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[Angry Grimace]

Outlands is nowhere near as bad as what the original classic quests were, that is true... but i just wish they could change some quests like that one asking me for 30 Naga claws in Zangarmash and that other one asking me for 30 zeppelin parts in Hellfire or the one asking me to kill 30 ogres in Blade Edge Mountain.

Fuck those quests. Cut those numbers in half like they did with the Nagrand animal quests.

The 30 Naga claws quest isn't that bad because it doesn't lead to anywhere; it's just a quest you do along 6-8 other quests involving killing Nagas. It's supposed to be a quest you complete alongside doing the other zone quests akin to the the "kill 50 beasts" Nesingwary quest in Sholazar Basin. The ogre quests are similar; you have to do a lot of other stuff in those zones and you can do those as you complete all the other ones. It only gets annoying if you get OCD about completing every possible quest you could complete each time you head to a quest node area.

Adjusting numbers is something they've done a lot of already in Outland; it used to be that you had to kill 30 Rocs, Clefthoofs, etc. for the Outland Nesingwary quests.

 

[charlequin]

The kind of work you're suggesting isn't what was being suggested: what I believe we were talking about when we brought up the idea of Outland being updated was making quests to be the same as the new-oldworld and Cataclysm in terms of design and quest flow.

I guess the question is what's entailed by the new-old-world "design and quest flow." Most of what makes questing feel "smooth" in Cataclysm is that you go somewhere, you get like three quests, and the resources for all three are in the same place -- you're killing Foozles and Whatsits and picking up Hoosefats off the ground in between them -- and when you go back to the hub, either they have three more quests that you do in a different spot with three more types of things or they send you to the next hub.

What's annoying about the Outland quests is that they'll be like "go to this place far away and kill Foozles." And then you'll turn it in and they'll send you to a new quest hub halfway across the zone where the guy will send you to the same place saying "go to this place and kill Whatsits." And then when you turn that in he'll send you back again to gather the Hoosefats. All the locations and mobs and random junk are fine, they just need to be reorganized.

Alternate pithy explanation: they don't need to bring Outland up to the Cata standard, just the Wrath standard. None of the Northrend zones have quite the polish of the new 1-60 or include the new mechanics like quest portraits, remote turn-in, etc. but they're basically adequate and I think you could bring Outland up to that standard mostly by reorganizing things.

Re: raids, I dunno, Cataclysm updated the quests and zones but left the three remaining level-60 raids alone even though none of them make storyline sense in the current timeline. Story content is definitely harder to fix than quest flow though.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

I really hope we see some info about the next content patch soon.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I guess the question is what's entailed by the new-old-world "design and quest flow." Most of what makes questing feel "smooth" in Cataclysm is that you go somewhere, you get like three quests, and the resources for all three are in the same place -- you're killing Foozles and Whatsits and picking up Hoosefats off the ground in between them -- and when you go back to the hub, either they have three more quests that you do in a different spot with three more types of things or they send you to the next hub.

What's annoying about the Outland quests is that they'll be like "go to this place far away and kill Foozles." And then you'll turn it in and they'll send you to a new quest hub halfway across the zone where the guy will send you to the same place saying "go to this place and kill Whatsits." And then when you turn that in he'll send you back again to gather the Hoosefats. All the locations and mobs and random junk are fine, they just need to be reorganized.

Alternate pithy explanation: they don't need to bring Outland up to the Cata standard, just the Wrath standard. None of the Northrend zones have quite the polish of the new 1-60 or include the new mechanics like quest portraits, remote turn-in, etc. but they're basically adequate and I think you could bring Outland up to that standard mostly by reorganizing things.

Re: raids, I dunno, Cataclysm updated the quests and zones but left the three remaining level-60 raids alone even though none of them make storyline sense in the current timeline. Story content is definitely harder to fix than quest flow though.

I just can't agree with that assessment of Outlands questing; I think the quest hubs are designed pretty well actually. Consider the Alliance version of Hellfire: You get 90% of the quests in centralized hubs: in Honor Hold, and they mostly come back to there; then send you to Telhalmat, the Cenarion Camp and the Broken Ledge (or whatever it's called). They are mostly designed as static hubs. The fact you have the options to go to more than one of those hubs doesn't really "break" it.

The polish you speak of doesn't seem like its really baked into what I'd call "compelling" quest design though so I can't see them going back to add it when it doesn't add that much.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Does [Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond]. drop for everyone or just for Jewelcrafters? Is farming for it viable?

