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[llien]

Voxel GI is expensive as hell too that's why you didn't see it used in any high budget console games this generation.

Console games of this generation run on puny 7870 and lower.
And I still do not believe my eyes when playing GoW. (the best game of this gen for me, by the way)
Whatever tricks they've used to achive that, it works damn well.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Console games of this generation run on puny 7870 and lower.
And I still do not believe my eyes when playing GoW. (the best game of this gen for me, by the way)
Whatever tricks they've used to achive that, it works damn well.

Yeah it looks good and regards to lighting though I've seen better.

 

[azz0r]

Does either console have a chip for RT?

 

[GymWolf]

Full RTX isn't free ofcourse butsome devs have reported some effects like ray traced ambient occlusion and using it to enhance existing shadow techniques can actually be cheaper or a small cost for much better results.

Even if those devs were mistaken or speaking of a specific case. I think it's silly to think that Ray tracing is gonna stopped being used in the future, if anything it's gonna be used more but just less advertised since it will just be "well yeah ofcourse we used raytracing for the mirror in that level". I think you'l just see it used more precisely.

you could maybe used a raytrace shadow for some specific objects that keep looking obviously bad with traditional methods or you could only apply RT Reflections to you're giant robot boss. Think of it like how subsureface scattering for translucent objects is more expensive than shading something like concrete. People didn't stop doing subsurface scattering cause it was expensive. They use it in extremely small amounts but doing so vastly improves the look of characters. You can get Huge benefits from RT without using it for everything.

i didn't say that, i say that console are gonna forget rtx for a couple of years (untile refresh or next gen), pc is gonna massively use rtx and the technology is here to stay.
Sorry if i wasn't clear.

Yeah maybe they are gonna use a minimum amount of rtx with some clever integration but not more than that, especially if they care about 4k\60fps.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

None of the games you mentioned have announced support for ray-tracing except MM. And even that was a cutscene or photomode shot. R&C didn't show any RT. Neither did HFW or DS.

We'll get more ray-tracing from 3rd parties than first parties simply because there are more 3rd party companies out there.

Vfx veteran, RTX newbie.

 

[Shmunter]

Right on the money . In film, games and animation, if I can create a trick to get my audience to truly believe that I'm using real-time reflections, etc, you bet your ass it will be used over the more costly (financial, technical or otherwise) alternative. It's about the "illusion of life" but time is money among other things. Shortcuts, illusions, etc., are key. When it comes to the creative and visual arts or storytelling, if it looks "cool" then you're half done.

The console game development space....it is also filled with fascinating and awe inspiring stories of how limitations really pushed those devs to truly think outside the box. Reading the story of how the employee at Rare figured out ways to really push the SNES to deliver the beautiful rendered graphics.

noticed the same in spiderman image when DOF wasnt present equally in the reflection as in the rest of the image

a quick idea is to use SSR for certain details and mix with RT I think storing the position and area of the details not reflected in RT in a cheap 1-bit mask texture, we keep the previous frame like in SSR(probably they will do it anyway for other things) and use the mask to specify things to be reflected from previous frame in SSR shader on top of the RT reflection, in theory should resolve the problem with particles while keeping the nice RT reflections but particles will dissapear when there is no data from previous frame just like SSR, but I dont know how expensive can be compared to just use a stronger RT I guess its a cheap approach but maybe someone knows more of the impact of RT and SSR I dont have experience in performance in both techniques

another is trigger RT only in certain angles and use SSR only in angles it favor or even interchange what objects each use based on statistics but may cause framerate inconsistency I think if RT is too expensive but dont know how expensive that may be compared to simply more RT

You guys are so cool you crap ice cubes and piss snowflakes, no lies.

Another thing with RT you also need to render the entire environment, even what's behind you and off screen so it can be reflected. Very wasteful, unless there is a saving technique I'm not familiar with.

