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[Gaius Cassius]

There is still the fact that quite a few Hispanics voted Trump this election. The 'fuck you, got mine' types like my dad for example. As i understood it the outcome was a mix of lack of the Black vote and that, yes?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

white people could stop:

incarcerating black men
making it harder to vote before and on election day
gerrymandering
fucking up whole communities by limiting access to quality healthcare, education, and jobs.



I am unaware what the election of Lincoln has to do with black people

You're saying "White people" like the average white person has any ability to stop any of this. The only way to get any of that changed is by voting people in who can change it.

What you're listing isn't a solution of how to change anything, it's a list of grievances.

 

[anaron]

Imagine how bad it would have been if Bernie got the nomination. Non-white voters chose Hillary 4:1 over him in the primaries.

 

[kirblar]

There is still the fact that quite a few Hispanics voted Trump this election. The 'fuck you, got mine' types like my dad for example. As i understood it the outcome was a mix of lack of the Black vote and that, yes?

One thing they've noticed in survey data is that a number of hispanics will start identifying as white as time passes when they didn't initially.

 

[Deepwater]

That's not how percentages work. WI's GOP passed systemic voter suppression laws.

I'm not claiming that they didn't ( because I know that). I'm saying 12% of the black vote in WI is a lot less than 12% of the black vote elsewhere.

Or maybe I'm doing the math wrong? Stats is not my strong suit I'll admit

 

[Gaius Cassius]

One thing they've noticed in survey data is that a number of hispanics will start identifying as white as time passes when they didn't initially.

And that fucking terrifies me. My dad does that as well. Until he gets racially profiled and pulled over. Suddenly he's upset and is Hispanic again, lol.

 

[Deepwater]

You're saying "White people" like the average white person has any ability to stop any of this. The only way to get any of that changed is by voting people in who can change it.

What you're listing isn't a solution of how to change anything, it's a list of grievances.

yes, let me draw up the master plan of how to get my oppressor to stop oppressing me.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

yes, let me draw up the master plan of how to get my oppressor to stop oppressing me.

My point was that the only way to fix any of what you're mad about is to do what you're saying that people shouldn't bother doing. Or at the very least shouldn't be judged for not doing.

Literally nothing you listed can be fixed without Government officials stepping in, and you're agreeing with someone saying that it doesn't matter if black people vote or not.

 

[Warm Machine]

I'm not sure I understand how you can stop someone from voting.

 

[tbm24]

There is still the fact that quite a few Hispanics voted Trump this election. The 'fuck you, got mine' types like my dad for example. As i understood it the outcome was a mix of lack of the Black vote and that, yes?

A lot of Hispanics have much less than other Hispanics. In particular males who easily blend in to the majority and in turn have to deal with less shit than my own brown skin. That and Trump taps into a love for machismo is many of those same people.

 

[Deepwater]

My point was that the only way to fix any of what you're mad about is to do what you're saying that people shouldn't bother doing. Or at the very least shouldn't be judged for not doing.

Literally nothing you listed can be fixed without Government officials stepping in, and you're agreeing with someone saying that it doesn't matter if black people vote or not.

voter apathy is intensified when someone doesn't believe in the system they're supposed to be participating in. This applies to literally all demographics of non voters.

the system has never worked for black people so why would they be motivated to vote?

And I'm not even advocating not voting. But I'm not going to shame black folk who don't. The right includes abstention as much as people want to fight it

edit: white supremacy is a culture that is maintained and propagated by white moderates, which is in fact, the majority of white folk. If it was just about policy then we woulda been equal citizens in 1968

 

[Flo_Evans]

I am getting tired of these studies. It's everyone's fault. White dudes, black dudes. Young people, old, the establishment, the bernie bros, the never trumpers.

We as Americans allowed perhaps the most American man possible to be elected. Everyone was so sure he would fail no one did shit to stop him.

 

[kirblar]

I'm not claiming that they didn't ( because I know that). I'm saying 12% of the black vote in WI is a lot less than 12% of the black vote elsewhere.

Or maybe I'm doing the math wrong? Stats is not my strong suit I'll admit

The margins in WI, PA, and MI were all absurdly tight. Trump won by only 70K votes across all 3 states(compared to Clinton's multi-million vote popular lead) and he only won by 22K in Wisconsin. Wisconsin's black population is 338K. 12% of that is 40K (note this includes kids, so the real number is lower.

