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[Spire]

Now, I've never played an MMO outside of this game...but from what I understand, the content patches that Blizzard puts out for "free", mind you, is the same amount of content other companies do with expansions. If you ask me, Burning Crusade had the most resused assets of all the expansion. Every other piece of gear was recolored tier 1 or 2 it seemed. And that is probably because the majority of time was creating the new zones and raids.

I don't get why people complain so much (You're just hypothesizing, I know...just pointing out complaints from others not just on GAF) yet play the game so religiously. I think the release of ICC to Cata is the biggest drought of content we've had, is it not?

Other MMO's, like LotRO or AoC or plenty of others, put out entire zones for free (although technically it's not. What do you think your $15 a month is partially going towards?), and usually more frequently than Blizzard puts out stuff. LotRO has been revamping old zones (essentially what Bliz is doing in Cata) for free, releasing dungeon and raid clusters just like Blizz does for free, and everything else. When WoW came out, it's patches were impressive but they've fallen behind. The rest of the industry has caught up and in some cases even passed WoW in this regard. DDO, for instance, has had six huge updates in the last nine months introducing everything from underwater combat to guild housing and a ton of new content.

 

[Spire]

I wish Blizzard would flex their dollar a little more when it came to certain art aspects (though it's probably not theirs to spend at will), so in a way I agree, but at the same time, they wildly out content all the competition and that carries over to gear as well.

Also, point me to the post where Ghostcrawler says it's hard to recolor items. This is the type of WoW forum-esque out of context drivel that's going to get you laughed at and disregarded here.

I remember that quote, and he was speaking of the immense amount of Cataclysm art assets and them having a hard time allocating staff to everything, especially when they try to keep limited staff for certain areas as to preserve the look and feel.

While I condemn them, yet again, for not redoing the original eight races, the sheer amount of design and content being injected in one with mere expansion is still mind boggling. They're always such a huge event than the "Five terrible classes! Five unfinished zones! Two unfinished dungeons! TWEAK NOTHING ELSE. SHIP IT AND STAGGER IT'S RELEASE" that I'm still used to outside of this title. :lol

Well point me to the post where I said Ghostcrawler said it was hard to recolor items. I haven't followed the Blizz forums in a year or so, so I'm not even familiar with the quote you're talking about. I said blues have commented on how long it takes to make this stuff before, it was probably in relation to the new druid forms or the T9 debacle. They bring it up in their defense and use it as an excuse for all the re-coloring/re-skinning they do.

 

[notworksafe]

Every WoW character I have can log in EXCEPT the one I want to take to a raid. WTF...

Well point me to the post where I said Ghostcrawler said it was hard to recolor items. I haven't followed the Blizz forums in a year or so, so I'm not even familiar with the quote you're talking about.

Then how did you know it existed to call it out?

 

[Alex]

What...? DDO is in no way, shape or form any kind of content heavy hitter in the most minute of manners. It's had some extra life breathed into it since it's format swap, but it's still catching up to very basic concepts and still has issues with a lot of underbaked content and recycling. It's very much fitting of it's distribution model in terms of updating.

Now, it's been ages since I've given any real thought to LotRO, which I do think is a solid game, so you will have me there.

However, mentioning AOC makes me question your comments on it though. AOC always has and always will be a straight up, half assed mess. It is pure trash. Trying to par Blizzard with fucking Funcom of all developers is insanity. Even SOE commands more respect than Funcoms work.

I said blues have commented on how long it takes to make this stuff before, it was probably in relation to the new druid forms or the T9 debacle. They bring it up in their defense and use it as an excuse for all the re-coloring/re-skinning they do.

You said Ghostcrawler, and in the middle of your nonsensical diatribe about something no one has ever really commented on.

 

[Yoshichan]

Yep, can't log in at the moment... same with everyone else it seems.

 

[firex]

Other MMO's, like LotRO or AoC or plenty of others, put out entire zones for free (although technically it's not. What do you think your $15 a month is partially going towards?), and usually more frequently than Blizzard puts out stuff. LotRO has been revamping old zones (essentially what Bliz is doing in Cata) for free, releasing dungeon and raid clusters just like Blizz does for free, and everything else. When WoW came out, it's patches were impressive but they've fallen behind. The rest of the industry has caught up and in some cases even passed WoW in this regard. DDO, for instance, has had six huge updates in the last nine months introducing everything from underwater combat to guild housing and a ton of new content.