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Does [Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond]. drop for everyone or just for Jewelcrafters? Is farming for it viable?

It's a random rare world drop for everyone, so no farming it is not viable. It would be like trying to farm any rare world drop pattern: foolish.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

It's a random rare world drop for everyone, so no farming it is not viable. It would be like trying to farm any rare world drop pattern: foolish.

Ugh, a few people being able to profit big of it as soon as Chaotic Shadowspirit became viable is lame.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Ugh, a few people being able to profit big of it as soon as Chaotic Shadowspirit became viable is lame.

I have no problem with it myself, it actually makes the cuts valuable. If every JC was easily able to get the three new meta gems from tokens the cuts would barely be worth more than the uncut meta gem.

what I don't like is the new bracer enchant requiring maelstrom crystals. 2 crystals, which goes for 2500/per on my server, for 50 agility to bracers? COME ON!

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I have no problem with it myself, it actually makes the cuts valuable. If every JC was easily able to get the three new meta gems from tokens the cuts would barely be worth more than the uncut meta gem.

what I don't like is the new bracer enchant requiring maelstrom crystals. 2 crystals, which goes for 2500/per on my server, for 50 agility to bracers? COME ON!

Not many people are going to be willing to pay for the mat cost right now. So, that will give time for more Enchanters to get the pattern and lower the craft fee. Demand for lesser enchants will be still high for a while.

The meta gem? The mats are only 190g on my server. Since that new meta gem is now BIS, and only a few people have it, a select few are making a big profit and killing demand for the gem everyone was waiting for as soon as it was updated.

Edit: Also, every raider is going to replace their meta in the first few days not giving a chance for others to get it. Waiting a few weeks to save a few hundred gold is probably something most wont care about. That's a monopoly a few hold right there.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I knew something was going on:

"Auto Shot was not firing while the hunter was moving under certain conditions. Auto Shot should now always function correctly while the hunter is moving."

 

[Alex]

Some of the huge spell explosions on these boss fights seem to kick the shit out of my PC for some reason. Like when Maloriak goes into his final phase it goes a little nuts, I lose like 30 FPS instantly. I have an i5 @ 4ghz with a GTX 460. has anyone else had any issues with this stuff?

 

[TheExodu5]

Some of the huge spell explosions on these boss fights seem to kick the shit out of my PC for some reason. Like when Maloriak goes into his final phase it goes a little nuts, I lose like 30 FPS instantly. I have an i5 @ 4ghz with a GTX 460. has anyone else had any issues with this stuff?

Nope...but then again I'm running SLI GTX 570 D:

I do run with Shadows on High though, as I've found Shadows on Ultra still drops the framerate considerably in many areas like Elowyn Forest.

I've also been having major input lag and framerate issues with Tidy Plates - Threat Plates if I run on Windowed Fullscreen, though only occasionally. No clue why.

 

[Dunlop]

Some of the huge spell explosions on these boss fights seem to kick the shit out of my PC for some reason. Like when Maloriak goes into his final phase it goes a little nuts, I lose like 30 FPS instantly. I have an i5 @ 4ghz with a GTX 460. has anyone else had any issues with this stuff?

I cannot do down the elevator in BWD, My framrate just goes to shit past a certain part. Ive tried windowed mode, first person mode, levitating down, ect..It forces me to shut down the whole game to resolve

I gave up and just have the lock summon me at the bottom

 

[Alex]

Yeah, I have issues with Shadows Ultra too. It just seems to be unplausable for almost every single config.

I run em at high too, everything else ultra. 1080p, 4x multisample, 8x AF. On Maloriak and on that one boss in Halls, where he starts shitting lightning wavy shadow beams everywhere it seems to drop to 30 FPS very specificly until the effect ends.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I don't use shadows at all, but my PC is a POS

 

[Trasher]

What's the dps rotation for single-target unholy DKs?

 

[Tamanon]

Speaking of DKs, how is tanking on them these days? I've got an 80 DK I'm thinking of leveling up. Don't want to start fresh as a tank, so might start another DK on another server just to get used to it beforehand. I understand the stacking Blood Shields has gotten a bit silly though.

 

[scoobs]

What's the dps rotation for single-target unholy DKs?

There are no "rotations" anymore. But you'll be using DnD/SS/FS to use up runes. and spamming DC when you get to the RP cap for dark transformation. Thats about it. I usually start with Outbreak > DnD >SS > FS > HoW > DC spam and repeat to get a quick DT.

