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[pigeon]

Look I agree that voter suppression is still a big issue, but voter APATHY is still the bigger issue.

I agree that democrats should tackle voter disenfranchisement, but I think that tackling voter apathy is just as important. Voter Apathy is the reason why democrats don't vote in as many elections as republicans.

You can't distinguish with these numbers between people who didn't vote because they didn't care and people who didn't vote because the barrier to entry was too high.

"I got sick and didn't go" or "I had work that day" aren't apathy, they're voter suppression in action.

When Oregon enacted automatic voter registration, two-thirds of the newly registered voters turned out. In other words, 60% of unregistered Oregonians were actually interested enough in voting to do it, they just couldn't overcome the hurdle of getting registered.

Step one to getting unlikely voters to vote is to make voting as easy as physically possible to do.

On one hand I agree that having people like Manchin kinda undermine's the democrats' message on social justice.

But on the other hand, I do want an actual 50 state strategy attempted and funded. And I want it attempted and funded in ALL 50 states and all 438 districts.

So for now I will definitely agree that democrats running in anything magenta or bluer shouldn't be running as a Joe Manchin type.

This is literally endorsing normalizing white supremacy.

"How do we get more black people to vote? Also I want to still be able to have racists in the party" is not a question with a useful answer.

Just run people who aren't racists in all 50 states and all 438 districts. "50-state strategy" doesn't have to mean "some racists strategy." It means field a candidate that actually supports the Democratic platform. Will the ones in West Virginia lose? Mostly. But some of them will win. You never know! And then they'll have a mandate to actually vote Democratic in Congress.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

No, but I've seen several people talk about this and about poor campaigning as though there's no causal link.

That's because everyone expects black voters to support Dems because the only other option actively hates us, especially when it's as egregious as a Trump. To be honest I think Trump getting the Republican nomination made some people give up because it was a sign of how much hate white voters, who are the majority, were harboring.

 

[MThanded]

Always gotta put the team on our back doe.

 

[royalan]

I get where you are coming from, obviously black people should not be condemned as a group for 2016 just because there wasn't record turnout of minorities in 2016. 2016's results was SPECIFICALLY the fault of rural white voters.

But I do think there DOES need to be a conversation about how to tackle voter apathy of certain groups that lean heavily towards democrats, because such a conversation could help insure that Rural White Voters aren't as easily able to outvote the urban and suburban areas in each state and district.

I'm interested in having this discussion. You know I'm interested because you and I have had this discussion. Just not within the context of this bullshit WP headline. I absolutely think a fault of the Democratic party and Clinton's campaign strategy was that we saw Trump as an opening to win over Republican voters, and we abandoned our base to make a play for them. We should never do that again. We should never stop talking to our voters. The right is a lost cause.

If Hillary had run her primary strategy in the general, she would have beat Trump. I truly believe that. .

 

[Aaronology]

Turnout being down should be considered a failing of the campaign, not voters.

I disagree. If there is no culpability to be laid at the feet of the electorate for how they vote or do not, you are conversely stating that Trump's success can not be blamed on the Americans who came out in support of him. Such support could merely be written off as the result of an effective campaign and not indicative of the moral and educational failings of a large portion of voters. I find this idea unpalatable and reject it completely. I firmly believe that in a democracy there is a level of responsibility borne by those who wield the ultimate power to determine elections.

 

[TestOfTide]

You can't distinguish with these numbers between people who didn't vote because they didn't care and people who didn't vote because the barrier to entry was too high.

"I got sick and didn't go" or "I had work that day" aren't apathy, they're voter suppression in action.

When Oregon enacted automatic voter registration, two-thirds of the newly registered voters turned out. In other words, 60% of unregistered Oregonians were actually interested enough in voting to do it, they just couldn't overcome the hurdle of getting registered.

Step one to getting unlikely voters to vote is to make voting as easy as physically possible to do.

I'm not saying it's black and white. But until democrats take back control, our only option is to minimize apathy to the point where every democratic voter treats voting the way Gaming-GAF treats console and game launches.

This is literally endorsing normalizing white supremacy.

"How do we get more black people to vote? Also I want to still be able to have racists in the party" is not a question with a useful answer.