I last played LotRO in like April or May, and at that point the only old zone they had updated was the Lone-Lands zone. What else did they work on?

 

[Spire]

Then how did you know it existed to call it out?

Beeeeecause it was said when I was still watching the forums? Alex assumed I was talking about something else, I wasn't referring to anything said about Cata, although if they did use that excuse again it wouldn't surprise me.

I last played LotRO in like April or May, and at that point the only old zone they had updated was the Lone-Lands zone. What else did they work on?

Ered Luin, Bree-Land, and the entire epic quest line (which goes all the way to 50) were redone. North Downs is next, and several of the old instances have been revamped and now scale to all levels in the next patch.

 

[Blackface]

Now, I've never played an MMO outside of this game...but from what I understand, the content patches that Blizzard puts out for "free", mind you, is the same amount of content other companies do with expansions. If you ask me, Burning Crusade had the most resused assets of all the expansion. Every other piece of gear was recolored tier 1 or 2 it seemed. And that is probably because the majority of time was creating the new zones and raids.

I don't get why people complain so much (You're just hypothesizing, I know...just pointing out complaints from others not just on GAF) yet play the game so religiously. I think the release of ICC to Cata is the biggest drought of content we've had, is it not?

Though they are putting in a lot of new art assets and models with Cata. Currently in the beta there is a metric-tonne of rehashed shit. Although every new build the beta gets much further a long and things change quite a bit.

I am hoping the two starting zones get some good changes some more fine-tuning and tweaking as they are currently IMO awful.

 

[speedpop]

That's the beauty of being on an RP realm. There's not a massive race to being epicly geared and idling in Dalaran; you just find your own "costume" and idle in Stormwind/Silvermoon City instead.

 

[Spire]

What...? DDO is in no way, shape or form any kind of content heavy hitter in the most minute of manners. It's had some extra life breathed into it since it's format swap, but it's still catching up to very basic concepts and still has issues with a lot of underbaked content and recycling. It's very much fitting of it's distribution model in terms of updating.

Now, it's been ages since I've given any real thought to LotRO, which I do think is a solid game, so you will have me there.

However, mentioning AOC makes me question your comments on it though. AOC always has and always will be a straight up, half assed mess. It is pure trash. Trying to par Blizzard with fucking Funcom of all developers is insanity. Even SOE commands more respect than Funcoms work.

I guess you haven't played AoC in awhile, as it's turned into a fairly good game. It still has content gaps (which they've been plugging with new zones, like Atzel's Approach, which was free) and some issues but all in all it's a pretty decent game these days. Worth subscribing to for awhile if only to see the new xpac zones, which are gorgeous.

As for DDO, it has a unique structure but it does not lack for content. All of the new dungeons they've released this past year have all had new, unique art and settings. They're also pretty expansive, there is not any question that the game has had a wealth of content released for it during this year. Aside from the sheer amount of art they've introduced, there are new systems like the guild airships and things like that. It had content problems at the beginning when it was dead, but after the switch to F2P they've been kicking ass and actually have a sizable team working on it now.

You said Ghostcrawler, and in the middle of your nonsensical diatribe about something no one has ever really commented on.

I'll just requote it so we can clear this up.

Ghostcrawler or someone whine about how hard it is to make new content and do these things.

I didn't get real specific and I certainly never said Ghostcrawler specifically whined about re-coloring. They've (blues) made comments in response to people bringing up the content recycling and there excuse has been that it takes them awhile. That's all I was saying.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Good ol'e Blizzard and their technical problems. Looks like my realm along with quite a few others are not loading for most people within the last couple of hours. This will be the second or third time this week I can't get my WoW fix thanks to something broken or extended maintenance. Does Blizzard even compensate for all this?

 

[firex]

Beeeeecause it was said when I was still watching the forums? Alex assumed I was talking about something else, I wasn't referring to anything said about Cata, although if they did use that excuse again it wouldn't surprise me.




