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[Head.spawn]

I wonder how Sean feels. Honest question. Must not be easy being him right now. I also wonder how much some of the stuff he said were planned but had to be cut for some reason.

I don't know man. I'm torn between calling him a liar and just not saying anything because I wasn't in his shoes. I also miss my 60$. A lot.

It's weird that even now, this far past launch, people feel sorry for him. I get that he seemed like a swell guy and honestly when i saw him on stage demoing the game for the first time; i felt like he was a genuiny humble and likeable guy. Looking back on it, nobody made him say any of those things, to be so far off base and hell,he wasn't even playing the PS4 version that day now that i think about it.

He brought this on himself. A little restraint and not overselling your product with lies will go a long way.

 

[drotahorror]

Two denies in a row back to back on Steam.

10 hours played.

What do I do next?

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I'd say that's highly likely. And remember the tweets?

Yeah sure, don't go out and spoil yourself with any research to find out if the game is what we've been selling it as. Figure that part out after we have your money.

I think people are still waiting to see a few years' worth of 'surprises' in the game. I'd love to know what he's referring to.

 

[blastprocessor]

He put himself here. If the PR was managed better we wouldn't be having these threads.

Not just PR but price. Said it all along an indie title for $60 was way too rich compared to the breadth and depth of a quality AAA release.

 

[QisTopTier]

Not just PR but price. Said it all along an indie title for $60 was way too rich compared to the breadth and depth of a quality AAA release.

If it had the promised features it would have been easily worth the 60

 

[Tony Iron Man Stark]

Two denies in a row back to back on Steam.

10 hours played.

What do I do next?

Keep filing manual support tickets.

 

[Alienfan]

I completely disagree and firmly believe the Steam page etc can't be taken in isolation - gamers were very aware of this game for years leading to release. He sold it as something very grand and different to multiple outlets. Barely any of the stuff he said is in the game is in it! No physics, no multiplayer, no 'factions' with any depth, no hacking, no naming of ships, no different ship capabilities or customisation. This has been covered ad nauseum by now.

I'd argue the video on Steam from E3 2014 is downright deceptive. It suggests human (or AI at the very least) flight companions and abilities, animal behaviour that doesn't exist. It shows buildings and locations that aren't even in the game!

He can't use the transparency of Twitter and interviews and tv appearance to push the 'engaged and open developer' thing and then back away form those claims and not expect some kind of blowback.

And I totally understand why people would be angry with him!
Okay how about this. What if I came away very disappointed with The Last of Us because the AI and gameplay shown at E3 was nothing like the final release. Is that enough for a refund? Or what if I had not been following a game aside from the one trailer shown at E3 3 years ago, and decide purchase that game now - just to discover it's nothing like that original trailer. Should I be allowed a refund then? I just think allowing refunds based on developer-press communication, or E3 demos is tricky. Games messages, content mechanics etc change so rapidly. I know No Man's sky is an extreme case for this, but surely you could make the case for getting a refund for almost any game if using "things the developer said/promised" arguments.

 

[benicillin]

It's weird that even now, this far past launch, people feel sorry for him. I get that he seemed like a swell guy and honestly when i saw him on stage demoing the game for the first time; i felt like he was a genuiny humble and likeable guy. Looking back on it, nobody made him say any of those things, to be so far off base and hell,he wasn't even playing the PS4 version that day now that i think about it.

He brought this on himself. A little restraint and not overselling your product with lies will go a long way.

I do feel bad for him. He might have fucked up royally in some regards and the game might have its problems, but the lengths some people have gone to dehumanize him and make him into some kind of comic book villain are kinda gross.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

And I totally understand why people would be angry with him!
Okay how about this. What if I came away very disappointed with The Last of Us because the AI and gameplay shown at E3 was nothing like the final release. Is that enough for a refund? Or what if I had not been following a game aside from the one trailer shown at E3 3 years ago, and decide purchase that game now - just to discover it's nothing like that original trailer. Should I be allowed a refund then? I just think allowing refunds based on developer-press communication, or E3 demos is tricky. Games messages, content mechanics etc change so rapidly. I know No Man's sky is an extreme case for this, but surely you could make the case for getting a refund for almost any game if using "things the developer said/promised" arguments.

Firstly, the E3 trailer is up on the Steam page. Right now.