Just run people who aren't racists in all 50 states and all 438 districts. "50-state strategy" doesn't have to mean "some racists strategy." It means field a candidate that actually supports the Democratic platform. Will the ones in West Virginia lose? Mostly. But some of them will win. You never know! And then they'll have a mandate to actually vote Democratic in Congress.

True. I guess I am just looking at what the DNC had to do to win huge in 2006 and 2008. The best comparison is that when we had the number of seats in 2009 as we did, it was with a lot of pro-life democrats and democrats that won in districts that actually voted for McCain. And while the Senate was kinda a shitshow with the filibuster, Pelosi was very much able to count on the votes of those not-so-perfect democrats when she needed those votes.

But you are right that it damages us nationally to allow for racists to represent our party.

I'm interested in having this discussion. You know I'm interested because you and I have had this discussion. Just not within the context of this bullshit WP headline. I absolutely think a fault of the Democratic party and Clinton's campaign strategy was that we saw Trump as an opening to win over Republican voters, and we abandoned our base to make a play for them. We should never do that again. We should never stop talking to our voters. The right is a lost cause.

If Hillary had run her primary strategy in the general, she would have beat Trump. I truly believe that. .

Agreed on a national scale, although to be fair, our "appeal to moderate republicans" tactic did work surprisingly well in certain suburban areas. I think in the next couple of decades we are going to see that play for those suburban vote start paying off if we manage to make suburban areas start voting more and more like the urban areas to the point where it's not simply urban vs rural, but actually urban +suburban vs rural.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

This is literally endorsing normalizing white supremacy.

"How do we get more black people to vote? Also I want to still be able to have racists in the party" is not a question with a useful answer.

Just run people who aren't racists in all 50 states and all 438 districts. "50-state strategy" doesn't have to mean "some racists strategy." It means field a candidate that actually supports the Democratic platform. Will the ones in West Virginia lose? Mostly. But some of them will win. You never know! And then they'll have a mandate to actually vote Democratic in Congress.

I don't think what you're saying really qualifies as a 50 state strategy. For instance, I grew up in WV and can tell you, statistically and anecdotally, it's a very white state. Like, 94% white. It doesn't make sense to run a candidate who preaches about black lives matter there because, sadly, voters' empathy doesn't stretch nearly as far as their self-interest. So I'm not sure a guy like Manchin is really wrong for the state. We run someone to the left of him and we'll end up with a Republican who votes with us none of the time as opposed to a blue-dog that we can generally rely on when it counts.


Ideally, as demographics shift, we'll need fewer and fewer blue dogs to get things done. For now, though, it's either Manchin or a republican.

 

[Deepwater]

I disagree. If there is no culpability to be laid at the feet of the electorate for how they vote or do not, you are conversely stating that Trump's success can not be blamed on the Americans who came out in support of him. Such support could merely be written off as the result of an effective campaign and not indicative of the moral and educational failings of a large portion of voters. I find this idea unpalatable and reject it completely. I firmly believe that in a democracy there is a level of responsibility borne by those who wield the ultimate power to determine elections.

so...the electoral college?

 

[not psycho]

Absurd.

In 2013 the supreme court gutted the voting rights act. 14 states added new voting restrictions. Meanwhile, 2012 was an unusual year for voting, with Black voters turning out better than White voters despite already prevalent voter suppression.

So we're saying that a unique election, involving the first Black president, should be the baseline going ahead? Even as voting rights are gutted?

Better candidates and campaigns, and combating voter suppression, that makes sense. Asking Black people to repeat a unique turnout lead without the unique candidate, every time, in the face of increasing voter suppression, is ridiculous.

 

[Eidan]

When I saw this headline, the first thing I thought is, "How do we stop white people from voting so terribly?"

 

[RoninChaos]

I know some of this was due to voter suppression, but man, I just can't imagine any black voter not looking at the situation and saying, 'Well, I'm not sure about that, but I sure as fuck will vote against the other option.' I don't really see how we didn't see record turnout from all minority groups to be honest.

So much of the coverage of this election out Hilary and Donald Trump on the same footing as far as both being "bad". I think that played a huge part. The purity tests from the Bernie bros didn't help ether. At all. Especially when, as flawed as Hilary was, people's perceptions of her when it came to things like Goldman Sachs, were just flat out fucking wrong. Especially now that we have a government run by millionaires and billionaires, put there by the guy who fucking fooled everyone into thinking he's a populist.

