/3 rogue, 1/3 hunter, 1/3 support class. Pretty neat, and it's interesting to see as Blizzard thinks it's better to just have people fill up one tree and give you 5-10pts extra to dabble with and basically hold your hand giving you a cookie cutter spec, Rift gives you so many options and unmatched depth to your playstyle compared to WoW. It's also worth noting Rift feels just like a every-so-slightly slower WoW. If they sped it up just a tad, it'd be spot on. I'll actually be likely buying it day one now as I need something different enough in concept so I don't get WoW-burnt again. I'll probably log into WoW just on raid nights.
Frost DK's are boring to play, and now with the uncalled for nerfs they'll be even more boring. Unholy has gotten hit incredibly hard by glancing over the changes, but it's still the most fun there is right now out of any class/spec in the game to me. So fast, yet you have to keep track of a few things, and adjust rune usage accordingly. Claw is bugged on the pet though still after all this time, so I'd recommend macro'n it in with your DC and ScS.
J-Rzez said:
All of the souls will have some use in PVP, but from what I've read the PVP Souls are separate, unlocked at a later level, and basically function as a 'filter' through which the other souls' abilities are converted into PVP-oriented abilities.
But beyond that, it's really hard to paint souls in a specific way... for example, the Paladin and Reaver are both tanks, but the Paladin is more of a slow, heavy melee boss tank while the Reaver is more of a fast, light melee trash tank. But that only barely describes both.
Since you're not painted into a corner because there are only 4 classes, it should be perfectly viable for a Tank character to jump between Paladin and Reaver at the drop of a hat. And when you face more magic-oriented mobs, the same character might switch over to a Void Knight, the anti-caster tank soul....
Especially since you can have quad-spec by the time you reach the end game.
Warrior souls are Paladin (boss tank), Champion (Two-hand Burst DPS), Warlord (support), Beastmaster (Pet DPS), Paragon (Dual Wield Sustained DPS), Reaver (trash Tank), Riftblade (ranged magic /melee DPS combo) and Void Knight (anti-magic tank). All of those have value in PVP, but they aren't specifically PVP oriented.
The Warrior PVP soul, Vindicator, is loaded with snares, anti-snares, and little mechanical twists (for example, one talent turns your taunt into a damage reducing effect). All of the things a PVP'er could want are tied into that soul, so if there's any PVP balance issues they don't have to nerf the other PVE souls.
Look at some of them abilities: http://telarapedia.com/wiki/Vindicator_abilities
"The Warrior roots themselves and their enemy in place for the next 5 seconds. This ability can not be blocked or broken."
"Increased amount of damage absorbed when blocking players by 5%"
"The Warrior breaks free from and becomes immune to all Snare and Root effects for 10 Seconds"
"Mark the enemy, reducing healing received by 30% for 15 seconds."
Those are PVP skills, straight up. Everyone wishing Blizzard would add a PVP-tree is basically getting exactly that in Rift.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Alex said:Class though, guy, not spec. Ret has a legit gripe since it's a seperate archetype within a class and you can be kind of fucked if they shut that avenue off, but it's really not the end of the world if a pure class has to gravitate towards one of three specs that all do the exact same thing.
It's nice when they are though, not trying to say otherwise. Although, in reality, looking at say... Hunter specs, which, post patch, are all within about 5% of each other, people will still mostly be picking Marksman since it's the best, even by a slim margin.
This is true, but it is annoying having to jump from spec to spec from rollercoaster nerfs and buffs (variation between spec's chosen stats still stings now, even with reforging). Again, "we've been told to expect perfect parity and we do" rears its ugly head.
Whats with all the dumb Rift talk. The game sucks. It's a blatant rip off of WoW & Warhammer having a child.
Quest hub to quest hub .... kill this that many times, gather this many things .... done with that zone? Go to the next and do the same ... borrrrring.
Oh Rifts? NEATTTTTTTTTT. Nope. Public Quests from Warhammer exactly.
Crafting system? Just like WoW.
Animations are wonky for some things and pretty for others. Graphics really aren't that great for how bad they tax my system (yeah yeah yeah i know its beta).
