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World of Warcraft |OT2|
- Thread starter EviLore
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Alex
Member
Outland is no Northrend, but it's far ahead of what classic was. Outland just needs a tuneup, they don't even have to redesign much. Just put the dungeon quests inside the dungeons, cull the gather/kill requirements by maybe half for those types, move a bit around to cluster and reduce travel ala Cataclysm.
I wouldn't mind them reducing XP to level further though at 60+, especially in Northrend which is simply too long when you're trying to power through. For those of us who have done it several times, it's not the kind of game design that holds up on umpteen playthroughs considering leveling is basically an adventure game and cap is the ARPG.
Another appealing thing would be to let players with two characters above, say, level 30 create a new character within 10 levels of that. So if you had two level 85s you could create 75's. That'd NEVER happen, of course, but I can dream.
Also, improve RAF in the meantime to go further into the game for those of us who stored codes to cheese it
I wouldn't mind them reducing XP to level further though at 60+, especially in Northrend which is simply too long when you're trying to power through. For those of us who have done it several times, it's not the kind of game design that holds up on umpteen playthroughs considering leveling is basically an adventure game and cap is the ARPG.
Another appealing thing would be to let players with two characters above, say, level 30 create a new character within 10 levels of that. So if you had two level 85s you could create 75's. That'd NEVER happen, of course, but I can dream.
Also, improve RAF in the meantime to go further into the game for those of us who stored codes to cheese it
AceBandage
Banned
Woo!
Finally!
AdventureRacing
Member
Tamanon said:
I agree with this. I enjoy outlands and you can get through it really quick even if you dislike it.
Northrend is a massive grind for me. I'm having trouble getting any of my alts through it. I didn't like it much the first time and im struggling to get through it again. The fact that it takes a long time doesn't help.
I'm also not looking forward to doing cata zones again. I enjoy leveling from 1-70 but the trip to 85 is turning me off raising more alts even though i would like some more at 85.
ToyMachine228
Member
Killed Al'Akir tonight! 11/12! Got about 45 minutes of 9-man attempts on Nefarian. What is the strat for adds in 10-man? All the guides say "simply CC the adds". Anyone care to give some more detail and a few tips?
charlequin
Banned
Alex said:
Right, exactly. That's why I find Grimace's absolute statement so silly. I'm not saying it would be easy, exactly, but 80% of the quest material would only need relatively minor brush-ups. It's a significantly smaller job than what happened with Cataclysm.
There are a ton of level-related mechanics Blizzard should implement, IMO. Beyond stealing level-shifting mechanics from CoH (Blizzard has great reasons not to let people up-level for grouping but there's no reason not to let them down-level) I think they should really add something like this, and probably a second hero class that can heal to boot.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
http://stateofdps.com/
Sorry if you don't want to play the best spec for your class I don't want to hear your tears.
Sorry if you don't want to play the best spec for your class I don't want to hear your tears.
wonderdung
Member
ToyMachine228 said:
Our hunter kites them until they're all grouped up, or close, right behind Nefarian. Then we go into a CC chain with frost nova, warrior fear, and paladin stun. It takes practice is all.
In phase 3 they're kited. That also takes a lot of practice.
It took us a number of attempts before we figured out the best healing strategy and positioning for the adds and kiting phase 3. With all that figured out we 1 or 2 shot it every week now.
Any hunters finding Marks to be vastly superior to SV now? I tried Marks last night for our raid, but was getting beat consistently in pretty much every fight on the charts, switched back to SV and was on the top or number 2 on every fight. It could be that I'm simply not used to playing Marks correctly yet, but I felt that I was doing pretty much everything the way I was supposed to. =\
cubicle47b
Member
ToyMachine228 said:
Some people CC them (this is probably a lot harder now as I think they nerfed some of the CC on the adds, hunters in particular), some people tank them, some people use a frost mage to control them and then maybe a DPS to tank them very briefly. We use a frost mage in Phase 1 and then the Ony tank in phase 3.
hmmm.. Outland is far ahead of what classic was... but is way behind vanilla now (obviously). And it's much less of a tune up. Zangarmarsh for example still has "collect 30 drops" or "collect 5 10% drops", and a lot. They also have (and I HATE this) basically minimum dungeon quests needed to complete the achievements (dungeon quests should be a separate achievement, which they are now. not counted in the zone, especially for older content where dungeon queues can be like 5-10 minutes for a tank and 40+ minutes for DPS)Alex said:
I do like some things in outland though that's changed... I think quest hubs are mandatory, without question. and having one quest out in the middle of nowhere is bullshit. BUT, I do like those micro-quest hubs where it's like one NPC who has like 2-3 quests with a small toryline behind them. leave the starting quest unlocked and it just returns to that sense of exploration when you find something that needs doing in the middle of nowhere. However stuff like this should be far in between, and if THAT were to end in a dungeon, that would be fine.