Clinton's loss was death by a thousand cuts, and voter suppression was very much one of them.

I am getting tired of these studies. It's everyone's fault. White dudes, black dudes. Young people, old, the establishment, the bernie bros, the never trumpers.

We as Americans allowed perhaps the most American man possible to be elected. Everyone was so sure he would fail no one did shit to stop him.

Yes, a lot of things are to blame because Trump won by a tiny sliver of a margin. No one single thing explains it. If you are looking for simple answers here you are going to be eternally disappointed.

 

[Hubbl3]

I'm not sure I understand how you can stop someone from voting.

Here you go:

https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd

And just a teaser of what's in the linked article:

In 2013, North Carolina — led by the GOP — approved a law that eliminated same-day voter registration, cut a full week of early voting, barred voters from casting a ballot outside their home precincts, scrapped straight-ticket voting, and got rid of a program to pre-register high school students who would turn 18 by Election Day. That law also included one of the nation’s strictest voter ID requirements.

Federal courts struck down most of the law after finding that it was passed with the intention to suppress African-American voters “with almost surgical precision.” The court noted that the lawmakers first studied which racial demographics used which voting methods, and then moved to eliminate those favored by black residents. The law was a perfect example, the judge wrote, of “the inevitable tendency of elected officials to entrench themselves by targeting groups unlikely to vote for them.”

 

[Deepwater]

The margins in WI, PA, and MI were all absurdly tight. Trump won by only 70K votes across all 3 states(compared to Clinton's multi-million vote popular lead) and he only won by 22K in Wisconsin. Wisconsin's black population is 338K. 12% of that is 40K (note this includes kids, so the real number is lower.

Clinton's loss was death by a thousand cuts, and voter suppression was very much one of them.

Yes, a lot of things are to blame because Trump won by a tiny sliver of a margin. No one single thing explains it. If you are looking for simple answers here you are going to be eternally disappointed.

hmmm, no you're right. apologies

 

[tbm24]

I am getting tired of these studies. It's everyone's fault. White dudes, black dudes. Young people, old, the establishment, the bernie bros, the never trumpers.

We as Americans allowed perhaps the most American man possible to be elected. Everyone was so sure he would fail no one did shit to stop him.

America at large failed but millions did their duty to vote against the man. I did my part and denied the bigot my vote.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

voter apathy is intensified when someone doesn't believe in the system they're supposed to be participating in. This applies to literally all demographics of non voters.

the system has never worked for black people so why would they be motivated to vote?

And I'm not even advocating not voting. But I'm not going to shame black folk who don't. The right includes abstention as much as people want to fight it

No argument there, but it seems hypocritical to talk about how bad things are and then give a pass to people who put no effort forth to change what they think is wrong in the most logical and effective way they have influence.

Personally, I agree with you that people shouldn't be judged for not voting. I'll probably go back to not voting after last election. At least until they get rid of the electoral college. But it's silly to say that voting the right people into office hasn't resulted in gains for black people.

 

[theignoramus]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/05/clinton-foundation-haiti-117368

I read that article a while ago so I dont know offhand if all my HRC grievances are covered. But from Haitian news and people that live/travel there:

- Hillary blackmailed a political candidate into dropping out of presidential elections so that the US could put their backed puppet Sweet Mickey. One political party (which the West hasn't compromised) was outright banned from participating.

- Shortly after winning Mickey praised Haiti's former brutal CIA backed Duvalier dictatorship- red flag. Rules incompetently and has a vested interest in drug trafficking.

- So much Earthquake money raised went straight to Western contractors, the tourism industry, and corrupted officials. There are still major tent cities 7 years later. International spotlight shone to help raise $ for the poor and destitute, and that went straight to the wealthy.

- She shutdown a minimum wage increase that had already passed legislatively, siding with manufacturers.

- Western groups have been drilling hard for resources. Anything found will not benefit the common Haitian.

TLDR: The West never got over 1804s slave revolt and since at least 1915 the US and other Western nations have regime changed, occupied, and looted Haiti (all while smearing the island in their media). A democratic right of self-determination is off the table for Haiti and the Clintons have been on board with the West's agenda for decades.

Clinton was clearly better for this country. I just couldn't vote for her.

