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[Dunlop]

I'm thinking a week for each part of the pre events, I think there were 3 phases. So hopefully starts up this week. Cata event hopefully the week before Thanksgiving, I really don't see them putting the patch out the week of Thanksgiving.

I hope not, the stability issues are brutal. They need to fix that asap.

Every random or instance we run is like a crapshoot of someone DC'ing or being phased out of our instance. The DC issues take fucking forever as usually the person will log back and DC again (or be phsed)

This morning I tried to do the halloween instance, anyone that went near the pumpking would DC. I never got to run it and almost missed my tain, lol

To really annoy me, I just changed my professions to Alc/herb and hitting 450 is bugged where you cannot get any of the gem transmute recipes :lol

 

[markot]

Most of the events are already there I think, well the cultists and the elemental invasion.

But x server needs to get fixed >.> especially since they are adding more bosses for the cataclysm events in certain dungeons, which are meant to be like holiday ones....

Its weird and feels so random, one character the run goes fine, log onto another and I dc every 5 secs in it >.<

 

[Interfectum]

Yea.

nice... this will be fun with four level 80s.

free money, free loots


edit: where can i find the cultist quests? or are they up yet?

 

[markot]

nice... this will be fun with four level 80s.

free money, free loots


edit: where can i find the cultist quests? or are they up yet?

Nah, not yet, should be soon though. There are the Halloween quests and crap though.

 

[Moobabe]

I think this is the best pace to ask - I haven't played wow since before WOTLK and am curious about the next expansion.

I know all the zones are changing etc but if I didn't buy the expansion what wouldn't I have access to?

 

[Tamanon]

I think this is the best pace to ask - I haven't played wow since before WOTLK and am curious about the next expansion.

I know all the zones are changing etc but if I didn't buy the expansion what wouldn't I have access to?

You would not be able to access the new 80-85 zones and the Goblins or Worgen races. You'd still get all the regular revamped zones.

Archaeology is up in the air on whether it's expansion only.

 

[Interfectum]

I think this is the best pace to ask - I haven't played wow since before WOTLK and am curious about the next expansion.

I know all the zones are changing etc but if I didn't buy the expansion what wouldn't I have access to?

if you don't get cata you wont have access to:

- archeology (maybe)
- 80-85 quests, BGs, raids
- the ability to roll worgans or goblins

and uh... i think that's about it.

 

[Evlar]

if you don't get cata you wont have access to:

- archeology (maybe)
- 80-85 quests, BGs, raids
- the ability to roll worgans or goblins

and uh... i think that's about it.

Old world flight. (I think)

 

[Retro]

Pretty sure Archaeology will be implemented without Cataclysm...


Well, according to WoWhead, at least; http://www.wowhead.com/guide=4.0.1#whats-next

The next (and last) major patch before the Cataclysm expansion hits will be Patch 4.0.3, "The Shattering." This patch will include all of the world changes, including major topographical changes, new quests, and more! Archaeology will be implemented, the guild leveling system will be fully implemented and most all level 1-80 Cataclysm changes will happen. Players will not be able to create Goblin or Worgen characters, progress past level 80 or fly in Azeroth, however, until a Cataclysm key has been activated on their account.

However, I can't find a blue post that supports this so... take that with a grain of salt.

 

[Interfectum]

on the topic of the cinematic... i'd rate them:

Wrath >> Cata >>>>> BC > Vanilla

I don't think you can beat the Wrath intro. Blizzard created such a cool villain with Arthas and the intro captured that almost perfectly.

I'm curious where Blizzard is going to go after Cataclysm. They did outlands, killed their darth vader and now destroyed the world.

If I had to guess they are going to dial it back and lighten the theme up a bit. Maybe the settings will be more tropical, water based, and possibly a slight pirates theme to it. That or maybe go the skyoshock route and do something in the clouds.

 

[WyndhamPrice]

on the topic of the cinematic... i'd rate them:

Wrath >> Cata >>>>> BC > Vanilla

I don't think you can beat the Wrath intro. Blizzard created such a cool villain with Arthas and the intro captured that almost perfectly.

I'm curious where Blizzard is going to go after Cataclysm. They did outlands, killed their darth vader and now destroyed the world.