So we started Twilight Council last night. got like 3-4 pulls on it. by the end we had the second two down to about 40%, which wasn't bad I think. basically three quarters of the way through P2 before it just turns into a tank and spank. biggest problems (as always) are unresponsive members in the raid. one guy practically wiped us on Valiona because he didn't get out of ranged with engulfing magic and thus took out 80% of the DPS. then one of a handful of usual suspects didn't get the concept of "if you have lightning rod, move the fuck out of everyone, get to a wall, don't dps, don't run for the tornado/gravity well, just get away from everyone". I swear to god some of these folks don't have DBM? Is there a way that can be audited? Anyway, next raid night is Sunday and I heavily expect the raid to be stacked and Ascendent Council to go down. after that we will be 8/12 with multiple kills on everyone except ascendent council.
meh, I would argue that BM Hunters, Subtlety Rogues, Arms Warriors and non-Fire Mages are the only ones who have a right to complain right now (judging from stateofdps). Everyone else is within 20% of the top and thus completely viable for raid DPS.Naeblish said:
a big untalked about problem with statefodps is also that the best of the best players probably won't be playing the lower specs, and many people playing the lower specs are probably relatively uninformed about the game to not know they are not playing their class optimally. There might be guys capable of doing 21-22K with a non-Fire mage, but have no interest in it because they'd rather be doing 24K as fire. also it's an average. for instance take arcane mage and do a search and you see arcane fights at like 22K, 24K, etc. likewise subtlety fights at 20K+ (non-halfus). about the only thing the front page of stateofdps tells you is "with which spec do I have the highest likelihood of pressing buttons and doing high dps". If you search the results for specific specs you'll see plenty of examples of "bad" specs doing completely respectable DPS.
edit - stateofdps' front page really is the new gearscore. a fairly meaningless score taken with absolutely no context. if you are looking for any use out of stateofdps whatsoever, go to the search and filter on the class/spec you are curious about.
So, let's check out blizzard's list of to-do's for today:
1. Fix the haste bug: ______
2. Stealth nerf DK's Death's Advance: _Check_
3. Don't hot-fix other OP classes: _Check_
This class has been the most ridiculous situation I've ever experienced in a MMO now. It's just relentless, OP, mini-nerf, nerf, mini buff, nerf to the ground and break, OP again, nerf, nerf, stealth nerf again, mechanic broken don't fix, sit there do nothing...
It's clearly evident that as long as PVE and PVP are both existent in a game, it'll never-ever be balanced.
1. Fix the haste bug: ______
2. Stealth nerf DK's Death's Advance: _Check_
3. Don't hot-fix other OP classes: _Check_
This class has been the most ridiculous situation I've ever experienced in a MMO now. It's just relentless, OP, mini-nerf, nerf, mini buff, nerf to the ground and break, OP again, nerf, nerf, stealth nerf again, mechanic broken don't fix, sit there do nothing...
It's clearly evident that as long as PVE and PVP are both existent in a game, it'll never-ever be balanced.
When I was going to switch alts to pally (thankfully dont think I need to now) I was going to do a race change/rename.
I put a GM request in for 2 names that I used before I moved to this server and after a year neither is on the armory.
The GM freed one up..but I needed to make the alt quickly to secure the name. It has to be less than to hours since he responded and I logged up and the name was already snagged.
Is there an addon the checks for name availability? I find it unlikely that this name qould have been scooped up so fast.
I put a GM request in for 2 names that I used before I moved to this server and after a year neither is on the armory.
The GM freed one up..but I needed to make the alt quickly to secure the name. It has to be less than to hours since he responded and I logged up and the name was already snagged.
Is there an addon the checks for name availability? I find it unlikely that this name qould have been scooped up so fast.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Because the "problems" with Outland's quests have absolutely nothing on the original vanilla quests's problems. They aren't even comparable.charlequin said:
if it's unavailable and it's not showing up on the armory either a) the GM hasn't released the name yet or b) someone else snagged the name with a <level 10 character. Remember, you have to be level 10 to show up on the armory, and if someone JUST snagged it today, good chance they aren't 10 yet.Dunlop said:
It took you two hours to snag the name? There's a good chance some one took it plain and simple. NEVER do a request when you're not going to snag it seconds later.Dunlop said:
I talked to a GM about freeing up two names recently. He said one was already free and that'd he'd free up the second. I knew going in that it wasn't already free, but I took his word for it, and it still wasn't free. Point is they could easily make mistakes.
the fact that blizz has pretty much said you'll never be able to fly in BC starting zones leads me to believe they won't do anything about the questing in Outland.charlequin said:
But realistically I started outland now "at 62" (i.e. my character who was parked there since BC launch at 62 just started getting played again) and honestly I was in Outland for less than 7 calendar days of play time. Of reasonable playing time from 58-68 you can't be there for more than a week. That simply just isn't enough exposure time to justify redoing the whole continent.
