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[Veelk]

You mean other than mm trying to mind wipe kon?

I'm pretty sure that was a private affair and not something they made public.

 

[Parallax]

I'm pretty sure that was a private affair and not something they made public.

What I'm saying is that she's done actions to affect the team dynamic, and he withheld said information. If dick were to find out, dollars to donuts nothing would happen to her.

 

[Veelk]

What I'm saying is that she's done actions to affect the team dynamic, and he withheld said information. If dick were to find out, dollars to donuts nothing would happen to her.

That's because she clearly reformed from her experience with Aqualad. If Arsenal chilled off, then Dick would welcome him back with open arms as well.

 

[Parallax]

That's because she clearly reformed from her experience with Aqualad. If Arsenal chilled off, then Dick would welcome him back with open arms as well.

He never gave him the chance to. Arsenal was off the team the moment they touched down

 

[Veelk]

He never gave him the chance to. Arsenal was off the team the moment they touched down

That was where I think Dick made the mistake. He should have talked to Arsenal first, but he was understandably upset by the fact that he nearly lost his entire team. Then he finds out that Arsenal nearly killed them all and 'guarenteed their capture' (how bumblebee phrased it) because of his own agenda. I can't say I'm shocked that he went off like that, even if it was the wrong move.

That said, you know how Arsenal is. He wasn't going to just change his ways after one pep talk. One way or another, he needed to be off the team. Dick was just too emotionally shaken to do it in a more peaceful way.

Edit: And to be clear, he was off the team the moment Bumblebee let his reckless act slip an, not when they arrived.

 

[Winterfang]

That's not fair. Arsenal clone was constantly follow by sick and wally, they gave him chanced and tried to help him when he went to the wrong path. The real Roy was imprisoned for years and not even his mentor tried to rescue him, I would understand why he would be a little nut about not getting trapped again.

He also tried to make contact with the team several times.

 

[abundant]

He never gave him the chance to. Arsenal was off the team the moment they touched down

He had no time to give him his second chance. His first infraction occurred in April and his second one happened in May. If MM starts to mindwipe again, then Dick would more than likely kick her off the team too.

 

[Veelk]

That's not fair. Arsenal clone was constantly follow by sick and wally, they gave him chanced and tried to help him when he went to the wrong path. The real Roy was imprisoned for years and not even his mentor tried to rescue him, I would understand why he would be a little nut about not getting trapped again.

He also tried to make contact with the team several times.

I don't think anyone here is saying they don't understand why Arsenal is the way that he is. But that doesn't change the fact that he is that way, and that is a danger to the team, so he has to be out.

 

[Parallax]

That was where I think Dick made the mistake. He should have talked to Arsenal first, but he was understandably upset by the fact that he nearly lost his entire team. Then he finds out that Arsenal nearly killed them all and 'guarenteed their capture' (how bumblebee phrased it) because of his own agenda. I can't say I'm shocked that he went off like that, even if it was the wrong move.

That said, you know how Arsenal is. He wasn't going to just change his ways after one pep talk. One way or another, he needed to be off the team. Dick was just too emotionally shaken to do it in a more peaceful way.

Edit: And to be clear, he was off the team the moment Bumblebee let his reckless act slip an, not when they arrived.

Thats the thing. Why would we think that mgann is gonna change? Her moment of feeling bad after finding out the truth? Her whole everything on earth is based on a lie. The only person we know thats she's truly honest with is the same person she tried to mind wipe. There's also that white martian blood pumping through her veins

 

[Ducarmel]

He had no time to give him his second chance. His first infraction occurred in April and his second one happened in May. If MM starts to mindwipe again, then Dick would more than likely kick her off the team too.

So her previous victim(s) (that Krolotean, and Super Boy acted like she has done this before to other enemies) that I am pretty sure she wont go fix like she did with Aqualad are not enough to get her kicked off the team. This is an action that would send people in the real world to jail, hell war crime in the eyes of the Krolotean.

Psychologically torturing and virtually killing the minds of sentient beings cool as long as you feel sorry you did it to a friend and promise not do it again.