Ered Luin, Bree-Land, and the entire epic quest line (which goes all the way to 50) were redone. North Downs is next, and several of the old instances have been revamped and now scale to all levels in the next patch.

damn, I must have quit it at the wrong time then. When I played it, I got so bored of a lot of those zones and I gave up with a guardian at level 40 in some swamp/evil looking zone.

 

[notworksafe]

I got in. Just had to wait 10-15 minutes and I got on.

 

[Xiaoki]

What I remember about comments made on gear art and recycling is:
it can take upwards of 6 months to complete 1 tier armor set
they recycle gear so much because of major towns(dozens of people standing around Dalaran wearing hundreds of pieces of different gear would be even harder on our computers if all armor was unique)

I call complete bull on both points but its their game.

Also, as a bonus point a blue poster once said that the WoW graphics engine was incapable of doing armor dyes.

 

[Magnus]

Now you can be buttsore and cry about people beeing elitist jerks, but in the end, you're making statements about a fight you haven't seen.

Dude, are you even reading what I wrote? I've seen it. I've played it. I'm talking about the look, the feel, the epic scale, the cutscene, the buildup. It's disappointing. Most of those details don't change drastically from mode to mode. The game's in trouble if you're telling me I can only judge it properly on heroic mode. I don't have the time or patience anymore for ultra hardcore raiding the way I did in Vanilla/BC -- getting things together for LK10 or 25 on normal is enough of a time sink. The reward for that investment wasn't awesome.

 

[Cipherr]

I never said I could outdesign them (I also never said they were talentless hacks, or even brought up talent at all), I said given my experience with 3DS, Maya, and Photoshop I don't understand why it takes them so long to produce this stuff, and then gave some other theories as to why that might be. Given what I've seen the mod community do and other MMO developers do, it'd say it's a fair question to ask why Blizzard takes so long.

Ive been playing MMOs for, shit, as long as they have been around. Id love to see you point out these other MMO's that have managed a better content to time ratio than Blizzard has with this game.

You can shove that 'mod community' shit right up your ass because its not even remotely the same. Please point out some SoE, Mythic, hell ANY company that has run an mmo in the last decade that has matched or exceeded WoW's content to time ratio. And Im talking ALL mmo's even shit like planetside, because Ive played them all.


Theres no doubt that not even Blizzard can satisfy the gamers pace for clearing content and ending up with large dry spells, but you are a fucking lunatic to suggest any other company has put out as much content as they have. Thats an outright lie.

 

[Spire]

Ive been playing MMOs for, shit, as long as they have been around. Id love to see you point out these other MMO's that have managed a better content to time ratio than Blizzard has with this game.

You can shove that 'mod community' shit right up your ass because its not even remotely the same. Please point out some SoE, Mythic, hell ANY company that has run an mmo in the last decade that has matched or exceeded WoW's content to time ratio. And Im talking ALL mmo's even shit like planetside, because Ive played them all.


Theres no doubt that not even Blizzard can satisfy the gamers pace for clearing content and ending up with large dry spells, but you are a fucking lunatic to suggest any other company has put out as much content as they have. Thats an outright lie.

LotRO was releasing an amazing amount of content for awhile (things have slowed down while they work on shifting the game to F2P). In the little less than a year and a half between SoA and MoM they released three new zones (keep in mind zones in LotRO are much bigger than zones in WoW. Forochel, for example, is probably the size of 4-5 WoW zones put together), new dungeons, two new raid tiers, and a bajillion other things. It had 15 major updates in that time. In sheer terms of new art assets introduced, it absolutely outpaced the first year and a half of WoW. WoW had, what? BG's, Mara, DM, BWL, and AQ in that time, in terms of large content chunks? Turbine absolutely outpaced them in that time and dropped two expansions in the time it took Blizzard to get out BC, with more new zones, dungeons, and raids being released between those as well. And...this is now a list war. Fuck it, I didn't want to start an argument anyway. Whatever.

 

[Yoshichan]

I'm fishing in Ironforge as horde... and this is scary as shit. I've taken off everything that might aggro them, big shoulders, mask, my title... I hope I'm lucky enough to get Old Ironjaw fast...

 

[Yoshichan]

YAAAAY!