Classes are the only thing going for the game, but those will be theorycrafted down to the max dps / max healing / best tank combos and if you play anything else you're just gimping yourself or are retarded.
Bring on Guild Wars 2 ... at least they have their own ideas.
Quest hub to quest hub .... kill this that many times, gather this many things .... done with that zone? Go to the next and do the same ... borrrrring.
Oh Rifts? NEATTTTTTTTTT. Nope. Public Quests from Warhammer exactly.
Crafting system? Just like WoW.
Animations are wonky for some things and pretty for others. Graphics really aren't that great for how bad they tax my system (yeah yeah yeah i know its beta).
Classes are the only thing going for the game, but those will be theorycrafted down to the max dps / max healing / best tank combos and if you play anything else you're just gimping yourself or are retarded.
Bring on Guild Wars 2 ... at least they have their own ideas.
Macattk15 said:
You can basically do something like this for WoW too. I like how people think something's bad that it copies the good elements from other games and merges them into one.
After seeing the trees in Rift it just really bums me out that Blizzard is busy tuning their trees for window lickers. They talked about simplifying this and that, and allowing you to choose some fun/cool talents, but that isn't the case at all. I think they just nerfed down the trees to make things easier to balance on their end, along with mastery. So in the end I feel it wasn't done for us, more like for them.
I agree with Retro though, there should be a PVP-tree in this game. Even if it's an alloted amount of points where you get to choose say, 4 out of 12 talents just to make sure that you really have to pick and choose what you take, that you can't get all the best stuff. That'd be cool.
I don't know. Raiding is all sorts of "fuck-awesome" like the kids say these days, but as far as everything else outside of some great quests leaves a lot to be desired. We need Titan, but we won't get anything on that for probably 2 more years, at least I'd guess.
cubicle47b
Member
Not that it really means anything but I ranked 10th on World of Logs as a Holy Paladin on Nefarian tonight. Felt good.
I posted this before in the Rift thread, and I'll post it here: I like Rift because it's WoW: Version B. I know everything there is to know about WoW. I know the mechanics, the skills, the world, the lore, the classes, the armor, the weapons, the pvp system, the balance and imbalance, etc etc etc.Macattk15 said:
I don't know about these things in Rift. That's why I'm looking forward to what it can offer.
ToyMachine228
Member
scoobs said:
We had our first full night of Al'Akir attempts tonight. We're 10/12. Demoralized. 10-man difficulty is so hardcore with the design of some of these fights. Any tips of Al'Akir in general? The part we seem to be having trouble with is actually Phase 2. What to do with the adds. When to kill, who should tank them, etc.
Just saw this titan=halo conspiracy theory. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM3n3Ve0OAs&feature=player_embedded
cubicle47b
Member
ToyMachine228 said:
Have a melee DPS with taunt tank the adds about 10-15 yards away from the rest of your raid. At the beginning of phase 2 let the adds build up until you have 3 then start killing them every 17-18 seconds (never let the debuff drop of al'akir).
cuevas. PhD.
Member
AlAkir is such an RNG fight, it reminds me of the BS from prince in kara.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Cho'Gall best attempts tonight around 50%.
It's annoying in that phase 2 is stupid easy, but phase 1 is super control-heavy. About a third of the raid night lost due to Comcast failing on some people though.
It's annoying in that phase 2 is stupid easy, but phase 1 is super control-heavy. About a third of the raid night lost due to Comcast failing on some people though.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Sai-kun said:
Blizzard doesn't own the rights to make a Fallout MMO. Though it's not like they couldn't purchase them if they wanted to.
Vestal said:
Nah, I see a lot more Frosties out there than UH.
The change to Mastery is actually going to be hilarious. My Scourge Strike is going to do beautiful damage! This also includes all my other shadow damage abilities.....which is most of them!
There is a nerf to UH in many areas for sure, but it won't be as bad as it seems.
wonderdung
Member
cuevas said:
Phase 1? We were having trouble with that, but it turns out if the tank runs out of melee he'll start taking electrocution and it will delay the knockback until all of the tornado shit is out of the way.
Phase 2 is trivial. Phase 3 I haven't figured out myself but 70% of my group has so that's all that matters.