Yeah the Clinton name is absolute dirt among Haitians.

 

[Deepwater]

No argument there, but it seems hypocritical to talk about how bad things are and then give a pass to people who put no effort forth to change what they think is wrong in the most logical and effective way they have influence.

Personally, I agree with you that people shouldn't be judged for not voting. I'll probably go back to not voting after last election. At least until they get rid of the electoral college. But it's silly to say that voting the right people into office hasn't resulted in gains for black people.

to you.

and I never said that voting never solved anything, cause it works out great for white people.

I'm saying that the black vote is a marginalized vote in a system that has to be shaken down post election to see a modicum of progress. I never said it wasn't important, but I disagree with rhetoric that explicitly or implicitly suggests that black people would be better off, in 2017, if we just got up and voted (as if we don't already)

 

[Warm Machine]

Here you go:

https://thinkprogress.org/2016-a-case-study-in-voter-suppression-258b5f90ddcd

And just a teaser of what's in the linked article:

Ugh. That seems highly illegal.

 

[SneakersSO]

Seems like your problem that you can't let something go that happened 20 years ago and has been repeatedly apologized for.

I'm sure the current state of affairs is really good for you.

Honestly, the way Hillary Clinton handled that lone BLM supporter who tried to confront her with the specific 'super predator' quote was pretty awful. I know many within my hometown community that completely shut her out after that.

And its stuff like this why I hope HRC & the Clinton's just completely move away from politics & focus on fundraising & charity efforts from now on.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

to you.

and I never said that voting never solved anything, cause it works out great for white people.

I'm saying that the black vote is a marginalized vote in a system that has to be shaken down post election to see a modicum of progress. I never said it wasn't important, but I disagree with rhetoric that explicitly or implicitly suggests that black people would be better off, in 2017, if we just got up and voted (as if we don't already)

People have given you multiple examples of how voting in the right people benefitted black people.

Of course there is no promise of it, but a better future is more likely with the right people in office than not.

 

[kirblar]

Honestly, the way Hillary Clinton handled that lone BLM supporter who tried to confront her with the specific 'super predator' quote was pretty awful. I know many within my hometown community that completely shut her out after that.

And its stuff like this why I hope HRC & the Clinton's just completely move away from politics & focus on fundraising & charity efforts from now on.

It's a good example of why the Dems need to continuously nominate young candidates. People who remember the '90s get the context of just how bad the crime was at that point. But if they don't, they're looking at cities today confused and have no idea of what the world was like prior to the current two urban generations not suffering from systemic lead poisoning due to leaded gasoline.

 

[theignoramus]

And that fucking terrifies me. My dad does that as well. Until he gets racially profiled and pulled over. Suddenly he's upset and is Hispanic again, lol.

This is why people need to be very careful about the alliances they form and always keep one eye open. Theres no telling who will ditch you at the drop of a hat once they see an opportunity to align with the dominant society. African Americans learned this lesson the hard way with each new wave of European immigrant that Anglo-America would shit all over, then welcome into the fold of Whiteness.

 

[Toparaman]

My conclusion on this topic is that Hillary was a bad candidate and next time let's run somebody who wasn't a politician in 2001.

That's pretty much my takeaway. Decent politician, bad presidential candidate.

There's no point in blaming the American public either. It's completely unproductive.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I'm interested in having this discussion. You know I'm interested because you and I have had this discussion. Just not within the context of this bullshit WP headline. I absolutely think a fault of the Democratic party and Clinton's campaign strategy was that we saw Trump as an opening to win over Republican voters, and we abandoned our base to make a play for them. We should never do that again. We should never stop talking to our voters. The right is a lost cause.

If Hillary had run her primary strategy in the general, she would have beat Trump. I truly believe that. .

I'm not convinced she had much of a chance of winning the majority of the voters that flipped for Trump, not in this political climate, or with how much misinformation was (and had been beforehand) being trotted out at alarming levels. I fully believe many rust-belt minds were made up relatively quickly and I don't think Clinton ever had an answer for them. (the undecideds are a bunch of knuckleheads, as always)

I definitely never liked seeing the dem nominee out there courting Republican voters though (nor seemingly extolling the virtues of someone like Reagan), which probably did work in some part, getting a decent amount of suburban women to swing her way, but with the issue being it wasn't happening in the right places, because the EC is absolute nonsense.