Shadows & GI RT does not require this and likely why it's classed as a cheaper part of the RT set as per Cerney presentation.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Significantly more CU's buddy. 1.8 TF gpu advantage

The formula is given by MS and amd. We don't need to speculate.
4x cu x clock MHZ
Xsx 380 gigarays
Ps5 321 gigarays

15% buddy. Its OK .u wanted 100% like u were saying before but it didn't happen .maybe ps6 and next gen xbox u get ur wish ? lets hope so

 

[KRYPT83]

4xs the capability of 2080ti ray tracing is what I'm hearing from dev's for series X

 

[Agnostic2020]

4xs the capability of 2080ti ray tracing is what I'm hearing from dev's for series X

Lol u can't be serious. U r listening to tim dog and dealer most probably

 

[Pedro Motta]

None of the games you mentioned have announced support for ray-tracing except MM. And even that was a cutscene or photomode shot. R&C didn't show any RT. Neither did HFW or DS.

We'll get more ray-tracing from 3rd parties than first parties simply because there are more 3rd party companies out there.

You numb nuts.

 

[Three]

None of the games you mentioned have announced support for ray-tracing except MM. And even that was a cutscene or photomode shot. R&C didn't show any RT. Neither did HFW or DS.

We'll get more ray-tracing from 3rd parties than first parties simply because there are more 3rd party companies out there.

You couldn't be more out of the loop and wrong if you tried.

GT7 had ray tracing, as did R&C. R&C even had it confirmed from the dev.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

None of the games you mentioned have announced support for ray-tracing except MM. And even that was a cutscene or photomode shot. R&C didn't show any RT. Neither did HFW or DS.

We'll get more ray-tracing from 3rd parties than first parties simply because there are more 3rd party companies out there.

MM has RT confirmed by the devs, the Demon`s Souls Remake has a fidelity mode with rt effects confirmed, R&C has RT confirmed which could already be seen and verified in game....
Your typcial troll-bullshit claiming the sky is green during a clear summer day.
Oh by the way weren`t you also claiming the MS Flight Simulator would have more detailed cities on street level than Spiderman......how did that turn out for you?

 

[FireFly]

Voxel GI is expensive as hell too that's why you didn't see it used in any high budget console games this generation.

It was actually used on the Switch port of Crysis. I think a low precision GI implementation for the sun is probably a lot cheaper than what Lumen is doing.

"Essentially, global illumination is typically precalculated or 'baked' on most games. Instead, SVOGI delivers a real-time global illumination system that offers both ambient occlusion and indirect light bounce, delivering a standard of realism that easily eclipses the last-gen ports and indeed the lighting found in the PC original. It's surprising to see this on Switch but as I understand it, SVOGI is highly scalable. According to the team responsible for its conversion, this implementation of the systems runs at a very low resolution on Switch but the primary optimisation work centered around optimising data formats to reduce size, limiting the distance rays can be traced into the octree and using smaller kernels. Naturally, this reduces precision which can lead to more visible light leakage and light rippling in some cases but it still works surprisingly well. Presumably, the PC and other console releases will use higher precision. "

Crysis Remastered on Switch: yes, a handheld really can run Crysis

Can it run Crysis? It's been 13 years since Crytek's epoch-making release hit the market - and in some respects it's st…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Mister Wolf]

It was actually used on the Switch port of Crysis. I think a low precision GI implementation for the sun is probably a lot cheaper than what Lumen is doing.

"Essentially, global illumination is typically precalculated or 'baked' on most games. Instead, SVOGI delivers a real-time global illumination system that offers both ambient occlusion and indirect light bounce, delivering a standard of realism that easily eclipses the last-gen ports and indeed the lighting found in the PC original. It's surprising to see this on Switch but as I understand it, SVOGI is highly scalable. According to the team responsible for its conversion, this implementation of the systems runs at a very low resolution on Switch but the primary optimisation work centered around optimising data formats to reduce size, limiting the distance rays can be traced into the octree and using smaller kernels. Naturally, this reduces precision which can lead to more visible light leakage and light rippling in some cases but it still works surprisingly well. Presumably, the PC and other console releases will use higher precision. "

Crysis Remastered on Switch: yes, a handheld really can run Crysis

Can it run Crysis? It's been 13 years since Crytek's epoch-making release hit the market - and in some respects it's st…

www.eurogamer.net

Crytek never gave up on Voxel GI and made it more scalable/performant. The lighting looks amazing in Hunt Showdown on PC:


This is what Tim Sweeney had to say about Voxel GI:

Epic Games' Tim Sweeney Explains Lack Of 'SVOGI' In Unreal Engine 4

Epic Games impressed gamers back in 2012 when it showcased its latest game engine, Unreal Engine 4, with its Global Illumination support. The Elemental Tech Demo was a beauty to behold, however its latest version – which ran on Sony’s PS4 – did not feature any of it. Naturally, a lot of PC...