 

[Meteorain]

There are no "rotations" anymore. But you'll be using DnD/SS/FS to use up runes. and spamming DC when you get to the RP cap for dark transformation. Thats about it. I usually start with Outbreak > DnD >SS > FS > HoW > DC spam and repeat to get a quick DT.

It seems pointless IMO to use DnD on a single-target. Runes are more useful with other moves.

Diseases > Dark Transformation > SS > FeS> DC if SD or 100 RP > HoW.

That's my usual priority order.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

It seems pointless IMO to use DnD on a single-target. Runes are more useful with other moves.

Diseases > Dark Transformation > SS > FeS> DC if SD or 100 RP > HoW.

That's my usual priority order.

DND and SS both use 1 unholy rune, and DND does more damage than 1 SS.

 

[scoobs]

DND and SS both use 1 unholy rune, and DND does more damage than 1 SS.

Yep yep.

 

[Nolimit_SS]

Check MMO Champ, some well deserved nerfs on the way.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

nvm

 

[Meteorain]

DND and SS both use 1 unholy rune, and DND does more damage than 1 SS.

Hmm. Guess I'll chuck down a DnD when I can then.

 

[Entropia]

Hey dudes, what's a good mid-range headset? Going shopping tomorrow...

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169415800 Anyone have this?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Hey dudes, what's a good mid-range headset? Going shopping tomorrow...

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169415800 Anyone have this?

I tried out a razer headset before, probably the Piranha, and heard a lot of static.Don't know why, maybe I need a better sound card or something. Cheap 15 dollar ones sounded better, but they hurt my head. Been meaning to find something.

 

[wonderdung]

Check MMO Champ, some well deserved nerfs on the way.

I guess this means shadow priests topping meters is over?

 

[moojito]

Gah, I knew my boomkin's time at the top of skada was to be short lived! It was fun while it lasted. I thought they would have toned down the wild mushroom buff, mind you. Them shrooms are crazy now.

 

[charlequin]

I just can't agree with that assessment of Outlands questing; I think the quest hubs are designed pretty well actually.

In Hellfire (Horde-side at least) you bounce between four different points for questing; sure, all the quests are in those places, but most of the chains zig-zag between them so you spend a lot of time flying back and forth in order to turn in your quests.

In Zangarmarsh and Nagrand, all the quests are nicely located in central hubs but suffer from Nesingwary syndrome: tons of chains that send you to a place, only for you to come back and pick up the next quest that sends you to the same place, over and over again.

In Blade's Edge, same thing except the geography is also really obnoxious and getting to the stuff you're supposed to kill usually involves repeatedly flying back and forth over giant mountains or walking on foot through long-ass caves.

(And so on, and so forth.)

There's really a huge difference between it and Northrend just in terms of convenience and flow. There's a reason almost every person who hits those zones comes and complains in this thread!

 

[Dexa]

hunter pvp still sucks, even with the improved mm spec

time to lvl an alt i guess ...

 

[J-Rzez]

I really hope we see some info about the next content patch soon.

I have a feeling this is going to be a ways off yet, along with a sinking feeling in their efforts to get xpacs out much quicker, we're going to see less "free" content patches.

 

[TheExodu5]

In Hellfire (Horde-side at least) you bounce between four different points for questing; sure, all the quests are in those places, but most of the chains zig-zag between them so you spend a lot of time flying back and forth in order to turn in your quests.

In Zangarmarsh and Nagrand, all the quests are nicely located in central hubs but suffer from Nesingwary syndrome: tons of chains that send you to a place, only for you to come back and pick up the next quest that sends you to the same place, over and over again.

In Blade's Edge, same thing except the geography is also really obnoxious and getting to the stuff you're supposed to kill usually involves repeatedly flying back and forth over giant mountains or walking on foot through long-ass caves.

(And so on, and so forth.)

There's really a huge difference between it and Northrend just in terms of convenience and flow. There's a reason almost every person who hits those zones comes and complains in this thread!

I can't believe we did all those quests without flying mounts back in BC.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

I have a feeling this is going to be a ways off yet, along with a sinking feeling in their efforts to get xpacs out much quicker, we're going to see less "free" content patches.

Well that would be quite disappointing. I'd like to see Sulfuron Spire and a new 5 man by April.

 

[Tamanon]

So, apparently Randy Jordan is leaving The Instance. I'm thinking they're going to have Turpster replace him, which would be awesome. Love Turpster.