It's an interesting example but I feel NMS fails in a fundamental way - the game they sold us just isn't there. AI is an important component of a game, of course, but this guy just factually lied about so many elements. He made so many feature claims that are 100% untrue. Maybe 1 or 2 omissions people could forgive but there's documented track record there of him just making shit up. He sold this fake game to people and they're rightfully claiming their money back.

With regards to that Last of Us example, too - i think you'd be entitled to a refund within a certain time period if you realise the game isn't for you. Where I take issue with NMS is that Sean Murray himself suggested that playing longer will reward players with crazier stuff 'near the centre' - another lie.

I can only speak for myself but given I felt stuck with no refund option, I persevered and played some more to see if these claims were true. They're not.

This game is a rare case I think - I doubt many in history would have such a dropoff from wonderment to actual outright resentment. Customers are feeling burned, his silence speaks volumes and has fanned this insanity

 

[TheSpoiler]

And I totally understand why people would be angry with him!
Okay how about this. What if I came away very disappointed with The Last of Us because the AI and gameplay shown at E3 was nothing like the final release. Is that enough for a refund? Or what if I had not been following a game aside from the one trailer shown at E3 3 years ago, and decide purchase that game now - just to discover it's nothing like that original trailer. Should I be allowed a refund then? I just think allowing refunds based on developer-press communication, or E3 demos is tricky. Games messages, content mechanics etc change so rapidly. I know No Man's sky is an extreme case for this, but surely you could make the case for getting a refund for almost any game if using "things the developer said/promised" arguments.

The gameplay from the original trailer was, AFAIK, the same. The AI was not. If you wanted a refund based on that and Sony never corrected or stated that it was pre-alpha or whatever notation people use to indicate that things may change, then that's fine.

If you base your impressions on a singular trailer and things DID get corrected before release, either through official statements or PR speak (ala UC4 and the 60FPS), then no, because the onus is now on the consumer.

It's not tricky. If a company doesn't keep up with their own messages and doesn't correct themselves, they deserve the heat and people deserve refunds for a product that isn't as advertised. It should be like that in any industry, and it's not difficult. Let's not pretend these companies can't do it, because it has been done before.

I do feel bad for him. He might have fucked up royally in some regards and the game might have its problems, but the lengths some people have gone to dehumanize him and make him into some kind of comic book villain are kinda gross.

Can you point these people out? Where is this dehumanization? What does that even mean in the first place?

 

[Head.spawn]

I do feel bad for him. He might have fucked up royally in some regards and the game might have its problems, but the lengths some people have gone to dehumanize him and make him into some kind of comic book villain are kinda gross.

I feel like everyone does deserve a second chance to redeem themselves and he can still do that. A great start would be by communicating with these people; because they have a genuine reason to be mad as hell and it seems like a lot of them feel like the gaming press has essentially given them a free pass where other developers would've been raked over the coals.

Vilifying would be a bit much, i agree. I just think people genuinely have a hard time rationalizing how someone could mislead them so much without it being intentional.

Hopefully he opens the communication sooner than later.

 

[True Fire]

I do feel bad for him. He might have fucked up royally in some regards and the game might have its problems, but the lengths some people have gone to dehumanize him and make him into some kind of comic book villain are kinda gross.

Honestly, it's his fault for making himself the face of this game. People are out for blood, and he's the most obvious target. You don't get a free pass in this industry. Did he really think that he could release a flaming dumpster and not get flack for it?

 

[Salty Hippo]

Probably already discussed here, but what are the chances of a class action lawsuit working for those that can't get a refund?

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I do feel bad for him. He might have fucked up royally in some regards and the game might have its problems, but the lengths some people have gone to dehumanize him and make him into some kind of comic book villain are kinda gross.

Just so we are clear. Sean is a dev, this hopefully means that he has more than two brain cells to rub together.

So, lets establish that Sean is intelligent, even above average I would say, and that he knows how dev works since this isn't his first rodeo by far.

If you are a dev like Sean and you go and market aspects of your game closer and closer to release with a language of absolutes, knowing how dev works and that things could change and also being in a unique position where you know more about the state of every single one of those aspects in the dev cycle than most anyone else... Then you absolutely lied if they didn't make it in and especially so if you don't say anything about it before the flipping thing launches and you are raking in the dough.