www.dsogaming.com

They did add Nvidia's Voxel GI to Unreal in 2016 though

 

[Shmunter]

MM has RT confirmed by the devs, the Demon`s Souls Remake has a fidelity mode with rt effects confirmed, R&C has RT confirmed which could already be seen and verified in game....
Your typcial troll-bullshit claiming the sky is green during a clear summer day.
Oh by the way weren`t you also claiming the MS Flight Simulator would have more detailed cities on street level than Spiderman......how did that turn out for you?

I don't think VFX mind works like regular people, I don't mean to disparage and I hope it's ok to raise. If not, I'll take it down.

But if I'm right, and if we can understand that, maybe we can move past some of the oddity.

 

[Zato]

Fake RT.

Lol, ok mate.

 

[Zato]

None of the games you mentioned have announced support for ray-tracing except MM. And even that was a cutscene or photomode shot. R&C didn't show any RT. Neither did HFW or DS.

We'll get more ray-tracing from 3rd parties than first parties simply because there are more 3rd party companies out there.

Mate you are a bare faced liar and an anti Sony troll.

Have seen you ply your trade other places.

Completely disingenuous wanker.

 

[Azurro]

None of the games you mentioned have announced support for ray-tracing except MM. And even that was a cutscene or photomode shot. R&C didn't show any RT. Neither did HFW or DS..

Lol, how are you a senior software developer in visual effects? You can't even spot the stuff you supposedly work on.

 

[Zato]

MM has RT confirmed by the devs, the Demon`s Souls Remake has a fidelity mode with rt effects confirmed, R&C has RT confirmed which could already be seen and verified in game....
Your typcial troll-bullshit claiming the sky is green during a clear summer day.
Oh by the way weren`t you also claiming the MS Flight Simulator would have more detailed cities on street level than Spiderman......how did that turn out for you?

Don't listen to him mate, total troll and a bullshit artist.

If he was still allowed on Reee he would have been a mod, like that other liar.

He might be verified but his biggest single qualification is that he hates Sony, then consoles and loves the PC.

 

[Zato]

Lol, how are you a senior software developer in visual effects? You can't even spot the stuff you supposedly work on.

That verified tag lets him post lies and many will assume its fact. Needs revoked, who gives a fuck where he works / worked / does if he can't be honest or accurate.

 

[Azurro]

That verified tag lets him post lies and many will assume its fact. Needs revoked, who gives a fuck where he works / worked / does if he can't be honest or accurate.

Seriously, at this point I'd be surprised if he knew what an XML file was.

 

[Esppiral]

Funny how MS fanboys kept talking shit about HW RT not being in PS5 (supposedly) and how this put Series X in advantage.

Now it's not a big deal if RT gets used at all!

Funny how it was the same with the resolution advantage on PS4 and now it doesn't matter for Ps5 because reasons...

 

[pawel86ck]

noticed the same in spiderman image when DOF wasnt present equally in the reflection as in the rest of the image

DOF shouldn't affect water reflections as long water is in the focus area. You can place a small mirror very close to your open eye (or a camera). Despite the fact that the mirror is very close to your eye, you can still see sharp reflections of the far away objects.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

None of the games you mentioned have announced support for ray-tracing except MM. And even that was a cutscene or photomode shot. R&C didn't show any RT. Neither did HFW or DS.

We'll get more ray-tracing from 3rd parties than first parties simply because there are more 3rd party companies out there.

Are you not tired of digging so many holes lol?

 

[SportsFan581]

This was probably an AMD talking point more than anything else. nVidia's chosen path for RT and AI is powerful, but comes at the direct expense of traditional GPU performance. It causes team green to have very large dies with a lot of idle silicon in situations where no RTX or AI are in use, these are transistors that could have been used for traditional structures for the same price. AMD's approach offers an acceleration boost with only a slight increase in die size.

 

[psorcerer]

Well, that's Nvidia. Compared to AMD, they're experts in that

I'm not sure, are you implying that NV fits-all solution is better than what Dice, Crytek, Naughty Dogs, etc. will produce for their specific games?