If I had to guess they are going to dial it back and lighten the theme up a bit. Maybe the settings will be more tropical, water based, and possibly a slight pirates theme to it. That or maybe go the skyoshock route and do something in the clouds.

I was thinking we'd finally get to plunge ourselves into the Emerald Dream after all this time. Wasn't that one of the expansion concepts "leaked" years ago with some stuff that did actually turn out to be true?

 

[Dina]

About Hallow's End pumpkin crashes: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?sid=1&topicId=27291816177

 

[Dunlop]

About Hallow's End pumpkin crashes: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?sid=1&topicId=27291816177

any chance of getting a sumamry?

(firewall)

thx!

 

[Flib]

I was thinking we'd finally get to plunge ourselves into the Emerald Dream after all this time. Wasn't that one of the expansion concepts "leaked" years ago with some stuff that did actually turn out to be true?

The Emerald Dream was pretty much resolved in the Stormrage book, although the area they banished the nightmare to has a track on the cataclysm soundtrack.

 

[Retro]

on the topic of the cinematic... i'd rate them:

Wrath >> Cata >>>>> BC > Vanilla

See, I'd probably go the reverse. Vanilla is still my favorite because it really focuses on the player as the hero, shows off a lot of the actual world and cultures, and has really great pacing and fantastic music. The opening where you see the dwarf heading towards Ironforge and the choral music kicks in gives me chills every time.

BC was similar, in that it sort of showed the Player Heroes getting all geared up to go fight in Outland.

Cata is cool in that it shows the world again, but the lack of heroes is kind of a let down. Still, very bad ass.

Wrath didn't really impress me. It was cool, don't get me wrong, but... it was just sort of eye candy and didn't really set up a story or tell you anything other than Arthas is a badass, which we already knew and turned out not to be true.

I'm curious where Blizzard is going to go after Cataclysm. They did outlands, killed their darth vader and now destroyed the world.

I think we'll see the Emerald Dream, but I'm hoping we'll see another Outland-esque type excursion. Not to Outland, but through a portal to a completely new, untouched world. Like the Burning Crusade but on a completely new and original front without any kind of foreknowledge, no major settlements, just tons and tons of unexplored territory, new races to ally with, etc.

Call it World of Warcraft: Dark Wilderness. :lol

any chance of getting a sumamry?

(firewall)

thx!

Here you go;
Good Morning Folks!

So, there are reported issues with the Hallows End Boss. Some are a misunderstanding in how the new system works with points, others are an issue related to the cog-wheel issue that's been previously observed in BGs.

Unable to load in, or WoW exiting upon arrival in the instance.
This could be a number of things, many cases may be related to the cog-wheel issue that is already known.

I'd recommend everyone reload their UI, just in case. If it's the cog-wheel issue - avoiding mousing over is one way to avoid it happening. Our developers are still looking into that issue.

To do a full and proper reset UI....
To do a full reset UI, you will want to save your addons in another spot if you wish to preserve them.

Then rename/delete or move your WTF, Cache and Interface folders while WoW is shutdown. Reboot your system.

Note, if you are running Vista make sure your permissions are set so it does not undo your changes.


Character already exists
This error can be encountered when trying to log back in. This means that character is still online and has not yet auto-logged. One thing to try is logging into another character on that realm - that will often force the first one offline. This condition also usually resolves itself within 5ish minutes or so on it's own. If logging into another character does not seem to free the first, or it doesn't log out on it's own, you will want to submit a petition for further Game Master assistance.

Empty Bags
It is possible since the conversion from badges to points to receive an empty bag. It's also possible what would have been in that bag is unique and you already have the item - so it's not going to show. Your points should be awarded when you open the container.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Edit: beaten!

Looks like a basic "reload your UI/the default UI" response.

 

[Interfectum]

Wrath didn't really impress me. It was cool, don't get me wrong, but... it was just sort of eye candy and didn't really set up a story or tell you anything other than Arthas is a badass, which we already knew and turned out not to be true.

Yeah... Arthas was something they should've treated with kid gloves. But they really cocked him up in Wrath emasculating him at virtually every single turn and whored him out beyond all belief marketing wise. And then the way they ended it, making him easily replaceable was like the final slap in the face to anyone who liked the Frozen Throne expansion. :lol

 

[The Lamonster]

I hate the new "aspect bar" for hunters. I was using that screen real estate and now I can't remove it.