As for those saying NR is too slow... I don't agree. I think the worst offense of NR is that it is crazy slow compared to vanilla and much slower than BC. But it's still a hell of a lot faster than Cata and yuo can still do a level a day with questing and more than a level a day if you can get good instance runs together. Oh, the other annoyance is that you are basically there for 12 levels. However flying (and epic flying) in NR from the beginning alleviates many of the problems.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
Ramirez said:
Yes.
should be SS->SS->AI->SS->SS->Chimera
With a SrS to start off the rotation.
rinse. repeat.
charlequin
Banned
Naeblish said:
In 2004, most classes had somewhere between zero and one raidable specs, and there was almost no class flexibility on party comp for the vast majority of endgame content.
In 2011, we're complaining about some classes that have one unraidable spec which thereby makes them worse off than the other classes that have three.
In any overall sense, Blizzard's class balance efforts in WoW have been extremely effective.
borghe said:
Yep. There's a great one in Blade's Edge Mountains for Horde where there's a random troll head in the middle of nowhere who has a whole revenge chain against the local ogres. Nobody tells you to go find him but he is in the general area that other quests in the zone send you to. I always like that sort of thing.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
Ramirez said:
Never use Arcane unless you're moving and need to dump focus. You shouldn't even be glyphed for it anymore.
charlequin
Banned
Angry Grimace said:
And the work to fix them has nothing on the work done to fix the vanilla quests. That's my point. Break instance quests off of chains and put them inside the instance, tweak all those 5% drop chance quests, move some dudes around, rewrite text on the 10% of quests that have time-dependent storyline content, change NPCs on the other 10% of quests that Garrosh or Saurfang the Younger or whoever give you, done. Blizzard has done random content tune-ups of this sort before (like when they reworked an entire zone with new quest hubs and flight points back in vanilla.)
borghe said:
There is literally no difference between blue saying they won't revamp the BC starting zones now and blue saying they won't revamp the old world in 2009. It's like when reps at Nintendo say they don't have plans for a DS revision and then the DS Lite is announced five days later.
What it really comes down to is that Cataclysm represents a new approach to tending an older MMO -- instead of just constantly tacking on new leveling content to the top, they're fixing up the whole game to make it better for every future resubber and every new alt etc. etc. If they're serious about keeping WoW going until 2016 (and I don't know why they wouldn't be) then it makes sense to continually reinvest in old content, even if some parts (Outland) don't really make sense for more than relatively minor touch-ups.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't think this is a solid premise because changing the quests to reflect Cataclsym quest goals involves the same amount of work regardless of what the original quest was because you have to scrap the original quest and rewrite a new one.charlequin said:
The kind of work you're suggesting isn't what was being suggested: what I believe we were talking about when we brought up the idea of Outland being updated was making quests to be the same as the new-oldworld and Cataclysm in terms of design and quest flow.
I'm struggling to think of where there's anything particularly "wrong" with Outland. What really sucked about the original game was that quests were randomly strewn about and half of them required you to go to different continents or zones to complete one quest (i.e.: get my rum from Aerie Peak and bring it to me in Booty Bay). The quests in Outland are already brought together into hubs.
Again, I simply don't buy that Outland is some kind of massive stumbling block for the new player the way Vanilla was. In Vanilla, you had the problem that players never got to the expansion content which was inarguably better simply because players had no option but to trudge through punishing content. I don't think that problem exists at all right now. The problem with Outland is kind of the same as at launch of TBC; it's a relatively random destination that serves no legitimate purpose within the game other than gaining some levels.
Making Outland make sense would require rewriting the old raids as 5-mans so that the storylines and zones could actually be completed, but I can't foresee that.
Outlands is nowhere near as bad as what the original classic quests were, that is true... but i just wish they could change some quests like that one asking me for 30 Naga claws in Zangarmash and that other one asking me for 30 zeppelin parts in Hellfire or the one asking me to kill 30 ogres in Blade Edge Mountain.
Fuck those quests. Cut those numbers in half like they did with the Nagrand animal quests.
Fuck those quests. Cut those numbers in half like they did with the Nagrand animal quests.
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