 

[water_wendi]

I'm fishing in Ironforge as horde... and this is scary as shit. I've taken off everything that might aggro them, big shoulders, mask, my title... I hope I'm lucky enough to get Old Ironjaw fast...

http://i.imgur.com/Wtgit.png[IMG][/QUOTE]
Do /sleep while you fish.

EDIT: LOL grats!

 

[Yoshichan]

Do /sleep while you fish.

EDIT: LOL grats!

I tried that but when she casts the lure, she stands up So I was better of sitting down, that way she never stands up!

 

[Evlar]

WoW had, what? BG's, Mara, DM, BWL, and AQ in that time, in terms of large content chunks?

Between November 23, 2004 and June 20, 2006 WoW released Maraudon, Dire Maul, Warsong Gulch, Alterac Valley, Blackwing Lair, Darkmoon Faire, Zul'Gurub along with the STV quest revamp, Arathi Basin, the AQ instances with the associated world event and the Silithus revamp, and Naxxramas. That's two armor tiers (not counting the tons of equipment released with Mar, DM, and ZG), seven total instances (nine if you count DM's wings separately), and a bajillion other little tweeks and changes from perpetual class overhauls to weather effects.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Also, as a bonus point a blue poster once said that the WoW graphics engine was incapable of doing armor dyes.

That's very likely true. Textures in this game are pure bitmaps (you can pull them out of the game if you want). To have an armor dye system, they would have to remake every single texture and have two overlapping ones, one for hue and one for lightness, and define which areas would be affected by dye and which wouldn't. If every single texture is stored in Photoshop format somewhere (and it probably is), this gets a little bit easier but you still need to change the rendering process. Also, that would double the texture memory needed for characters. Or, they could brute force the entire process in the current engine by having an intern Photoshop every single texture into, say, 10 different colors but that would make a single Dalaran street scene in theory ten times as heavy on the RAM.

 

[firex]

apparently powerauras is the next mod to become adapted by blizzard into the standard UI. and I never even used powerauras.

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

Between November 23, 2004 and June 20, 2006 WoW released Maraudon, Dire Maul, Warsong Gulch, Alterac Valley, Blackwing Lair, Darkmoon Faire, Zul'Gurub along with the STV quest revamp, Arathi Basin, the AQ instances with the associated world event and the Silithus revamp, and Naxxramas. That's two armor tiers (not counting the tons of equipment released with Mar, DM, and ZG), seven total instances (nine if you count DM's wings separately), and a bajillion other little tweeks and changes from perpetual class overhauls to weather effects.

A lot of those things were supposed to be there at release and weren't ready. So it's not like most of that stuff wasn't already almost done.

 

[J-Rzez]

Dude, are you even reading what I wrote? I've seen it. I've played it. I'm talking about the look, the feel, the epic scale, the cutscene, the buildup. It's disappointing. Most of those details don't change drastically from mode to mode. The game's in trouble if you're telling me I can only judge it properly on heroic mode. I don't have the time or patience anymore for ultra hardcore raiding the way I did in Vanilla/BC -- getting things together for LK10 or 25 on normal is enough of a time sink. The reward for that investment wasn't awesome.

Insta-gib voidzones, amped infest, and valks having 3x's the hp and sticking around after they hit 50%, that will make the cinematic better for you. There's also those disco balls in a box all lined around the platform, while continuously playing that riff from the Bronhahm fight music. On occasion the LK will use that Piccolo trinket and make everyone dance, then laugh at each other, and then continue fighting.

When you kill the LK in hardmode, and his helmet hits the ground, it turns out it's actually raptor jesus that's the LK, not arthas.

How epic is that? See what you're missing in hardmode? Doesn't that change the feeling totally?

 

[Confused101]

Well, I'm taking my second character through Northrend content and I still love it. Maybe it's because I can fly right from the start now or because it's the opposite faction (most quests are still the same though), but it's still very fun.

Thankfully I'm not in the content void like some of you guys are. So I really don't have many things to complain about. I would like to see a couple things happen, but they've already been mentioned multiple times in here. So why not mention them again!