This is why a lot of people are upset on top of everything else. He will get no pity from me no matter the reason someone is asking for a refund at this point especially in the light of the silence. I don't think he deserves to make money and be successful off of selling a game based off of lies and misinformation. Furthermore, I don't want to see this crap happen anymore to any other game. Period. It's a smack in the face to all those in the industry who are actually legitimate and work as hard as they can within their means and are transparent and open.

A lot of people are acting like we are taking some sort of pleasure in this and would like this to be the norm. This whole thing sucks, I am well aware of the impact that this might be having on them but people are fed up and they are taking a stand.

I don't want a system where everyone asks for refunds willy nilly either. What I would like to see is more businesses run like CDProject. Where they are more consumer centric instead of money centric and in being so they garner amazing followings of fans and satisfied customers to the point where the piracy that happens with their games doesn't even bother them because the loyal followers and satisfied repeat customers more than make up for it. So that's what I as a consumer am going to strive for.

 

[Doug Heffernan]

I find it hilarious how so many companies are willing to make an exception to refund this specific game. What a disaster.

 

[SirClinksAlot]

Firstly, the E3 trailer is up on the Steam page. Right now.

It's an interesting example but I feel NMS fails in a fundamental way - the game they sold us just isn't there. AI is an important component of a game, of course, but this guy just factually lied about so many elements. He made so many feature claims that are 100% untrue. Maybe 1 or 2 omissions people could forgive but there's documented track record there of him just making shit up. He sold this fake game to people and they're rightfully claiming their money back.

With regards to that Last of Us example, too - i think you'd be entitled to a refund within a certain time period if you realise the game isn't for you. Where I take issue with NMS is that Sean Murray himself suggested that playing longer will reward players with crazier stuff 'near the centre' - another lie.

I can only speak for myself but given I felt stuck with no refund option, I persevered and played some more to see if these claims were true. They're not.

This game is a rare case I think - I doubt many in history would have such a dropoff from wonderment to actual outright resentment. Customers are feeling burned, his silence speaks volumes and has fanned this insanity

I still cant believe they haven't taken that down.

 

[cleveridea]

I'd like to know what happened with the "encounter other players" (ie multiplayer) Was it originally planned and then they realized all the technical difficulties involved, like propagating the damage player A could make to the environment of player B (eg creating craters)?

Has anyone looked into the game files and been able to find a player model?

 

[Kerned]

Probably already discussed here, but what are the chances of a class action lawsuit working for those that can't get a refund?

Probably very low. Even if there were a successful class action suit, people wouldn't necessarily get refunds. You would probably get a 15% coupon code to use on PSN or Steam.

 

[Chucker]

Alright, I wasn't going to pursue this any further, but this rep said the last line and DIPPED.
Beginning snipped for identifying info.

Renato: Thanks I will be happy to start the refund request for you .
Me: Thanks for the quick response.
Renato: My pleasure, so is for No Man's Sky $59.99?
Me: That's correct.
Renato: Great starting the request.
Me: Thanks again.
Renato: I'm still researching this for you. I appreciate your patience.
Me: No worries, take your time.
Renato: I apologize for the refund not being processed at this time. Unfortunately the refund cannot be granted as per all sales being final and a request for refund for this reason has already been requested.
Renato: Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
Me: Could you tell me what was refunded?
Me: Just curious.
Renato: It was some content for Final Fantasy. Thank you so much for taking this issue to our hands. Hope you have an amazing night with your love ones. Take care!
The agent has ended the chat.

He literally ended the chat right after sending the message. The content for FFXIV was the BETA so that I could purchase the bundle that was on sale. I guess I know what I'm doing when they open tomorrow.

 

[Speely]

I'd like to know what happened with the "encounter other players" (ie multiplayer) Was it originally planned and then they realized all the technical difficulties involved, like propagating the damage player A could make to the environment of player B (eg creating craters)

We don't know. What we do know is that there is no code for multiplayer in the game and that players do not have actual models.

Edit: Yes, the game files were looked into shortly after the PC launch.

 

[EatinOlives]

I think people are still waiting to see a few years' worth of 'surprises' in the game. I'd love to know what he's referring to.

I mean, the Center of the Galaxy was certainly a surprise

 

[cleveridea]

We don't know. What we do know is that there is no code for multiplayer in the game and that players do not have actual models.

Edit: Yes, the game files were looked into shortly after the PC launch.

That makes me very suspicious then. I thought maybe they simply deactivated the servers due to a larger than expected load of new players.