 

[TheExodu5]

Well that would be quite disappointing. I'd like to see Sulfuron Spire and a new 5 man by April.

Judging by past releases, we should expect it probably by late April, or early May.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

In Hellfire (Horde-side at least) you bounce between four different points for questing; sure, all the quests are in those places, but most of the chains zig-zag between them so you spend a lot of time flying back and forth in order to turn in your quests.

In Zangarmarsh and Nagrand, all the quests are nicely located in central hubs but suffer from Nesingwary syndrome: tons of chains that send you to a place, only for you to come back and pick up the next quest that sends you to the same place, over and over again.

In Blade's Edge, same thing except the geography is also really obnoxious and getting to the stuff you're supposed to kill usually involves repeatedly flying back and forth over giant mountains or walking on foot through long-ass caves.

(And so on, and so forth.)

There's really a huge difference between it and Northrend just in terms of convenience and flow. There's a reason almost every person who hits those zones comes and complains in this thread!

Or perhaps they've experienced it throroughly already and recently.

Granted, that's not a good reason to make them simplistic bottlenecky honey-do lists like some Cata zones initially, either. BoA, BG, instances, and not doing it until it's been a while tend to fix the "time spent leveling" nicely.

 

[charlequin]

I can't believe we did all those quests without flying mounts back in BC.

I can't believe you did either!

Or perhaps they've experienced it throroughly already and recently.

Everyone who was doing Outland for the first time said the same things!

Granted, that's not a good reason to make them simplistic bottlenecky honey-do lists like some Cata zones initially, either.

Northrend is really the balance point, IMO. I wouldn't want to see Hellfire Peninsula turn into Hyjal (even though I enjoyed doing Hyjal a lot), but I would totally love it if it would turn into Borean Tundra.

 

[Coeliacus]

BC wasn't that bad back in the day, because it was head and shoulders better than original launch questing. For any Alliance here, remember the Duskwood questing that would have you run back on foot? Some quest chains would have you do this 3 or 4 times.

That said, I actually miss chains like Stalvan and the Ony chain. They suck for leveling, but the lore made it interesting, and there was a certain charm to going out of your own way to travel, chasing clues or talking to people.

I spent about 6 hours farming mats for Jeeves last night from scratch, either because the mats simple aren't on the AH (fused wiring... bah) or they were too expensive (Khorium bars). Glad I got it down in one hit.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

That said, I actually miss chains like Stalvan and the Ony chain. They suck for leveling, but the lore made it interesting, and there was a certain charm to going out of your own way to travel, chasing clues or talking to people.

Ony chain was charming? That's just nostalgia talking, the chain was a fucking pain in the ass (especially horde side, though pretty shitty ally too).

 

[wonderdung]

Ony chain was charming? That's just nostalgia talking, the chain was a fucking pain in the ass (especially horde side, though pretty shitty ally too).

What you're saying isn't wrong, but it at least the long chains in classic had a sense of accomplishment to them. With all the quest-master crap in game these days quests just fly by so fast you're 80% done with a chain before you even realize you were on one.

It's a better problem to have, I think, but that's only because I'm one of those people who isn't into the game for the questing.

 

[Nolimit_SS]

My guild killed 2 heroic bosses today, easiest ones of course, looking forward to more
Only was at 1 kill tho, got achievement even(no more then 2 people can die on chimaeron).

Thing now is, while before in my old guild we had problem of people not showing up on time, or when we recruited more they sucked, now there's a lot more choice, so raid composition can be made well and there's always backups, but that sucks for me since there's another rogue and we compete for spot, plus he was there for far longer then I was :/

Anyhow, just gotta prove myself to be good and hope I get picked up often.


15.30 to ~00.30 raid, with some breaks, yeah we're very casual

 

[Coeliacus]

Ony chain was charming? That's just nostalgia talking, the chain was a fucking pain in the ass (especially horde side, though pretty shitty ally too).

I practically lived in BRD... plenty of other reasons but one was getting new guildies through the Ony chain. Unless people can't figure out how escort quests work, it wasn't that bad as Alli at least.

They could have built this form of explore/questing into archeology with it's own built in little self contained lore stories, instead of just some flavour text. It wouldn't even have to be all of that fancy scripted/phased stuff, just further use of second hand accounts and some NPCs.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Downloading the free 30 Day trial Blizzard upgraded my Starcraft 2/Battlenet account with. I've never played an MMO before, this should be fun. Or not.