For older people especially, I think Trump represents the American dream. Here's a rich guy who does what he wants and seems to be successful. He acts like he's a champion of the common man and he's anything but. He got a head start in life that very few get. Instead of that being called out people act like he's self made and they want to be him. Americans have this really stupid idea that we can all become millionaires if we just work hard. That was the old American dream. The one that existed in the 50s and 60s. The same dream that boomers snatched away from everyone once they got theirs. And the fact that people still think the American dream works the same way speaks to the ignorance of the populace for how money actually works. For most people money is a means to get goods or services. For people in that tip top 1%, money is just a tool to get more money. Trump is creating policy to make rich people richer and poor people even poorer. All while selling the idea that he cares about people. And people put that same narrative on Hilary, when she worked tirelessly to make people's lives better.

Let's not even get into the double speak either. Anything that will hurt people they seem to be for and they dress those types of hurt up in nice sounding names and coded words. Look at the health care bullshit the house passed. "We want to give access to health care to everyone!" Of course that sounds good but everybody already has access. You can go to the hospital when you want. There's a big fucking difference between access to healthcare and actually have real healthcare. But these dumb mother fuckers eat it up like it's free fucking ice cream.

People are fucking stupid.

 

[The One and Done™]

Allow me to clarify. Trump won because Hilary is an egomaniac. She was never going to beat Trump. Her slogan was "I'm with her". The last time I checked "her" is not an actual position to get behind. It was blindingly selfish of her. It just had to be her. And her hubris got Trump elected. She didn't give people something to vote FOR. But she certainly have something for people to vote against.

 

[RoninChaos]

Hilary is an egomaniac? Compare to Trump?! That dick cheese is going to get us killed with his fucking twitter account. You can't be fucking serious.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm interested in having this discussion. You know I'm interested because you and I have had this discussion. Just not within the context of this bullshit WP headline. I absolutely think a fault of the Democratic party and Clinton's campaign strategy was that we saw Trump as an opening to win over Republican voters, and we abandoned our base to make a play for them. We should never do that again. We should never stop talking to our voters. The right is a lost cause.

If Hillary had run her primary strategy in the general, she would have beat Trump. I truly believe that. .

Yes, and given the data at the time, I would have probably done the same thing.

Unfortunately, the plan failed for 2 reasons:
1.) Republicans will fall in line for virtually anybody. To degrees I would have never thought possible before the election. The only exception was Utah.
2.) Comey made the strategy backfire. Creating apathy and an excuse for those Republicans who could not stomach Trump and further depressing Dem turnout. Of which might have been mediated by focusing more on Dems.

If either of these did not come to pass, it's entirely possible that we would instead being saying: "Wow, what a great strategy!", it would also have helped down-ticket more in R+ areas.

 

[Aaronology]

Niggas in Michigan can't even get clean water and live in shacks a short distance from Downtown Detroit, and WI has voter suppression laws.

You expect us to take faith in an antagonistic state & federal government enough to vote?

It's not even a matter of "faith", but recognizing what avenues we have to affect change and using them. Seriously, jWILL, how else do you think the system becomes less antagonistic? Plot it out for me. How do you think we've gotten to the point where all we have to worry about is historically mundane and passive voter suppression and not outright violence, lynchings and government endorsed terrorism? It didn't happen magically! If happened because innumerable black Americans had faith in this flawed system enough to risk their lives to progress said system to the point that we now have to risk considerably less to do the same.

I look at the face of the black dude in the last image and it frustrates me almost beyond words that in the year Twenty Seventeen I'm having a discussion over the legitimacy of employing one's right to vote. All that effort, just so generations later we could whine about not feeling inspired to save our own dumb asses.

 

[Deepwater]

It's not even a matter of "faith", but recognizing what avenues we have to affect change and using them. Seriously, jWILL, how else do you think the system becomes less antagonistic? Plot it out for me. How do you think we've gotten to the point where all we have to worry about is historically mundane and passive voter suppression and not outright violence, lynchings and government endorsed terrorism? It didn't happen magically! If happened because innumerable black Americans had faith in this flawed system enough to risk their lives to progress said system to the point that we now have to risk considerably less to do the same.