Also, I can't remove the mini-map clock.

 

[Dunlop]

Here you go;

thanks!

Answer seems like a total cough out, moreso because I have tried to stick with the default UI as much as possible, so I probably have maybe 5 addons installed, all of them "up to date"

 

[Azwethinkweiz]

I did Heroic Grim Batol in the beta this morning. We didn't get to finish because people had to go, and it might just be the fact that we had to figure out the fight, but I swear the second boss in there is harder than anything I've had to fight in ICC. I'm liking this ramped up difficulty.

 

[J-Rzez]

Blizzard says they don't release stuff until it's ready to launch a quality product, but I can't believe it this time. I think they were getting way too much heat and got this patch out there too soon. The amount of bugs and glitches contained in this patch is quite remarkable.

- Respawning at the GY with 100hp instead of being a ghost to fly back into the raid zone
- Zoning into a raid, and being in a totally different instance than the rest of the raid
- Mage tables locking up computers
- Lock Soul Wells locking up computers
- Lock Summoning Stones locking up computers
- Bad lag spikes
- Frequent DCs
- Unable to speak to quest givers nor "accept"
- Flying mounts despawning while you're riding them
- Unable to click on "clickable" objects to further progression in dungeons/raids

This stuff has been happening, and way more than usual. The client is very unstable, and I'm actually really surprised they released something like this. I wasn't around for early Vanilla, but I don't remember something so unstable all my years playing this.

 

[Retro]

Yeah... Arthas was something they should've treated with kid gloves. But they really cocked him up in Wrath emasculating him at virtually every single turn and whored him out beyond all belief marketing wise. And then the way they ended it, making him easily replaceable was like the final slap in the face to anyone who liked the Frozen Throne expansion. :lol

Heh, pretty much my thoughts exactly. Arthas should have made less appearances (he has an entire army of undead slaves, why does he need to do anything but sit on his ass and command them?) and when he did show up, show up as the clear victor in every situation. If he shows up, genocide should follow. I mean stuff like strolling into town, killing everyone down to the last woman and child, and raising them as his slaves, all while the player watches it happen.

I would have handled Northrend completely differently though. There were far too many established bases, safe zones and empty terrain. Landing in Northrend should be like landing on Normandy; you're under fire before you even get off the boat. As it was, it was far too friendly of a zone that's supposedly completely under the control of Arthas.

Oh, and Azjol Nerub? Should have been an entirely underground questing area comprised of multiple zones, not a couple of flaky instances. I would have made it damn near equal in size to the land above, so there's questing on the surface and questing below it, in equal proportions (i.e. you could spend half, if not more, of the expansion underground).

 

[Dunlop]

Blizzard says they don't release stuff until it's ready to launch a quality product, but I can't believe it this time. I think they were getting way too much heat and got this patch out there too soon. The amount of bugs and glitches contained in this patch is quite remarkable.

- Respawning at the GY with 100hp instead of being a ghost to fly back into the raid zone
- Zoning into a raid, and being in a totally different instance than the rest of the raid
- Mage tables locking up computers
- Lock Soul Wells locking up computers
- Lock Summoning Stones locking up computers
- Bad lag spikes
- Frequent DCs
- Unable to speak to quest givers nor "accept"
- Flying mounts despawning while you're riding them
- Unable to click on "clickable" objects to further progression in dungeons/raids

This stuff has been happening, and way more than usual. The client is very unstable, and I'm actually really surprised they released something like this. I wasn't around for early Vanilla, but I don't remember something so unstable all my years playing this.

lol, we had all these issues during our ICC run, plus locks unable to summon us in. We called it at LK because we were spending too much time waiting on people to be able to rejoin the raid.

On the topic, should they resolve these issues the current content was not designed with this new system in mind. ICC willl be a joke for anyone. Even before we called it a night, the LK phases were lasting less than half of what they used to

I am breaking every speed record on my daily dungeon runs as bosses are usually dropping in under 20 seconds with poorly geared groups.

I get that the changes needed to be done but with close to 2 months to cata, I feel like I am paying $20 a month to beta test for blizzard as the current WoTLK content has no value at all

 

[Outdoor Miner]

This by far the buggiest Wow has ever been, launch included. Every day I log in hoping today is the day I'll have properly functioning glyphs like the other classes and each day so far has been :sadface.