 

[Veelk]

Thats the thing. Why would we think that mgann is gonna change? Her moment of feeling bad after finding out the truth? Her whole everything on earth is based on a lie. The only person we know thats she's truly honest with is the same person she tried to mind wipe. There's also that white martian blood pumping through her veins

I think your forgetting that Dick probably doesn't know about the mindwipe at all, so he doesn't really have a reason to evaluate whether she deserves to be trusted or not after the fact. As for the white martian thing, she came out of that lie by her own will, so it's hard to argue that she didn't truly repent for that one, and I don't think they realized the danger m'gan put them in by hiding her identity anyway. As far as they know, it was just a secret she kept out of insecurity and the moment it became a danger (queen bee blackmailing her), she confessed. In any case, this was all years ago by their time. Your really reaching if you think dick would hold her white martian thing against her now of all times.

In any case, it's clear to us as viewers that she is genuinely repentant and dick sees that she's seriously troubled by even the idea of her endangering the team. He has no reason to question her dedication whatsoever.

So her previous victim(s) (that Krolotean, and Super Boy acted like she has done this before to other enemies) that I am pretty sure she wont go fix like she did with Aqualad are not enough to get her kicked off the team. This is an action that would send people in the real world to jail, hell war crime in the eyes of the Krolotean.

Psychologically torturing and virtually killing the minds of sentient beings cool as long as you feel sorry you did it to a friend and promise not do it again.

As much as this is a bad action, it doesn't undermine her loyalty to the team, which is the problem we are currently debating about. Being ruthless to her enemies doesn't make her disloyal to the team.

 

[Parallax]

I think your forgetting that Dick probably doesn't know about the mindwipe at all, so he doesn't really have a reason to evaluate whether she deserves to be trusted or not. As for the white martian thing, she came out of that lie by her own will, so it's hard to argue that she didn't truly repent for that one, which was years ago anyway.

In any case, it's clear to us as viewers that she is genuinely repentant and dick sees that she's seriously troubled by even the idea of her endangering the team. He has no reason to question her dedication whatsoever.



As much as this is a bad action, it doesn't undermine her loyalty to the team, which is the problem we are currently debating abut. She can be ruthless while still being loyal.

Exactly about the mind wiping. Dick doesn't know, so theres no reason for her to stop. I'm sure if she didn't have that feedback from kaldur, she wouldnt give a damn. I'm sure she wouldnt have confessed to it had she not been kidnapped

As for the white martian thing, it's not that she was secretive about it, but that white Martians were bloodthirsty monsters that usually destroy everything in their path. She could be doing what comes natural to her

 

[Ducarmel]

As much as this is a bad action, it doesn't undermine her loyalty to the team, which is the problem we are currently debating about. Being ruthless to her enemies doesn't make her disloyal to the team.

But she altered Super Boys mind when they had disagreements that is why they broke up, and he suspects that she might have done something to Lagoon Boy. Lagoon Boy have done some boneheaded stuff when it comes to protecting her, losing his cool and not focusing.

If she is willing to do casual stuff like that how do we know if she was not manipulating Nightwing into sweeping the whole thing under the rug with the talk they had.

I'm not saying that is whats happening now, its clear the writers just want to wrap up MM crap and move on, but its hard to believe Nightwing/Justice League would be cool with any of this assuming they are aware of what MM did.

 

[Veelk]

Exactly about the mind wiping. Dick doesn't know, so theres no reason for her to stop.

Except for the fact that she realizes that it's immoral on her own....

I'm sure if she didn't have that feedback from kaldur, she wouldnt give a damn.

Probably not. What of it? Sometimes people need extreme experiences to make them realize the truth of things. The important thing is that she knows better now.

I'm sure she wouldnt have confessed to it had she not been kidnapped

WTF are you talking about? Her capture had nothing to do with the fact that she was kidnapped. They were entirely separate incidence and she confessed that she felt guilty about having been tricked by green beetle because dick was confessing his own feelings of guilt. These incidents have nothing to do with each other.

As for the white martian thing, it's not that she was secretive about it, but that white Martians were bloodthirsty monsters that usually destroy everything in their path. She could be doing what comes natural to her

I don't know how it is in the comics, but it's not shown in the show, and even if it is true, it's clear that MM is them moderating her 'nature', especially now, and there is no reason besides specism to be suspectful of her.




tldr: You're painting MM to be way worse than she actually is, which even if she was, it wouldn't matter because dick isn't privy to everything that ever happens to MM, so there is no real reason for him to ever be against her, as opposed to arsenal, that has directly shown to be a danger to the entire team.