 

[Pedro Motta]

That verified tag lets him post lies and many will assume its fact. Needs revoked, who gives a fuck where he works / worked / does if he can't be honest or accurate.

I own a VFX company and have no problem in being verified if it means putting an end to his bullshit.

 

[Insane Metal]

Cmon now Alex

And he somehow didn't like it when I said he was wrong again as he was everytime.

One more to the list.

 

[Shmunter]

I own a VFX company and have no problem in being verified if it means putting an end to his bullshit.

Either way, the more verified pros, the better. Hit up a mod.

 

[jimbojim]

I'm not sure, are you implying that NV fits-all solution is better than what Dice, Crytek, Naughty Dogs, etc. will produce for their specific games?

But did we saw their solutions in their engines which are better than NV solution?

 

[psorcerer]

But did we saw their solutions in their engines which are better than NV solution?

Dunno what you're hinting at?
I think Quake2 RT looks worse than Battlefield with RT. Even worse than Metro Exodus (which is hard to achieve).
I'm also not sure why people mix up a lot of terms like RTX, DXR, Ray Tracing, raytracing, etc.
But maybe it's because NV tries hard to muddy the waters here.
Hint: the tech that NV (or AMD) is responsible for should have been called "software defined rendering pipeline" but somehow ended up called all the various terms with "RT" in.

 

[Jerm411]

Microsoft at every fucking chance: HARDWARE BASED DIRECTX RAY TRACING~!!!

Developers:

 

[mckmas8808]

i didn't say that, i say that console are gonna forget rtx for a couple of years (untile refresh or next gen), pc is gonna massively use rtx and the technology is here to stay.
Sorry if i wasn't clear.

Yeah maybe they are gonna use a minimum amount of rtx with some clever integration but not more than that, especially if they care about 4k\60fps.

Hopefully these silly gaming companies don't care too much about 4K/60. IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

 

[Black_Stride]

So RTX for reflections including Clanks.

So I hope people understand everyone can make mistakes.
Even the developers' social media managers.

R&C is highly highly highly unlikely to be using RTX anything, maybe they have somehow ported OptiX but again I doubt it.

Before you @ me Im being deliberately obtuse with the usage of the term RTX....I know the tweet is supposed to say Raytracing.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Hopefully these silly gaming companies don't care too much about 4K/60. IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

Agreed, especially given the quality of the likely improved reconstruction techniques.

Look at the Unreal 5 tech demo and tell me the resolution is to low. Most people would have guessed it was 4K.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Do people really care about raytraced reflections? For raytracing to have real visual benefits you need full global illumination, and I highly doubt we'll see that on consoles consistently. Better off with screenspace reflections.

Yes. As much as I think RDR2 is a gorgeous game, and it's SSR is passable... it breaks some immersion seeing the trees and reflections disappear in large lakes at the same rate they are out of rendering view on screen. It's glaring actually.

Not better off. SSR works decently in smaller applications, but large bodies of water and windows as described above, stands out like a sore thumb.

 

[MasterCornholio]

R&C is highly highly highly unlikely to be using RTX anything

What about Clank?



I also swear I heard the developer say that in one of their videos.

 

[Agnostic2020]

What about Clank?



I also swear I heard the developer say that in one of their videos.

Ratchet clank has raytracing reflection as well on the reflective floors as confirmed by insomniac

 

[JonnyMP3]

What about Clank?



I also swear I heard the developer say that in one of their videos.

The ears and chin looks *chef's kiss*

 

[xPikYx]

For me it is either too early for Raytracing and for 4k native, delay them to PS6

 

[MasterCornholio]

Ratchet clank has raytracing reflection as well on the reflective floors as confirmed by insomniac

Not what this person is saying. Basically he's making the claim that they made a mistake on Twitter and that there's no RTX at all in the game.

So I hope people understand everyone can make mistakes.
Even the developers' social media managers.

R&C is highly highly highly unlikely to be using RTX anything, maybe they have somehow ported OptiX but again I doubt it.

I'm wondering if other experts in this site can confirm this.

But to me they confirmed it over social media with the reflections and I swore I heard them say that Clanks reflections were ray traced.

 

[mckmas8808]

So I hope people understand everyone can make mistakes.
Even the developers' social media managers.

R&C is highly highly highly unlikely to be using RTX anything, maybe they have somehow ported OptiX but again I doubt it.

