It wasn't full lol
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WrestleMania |OT| Look at the adjective,
- Thread starter Sephzilla
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MaulerX
Member
As someone who has followed Stings career from the Jim Crockett days, I can tell you that when a match is not booked for Stings opponent to submit, Sting NEVER locked the Scorpion fully and NEVER fully sat down on it. It's just a way to give his opponent wiggle room to move around and reach the ropes.
The commentary was ruining a lot of things last night to such a point I cut the volume almost all the way down. I didn't even know Rollins was coming down until they cut to him entering the arena.
ShadowsFell
Member
My oh my, what a bizarre show.
HokieHavok
Member
Lesnar's stint in the UFC definitely gave him a credibility that no other superstar outside of Kurt Angle has touched. Hard to say exactly how things would be different had he never left, but I'm glad it worked out the way it did. A dominant champion who lurks in the shadows and sadistically chews up elite superstars is one hell of a novelty. He's so damn over he's not even a face or a heel anymore. He's a spectacle. I can't think of anyone else in the history of the business who could have pulled that off outside of a prime Undertaker.
My main problem is not the come back, but how little do finishers mean nowadays. They should make the finishers big deals, but people now kick out of them left and right.
Since Cybit brought Bryan into the conversation, his finisher (the running knee) was protected for year and a half until Reigns kicked out of it, that was a huge deal.
But going on three Lesnar matches, it took three F5s to beat Taker, I can't remember how many did Cena take on Summerslam but it was more than one since he did one at the beginning of the match, and Reigns took four F5s last night, the last one wasn't a pin since Lesnar was actually selling and then Rollins came in.
So yeah, the finishers need to become a bigger deal again, Reigns kicking out of Bryan's running knee impressed me for how it had been protected as devastating move, but the F5 is something that isn't protected and it's a shame. Same goes for every finisher of every guy in the company, even if they are jobbers.
My solution for that would be, counter the finisher, perfect example with Reigns and Bryan, instead of kicking out twice of the knee, Reigns countered with a spear and got the pin and another example from last night, Orton countered the Curb Stomp into an RKO and won.
So if a finishing move doesn't hit, it is more "believable" that way in my opinion. If no one kicks out of a F5, a Curb Stomp, an RKO, an AA, a ZigZag, etc, next time someone actually does it'll be a huge deal for that guy who didn't get pin with it and turned the match around.
Going back to last night's match, had Reigns only kicked out of one F5, the one at the beginning, and then the second F5 would have been the one prior to Rollins entrance which Lesnar didn't get to do the cover, it would have been less bullshit.
The Horror the horror
Banned
It was sad seeing the NWO come out, they looked like a trio who escaped a nursing home for inmates.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I hate outdoor wrestlemanias in the sun.
pauljeremiah
Gold Member
I wish the network has the option to turn off the commentary
I do like Brock's counter of generally "pick the guy out of the air and F5 his ass". When he caught Seth, I legitimately thought he was going to destroy Seth and pin him and walk out champion. I think Lesnar is one of the few people who has been built up to kick out of finishers and not make it seems too over the top; the Superman Punch crescendo was something to behold, as Reigns kept laying into him but couldn't get him to drop. You can just see like the boss's health bar slowly dropping on each hit with Lesnar.
Frecklestein
Banned
I like it as long as the second half is like dusk-dark. I thought Sting's entrance as well as Taker/Wyatt suffered from the light
Skid 4 Dead
Member
To me Reigns just comes off as an asshole, both on the mic and in the ring. Outside of the ring too, from what I've seen/heard. And he doesn't have the talent to outright be an asshole, if you ask me. I'm surprised to hear as much support from him as he has gotten. He's only had two good matches and he was carried in both scenario, if you ask me.
One good thing about MetsFan4Ever not coming though (again) is that more and more people can finally put this fool out to pasture and ignore him.
BFIB
Member
Him shoving the fan out of the way last night when he first came out was priceless. I'm sure Vince screamed to cut the camera shot which immediately happened afterward.
funkystudent
Member
MetsFan4Ever is the CBOAT of wrestling.
Making obvious predictions anyone can see coming. Wrong about eveyrthing else.
Making obvious predictions anyone can see coming. Wrong about eveyrthing else.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Seth flew from SF to New York and will fly back to SF. Damn.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Oh god I laughed so much when that happened
BFIB
Member
That means at some point the champ flew over my house today.
I dug the Triple H entrance. I got the feeling he didn't bother telling Sting about the movie cross promotion as he had a real what the fuck expression going on. Match was entertaining but fuck Triple H burying the guy that was supposed to be unstoppable and that weird handshake thing at the end.
I can't remember where that started. I want to say WM15 when Austin/Rock kicked out of each others finishers which I believe had not been done before. I could be wrong though but I agree. Finishers need to be protected.
However, say finishers were well protected, I still think last night should have played out the exact same way. To my earlier point I believe Roman kicking out was merely to aggravate Brock more than anything and had finishers be as protected as you describe that would have been a huge deal for Roman. It already was but it would have been on a whole other level.
To your point, another thing that bothers me is some superstars are absolutely terrible at selling a pinfall. The amount of times I see a superstar looking up at the ref waiting on the 3 count to happen so they can leave really irritates the hell out of me.
To be fair, that fan was a total dick for getting in his way like that. If you look again the security behind Roman continued to yell at the guy and shove him back. The fan didn't seem very bothered with it though.
I do agree with your Lesnar comment, but if it was only Lesnar the one kicking out of finishers that wouldn't be a problem, but everyone, or several people do it.