But she altered Super Boys mind when they had disagreements that is why they broke up, and he suspects that she might have done something to Lagoon Boy. Lagoon Boy have done some boneheaded stuff when it comes to protecting her, losing his cool and not focusing.

Can you remind me where dick learns about any of this?

If she is willing to do casual stuff like that how do we know if she was not manipulating Nightwing into sweeping the whole thing under the rug with the talk they had.

uh...because we, as viewers, have indications of when she is using her powers and we are privy to seeing her private moments, where she expresses clear guilt for even doing that to super boy. Technically, she can be a complete villainness off screen, but you have no evidence for this. You might as well suggest that Nightwing is secretly the 8th member of the Light.

I'm not saying that is whats happening now, its clear the writers just want to wrap up MM crap and move on, but its hard to believe Nightwing/Justice League would be cool with any of this assuming they are aware of what MM did.

I agree. That's why I doubt they're aware of it, but I also doubt that MM has any hostile intentions toward the Team at all. The thing with Superboy was obviously an extreme emotional moment, and even then, she wasn't trying to harm him, just make both of them happier by removing the bad parts of their relationship. It wasn't a good action, but it was well intentioned, while Arsenal was clearly entirely motivated by his own selfishness.

 

[Ducarmel]

I agree. That's why I doubt they're aware of it, but I also doubt that MM has any hostile intentions toward the Team at all. The thing with Superboy was obviously an extreme emotional moment, and even then, she wasn't trying to harm him, just make both of them happier by removing the bad parts of their relationship. It wasn't a good action, but it was well intentioned, while Arsenal was clearly entirely motivated by his own selfishness.

I assumed that she admitted everything prior to the talk with Nightwing she did mention Aqualad. I just assumed the show writers just want to wrap things up and have us forget about it and everything is all good with MM.

If she is still hiding the truth then I guess its a shame the show is ending and we wont see the conclusion to this.

 

[abundant]

tldr: You're painting MM to be way worse than she actually is, which even if she was, it wouldn't matter because dick isn't privy to everything that ever happens to MM, so there is no real reason for him to ever be against her, as opposed to arsenal, that has directly shown to be a danger to the entire team.

This is basically what it comes down to for this debate. We may know all of the bad stuff MM has done, but does Dick know? And if he doesn't, what is there to say that if he would end up knowing everything, he wouldn't kick her off the team?

What we do know, is that Arsenal purposefully put his team in danger, twice, in less than two months. Dick does know about this.

 

[Veelk]

I assumed that she admitted everything prior to the talk with Nightwing she did mention Aqualad. I just assumed the show writers just want to wrap things up and have us forget about it and everything is all good with MM.

If she is still hiding the truth then I guess its a shame the show is ending and we wont see the conclusion to this.

What would be the point of telling? The matter is resolved at this moment. Aqualad holds no grudge, and MM has learned her lesson by all indications. Honesty is nice I guess, but in this case, it isn't needed.

This is basically what it comes down to for this debate. We may know all of the bad stuff MM has done, but does Dick know? And if he doesn't, what is there to say that if he would end up knowing everything, he wouldn't kick her off the team?

What we do know, is that Arsenal purposefully put his team in danger, twice, in less than two months. Dick does know about this.

I also find it objectionable that people seem to want to dismiss MM's repentance, while they accept Arsenal who is perfectly happy putting his friends in danger to save his own ass.

 

[abundant]

I also find it objectionable that people seem to want to dismiss MM's repentance, while they accept Arsenal who is perfectly happy putting his friends in danger to save his own ass.

It's not even to save his own ass, he sabotaged the stealth mission, putting two teammates at risk of being captured, because of petty vengeance.

 

[Infinite Justice]

After all the discussion we know (right now at least) where her loyalty lies which is the team.

Lets say she didn't get do that stuff to aqualad she was still doing what she felt was in the interest of the team i.e getting info, getting revenge on someone for supposedly killing a team member. The ultimate problem (and one of Superboy's issue) was the level she was willing to go and it showed when everything went to shit when things wasn't as clear cut as she thought it was.


Arsenal right hasn't shown such loyalty hence why he's gone with the option to return later.

Is it the right decision? maybe but this thing doesn't seem to be as clear cut anymore lol

 

[Parallax]

Except for the fact that she realizes that it's immoral on her own....



Probably not. What of it? Sometimes people need extreme experiences to make them realize the truth of things. The important thing is that she knows better now.