Killed it tonight to get my Defender of a Shattered World title that will only be cool for about another week.
I'm going to be a happy shadow priest today. Incoming 30k mind blasts!
Though Mind Blast needed this buff, it will definitely make Spriests OP in PvE. But if they somehow made Dark Intent from warlocks not as good on Spriests, they would be balanced. DI is such an OP talent for one class to have.
Though Mind Blast needed this buff, it will definitely make Spriests OP in PvE. But if they somehow made Dark Intent from warlocks not as good on Spriests, they would be balanced. DI is such an OP talent for one class to have.
Fantasy Final
Member
I use WoW Insider for news, tips and good reading.colinp said:
Damn just got my Pally to 85..right before they get nerfed to hell today.
I levelled as prot, purchased some green healing gear. Queued for a daily and got Halls of Origination.
First group of mobs pulled without any CC and I kept the whole group alive (although it was hariy a couple of times) and finished with about 50% mana left over. Unfortunately tank DC'ed and we couldnt kick him so group dispursed...so I am still wearing green healing gear
A decked out Holy Pally must be a terror for heals, I understand why they are in such demand now
I levelled as prot, purchased some green healing gear. Queued for a daily and got Halls of Origination.
First group of mobs pulled without any CC and I kept the whole group alive (although it was hariy a couple of times) and finished with about 50% mana left over. Unfortunately tank DC'ed and we couldnt kick him so group dispursed...so I am still wearing green healing gear
A decked out Holy Pally must be a terror for heals, I understand why they are in such demand now
Evil Benius
Member
Dunlop said:
Almost decked out in full 359 now and heroics are a hilarious joke. Even doing some with a friend still gearing up a DK tank and I can finish a lot of boss fights almost full. Last night in BRC we had a PUG tank forget to dismiss hit pet when jumping down to the second boss so all of that trash got pulled at once on us and we surived it with zero deaths and me still at 60%.
Raids are a little different, but if we get to the point where I am worrying about going OOM then a lot of other shit has already gone south. Really curious to see how big of a nerf these changes are on our raid tonight, I think things will still be fine.
Weenerz said:
I'm not angry at all. UMAD defense is so retarded, do you think I sat at my computer fuming with rage as I typed that? No.
All the happy talk about how Rift is awesome is just retarded to me and I was expressing my opinion. The game IS WoW. It is a knock-off and it will flounder after 6 months as all MMOs that have come out recently do.
I wish I had a game design company. I'd just rip off the leaders in the MMO industry and make millllllions!
And before you say it, this isn't WoW Defense Force ... I'm incredibly bored of WoW but playing a clone of it is certainly not something I'd want to do.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
wonderdung said:
Yeah phase 1, mechanics like that are stupid.
love wow insider. closest thing to a daily "wow magazine". Even the articles and Q&A's are fun to read often.Fantasy Final said:
Did Valonia last night. 10 attempts, but we got them on the first night. well, actually a 10 man had them once before, but we got them the first night on 25m. basically 15 other people having one night to get used to the fight. probably the most involved fight I've been in so far this tier, with omnotron being a somewhat distant second. 7/12 now and it feels good. I missed last tuesday because I "was nice" and sat for some others lower down to get a raid spot, and the tuesday before that because of commitments, but damned if I am sitting this tuesday. leader always seems to start the lockout with Omnotron and I want that damn Security Measure Alpha. Between that and my Valor ring (sometime this week) I'll be set on pre-Heroic rings. I always thought I wanted Power Generator Hood (a while before I get the Firelord Hood) but according to guildox the Justice hood is actually better than any of the non-heroic hoods....... weird.. Was going to use that 2200 JP for Mass of McGowan for my shammy, but now my shammy is 69 so the next batch of JPs I end up sitting with I'll probably either get a caster piece of armor, or maybe the caster staff for heirlooms. Have a priest I keep meaning to level up. One of these days I should really do a pally
Azwethinkweiz
Member
Ferrio said:
That's nothing, I ran VP for about a month straight and never saw the billowing cape drop from Asaad. Eventually I just got Hyjal rep to exalted and got the rep cloak. Then yesterday I ran VP and it dropped.
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