If Lesnar is that guy that takes 3 finishers to be beaten, fine, but currently anyone pretty much can/has/will kick out of any finisher just because the booking is shit.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
The trips entrance was just funny. A so bad it's good kinda thing. And I'm so glad Triple H won. Other than Seth coming out at the end Trips getting the win was the biggest YES! moment of the night for me. Didn't expect it and I haven't been a fan of Sting for a long time now so seeing Sting lose made me very happy. The handshake was weird though.
That's why I said that Lesnar should have only done two F5s, the one at the beginning which wouldn't beat Reigns since he is a "tough guy", and the second one at the end where he wasn't pinned due to Lesnar selling. That would have improved the match a lot for me.
As far as pins go, Cena was awful last night in that respect, dude was kicking out right at 2, he wasn't waiting for that 2 and 3/4 or 9/10s, no, it was a two count and he was up already, so those pinfalls felt really week, and that's not Rusev fault at all.
Austin mentions in his podcast quite often the same thing, that the many guys just keep looking at the referee for when to kick out. Ziggler has this problem, but unlike Cena he does kicks out at 2 and 9/10s, but still there's many guys specially in the past that are selling with their eyes shut and do more believable kick outs.
Sting was bad on his kick outs too, but I think that's due to his age, not his timing or looking at the referee, man the guy looked (is) too old already.
You can not be that much of a mark.
The prep that goes into that kind of thing you can not avoid knowing about. The stage build, practice, outfit. Trips would be telling everyone.
It leaked to the press a day or two before Mania.
Sting was selling.
MaulerX
Member
Is there anyone out there that does live play-by-play of these events that you can tune into? Kinda like watching any sports game, if I don't like the TV commentary I lower the volume and listen to the radio broadcast instead.
BigMastadon
Member
I used to do this with Cubs games when I was half paying attention. Usually the radio broadcast is a few seconds ahead of the game so this doesn't really work if I am truly watching it -.-
Awesome thanks
it was really strange seeing it in full light yesterday, dark so much better
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Will this raw be good
San Jose (where Raw is and 10 minutes away from where Mania is) has an airport too.
shoplifter
Member
Why don't they start having guys win matches with stuff that *aren't* their finishers? True 'finishers' only get brought out when shit gets real.
Kobashi only used the Burning Hammer like 7 or 8 times, he could hit other moves to win (Orange Crush/Moonsault/etc) but he always had it in his back pocket if he needed it.
Really, WWE (and ECW/WCW/ETC) did this to themselves by selling the signature moves as the be all end all of a match. They ended up booking themselves into a corner because they didn't have anywhere else to go other than 'welp, lets have you kick out of three+ finishers' and now they're pretty much death on normal TV but in a PPV main they mean nothing. Weekly live TV and monthly PPVs didn't help either because guys got more exposed.
They IMO should take the opportunity to let guys do more with finishes that don't rely on a guy's finisher to be used every single match. It's pretty clear that most of the 'top' guys on the roster could pull this off easily, and it would help give back the mystique that the finisher once had. This would also have the added bonus of matches actually ending on normalish stuff that Cole has to oversell right now, making it sound ridiculous.
BigMastadon
Member
Is the sky blue?
Most Raw's after WrestleMania are awesome.. especially with the crowd element.
He's already at that point to be honest... it's boring as all hell.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I think its safe to say that Sting in the WWE was 15 years too late, and I probably don't need to see that again. It really broke my heart.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
My "what if" senario for a long time now has been what the WWF would've been like in the mid to late 80s and beyond if Vince had a physical freak like Brock back then. Would he be treated like Hogan or if heel like an unstoppable beast or would he end up another monster for the Hulkster to slay?
I tuned out the commentary for most of the show. They got two assholes and another guy who half the time is quiet now days.
Pretty much. That's what I've been saying for the last several years with the Sting stuff. It's just sad at this point.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Or just go old school Sting where he already had a close-cropped do.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
I'm in the Bay Area too. I'm using SF in general for the rest of the people here.
BobTheFork
Member
I don't think it was sad. It was an ok match. Of course he can't go full time but Sting was the biggest American wrestling star to never appear in their company. He also never talked shit about WWE and refused to be apart of the general stupidity Russo and Ferrerrerrha were lying down. He was a damned hard worker, put people over and didn't try to gut the business out of bitterness. With WWE the last company standing they are holding the keys to The Wrestling HoF in general. They want him in the HoF like he should be; So they get him out for a big Wrestlemania moment and now he can go into the HoF and be honored like he should be.
Any more than this could be sad but last night wasn't IMO.
ShadowsFell
Member
He honestly looked good. Horrible ending, and the cheesy run-ins, while fun, would have been better substituted in my opinion for another 10+ minutes of a one-on-one wrestling match.
This. This. So much this. DDTs used to end matches. Using Bryan as an example; the Knee (now renamed the Crusher, because he should totally name it the Crusher) would be used in PPV events; but the flying headbutt or even the flurry of kicks ending with the head kick would be how he beats any non Main Eventer.
ShadowsFell
Member
I agree. WWE wants to have each wrestler maintain their formula of moves that with repetition becomes widely identified by the audience. This tends to lead to formulaic matches, and a homogenization of their in-ring product to an extent, in my opinion.
I believe there should be a wide array of moves that can finish matches.
The Albatross
Member
To be fair, this is a carryover from the territories days, when most people only got to see a wrestler once in a while, not on TV, and so they had to have a repeatable formula of moves that worked to build up to the end of the match. It also made working with the talent better... a guy from one territory could wrestle for a month in another territory and they'd quickly have the finishing move set down. It's part of what made Bret Hart such a draw, but was also true of a lot of other guys. Hart was one of the few faces who built to a finisher with successive moves, where as most faces (especially in the 80's WWE) "hulked up" to a finisher and pulled it out of their trunks after being held down by the heel for a while.
That1BlackGuy
Member
Few can work a crowd like The Rock man, that dude just has it down to a science.
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