WTF are you talking about? Her capture had nothing to do with the fact that she was kidnapped. They were entirely separate incidence and she confessed that she felt guilty about having been tricked by green beetle because dick was confessing his own feelings of guilt. These incidents have nothing to do with each other.



I don't know how it is in the comics, but it's not shown in the show, and even if it is true, it's clear that MM is them moderating her 'nature', especially now, and there is no reason besides specism to be suspectful of her.




tldr: You're painting MM to be way worse than she actually is, which even if she was, it wouldn't matter because dick isn't privy to everything that ever happens to MM, so there is no real reason for him to ever be against him, as opposed to arsenal, that has directly shown to be a danger to the entire team.


Can you remind me where dick learns about any of this?



uh...because we, as viewers, have indications of when she is using her powers and we are privy to seeing her private moments, where she expresses clear guilt for even doing that to super boy. Technically, she can be a complete villainness off screen, but you have no evidence for this. You might as well suggest that Nightwing is secretly the 8th member of the Light.



I agree. That's why I doubt they're aware of it, but I also doubt that MM has any hostile intentions toward the Team at all. The thing with Superboy was obviously an extreme emotional moment, and even then, she wasn't trying to harm him, just make both of them happier by removing the bad parts of their relationship. It wasn't a good action, but it was well intentioned, while Arsenal was clearly entirely motivated by his own selfishness.

She realized its immoral after mindwiping an ally, even though her one time boyfriend told her it was wrong. She didn't stop because she knew what she was doing was wrong, but because she finally got burned with the fire she was playing with. And even then, she's probably gonna be a bit more selective of who she mind wipes, no story entirely

You second example is weak, but I'll give an example. If someone kills people, and after being tried as guilty realizes what they did was wrong, all isn't forgiven for the murderer.

And what? Her capture was directly involved with her actions against kaldur. They are as connected as they could possibly be.

And she isn't doing a good job at moderating her nature. Mind destruction is something a white Martian would do.

I personally don't think people are paying attention to the stuff mgann has done throughout the season. If the two strike rule is in effect with arsenal then it should be in effect with mgann as well. His first action was indeed selfish, no way to deny that. But the second was nothing but fear. And instead of trying to help him knowing that, he just pushes him away.

 

[Veelk]

She realized its immoral after mindwiping an ally, even though her one time boyfriend told her it was wrong. She didn't stop because she knew what she was doing was wrong, but because she finally got burned with the fire she was playing with. And even then, she's probably gonna be a bit more selective of who she mind wipes, no story entirely

Yes....she realized how what she was doing could have bad consequences and that made her realize that it was bad. She should have listened to superboy, but she's independent enough to be making her own choices and choosing her own beliefs. That they were the wrong choice does not mean that she 'should' have listened to superboy without reasons of her own to think he's right.

You second example is weak, but I'll give an example. If someone kills people, and after being tried as guilty realizes what they did was wrong, all isn't forgiven for the murderer.

To discourage other murderers from doing the same thing and feigning repentance. Punishing a truly repentant criminal for the sole reason to punish him/her is pointless.

And what? Her capture was directly involved with her actions against kaldur. They are as connected as they could possibly be.

My mistake, I misunderstood and thought you were referring to something else. Anyway, it's unknown what she would have done, so it's an assumption at best. Either way, I can get it. She was incredibly burdened by guilt. Confessing on top of that is a difficult thing to do. Your right in that it was bad that she didn't confess sooner, but I can sympathize with it.

And she isn't doing a good job at moderating her nature. Mind destruction is something a white Martian would do.

She clearly is now.

I personally don't think people are paying attention to the stuff mgann has done throughout the season. If the two strike rule is in effect with arsenal then it should be in effect with mgann as well. His first action was indeed selfish, no way to deny that. But the second was nothing but fear. And instead of trying to help him knowing that, he just pushes him away.

It was fear because he was afraid for HIS safety, so he (unintentionally, but willingly) sacrificed his teams. If your saying emotions justify bad actions, then Megan's secret keeping is just as justified.

 

[Ducarmel]

What would be the point of telling? The matter is resolved at this moment. Aqualad holds no grudge, and MM has learned her lesson by all indications. Honesty is nice I guess, but in this case, it isn't needed.

Not just the Aqualad stuff but everything she done. The fact they are supposed to be champions of Justice I assumed she would confess everything.