 

[Scrow]

Downloading the free 30 Day trial Blizzard upgraded my Starcraft 2/Battlenet account with. I've never played an MMO before, this should be fun. Or not.

just enjoy the feeling of exploring a huge world for the first time.

 

[Alex]

Ok, I've hit my breaking point now too. Blizzard is starting to go off the deep-end with live tweaking on classes, it's not just values anymore, it's taking entire playstyles, gear choices, etc and throwing them into a loop. People log in one day, have to regear and reforge, log out, log back in and have to do it again.

Ol' GC has clearly lost it, it's like they have no direction for class design whatsoever. Just throw shit at a wall, on live servers, and hope it sticks. I'm getting highly annoyed and none of it even effects me, just friends.


I do really appreciate the attempt for consistent balance, but it's not a beta, have a fucking plan.

 

[scoobs]

Ok, I've hit my breaking point now too. Blizzard is starting to go off the deep-end with live tweaking on classes, it's not just values anymore, it's taking entire playstyles, gear choices, etc and throwing them into a loop. People log in one day, have to regear and reforge, log out, log back in and have to do it again.

Ol' GC has clearly lost it, it's like they have no direction for class design whatsoever. Just throw shit at a wall, on live servers, and hope it sticks. I'm getting highly annoyed and none of it even effects me, just friends.


I do really appreciate the attempt for consistent balance, but it's not a beta, have a fucking plan.

I just don't think they have enough play testers or something. I mean... you'd think that they'd notice that shadow priests would be doing 5k more dps with the buff they give them and theyd get totally out of control as gear progressed but NOPE... lets just increase their damage a shit ton and see how that goes. Or the fact that UH DKs get nerfed after a nerf... are these guys even trying?

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Downloading the free 30 Day trial Blizzard upgraded my Starcraft 2/Battlenet account with. I've never played an MMO before, this should be fun. Or not.

My first MMO experience, which was wow, was my favorite gaming moment.

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Ok, I've hit my breaking point now too. Blizzard is starting to go off the deep-end with live tweaking on classes, it's not just values anymore, it's taking entire playstyles, gear choices, etc and throwing them into a loop. People log in one day, have to regear and reforge, log out, log back in and have to do it again.

Ol' GC has clearly lost it, it's like they have no direction for class design whatsoever. Just throw shit at a wall, on live servers, and hope it sticks. I'm getting highly annoyed and none of it even effects me, just friends.


I do really appreciate the attempt for consistent balance, but it's not a beta, have a fucking plan.

What's awesome about this is these fixes they're doing on live servers are generally problems quickly found in the PTR, and posted on the PTR forums, but they do nothing to fix them until it hits live. We really are paying Blizz to beta test the game.

 

[J-Rzez]

Call me crazy, but I miss attunements personally. Perhaps not the old Ony type stuff, but I thought stuff like Kara was kinda cool.

Ok, I've hit my breaking point now too. Blizzard is starting to go off the deep-end with live tweaking on classes, it's not just values anymore, it's taking entire playstyles, gear choices, etc and throwing them into a loop. People log in one day, have to regear and reforge, log out, log back in and have to do it again.

Ol' GC has clearly lost it, it's like they have no direction for class design whatsoever. Just throw shit at a wall, on live servers, and hope it sticks. I'm getting highly annoyed and none of it even effects me, just friends.


I do really appreciate the attempt for consistent balance, but it's not a beta, have a fucking plan.

If you played a DK, your grandchildren would feel the pain you feel now. I mean, they completely crushed the class in a matter of 24-hours post patch. Even when reforging at patch, still down 2-3k dps. Then they threw down another layer of HEAVY hot-nerfs because DK's while normalized in PVE, were OP in PVP due to near perma hand of freedom, and even AFTER those nerfs which crushed PVE down further, they nerfed the damned mobility talent "Death's Advance" and didn't revert the dmg nerfs.

Balancing has been completely thrown out the window here, things are a disaster in both PVE and PVP. And there's yet more hotfixes rolling out everyday now, most done without rhyme or reason. It's insane. It's like they just don't know what to do and just nerfing and buffing things are random.

Best was all the talk of "we don't want people getting blown up in PVP, battles should last longer with the added HP and resi changes".... yet people are getting blown up and global'd.

 

[Fantasy Final]

As long as the game is sharing PvP and PvE at the same time, it's impossible to balance the game.