I look at the face of the black dude in the last image and it frustrates me almost beyond words that in the year Twenty Seventeen I'm having a discussion over the legitimacy of employing one's right to vote. All that effort, just so generations later we could whine about not feeling inspired to save our own dumb asses.

Not a single landmark instance of civil rights progress for African Americans was solved by voting. Not the 13th Amendment, not Brown v. Board, not CRA of 64 OR 68.

Not saying voting isn't important, but when you look at our progress rarely does our disenfranchisement (or lack thereof) has anything to do with it. Make a case about doing it for the ancestors or whatever, but don't misrepresent our history as if we ever (or will ever, should things remain the same) vote our way to freedom

 

[RoninChaos]

Niggas in Michigan can't even get clean water and live in shacks a short distance from Downtown Detroit, and WI has voter suppression laws.

You expect us to take faith in an antagonistic state & federal government enough to vote?

The fuck kind of answer is this? I guess all those black people who gave up everything to make sure you had a voice had it wrong. I mean the system sucks right? No sense in fighting it. Might as well put those chains back on willingly if you're so eager to not have a voice.

 

[Ravensmash]

Niggas in Michigan can't even get clean water and live in shacks a short distance from Downtown Detroit, and WI has voter suppression laws.

You expect us to take faith in an antagonistic state & federal government enough to vote?

What's the solution?

 

[SamuelSupreme]

Maybe the other side should have placed an option up that didnt refer to our kids as super predators?

And we're done. You Hilary fans need to GTFO your high horse. There's not one single Black Person you can blame for this L. Thats on Hilary and racist white people.

 

[pigeon]

Not a single landmark instance of civil rights progress for African Americans was solved by voting. Not the 13th Amendment, not Brown v. Board, not CRA of 64 OR 68.

Not saying voting isn't important, but when you look at our progress rarely does our disenfranchisement (or lack thereof) has anything to do with it. Make a case about doing it for the ancestors or whatever, but don't misrepresent our history as if we ever (or will ever, should things remain the same) vote our way to freedom

I mean, the Thirteenth Amendment probably doesn't happen without, you know, the election of Abraham Lincoln.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

It's not even a matter of "faith", but recognizing what avenues we have to affect change and using them. Seriously, jWILL, how else do you think the system becomes less antagonistic? Plot it out for me. How do you think we've gotten to the point where all we have to worry about is historically mundane and passive voter suppression and not outright violence, lynchings and government endorsed terrorism? It didn't happen magically! If happened because innumerable black Americans had faith in this flawed system enough to risk their lives to progress said system to the point that we now have to risk considerably less to do the same.



I look at the face of the black dude in the last image and it frustrates me almost beyond words that in the year Twenty Seventeen I'm having a discussion over the legitimacy of employing one's right to vote. All that effort, just so generations later we could whine about not feeling inspired to save our own dumb asses.

None of the major human rights victories gained by Blacks in the US were won by voting.

 

[Deepwater]

What's the solution?

white people could stop:

incarcerating black men
making it harder to vote before and on election day
gerrymandering
fucking up whole communities by limiting access to quality healthcare, education, and jobs.

I mean, the Thirteenth Amendment probably doesn't happen without, you know, the election of Abraham Lincoln.

I am unaware what the election of Lincoln has to do with black people

 

[Dirca]

How many more times is a "study" or news story going to be on this? It's been at least one a month since 11/9

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

I mean, the Thirteenth Amendment probably doesn't happen without, you know, the election of Abraham Lincoln.

And if he could save the Union without freeing a single slave he would. The 13th Amendment was going to happen with or without Lincoln. The ballot didn't free the slaves.

 

[pigeon]

And if he could save the Union without freeing a single slave he would.

Well, you know, you have to have a public position and a private position on these things.

Lincoln's correspondence is like the Bible, it's constantly contradicting itself. I tend to believe he said that knowing that he didn't believe the Union could be preserved with slavery.

I don't really see how you get the Thirteenth Amendment without the Civil War. But sure, it's unprovable and off-topic for this thread.

 

[Trojita]

The numbers were always going to drop without a black candidate in the running, contrary to what others were saying on here before the election. Then you have people apathetic about Hillary and apparently not fearful enough of a Trump presidency (possibly because they thought Hillary was an inevitability without their help).

 

[akira28]

Pretty sad.