 

[Deepwater]

People have given you multiple examples of how voting in the right people benefitted black people.

Of course there is no promise of it, but a better future is more likely with the right people in office than not.

I'm saying the BLACK vote does not win freedom. Black people didn't vote consistently democrat until 1964, of which Goldwater lost by a huge landslide. Nixon got 32% of the black vote in 1960, and nobody voted for LBJ until the fall of 64, where the CRA of 64 was signed that previous summer (because he wasn't president by election, he was president by succession). And that's not to say that LBJ didn't need EXTREME prodding in the form of political activism to sign that shit.

Again, the context here has always been the black vote.

 

[TestOfTide]

It's a good example of why the Dems need to continuously nominate young candidates. People who remember the '90s get the context of just how bad the crime was at that point. But if they don't, they're looking at cities today confused and have no idea of what the world was like prior to the current two urban generations not suffering from systemic lead poisoning due to leaded gasoline.

Plus there is the fact that younger voters don't remember that support for the 94 crime bill included a lot of AA leadership, even if it was with caveats:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ed_the_1994_crime_bill_championed_by_the.html

I'm saying the BLACK vote does not win freedom. Black people didn't vote consistently democrat until 1964, of which Goldwater lost by a huge landslide. Nixon got 32% of the black vote in 1960, and nobody voted for LBJ until the fall of 64, where the CRA of 64 was signed that previous summer (because he wasn't president by election, he was president by succession). And that's not to say that LBJ didn't need EXTREME prodding in the form of political activism to sign that shit.

Again, the context here has always been the black vote.

You act as though LBJ was only reluctantly supporting stuff like the CRA and VRA. Kennedy was too timid about it, yes, but LBJ? Dude literally BULLIED senators and congressmen into supporting his agenda.

On domestic issues, LBJ may as well be called the Social Justice Warrior POTUS.

 

[Aaronology]

whew. okay. so lets break down the posts in context.



The system is not set up for us to succeed, regardless of the actors in place. Obama being president for 8 years should have taught you that. Simply "Voting" does not change that.



Because violence didn't happen at political rallies, nobody is lynching niggas in 2017, and police aren't killing black people and getting away with it? You can trumpet the importance of voting without using shoddy "we actually got it really good" rhetoric...

This is the point where I stopped reading your post and determined this was a really, really stupid conversation. And I'm not going to finish reading it, either. I don't have the patience to argue with a hypocrite who whines about being misrepresented in one breath and then accuses me of claiming black people "got it really good" in the next. You know precisely how insulting that is, and if that's the type of discourse we're having, I'll hard pass.

Let me clear this up, though: At no point have I said voting is all we need, which renders every facet of this tête-à-tête we're having null. For a black person in America, voting is merely another aspect of civil activism, not some separate entity to be gauged against others in its effectiveness. I dropped numerous photographs of political protests in the very post you took offense to; Clearly I was not advocating "just vote and do nothing else!"

Also, are you claiming things in this country would be better for us if we, as an entire demographic, had abstained in every election throughout history that we have played a significant, determining factor?

Remember I asked you not to dodge that question? You did. Why? Because the obvious answer to this is "no." But you were caught between admitting that voting has served our interests over the last several decades and propagating this nonsense rhetoric of it being a rigged, fruitless endeavor. I admit, I am left a little curious at what sort of contribution a person who believes in the futility of voting can have in a thread about the very subject.

Now, my feelings on black people abstaining has been covered in this thread. I'm sorry if you have difficulty parsing my frustration with those of us who opt not to vote, but as this no longer feels like a sincere conversation I'm going to also pass on reiterating my posts from the last page.