 

[Willectro]

They better fix this damn game tomorrow.

 

[yacobod]

i played around with 4.0.1 a bit this weekend on my hunter and warrior, i did not get an opportunity to play my dk besides just updating my frost and unholy specs and reglyphing, here are some impressions

warrior: my main spec is protection and my offset is fury, i didnt get a chance to play fury but i hear its lacking at the moment, i will try it out next week though to see it goes, but i didnt really have any issues tanking heroics as prot though, the changes are not that significant really, i was able to chain pull almost at the same speed as i was before, maybe i was more conscience of the changes idk

hunter: i wasnt really that crazy about focus at first, but now it seems ok as i've had some time to play around with it, i think things will improve at 85 when we get cobra shots and some other talents, i've been playing BM mostly, and i have an MM offspec, i think i will stick with BM to 85 though, tamed a corehound and 2 spirit beasts on friday, i dont know if it was dumb luck but i tamed the spirit beast in SBasin and Zul'Drak within like an hour of each other on my first attempt to farm them, i have not played BM since level 70, so never had a reason to go looking for them previously, i dont know how our dps fares in a raid environment since i havent tried it out yet

i did find it annoying to have to regem everything on my warrior and hunter, and was stupid that several of my weapon enchants went missing, same with my boot enchants

 

[Flib]

I hate the new "aspect bar" for hunters. I was using that screen real estate and now I can't remove it.

Also, I can't remove the mini-map clock.

Just use a UI mod. Personally, I like it (and aspects of the wild comes in handy in Cata more than it does currently).

Also, while I was big W3 and Frozen Throne fan, I never thought Arthas was that great of a Villain. I've always like Deathwing / old gods more, and the stories in the Cata beta re all of this are really cool.

I spent some time in Twilight Highlands last night, some really cool quest progression there. The Dragonmaw vs. Wildhammer quests are neat, love all of the Warcraft 2 references. Some pretty vicious stuff.

There is also a large goblin shredder walking around a battlefield yelling "Humans! Come the lick the steel-plated boots of your new God!" which made me chuckle.

 

[CAW]

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=20278 70 PvP weapon and armor vendor. Did this guy at one time require arena points and/or rating? Or was he even there until now? I thought I remember something about him being removed awhile back because I'm pretty sure I looked for DK PvP stuff about a year ago and couldn't find anything.

Anyway, I went there when my rogue dinged 70 last night and he sells pvp gear and weapons for honor. No rating or arena points required! Awesome!

 

[Sai-kun]

I'll probably transfer a toon for $$, but yeah I'll start a goblin for that

If we got a bunch of GAFfers i'd probably start a new toon. But as of right now I'm just dicking around on my server without a guild, so I think it'd actually be fun to level with other GAFfers, too. Hmmmmm...I'll have to start saving a little money.

 

[The Lamonster]

What was so broken about the game that they had to change so much all at once?

Like, what was the broad goal of all the recent changes?

 

[Evlar]

What was so broken about the game that they had to change so much all at once?

Like, what was the broad goal of all the recent changes?

Bring the player, not the class.

 

[The Lamonster]

Bring the player, not the class.

Is that a joke? I thought they were saying that back in the Wrath days...

 

[Flib]

What was so broken about the game that they had to change so much all at once?

Like, what was the broad goal of all the recent changes?

They basically wanted to do a reset on a lot of things before it got too convoluted (specifically the talent trees and different gear stats). They ran into a lot of scaling issues in WotLK, and I think they wanted to put in new structures which allow for easier scaling adjustments. Plus a lot of these redesigns are things they had promised for Wrath or before (Hunters losing ammo/mana, redesign of Warlocks' Soul Shards).

 

[Evlar]

Is that a joke? I thought they were saying that back in the Wrath days...

No, it's not a joke. That's why Heroism/ Bloodlust is being spread around to more classes, that's why hunters were moved from mana to focus and numerous other changes to stats (to reduce the size of loot tables), that's why they created the Mastery system, and so forth.

 

[The Lamonster]

No, it's not a joke. That's why Heroism/ Bloodlust is being spread around to more classes, that's why hunters were moved from mana to focus and numerous other changes to stats (to reduce the size of loot tables), that's why they created the Mastery system, and so forth.