We (and I'm talking about African American voters) need to do better before we get around to blaming anyone else for the election results.

If Sessions and Bannon were more palatable to you than Clinton and whatever she brought to the table, you probably need a history lesson.

single digit percentage change in the voting metrics of a minority based off of a historic and unprecedented turnout the previous session...versus double digit support for Trump from groups that were actually vocally targeted for negative policy BY Trump? One was expected, the deflation of voting numbers from Obama to Clinton (who was the expected clear winner, btw). The other was completely unexpected, Trump winning and carrying the women vote and a sizable percentage of the hispanic vote.

Personal responsibility is one thing, but I'm not eager to spread the mud on my sweater just because there's plenty of it to go around. Black people in America owe no one any mea culpas over Trump's election.

These states could have made it easier to vote, but no they actually made it harder.

 

[Aaronology]

Not a single landmark instance of civil rights progress for African Americans was solved by voting. Not the 13th Amendment, not Brown v. Board, not CRA of 64 OR 68.

Not saying voting isn't important, but when you look at our progress rarely does our disenfranchisement (or lack thereof) has anything to do with it. Make a case about doing it for the ancestors or whatever, but don't misrepresent our history as if we ever (or will ever, should things remain the same) vote our way to freedom

We could not vote for the government that added the 13th, obviously. Brown v. Board was catalyzed by the involvement of the NAACP, who came to prominence by focusing on litigation and legislation. And both Kennedy and LBJ won significant portions of the nonwhite vote in 60 and 64 respectively, paving their way to the White House and allowing Johnson to be in the position to sign the CRA into law in the first place.

Your attempt to argue voting and political activism has not been extremely significant to the advancement of black people in the US seems really misplaced.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Allow me to clarify. Trump won because Hilary is an egomaniac. She was never going to beat Trump. Her slogan was "I'm with her". The last time I checked "her" is not an actual position to get behind. It was blindingly selfish of her. It just had to be her. And her hubris got Trump elected. She didn't give people something to vote FOR. But she certainly have something for people to vote against.

Her slogan wasn't "I'm with her"

Dumb people got Trump in

 

[Aaronology]

I am unaware what the election of Lincoln has to do with black people

Ok. I feel you're being intentionally obtuse now. Please clarify. Are you arguing that voting is pointless, or that voting is specifically pointless for African Americans?

Also, are you claiming things in this country would be better for us if we, as an entire demographic, had abstained in every election throughout history that we have played a significant, determining factor?

Please don't dodge this second question.

 

[Deepwater]

We could not vote for the government that added the 13th, obviously. Brown v. Board was catalyzed by the involvement of the NAACP, who came to prominence by focusing on litigation and legislation. And both Kennedy and LBJ won significant portions of the nonwhite vote in 60 and 64 respectively, paving their way to the White House and allowing Johnson to be in the position to sign the CRA into law in the first place.

Your attempt to argue voting and political activism has not been extremely significant to the advancement of black people in the US seems really misplaced.

Don't misrepresent what I said. I said voting, alone, is not the path to freedom. Not once did I mention or posit that political activism isn't/wasn't important.

 

[akira28]

for me, Trump was the thing to vote against.
other people voted against their indignation, still some others voted against their better interests. and other people didn't vote because so-and-so had it in the bag. and some misguided fools voted for Bernie anyway...

I don't blame Trump. he should have never had a shot. I do blame Hillary's campaign for not getting the furnaces burning as hot as 2012. but that's not what this thread is about. we're supposed to be blaming those fewer blacks.

commence th' jigglin.

 

[not psycho]

None of the major human rights victories gained by Blacks in the US were won by voting.

None of them huh. Let's just stick to the last decade.

Obamacare?

Or is the fact that too many Republicans were voted in, preventing the expansion of health care from being better, proof that voting has no effect?

The Voting Rights Act? Which was partially struck down in 2013?

The 5-4 ruling, authored by Chief Justice John Roberts and joined by Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, ruled in Shelby County v. Holder that “things have changed dramatically” in the South in the nearly 50 years since the Voting Rights Act was signed in 1965.

Every one of the 5 were appointed by Republicans.

 

[Aaronology]

Don't misrepresent what I said. I said voting, alone, is not the path to freedom. Not once did I mention or posit that political activism isn't/wasn't important.