 

[Gattsu25]

Flashback: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/505586/

Instead of expanding the electorate, [campaign chairman Steve] Bannon and his team are trying to shrink it. “We have three major voter suppression operations under way,” says a senior official. They’re aimed at three groups Clinton needs to win overwhelmingly: idealistic white liberals, young women, and African Americans.​

The reporters, Joshua Green and Sasha Issenberg, offer some more detail on what that looks like:

On Oct. 24, Trump’s team began placing spots on select African American radio stations. In San Antonio, a young staffer showed off a South Park-style animation he’d created of Clinton delivering the “super predator” line (using audio from her original 1996 sound bite), as cartoon text popped up around her: “Hillary Thinks African Americans are Super Predators.” The animation will be delivered to certain African American voters through Facebook “dark posts”—nonpublic posts whose viewership the campaign controls so that, as [campaign digital guru Brad] Parscale puts it, “only the people we want to see it, see it.” The aim is to depress Clinton’s vote total. “We know because we’ve modeled this,” says the official. “It will dramatically affect her ability to turn these people out.”​

This wasn’t entirely unknown—Monica Langley reported two weeks ago that Trump was aiming for depressed turnout. What’s incredible is that Trump’s advisers called it “voter suppression.” When you’re talking about “suppressing” black votes, it’s a good sign you’re not competing for them, and this is messaging malpractice, since it makes the work seem nefarious. That’s all the more true because Republicans around the country have spent the last decade instituting laws that make it more challenging to vote—measures that they say are necessary to prevent election fraud, but critics say actually amount to voter suppression.​

"Suppressing" African American voters using ads that were targeted to specific individuals was one of the Trump team's objectives.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I'm saying the BLACK vote does not win freedom. Black people didn't vote consistently democrat until 1964, of which Goldwater lost by a huge landslide. Nixon got 32% of the black vote in 1960, and nobody voted for LBJ until the fall of 64, where the CRA of 64 was signed that previous summer (because he wasn't president by election, he was president by succession). And that's not to say that LBJ didn't need EXTREME prodding in the form of political activism to sign that shit.

Again, the context here has always been the black vote.

Of course the black vote alone isn't going to win anything, especially freedom. They only make up 13% of the country. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't contribute to change in any way they can.

And even if LBJ did need prodding, that doesn't mean that there weren't alternatives who that prodding wouldn't have mattered to. Make no mistake, governement officials don't give a shit about you either way. No matter which side of the aisle they're on. But one side has clearly made a point to pretend they care enough to actually change things from time to time. They're probably doing it so they look good and have the ability to use it as leverage to further their career, but it's more than any one is going to get from the other side.

 

[FoneBone]

I disagree. If there is no culpability to be laid at the feet of the electorate for how they vote or do not, you are conversely stating that Trump's success can not be blamed on the Americans who came out in support of him. Such support could merely be written off as the result of an effective campaign and not indicative of the moral and educational failings of a large portion of voters. I find this idea unpalatable and reject it completely. I firmly believe that in a democracy there is a level of responsibility borne by those who wield the ultimate power to determine elections.

I see deepwater is taking on some of this, but I don't consider non-voting to be at all comparable to voting for Trump.

voter apathy is intensified when someone doesn't believe in the system they're supposed to be participating in. This applies to literally all demographics of non voters.

the system has never worked for black people so why would they be motivated to vote?

And I'm not even advocating not voting. But I'm not going to shame black folk who don't. The right includes abstention as much as people want to fight it

edit: white supremacy is a culture that is maintained and propagated by white moderates, which is in fact, the majority of white folk. If it was just about policy then we woulda been equal citizens in 1968

Exactly. People who want to excoriate non-voters don't seem willing to accept the reality that the psychology of voting, for many, many people, is not predicated on policy analysis (see the myriad: "lol, special snowflakes not wanting to vote for someone who didn't 'inspire' them" hot takes post-election).

 

[TestOfTide]

Of course the black vote alone isn't going to win anything, especially freedom. They only make up 13% of the country. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't contribute to change in any way they can.

And even if LBJ did need prodding, that doesn't mean that there weren't alternatives who that prodding wouldn't have mattered to. Make no mistake, governement officials don't give a shit about you either way. No matter which side of the aisle they're on. But one side has clearly made a point to pretend they care enough to actually change things from time to time. They're probably doing it so they look good and have the ability to use it as leverage to further their career, but it's more than any one is going to get from the other side.

This whole idea that LBJ only supported the CRA reluctantly is such BS.

http://washingtonmerrygoround.com/lbj-put-bully-bully-pulpit/

Johnson literally used the JFK assassination as fucking leverage to pass the CRA. That's how fucking dirty the man was willing to go to get the CRA passed.

Does that sound like reluctant support to you?

 

[manzoman96]

I added to the more white people voted category.