I can understand elements like rotating planets not making the final game since they are relatively small aspects of the game, but the complete absence of a multiplayer mode is a very serious difference.

 

[Trojan]

We don't know. What we do know is that there is no code for multiplayer in the game and that players do not have actual models.

Edit: Yes, the game files were looked into shortly after the PC launch.

No code at all for multiplayer? Not even leftover files from something being tested? Aye carumba. That's real damning if they don't address that ASAP, although the window to do that is pretty much closed at this point.

Part of me still wants to believe that Sean got caught up in the whole massive hype train of the game and just didn't have the cajones to say anything and risk fucking up that runaway pre-release locomotive. I would like to believe he just made some huge judgement errors over him being a deceptive villain. However, there's such a discrepancy between his comments and the final game that it doesn't even really matter what his motives were anymore.

 

[Speely]

That makes me very suspicious then. I thought maybe they simply deactivated the servers due to a larger than expected load of new players.

I can understand elements like rotating planets not making the final game since they are relatively small aspects of the game, but the complete absence of a multiplayer mode is a very serious difference.

No code at all for multiplayer? Not even leftover files from something being tested? Aye carumba. That's real damning if they don't address that ASAP, although the window to do that is pretty much closed at this point.

Part of me still wants to believe that Sean got caught up in the whole massive hype train of the game and just didn't have the cajones to say anything and risk fucking up that runaway pre-release locomotive. I would like to believe he just made some huge judgement errors over him being a deceptive villain. However, there's such a discrepancy between his comments and the final game that it doesn't even really matter what his motives were anymore.

Here's the thread that followed the issue in case you wanna dive in:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1263009

 

[Ollie Pooch]

No code at all for multiplayer? Not even leftover files from something being tested? Aye carumba. That's real damning if they don't address that ASAP, although the window to do that is pretty much closed at this point.

There's so much stuff he needs to address that I doubt it will ever happen. I predict they'll just keep trotting out patches and not commenting on peoples concerns - beyond bugs - at all.

 

[jett]

I'd say that's highly likely. And remember the tweets?

Yeah sure, don't go out and spoil yourself with any research to find out if the game is what we've been selling it as. Figure that part out after we have your money.

Those tweets are amazing. Either Sean Murray is a shameless conman or he's just deluded. Or both.

 

[Speely]

Those tweets are amazing. Either Sean Murray is a shameless conman or he's just deluded. Or both.

Given his background and his excellent selling of this game, I doubt he is deluded.

 

[chillybright]

I'd say that's highly likely. And remember the tweets?

Yeah sure, don't go out and spoil yourself with any research to find out if the game is what we've been selling it as. Figure that part out after we have your money.

He wasn't lying about the "surprises". Whether they actually "filled" them though...

 

[CaLe]

Given his background and his excellent selling of this game, I doubt he is deluded.

I think years of development and constant positive media exposure made him put his game on a pedestal. You start seeing your product as something grandiose, when it's really not... You're just on cloud 9.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Those tweets are amazing. Either Sean Murray is a shameless conman or he's just deluded. Or both.

Alas... his followup tweet:

We hope to see those happening... but too many of you are playing right now. More than we could have predicted

 

[frontovik]

I don't approve of those who are just using this as an opportunity to simply get money back after having invested time into the game. Don't be surprised if STEAM doesn't issue a refund and cites their policy. Frankly speaking, I wouldn't be sympathetic if Support suspends or issues a violation on your account for abusing the storefront.

I have not purchased a copy of No Man's Sky, but I've bought games that I subsequently became disappointed with, but was willing to give a chance despite its flaws. If the game was simply unplayable, I would've demanded an immediate refund the minute I encounter the issue, not an hour or two hours later.

 

[Speely]

I think years of development and constant positive media exposure made him put his game on a pedestal. You start seeing your product as something grandiose, when it's really not... You're just on cloud 9.

That's not only very possible but understandable for someone under that kind of pressure and scrutiny. Not knocking the guy for buying into his own hype or anything. Sheesh, I could imagine doing the same if I were in his position and put on the spot like that while in command of a big new game.

I guess the real issue comes down to how he dealt with it.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I'd say that's highly likely. And remember the tweets?

Yeah sure, don't go out and spoil yourself with any research to find out if the game is what we've been selling it as. Figure that part out after we have your money.