The representatives of Krolotean general she mind raped comes back asking for justice, they did present him in that galactic court with the Justice League he was a prisoner and was tortured by her. According to the galaxy the Justice League are the bad guys (not their fault) I don't see why the main members have to take heat for her actions.

If the Lagoon Boy allegation is true will he hold no grudge, his affection for MM and hate for Super Boy caused him to get captured and his zeal/hotheadedness to save MM got him injured badly by Deathstroke.

Edit: Also not excusing Arsenals action he deserves to be kicked off, just he was clearly not ready and his problems should have been dealt with before being back on the team. Just another knock against Nightwing leadership but maybe he needed Arsenal active I guess.

 

[Veelk]

Not just the Aqualad stuff but everything she done. The fact they are supposed to be champions of Justice I assumed she would confess everything.

The representatives of Krolotean general she mind raped comes back asking for justice, they did present him in that galactic court with the Justice League he was a prisoner and was tortured by her. According to the galaxy the Justice League are the bad guys (not their fault) I don't see why the main members have to take heat for her actions.

If the Lagoon Boy allegation is true will he hold no grudge, his affection for MM and hate for Super Boy caused him to get captured and his zeal/hotheadedness to save MM got him injured badly by Deathstroke.

As far as I know, the kroloteans don't seem to care, now that they're little war with earth is over. Besides, for them to come seeking justice, they'd also have to answer for the war crimes they committed. It's unknown whether there are such things though, at least in earth's section, since Mongol can apparently happily stroll in to destroy the planet with billions of lives on it on a whim. It could very well be that, legally speaking, MM didn't do anything wrong.

If the Kroloteans come in asking for justice, then maybe we'll see what they will do, but for now, you suggesting handing herself over to a legal force that doesn't seem to exist.

Edit: Keep in mind that the last time we saw Kroloteans, one was wondering why they didn't just bribe the court, to which the other replied that they refused to do that, prompting the first to call them savages. So yeah, I think it's safe to assume that the kroloteans don't care.

 

[Parallax]

It was fear because he was afraid for HIS safety, so he (unintentionally, but willingly) sacrificed his teams. If your saying emotions justify bad actions, then Megan's secret keeping is just as justified.

That's usually what fear is. And that's exactly what I'm saying. If mgann is justified, then so is roy since their known actions are about equal with the potential of getting teammates injured or killed.

 

[Veelk]

That's usually what fear is. And that's exactly what I'm saying. If mgann is justified, then so is roy since their known actions are about equal with the potential of getting teammates injured or killed.

I don't think Mgann's secret keeping put anyone in danger though. Nightwing was left in the dark about aqualad, but that didn't hurt anyone, and she didn't have the authority to tell anyone else about the secret mission. Roy's actions were actively hurting the team though. MM's just had the potential to if something extraneous would happen.

 

[Ducarmel]

If the Kroloteans come in asking for justice, then maybe we'll see what they will do, but for now, you suggesting handing herself over to a legal force that doesn't seem to exist.

Then what are the main Justice League Members doing in that court if no legal force exist.

I don't know if they want MM or care to find justice but clearly it is evidence used against the Justice League and at least in the legal context of the JL universe its illegal to torture prisoners.

 

[Parallax]

I don't think Mgann's secret keeping put anyone in danger though. Nightwing was left in the dark about aqualad, but that didn't hurt anyone, and she didn't have the authority to tell anyone else about the secret mission. Roy's actions were actively hurting the team though. MM's just had the potential to if something extraneous would happen.

The mind wiping that almost blew their cover and would have most definitely gotten kaldur and Artemis killed. His actions while dangerous only mattered in the team getting captured. With Bart taken out first the team wouldn't have fared better whether or not the airlock was thrown. Although seeing the sphere drift into space was pretty hilarious

 

[Veelk]

Then what are the main Justice League Members doing in that court if no legal force exist.

I don't know if they want MM or care to find justice but clearly it is evidence used against the Justice League and at least in the legal context of the JL universe illegal to torture prisoners.

Answering for crimes they commited in an entirely different section of the galaxy. I'm saying there doesn't seem to exist the same kind of legal jurisdiction in earth's sector. That or Kroloteans don't seem to care if there are.