Spoiler

First time voting. Everyone I voted for lost

 

[Zen_Arcade]

This whole idea that LBJ only supported the CRA reluctantly is such BS.

http://washingtonmerrygoround.com/lbj-put-bully-bully-pulpit/

Johnson literally used the JFK assassination as fucking leverage to pass the CRA. That's how fucking dirty the man was willing to go to get the CRA passed.

Does that sound like reluctant support to you?

No, it doesn't. I can't say I'm particularly educated on the situation. That's actually why I started that sentence off with "Even if...", because I wasn't sure if it was true or not, but even if it was, it wouldn't be a great defense for his logic.

 

[Deepwater]

Of course the black vote alone isn't going to win anything, especially freedom. They only make up 13% of the country. That doesn't mean that people shouldn't contribute to change in any way they can.

And even if LBJ did need prodding, that doesn't mean that there weren't alternatives who that prodding wouldn't have mattered to. Make no mistake, governement officials don't give a shit about you either way. No matter which side of the aisle they're on. But one side has clearly made a point to pretend they care enough to actually change things from time to time. They're probably doing it so they look good and have the ability to use it as leverage to further their career, but it's more than any one is going to get from the other side.

Again, I have to reiterate that I never said, nor advocated for black people not voting, nor implied that it wasn't important.

And I'm not going to sit here and go along with the rhetoric that democrats as being the lesser of the two evils and be satisfied that black people have to be okay with it.

One party wants to stick the knife deeper in my back
the other wants to slightly twist it out slowly.

Fuck both of them. But that being said, EYE don't have any problem with black people deciding to being forced into only voting for democrats for the mythical carrot stick of progress. EYE don't think we should have to vote for equality.

So when _some_ black people do decide to not vote, I do not blame them.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Again, I have to reiterate that I never said, nor advocated for black people not voting, nor implied that it wasn't important.

And I'm not going to sit here and go along with the rhetoric that democrats as being the lesser of the two evils and be satisfied that black people have to be okay with it.

One party wants to stick the knife deeper in my back
the other wants to slightly twist it out slowly.

Fuck both of them. But that being said, EYE don't have any problem with black people deciding to being forced into only voting for democrats for the mythical carrot stick of progress. EYE don't think we should have to vote for equality.

So when _some_ black people do decide to not vote, I do not blame them.

I mean, you kind of did imply it when you responded to someone asking for alternative solutions from someone who was straight up advocating that black people don't need to vote.

 

[akira28]

If they didn't vote because they were too lazy, I hold it against them. If they didn't vote because they truly feel they have been disenfranchised, and neither candidate was able to convince them otherwise? I won't blame them.

If they voted for Trump to piss in the ear of democracy, they can wear this around their necks like a dead duck until its all over.

 

[Measley]

Fucking hilarious to see people blame the black vote for Hillary's loss when she got like 88% of the black vote. Meanwhile, the majority of white men and women (even college-educated women) went for Trump, and 30% of Hispanics voted for Trump.

As someone else said, you can't expect black people to keep saving the country from crazy right-wing politicians. It would be nice if middle and working class white voters woke the hell up and realized they're being screwed by the GOP just like everyone else.

 

[banktree]

Yes, unknown politicians always poll better than politicians with history. Nobody had ever heard of Sanders before the primary had started. His career shows little to nothing, and Hillary wouldn't do any kind of negative campaigning against Sanders. If he actually got to a real race, the Republicans would have killed him with constant audio from his own lips. You don't say you're a Socialist in this country and win anywhere outside of New England. Not to mention the shit about Breadlines and Castro. If you like polls so much, look at the exit polls that flat out state that voters do not want a President to the left of Obama.

Sanders is a standin for "Generic Democrat" in polling, despite the irony of him not being a Democrat. He had no realistic chance in the election.

 

[TestOfTide]

Fucking hilarious to see people blame the black vote for Hillary's loss when she got like 88% of the black vote. Meanwhile, the majority of white men and women (even college-educated women) went for Trump, and 30% of Hispanics voted for Trump.

White Women WITH college degrees voted more for Hillary than Trump:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-couldnt-win-over-white-women/

Which is actually remarkable considering that was a demographic that Romney had won.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

But one side has clearly made a point to pretend they care enough to actually change things from time to time. They're probably doing it so they look good and have the ability to use it as leverage to further their career, but it's more than any one is going to get from the other side.