 

[Speely]

I don't approve of those who are just using this as an opportunity to simply get money back after having invested time into the game. Don't be surprised if STEAM doesn't issue a refund and cites their policy. Frankly speaking, I wouldn't be sympathetic if Support suspends or issues a violation on your account for abusing the storefront.

I have not purchased a copy of No Man's Sky, but I've bought games that I subsequently became disappointed with, but was willing to give a chance despite its flaws. If the game was simply unplayable, I would've demanded an immediate refund the minute I encounter the issue, not an hour or two hours later.

You haven't played the game. It's a specific and special case. Take it from those who did buy it and have played it.

 

[sazzy]

Wow this is bad. It's on yahoo news now from idigitaltimes.

Let this be a lesson to Sean Murray and Hello Games and anyone else who tries to pull this shit next time. This game just went from a million seller to most likely sub 1mil.

The First Impressions video on that page says, about No Man's Sky, "the game is everything we were told it would be."

Shit website.

 

[Z3M0G]

This whole debacle has got to force some altering of refund policies, and hopefully is enough to bring Sony and Microsoft into the arena. It's about time they had a legit documented policy regarding refunds.

That being said, it's going to be really tough to define a rock-solid refund policy with something as complicated as current video games. And I'm pretty confident that Valve/Sony/Microsoft/etc are not going to have a refund policy that is not clearly documented. If they don't, it will be a nightmare for those companies trying to sort through those requests and validate on a case-by-case basis.

So how do you do that? Time limit is the easy answer that's at least a good start for Valve, but that will not hold up in cases like these that have severe game defects dozens of hours in. Each user of a game, particularly on PC, can have a wildly different experience from the same game so trying to craft a refund policy incorporating "your experience" would be insanely difficult.

I could see refund policies where there is still a short term window for any reason you don't like it, but a separate long-term window that is reserved for more formal complaints relating to technical issues. I could see some process where a consumer would fill out a more detailed form stating the issue in detail and then if it can be shown by the consumer a refund could be processed. These companies would probably also need to include verbiage that gives developers X amount of time to patch major issues.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

It doesn't require a crackdown on refund policy...

It requires a crackdown on quality and honesty in advertising.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

 

[Speely]

I just embarrassed myself in a crowded cafe by laughing at this way too loudly. Thanks

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I just embarrassed myself in a crowded cafe by laughing at this way too loudly. Thanks

That original interview is one of the most awkward things ever.

 

[Speely]

That original interview is one of the most awkward things ever.

It really is. At the time, it could be attributed to honest awkwardness and was even charming. In retrospect, it's a train wreck.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

It really is. At the time, it could be attributed to honest awkwardness and was even charming. In retrospect, it's a train wreck.

Totally agree. *shakes head implying no*

 

[GSG Flash]

I just watched the ending. I actually think this game was just a big "fuck you" to gamers.

 

[Speely]

Totally agree. *shakes head implying no*

I would reply to this, but I can't see your post.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

For all the people that are having real problems I hope you get a refund. All others that just want a refund because they can I hope your system bricks!!

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I would reply to this, but I can't see your post.

Shame, there's heaps of hidden features and surprises.

 

[Kurt Angle]

It doesn't require a crackdown on refund policy...

It requires a crackdown on quality and honesty in advertising.

exactly

got my refund from MS after they launched a broken product with the master chief collection as well. i will even dispute with my credit card company if needed. you're selling me products that is broken and using false advertisement to take my money.

That is clear cut fraud, 100% no sympathy for the "poor hard working developer." I work just as hard if not harder for my 60$

 

[SeanR1221]

I've been following this loosely since I don't own the game, but has Sean really gone radio silent since the game came out? Rofl, he eventually has to say something.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I've been following this loosely since I don't own the game, but has Sean really gone radio silent since the game came out? Rofl, he eventually has to say something.

Yeah, why haven't you said anything yet, Sean?

 

[Valentus]

People forget. How many times Molyneux has done the same shit to all of us and still we bought his games?

In 3 years maybe we wont see a No Mans Sky 2 from Hello Games (or whatever Sean's Murray studio would be called in that time), but a game with a very similar concept, and the hype train will start again. People forget.

What i dont understand is why didnt nobody from HG made a statement about all this, not even a generic "we are working on solving the problems. Our space community is very important to us. Vulcan Salute"... This all silence only made the damage to HG's image more devastating.

 

[SeanR1221]

Yeah, why haven't you said anything yet, Sean?