Oh, okay. But what does that phrase really mean? Does it mean that each player should be able to play a class in their own way?

 

[MagicJackBauer]

Three of my friends got Reigns of the Horsemans mount on the first try. I guess the drop rate is up.

 

[Evlar]

Oh, okay. But what does that phrase really mean? Does it mean that each player should be able to play a class in their own way?

Nah, I take it to mean that if you want a healer, you'll be OK taking any of the four healing specs since they all share certain core competencies. If you want a tank, you'll be OK taking any tank spec. And so forth. Also, it reduces the temptation to use the rarity of loot to exclude certain classes, since loot is in general worthwhile to more players than previously, with obvious exceptions such as librams.

It's a fine line to walk since you certainly want each spec to feel different to the players. You don't want Prot pallies to feel like Blood DKs at all. On the other hand you want each healer, for example, to get to roughly the same place in terms of efficiency and throughput, even if they use very different techniques to accomplish it.

 

[The Lamonster]

Nah, I take it to mean that if you want a healer, you'll be OK taking any of the four healing specs since they all share certain core competencies. If you want a tank, you'll be OK taking any tank spec. And so forth. Also, it reduces the temptation to use the rarity of loot to exclude certain classes, since loot is in general worthwhile to more players than previously, with obvious exceptions such as librams.

It's a fine line to walk since you certainly want each spec to feel different to the players. You don't want Prot pallies to feel like Blood DKs at all. On the other hand you want each healer, for example, to get to roughly the same place in terms of efficiency and throughput, even if they use very different techniques to accomplish it.

Okay thanks. So it sounds kind of like a re-balancing of the classes in order to level the playing field.

 

[notworksafe]

Oh, okay. But what does that phrase really mean? Does it mean that each player should be able to play a class in their own way?

No, it means that since buffs/debuffs and other spells are more spread around, you won't be totally screwed if you don't have a certain class in your raid comp.

 

[Confused101]

Didn't experience the DCs until someone summoned me for the weekly raid and my mouse ended up over the summoning stone when I zoned in. WoW completely froze so I killed it. I got back in and zoned into the raid only to wait about 3 minutes for it load. After that, it was fine. We'll see how things go tonight.

And I don't know about you guys, but pugs on my server are really awesome right now. Before, people would rush through heroics and skip bosses just to get their frosts and then leave. Now I'm finding that groups will do full clears of instances and even stick around for more after we're done! I got a little over 1k JP over the weekend. Not bad. I'm half way to the cap and I only converted about 30 frosts to JP coming in.

Lastly, holy crap at the trailer. I love it. Not quite as good as Wrath's but still damn awesome. Wrath's was just really well done with the voiceover of Arthas' father and the rebirth of Sindragosa and Frostmourne and the legions of undead. However, Deathwing is one bad mamajam!

 

[Retro]

Oh, okay. But what does that phrase really mean? Does it mean that each player should be able to play a class in their own way?

The idea behind "Bring the Player, Not the Class" is that certain classes were considered indispensable when raiding (for example, Shamans were the only class with Bloodlust, so it was was vital to always bring a Shaman). Thus, if you had a really awesome player or your best friend that you wanted to play with, but they weren't a class you absolutely need/already had, they had to sit out or the raid would be gimped.

Thus, Blizzard has made sweeping changes to buffs, debuffs and effects so that there isn't really a case where you have to pass up a good/friendly player for a bad/unfriendly player because of raid composition.

It's lead to a lot of class homogenization (though the class structure had a lot of overlap to begin with and they'll always be flawed) and a lot of classes losing things that made them special or unique. It's also changed a lot of stats and gear, and the changes have also lead to a lot of bugs and hiccups, which is to be expected.

Right now we're in a weird spot because we're using Cataclysm stats and talents with Wrath of the Lich King gear and encounters, and everything is balanced around Level 85 numbers... so things don't quite mesh up. It should be sorted out, at least in theory, in December.

 

[Flib]

Yeah, they don't want pugs spamming "LF Tank healer, Pallys only, 8billion k gs, poke at portal"

 

[vilmer_]

Three of my friends got Reigns of the Horsemans mount on the first try. I guess the drop rate is up.