The mind wiping that almost blew their cover and would have most definitely gotten kaldur and Artemis killed. His actions while dangerous only mattered in the team getting captured. With Bart taken out first the team wouldn't have fared better whether or not the airlock was thrown. Although seeing the sphere drift into space was pretty hilarious

Had Kaldur truly betrayed them, then he'd have been a force to be reckoned with and alerted the entire section to their presence, so I don't think blowing their cover is a valid excuse that can be used in that situation. THe fact is that Nightwing's plan necessitates the idea that Kaldur fights the team at some point. He could have told more of his team, but that risks the secret getting out. It's a very dangerous operation, and Mgann used the only force she knew how to immediately take down Kaldur, who would know their weaknesses and present possibly the greatest threat on the ship for that reason. The immorality of Mgann's actions lie more in the fact that she does this to helpless prisoners of war. Active enemy combatants are a different scenario and should be evaluated as such.

And that is a HUGE presumption that any one of the team couldn't have just randomly flown out the airlock. It was the chanciest thing he could have done, and could have EASILY gotten them killed. Not to mention that because of the airlock thing, they were in a weakened state, unable to counter BB's attacks as well. Arsenal put the team in greater danger of his own will than mgann ever did out of ignorance.

 

[TheWon]

Not just the Aqualad stuff but everything she done. The fact they are supposed to be champions of Justice I assumed she would confess everything.

The representatives of Krolotean general she mind raped comes back asking for justice, they did present him in that galactic court with the Justice League he was a prisoner and was tortured by her. According to the galaxy the Justice League are the bad guys (not their fault) I don't see why the main members have to take heat for her actions.

If the Lagoon Boy allegation is true will he hold no grudge, his affection for MM and hate for Super Boy caused him to get captured and his zeal/hotheadedness to save MM got him injured badly by Deathstroke.

Edit: Also not excusing Arsenals action he deserves to be kicked off, just he was clearly not ready and his problems should have been dealt with before being back on the team. Just another knock against Nightwing leadership but maybe he needed Arsenal active I guess.

Ya this version of Nightwing is clearly based off the early days of Titan comics. When he came back during the Outsiders days he was all business and only cared about the mission. Arsenal accused him off not having a heart so it's funny to see this change.

 

[Parallax]

Had Kaldur truly betrayed them, then he'd have been a force to be reckoned with and alerted the entire section to their presence, so I don't think blowing their cover is a valid excuse that can be used in that situation. THe fact is that Nightwing's plan necessitates the idea that Kaldur fights the team at some point. He could have told more of his team, but that risks the secret getting out. It's a very dangerous operation, and Mgann used the only force she knew how to immediately take down Kaldur, who would know their weaknesses and present possibly the greatest threat on the ship for that reason. The immorality of Mgann's actions lie more in the fact that she does this to helpless prisoners of war. Active enemy combatants are a different scenario and should be evaluated as such.

And that is a HUGE presumption that any one of the team couldn't have just randomly flown out the airlock. It was the chanciest thing he could have done, and could have EASILY gotten them killed. Not to mention that because of the airlock thing, they were in a weakened state, unable to counter BB's attacks as well.

She has an enmense powerset and retreated to mind wipe as an attack And no, enemy combatants aren't a justifiable reason to use said powers. We have damn judicial body for a reason.

And I'm not saying that no one would have fallen out of the airlock, im saying regardless of the airlock, with Bart out of the way, they didn't stand a chance

 

[Veelk]

She has an enmense powerset and retreated to mind wipe as an attack And no, enemy combatants aren't a justifiable reason to use said powers. We have damn judicial body for a reason.

And I'm not saying that no one would have fallen out of the airlock, im saying regardless of the airlock, with Bart out of the way, they didn't stand a chance

Again, I find impossible to truly call, besides clearly putting the team in danger by opening the airlock, because a hundred different things could have happened if they were not weakened. Maybe someone could have called for back up. Maybe they could have delayed him long enough to awaken Bart. Maybe, all combined, they could have taken him somehow. It's all possible. Just extending the fight to be longer could have changed things entirely. But even if not, that doesn't change the fact that he could have easily gotten them all killed. It's not comparable to Mgann's ruthless methods that can only affect the team in very extraneous situations like if a former friend is actually just undercover.

Also, they weren't in america at the time, they were under the sea. You'll have to check up with the Atlantean government to see how that works out. Though I wouldn't be against lethal force (with limitations obviously) against superpowered people. Given the need to remain hidden and the danger theoretically aqualad posed, I think his situation was an acceptable use of lethal force, but that's just me.