Please point to where I claimed "voting alone" is the path to freedom, Deepwater. Please don't attempt to chastise me for misrepresentation when you're engaging in it yourself to argue a point that was never in contention.

 

[OG Shaka Zulu]

Well, you know, you have to have a public position and a private position on these things.

Lincoln's correspondence is like the Bible, it's constantly contradicting itself. I tend to believe he said that knowing that he didn't believe the Union could be preserved with slavery.

I don't really see how you get the Thirteenth Amendment without the Civil War. But sure, it's unprovable and off-topic for this thread.

Lol touche. I want to read up on Lincoln one of these days. From my understanding though, didn't John Brown's attack on Harper's Ferry get the ball rolling with secession?

 

[mo60]

single digit percentage change in the voting metrics of a minority based off of a historic and unprecedented turnout the previous session...versus double digit support for Trump from groups that were actually vocally targeted for negative policy BY Trump? One was expected, the deflation of voting numbers from Obama to Clinton (who was the expected clear winner, btw). The other was completely unexpected, Trump winning and carrying the women vote and a sizable percentage of the hispanic vote.

Personal responsibility is one thing, but I'm not eager to spread the mud on my sweater just because there's plenty of it to go around. Black people in America owe no one any mea culpas over Trump's election.

These states could have made it easier to vote, but no they actually made it harder.

Trump lost the women vote by like 13 points. He won the white women vote by more then romney did. Both Obama in 2012 and Hilary in 2012 lost the white women vote.

 

[kirblar]

The GOP is implementing voter suppression across the country specifically because they want to reduce the amount of non-white and young people voting in elections.

If your response to issues not getting solved is to go "I'm not going to vote!", congratulations. You've just done what they wanted and they didn't even have to pass a law to do it.

 

[akira28]

Trump lost the women vote by like 13 points. He won the white women vote by more then romney did. Both Obama in 2012 and Hilary in 2012 lost the white women vote.

I meant white women. minority women voting for trump? no way.

 

[zero_suit]

When I saw this headline, the first thing I thought is, "How do we stop white people from voting so terribly?"

Same. This loss is on them.

 

[kirblar]

When I saw this headline, the first thing I thought is, "How do we stop white people from voting so terribly?"

Getting larger %s of them living in diverse areas helps on that front. There's a gigantic gap between the voting patterns of suburbs/cities and rural areas.

 

[not psycho]

Getting larger %s of them living in diverse areas helps on that front. There's a gigantic gap between the voting patterns of suburbs/cities and rural areas.

Have to get rid of gerrymandering at the same time.

Wyoming is 90+ % white and each of their votes counts 3.6 times as much as someone in California. If some of them move, it will just increase the voting power of the ones left.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Call me crazy, but I would have guessed that black voter turnout would be at an all time high for the first black president. You could argue that a drop off was inevitable

 

[Deepwater]

Ok. I feel you're being intentionally obtuse now. Please clarify. Are you arguing that voting is pointless, or that voting is specifically pointless for African Americans?

Also, are you claiming things in this country would be better for us if we, as an entire demographic, had abstained in every election throughout history that we have played a significant, determining factor?

Please don't dodge this second question.

whew. okay. so lets break down the posts in context.

It's not even a matter of "faith", but recognizing what avenues we have to affect change and using them. Seriously, jWILL, how else do you think the system becomes less antagonistic?

The system is not set up for us to succeed, regardless of the actors in place. Obama being president for 8 years should have taught you that. Simply "Voting" does not change that.

Plot it out for me. How do you think we've gotten to the point where all we have to worry about is historically mundane and passive voter suppression and not outright violence, lynchings and government endorsed terrorism?

Because violence didn't happen at political rallies, nobody is lynching niggas in 2017, and police aren't killing black people and getting away with it? You can trumpet the importance of voting without using shoddy "we actually got it really good" rhetoric

It didn't happen magically! If happened because innumerable black Americans had faith in this flawed system enough to risk their lives to progress said system to the point that we now have to risk considerably less to do the same.

Lots of black people got beaten, imprisoned, or murdered protesting for their rights in 1964 and lots of black people are being beaten, imprisoned, or murdered protesting for their rights in 2017. You talk about how things are different, I see lots of things as the same.