Damn... I ran it on three toons to no avail. I hope I don't have as bad of luck as I did with the Brewfest mounts. I did get a Hallowed Helm though

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I just resubbed. I dusted off my old prot warrior (I quit after I had just started doing Naxx, so I'm mostly geared in heroic purples) and want to start doing heroics to get some heirloom gear for my paladin. Is it difficult to earn the honor points now? I think I need 2400 to get the heirloom chestpiece, but I have no idea how long that will take. Any ideas? (Like how many points do you get per dungeon?)

 

[Tamanon]

My favorite thing about the new changes is being able to be a respectable, dare I say GOOD, tank healer finally on my resto druid. I only started playing a druid in Wrath so I never knew the BC glory days. I tried my best before 4.0.1 though, I was a Nourish fiend.

Tonight I finally dust off my 80 mage that I've had since Vanilla, I dropped her after Karazhan really, only leveled to 80 to forget about her as I was raiding on my Boomkin. But I will definitely be taking her to 85 first. Now to decide on what I want to pair with Tailoring. I have Jewelcrafting right now, but kinda want something self-independent. Probably end up with Enchanting, that'll be "fun" to level.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I like the new lockout system. I'm in the second tier ICC10 group of my guild (sadly), and they got up to Sindragosa without me. We wiped on it a few times on Thursday.

Yesterday I joined a pug and one shotted Putricide, BQ, and Valithria. Couldn't down Sindragosa due to people being retarded (after 5 wipes you'd think people would understand basic mechanics like line of sight during the air phase). I could join another pug today and kill off the early bosses. Definitely like this method.

Although it does suck when alliance finally wins VoA and I realize I can't join 25 man VoA groups because I did it on 10 man lol.

 

[Meier]

Got my 'lock up to 54.. just got to Winterspring. Can you zone into Burning Crusade prior to 60? It has been so long that I honestly can't remember much about it. I am thinking I will go there once I finish this zone as I imagine I'll be around 56 or so and should easily be able to kill 60s.

 

[Evlar]

I just resubbed. I dusted off my old prot warrior (I quit after I had just started doing Naxx, so I'm mostly geared in heroic purples) and want to start doing heroics to get some heirloom gear for my paladin. Is it difficult to earn the honor points now? I think I need 2400 to get the heirloom chestpiece, but I have no idea how long that will take. Any ideas? (Like how many points do you get per dungeon?)

You ought to get about 80 to 100 points per run, dependent on the number of bosses per heroic instance. 16 JP per boss, 23 JP for finishing each heroic. It should go very quickly for you queuing as a tank.

 

[J-Rzez]

lol, we had all these issues during our ICC run, plus locks unable to summon us in. We called it at LK because we were spending too much time waiting on people to be able to rejoin the raid.

On the topic, should they resolve these issues the current content was not designed with this new system in mind. ICC willl be a joke for anyone. Even before we called it a night, the LK phases were lasting less than half of what they used to

I am breaking every speed record on my daily dungeon runs as bosses are usually dropping in under 20 seconds with poorly geared groups.

I get that the changes needed to be done but with close to 2 months to cata, I feel like I am paying $20 a month to beta test for blizzard as the current WoTLK content has no value at all

Oh yeah, lock summons not even working too, forgot about that one.

Here's a real good one I forgot about too:

So the DK ghouls don't like to auto-cast "Claw" anymore, and with dark transformation, it's something to make sure to hit as it's a cleave. So I made a macro with my abilities so it casts is while I'm hitting my main attacks. Problem is, every time I used it with Scourge Strike in particular, it's crash my game. :lol

But yeah, these bugs are basically game-breaking all around. We wiped on LK twice last night and we gave up because even when people turned off "enhance your own spell effects", they couldn't see Defiles on the ground. Couple that in with those other bugs, making it take 10mins to get everyone actually back into the same ICC, it got annoying fast and we called it.

They need to fix this stuff badly.

No horseman mount for me so far.

 

[Meier]

Just use a UI mod. Personally, I like it (and aspects of the wild comes in handy in Cata more than it does currently).

The problem is not the bar, it is the location. It's an absolutely dreadful spot and for them to default to it was mindboggling. Forcing someone to use a mod to make up for a dumb decision is assinine.

I got Dominos but haven't really played my hunter lately as I am kind of enjoying leveling up my twink.