1. I would really like to see the tier armor sets be unique for each class. My warlock is currently running around in the teir 4 set(though it's the greenish tinted pvp version). I just love this set with the lightning around the shoulders and the constant black void. Just looks menacing and it's great.

2. Upgrading the vanilla race models. It has to be done and I'm sure Blizzard knows it at this point.

So while I wait for Cata, I have plenty to do. I guess that's the benefit of not jumping right into an expansion at launch. I still have yet to do any quests in Storm Peaks and Icecrown!

 

[mclem]

Random question that struck my mind:

Come Cataclysm, come the huge world revamp: How many of the assets from those initial four (wasn't it? It was so long ago) CDs I purchased right back at the start of vanilla is *still* in the game?

I suspect there are a good few textures that are unchanged, but a significant quantity of the meshes will have changed.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

A lot. The basic geometry hasn't changed and it's not like one huge chasm somewhere erased every single instance of one texture being used. This is adding more than it's taking away.

I mean, as far as stuff actually being erased from the world, there might have been some unique texture being used in old Orgrimmar and maybe somewhere in the SW park, but I doubt it.

 

[speedpop]

I was thinking earlier today about what will happen to the positions of your characters once the Cataclysm changes begin. I mean, we understand that the Orgrimmar bank is being removed in place for a stand-alone hut of sorts for Garrosh - what would happen if you logged out your character on top of the bank, would you log in and be stuck within the building? Or what about the rifts and splits that seperate certain zones apart from one another? (Barrens, STV, etc).

I postulated the theory that every character will be "hearthed" when they login via Cataclysm release.

 

[Bisnic]

I was thinking earlier today about what will happen to the positions of your characters once the Cataclysm changes begin. I mean, we understand that the Orgrimmar bank is being removed in place for a stand-alone hut of sorts for Garrosh - what would happen if you logged out your character on top of the bank, would you log in and be stuck within the building? Or what about the rifts and splits that seperate certain zones apart from one another? (Barrens, STV, etc).

I postulated the theory that every character will be "hearthed" when they login via Cataclysm release.

My guess is that they're going to be send to the closest graveyard. If you were in the middle of Feralas the last time you were playing, you would rather log on the next day at the closest graveyard rather than Dalaran.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

It would be funny to see all the lvl 35 players who are suddenly stranded in Badlands without a road back. Of course, you can go to a new town and get a flight out of there, but still.

 

[Evlar]

I'd guess everyone will just spawn at their hearthstone binding, and if that particular hearthstone location is gone they'll program automatic substitutes. (Alliance players hearthbound to Menethil Harbor will spawn at an Ironforge inn, for instance).

 

[keeblerdrow]

Every single character in the game will be respawned in the same spot. The top of the large island southeast of Booty Bay. We'll all start as prisoners of some jungle cult of head shrinkers.

 

[Ashodin]

So here's the full image for those that haven't seen it yet

One thing I noticed is that the behind the scenes DVD will come with not only the Cataclysm intro cinematic, but major patch content trailers for the future as well!

 

[Bisnic]

Man, i wanna see the Cataclysm cinematic NOW. I don't want to wait until Blizzcon.

Did they revealed the WOTLK cinematic at Blizzcon 09?

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Man, i wanna see the Cataclysm cinematic NOW. I don't want to wait until Blizzcon.

Did they revealed the WOTLK cinematic at Blizzcon 09?

Nope it was during Gamescom '08.

One thing I noticed is that the behind the scenes DVD will come with not only the Cataclysm intro cinematic, but major patch content trailers for the future as well!

I think they mean the trailers that came out during WotLK such as the Ulduar trailer and Icecrown ones. They did the same with the WotLK DVD with BC trailers.

 

[Bisnic]

Nope it was during Gamescom '08.



I think they mean the trailers that came out during WotLK such as the Ulduar trailer and Icecrown ones. They did the same with the WotLK DVD with BC trailers.

Oh yeah, the game was already out in 2009. >_> Is there a Gamescom this year? If so, when is it and is Blizzard there?

 

[notworksafe]

Oh yeah, the game was already out in 2009. >_> Is there a Gamescom this year? If so, when is it and is Blizzard there?

It already happened this past week and Blizzard didn't show anything.

 

[Bisnic]

It already happened this past week and Blizzard didn't show anything.