I look at the face of the black dude in the last image and it frustrates me almost beyond words that in the year Twenty Seventeen I'm having a discussion over the legitimacy of employing one's right to vote. All that effort, just so generations later we could whine about not feeling inspired to save our own dumb asses.

My issue comes that your depth of knowledge (or lack thereof) of black political ideology and movements and hating-ass rhetoric because you've deluded yourself into believing that progress in this country is dictated by the African American vote (which you ARE implying by saying we're not "inspired to save our own dumb asses"). I said nobody voted their way to freedom and you've failed to demonstrate how that isn't the case. "save our own dumb asses" as if WE are responsible for this fucking situation. As if WE are responsible for poor white america being literally willing to DIE so that white supremacy is upheld.

We can't save our own dumb asses cause white women literally went with the rapist instead of one of their own. You can make an argument of the importance of voting (Which, again, I already said was important) without trying to make it look like we're self defeating idiots. THAT is what the fuck I take offense to.

There is tons of literature out there on why all kinds of people don't fucking vote, maybe instead of trying to pathologize and shame black people today for not voting maybe pick up a book.

 

[kirblar]

Call me crazy, but I would have guessed that black voter turnout would be at an all time high for the first black president. You could argue that a drop off was inevitable

Sure, but when you have WI w/ a 12% drop as opposed to the 4% nationwide average, it's pretty clear something else was going on on top of that.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Sure, but when you have WI w/ a 12% drop as opposed to the 4% nationwide average, it's pretty clear something else was going on on top of that.

Yeah that's a good point. Doesn't explain the stronger white voter turnout either I suppose

 

[akira28]

Call me crazy, but I would have guessed that black voter turnout would be at an all time high for the first black president. You could argue that a drop off was inevitable

This was actually argued way back in 2014. That there would be drop off. Not to mention that this wasn't supposed to be a down to the wire election. Black people had no place else to go but Hillary. And all Hillary had to do was do better with them than Bernie. That's not a high bar.

 

[Deepwater]

Sure, but when you have WI w/ a 12% drop as opposed to the 4% nationwide average, it's pretty clear something else was going on on top of that.

wisconsin had 6% black population, compared to the 12-13% national average.

If you're only talking percentage points it makes sense because 100 black people not voting in Wisconsin looks worse than 100 black people not voting in Alabama.

 

[Big Green Anus]

No we don't. We (african Americans) have been propping this party up for decades, and even with this decline, Clinton's share of Black voters was still higher than any other ethnic group. It's everyone else who needs to do better.

Perfectly well said. This is similar to the Prop 8 when white liberals were blaming "The Blacks" on that bill passing. I would not be surprised to see more decline from blacks for the Democratic party if they continue this blame game even though there are the only group that votes the highest for them.

 

[TestOfTide]

Not a single landmark instance of civil rights progress for African Americans was solved by voting. Not the 13th Amendment, not Brown v. Board, not CRA of 64 OR 68.

None of the major human rights victories gained by Blacks in the US were won by voting.

Sorry but I gotta call bullshit on this.

One of the reasons that the CRA and VRA passed into law was because Kennedy and Johnson were voted into office and Johnson won reelection in 1964. While Kennedy was too timid to actually get shit done, LBJ was literally willing to do shit like THIS to get the CRA and VRA passed:

And every vote in 1964 that rejected Goldwater and gave LBJ's party a historic supermajority in congress allowed for LBJ to pass some much needed shit, including a constitutional amendment banning poll taxes.

And if he could save the Union without freeing a single slave he would. The 13th Amendment was going to happen with or without Lincoln. The ballot didn't free the slaves.

If Douglas had won, explicit slavery would have lasted at least another decade. Lincoln winning sent a powerful message to the southern slavery states.

Trump lost the women vote by like 13 points. He won the white women vote by more then romney did. Both Obama in 2012 and Hilary in 2012 lost the white women vote.

Yes, but Trump only won the white women vote because non-college-educated white women voted like their male counterparts.

Hillary actually won among college educated white women, a group that previously had been won by Romney.

 

[kirblar]

wisconsin had 6% black population, compared to the 12-13% national average.

If you're only talking percentage points it makes sense because 100 black people not voting in Wisconsin looks worse than 100 black people not voting in Alabama.

That's not how percentages work. WI's GOP passed systemic voter suppression laws.