Are white Democrat and Republicans really pretending to care? Blacks are dying disproportionately from the leading causes of death. There's a massive economic gap with whites. People are frequently being mistreated by government employees like the police. Blacks are receiving ultimatums that they'll soon be kicked out of their homes after their kids have been poisoned by lead. They're prime targets for fraud. White Democrats and Republican do more or less whatever they want and prioritize other things. Doesn't seem like they care at all to any meaningful degree.

 

[madstarr12]

Those drops to African Americans in Wisconsin and Michigan look absolutely brutal, likely due to the fact that she received less votes than John Kerry did in 2004. The campaign did make visits to Wisconsin and Michigan throughout the last month of the campaign, though mainly without Hillary herself, mostly with surrogates and allies:

Saginaw & Flint, MI (Bill, Oct. 3rd)
Madison & Green Bay, WI (Bernie, Oct. 5th)
Dearborn, Ann Arbor, Lansing & Grand Rapids, MI (Bernie, Oct. 6th)
Madison & Milwaukee, WI (Warren, Feingold, Oct. 7th)
Milwaukee, WI (Bill, Oct. 8)
Detroit, MI (Hillary, Oct. 10)
Racine, WI (Chelsea, Oct. 10)
La Crosse, Stevens Point, Madison, WI (Chelsea, Oct. 25)
Muskegon & Battle Creek, MI (Chelsea, Oct. 29)
Warren & Taylor, MI (Kaine, Oct. 30)
Appleton & Madison, WI (Kaine, Nov. 1)
Kalamazoo & Traverse City, MI, Milwaukee, WI (Bernie, Nov. 2)
Eau Claire & Oshkosh, WI (Chelsea, Nov. 2)
Milwaukee, WI (Chelsea, Nov. 3)
Detroit, MI (Hillary, Nov. 4)
Madison, WI (Biden, Nov. 4)
Milwaukee, Green Bay & La Crosse, WI (Kaine, Nov. 6)
Lansing, MI (Bill, Nov. 6)
Allendale, MI (Hillary, Nov. 7)
Ann Arbor, MI (Obama, Nov. 7)
​

So yes, the campaign did go to these states at some point a month before the election, perhaps not enough, but definitely not zero times. Unfortunately, I guess it wasn't enough to get people out to vote for her.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Yes, unknown politicians always poll better than politicians with history. Nobody had ever heard of Sanders before the primary had started. His career shows little to nothing, and Hillary wouldn't do any kind of negative campaigning against Sanders. If he actually got to a real race, the Republicans would have killed him with constant audio from his own lips. You don't say you're a Socialist in this country and win anywhere outside of New England. Not to mention the shit about Breadlines and Castro. If you like polls so much, look at the exit polls that flat out state that voters do not want a President to the left of Obama.

Sanders is a standin for "Generic Democrat" in polling, despite the irony of him not being a Democrat. He had no realistic chance in the election.

Golly gee who else had "no chance" of winning the primary let alone the presidential race?

 

[pigeon]

Golly gee who else had "no chance" of winning the primary let alone the presidential race?

This argument will be with us forever.

"If you jump off this building you will fall and die."
"You know what else was guaranteed to fall and die? TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN! GERONIMOOOO"

 

[wildfire]

Golly gee who else had "no chance" of winning the primary let alone the presidential race?

Only those who didn't understand the Republican party couldn't see Trump winning the primary which was most democrats.


Republican majority lives in an alternate reality but most dems refused to acknowledge what that mindset was trying to express.


The election was another matter.

 

[ClayKavalier]

When people say they want stuff like the health care bill to harm Trump voters so they face consequences for voting him in, do they wish the same for people who didn't vote?

 

[CrocMother]

When people say they want stuff like the health care bill to harm Trump voters so they face consequences for voting him in, do they wish the same for people who didn't vote?

Who cares, those people are idiots.

We should want our country to get better and succeed, regardless of who is in office.

 

[Gutek]

White people were a mistake, they are nothing but trash.

 

[ClayKavalier]

Who cares, those people are idiots.

We should want our country to get better and succeed, regardless of who is in office.

I agree, just curious what those people think of this. Do people who indirectly helped elect him by not voting equally "deserve" what's coming their way?