Before you @ me Im being deliberately obtuse with the usage of the term RTX....I know the tweet is supposed to say Raytracing.

Why do people not want RTX to be in games so bad?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm pretty sure he's not saying it has no raytracing. He's just being sly because of the wording.

RTX isn't an acronym for raytracing. It's what Nvidia calls their raytracing platform.

AMD's raytracing won't be called RTX.

 

[Black_Stride]

Not what this person is saying. Basically he's making the claim that they made a mistake on Twitter and that there's no RTX at all in the game.



I'm wondering if other experts in this site can confirm this.

But to me they confirmed it over social media with the reflections and I swore I heard them say that Clanks reflections were ray traced.

What about Clank?



I also swear I heard the developer say that in one of their videos.

Why do people not want RTX to be in games so bad?

If you read my whole post you would have understood what i was saying.

I literally put this in my post:

Before you @ me Im being deliberately obtuse with the usage of the term RTX....I know the tweet is supposed to say Raytracing.

"RTX" is Nvidias technology that allows a variety of features one being realtime Raytracing.
The chances that Insomniac decided to port that technology to work on an AMD chip is very very very low.

The media manager almost certainly meant to say raytracing but used the term RTX which as mentioned is Nvidias solution.

Read the whole post mates.

 

[MasterCornholio]

If you read my whole post you would have understood what i was saying.

I literally put this in my post:


"RTX" is Nvidias technology that allows a variety of features one being realtime Raytracing.
The chances that Insomniac decided to port that technology to work on an AMD chip is very very very low.

The media manager almost certainly meant to say raytracing but used the term RTX which as mentioned is Nvidias solution.

Read the whole post mates.

Ok let's change the subject.

Does Ratchet and Clank use ray tracing?

No RTX bullshit just ray tracing in general.

Also many people use RTX as acronym. I've seen that many times over Twitter and Gaf so it normal that some people don't know about what it really means.

 

[Kenpachii]

Lol, ok mate.

Yes ok mate. No gpu performance to RT those games at those resolutions. They will probably RT one simplistic thing and slam the label on it. It's sony after all. They slam 4k sticker on everything while the box barely sits at 1440p.

2080ti can't even RT for shit at 1080p, u think 4k is going to be easy to RT on RDNA2 that probably doesn't even push 2080ti performance on RT solution? yea don't think so. Even cerny in his interview basically wasn't optimistic about it.

They will do the same thing as those raytrace reshades do on PC and call it a day. Aka fake RT. How do i know? u can't RT at 4k simple as that with the hardware they got.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I don't think VFX mind works like regular people, I don't mean to disparage and I hope it's ok to raise. If not, I'll take it down.

But if I'm right, and if we can understand that, maybe we can move past some of the oddity.

Pretty sure it's a troll account at this point.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Not what this person is saying. Basically he's making the claim that they made a mistake on Twitter and that there's no RTX at all in the game.



I'm wondering if other experts in this site can confirm this.

But to me they confirmed it over social media with the reflections and I swore I heard them say that Clanks reflections were ray traced.

Why r u even arguing with a troll ? Let it go man. Let him troll on his own. It has been confirmed that it has raytracing . Go watch the reveal trailer where the dev talks about raytracing .

 

[Agnostic2020]

If you read my whole post you would have understood what i was saying.

I literally put this in my post:


"RTX" is Nvidias technology that allows a variety of features one being realtime Raytracing.
The chances that Insomniac decided to port that technology to work on an AMD chip is very very very low.

The media manager almost certainly meant to say raytracing but used the term RTX which as mentioned is Nvidias solution.

Read the whole post mates.

People use rtx as acronym for raytracing. Lol stop being obtuse

 

[mckmas8808]

If you read my whole post you would have understood what i was saying.

I literally put this in my post:


"RTX" is Nvidias technology that allows a variety of features one being realtime Raytracing.
The chances that Insomniac decided to port that technology to work on an AMD chip is very very very low.

The media manager almost certainly meant to say raytracing but used the term RTX which as mentioned is Nvidias solution.

Read the whole post mates.

Oh okay I see what you're saying. Nobody in gamer comment land uses RTX as the "Nvidia" solution. We ALL mean just "raytracing". We use those 3 letters for short.