D: Guess we DO have to wait for Blizzcon. Man, 2 more months...

 

[notworksafe]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/1938-Power-Auras-Mages-TP-UI-Howling-Oak-Blue-Posts

Cool stuff here. The Worgen area looks good. I like the idea of having spell stacks as well for stuff like Hunter pets and portals. It was really awesome when Shaman got it built into the game, and I'm glad other classes are getting something like that as well.

I don't quite get the Power Auras thing. I never had a problem just looking at Combat Text but if other people like I guess it's cool.

 

[Magnus]

Insta-gib voidzones, amped infest, and valks having 3x's the hp and sticking around after they hit 50%, that will make the cinematic better for you. There's also those disco balls in a box all lined around the platform, while continuously playing that riff from the Bronhahm fight music. On occasion the LK will use that Piccolo trinket and make everyone dance, then laugh at each other, and then continue fighting.

When you kill the LK in hardmode, and his helmet hits the ground, it turns out it's actually raptor jesus that's the LK, not arthas.

How epic is that? See what you're missing in hardmode? Doesn't that change the feeling totally?

 

[Bisnic]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/1938-Power-Auras-Mages-TP-UI-Howling-Oak-Blue-Posts

Cool stuff here. The Worgen area looks good. I like the idea of having spell stacks as well for stuff like Hunter pets and portals. It was really awesome when Shaman got it built into the game, and I'm glad other classes are getting something like that as well.

I don't quite get the Power Auras thing. I never had a problem just looking at Combat Text but if other people like I guess it's cool.

It's so easy to forget a stack of 5 with Maelstorm Weapon as an enhancement shaman. I'll gladly take something like that. At least with the Missile Barrage proc of arcane mages, you have that particular sound to warn you.

Speaking of mages, yeah i'm glad they are going to do the same thing with portals as they did totems. Having 14 slots taken in my right side action bar only for teleports & portals is ridiculous.

 

[keeblerdrow]

Speaking of mages, yeah i'm glad they are going to do the same thing with portals as they did totems. Having 14 slots taken in my right side action bar only for teleports & portals is ridiculous.

That's why I've been using Autobar for the last 5 years. All portals and teleports in one collapsible icon.

 

[Alex]

The Worgen area is neat looking. I still think they should put some unique elements in every city though, I'd love to see more spread out population and people actually IN Darnassus.

I think it's pretty stupid that they haven't. Winding up with populace breakdowns like 0% exodar, 0% darnassus, 25% Stormwind, 75% Ironforge.

But after listening to some of the retarded fanbase break into tears because the dungeon finder (to be fair I've never been subbed after this went active) now requires you to locate the entrance, I doubt Blizzard can really do much in the way of worldly designs.

I'm very anti-time sink, but come the fuck on.

 

[Eric WK]

It's so easy to forget a stack of 5 with Maelstorm Weapon as an enhancement shaman. I'll gladly take something like that. At least with the Missile Barrage proc of arcane mages, you have that particular sound to warn you.

Speaking of mages, yeah i'm glad they are going to do the same thing with portals as they did totems. Having 14 slots taken in my right side action bar only for teleports & portals is ridiculous.

:lol

It takes five seconds to hit 'P' and pull up the portal you want.

I think the change is great but who in his right mind would put them on his bars.

 

[notworksafe]

I couldn't help myself. Apologies for the bad Photoshop work.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

I couldn't help myself. Apologies for the bad Photoshop work.

:lol


Flawless victory!

 

[Bisnic]

:lol

It takes five seconds to hit 'P' and pull up the portal you want.

I think the change is great but who in his right mind would put them on his bars.

Because i'm fucking lazy. I don't feel like pressing P and going over 7 pages of arcane spells just to find the Dalaran or IF Teleport. :lol If it wasn't for portals or teleports, those 14 slots would be empty or full of mounts/companions shortcuts.

 

[McNei1y]

Dammit! Starcraft 2 is taking valuable time away from WoW! I was on a great pace to get another guy to 80 (level 40 in 2 weeks with no heirlooms) but now its been 2 more weeks and Ive gotten about 2 levels in that time, WITH heirlooms. I fail.