 

[Parallax]

Again, I find impossible to truly call, besides clearly putting the team in danger by opening the airlock, because a hundred different things could have happened if they were not weakened. Maybe someone could have called for back up. Maybe they could have delayed him long enough to awaken Bart. Maybe, all combined, they could have taken him somehow. It's all possible. Just extending the fight to be longer could have changed things entirely. But even if not, that doesn't change the fact that he could have easily gotten them all killed.

Also, they weren't in america at the time, they were under the sea. You'll have to check up with the Atlantean government to see how that works out. Though I wouldn't be against lethal force (with limitations obviously) against superpowered people. Personally, given the kind of threat Kaldur could be, I wouldn't say that using lethal force against him in that situation would be immoral, but that's just me.

You find it impossible to call whether the battle damaged team had a chance against the actualized beetle? The same beetles the lanterns don't get involved with? The reach had plans for them, which is why he knocked them out rather than killing them. The airlock didn't do anymore damage to them than they had acquired throughout the exchange with monguls warworld.

And Atlantis does have laws, with there being a monarchy in place, and even considering, i dont think knocking him out to face justice to be a difficult job for someone of her skill set.

 

[Veelk]

You find it impossible to call whether the battle damaged team had a chance against the actualized beetle? The same beetles the lanterns don't get involved with? The reach had plans for them, which is why he knocked them out rather than killing them. The airlock didn't do anymore damage to them than they had acquired throughout the exchange with monguls warworld.

They were obviously much more winded after the airlock was opened and closed than they were at the start of the battle. The lack of oxygen weakened them. And while I agree they didn't have a big chance against BB, the fact is that power alone doesn't determine the victor especially in stories. Something could have happened that they could have managed to get the upper hand. Or simply delaying him longer could have resulted in none of the team getting captured atleast. In any case, we're going off on a tangent. Whether the rest of the team had a chance or not is immaterial because the point here is that Arsenal put them in much greater danger than they would have been by opening that airlock and that's makes him an active, willful danger to the ENTIRE team compared to Mgann's indirect, ignorant danger just to aqualad.

And Atlantis does have laws, with there being a monarchy in place, and even considering, i dont think knocking him out to face justice to be a difficult job for someone of her skill set.

I know it does, but I see no reason to assume they are similar to ours, not to mention that even if they are, if our world had superheroes, I think the laws would radically change to be much more brutal simply as a necessity for survival. Anyway, as far as we know, she didn't do anything illegal, even by our laws, unless our government has a law that forbids psychics from mind raping people.

But as far as I know, there is no record of MM being able to instantly knock out people. She can mindcontrol them through subliminal suggestions, or she can tear their minds apart, but there is nothing indicating she can just knock out someone who is aware of her. She needed Aqualad out, fast and quiet. As far as I know, the only power that she has that that is guaranteed to do that is her mindrape.

Edit: well, we probably do have a law against lobotomizing people, regardless of tools. But whatever, it's still not in our jurisdiction and it may not be how Atlantis rides.

 

[Boss Doggie]

No.

Why not? I mean Guy is an active GL of Earth here and surely he'd return from Oa after reporting.

In the first season the Forever People showed up and said someone was transporting 4th world shit to earth.

Yeah this. Desaad has appeared there.

 

[Htown]

Why not? I mean Guy is

No.

 

[Wingfan19]

Why does Earth have 4 Green Lanterns? Do other planets have more than one? I know each is supposed to have a "sector", but Hal, Guy, Kyle, and John all seem to defend Earth unless I missed something.

 

[TheWon]

Why does Earth have 4 Green Lanterns? Do other planets have more than one? I know each is supposed to have a "sector", but Hal, Guy, Kyle, and John all seem to defend Earth unless I missed something.

They all came in after certain things happen. Guy replaced Hal on Earth because he was always in deep space. Not sure about why John got a ring, but I assume it has to do when Hal was Parallax. Then Kyle was the last GL aka the Touch Bearer after Parrallax destroyed the entire GL Corp.

Sorry John got a ring when Guy was injured.

 

[Boss Doggie]

No.

But beggars can't be choosers!

Imagine if Guy was working with them. A lot of problems would have been solved!

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

They all came in after certain things happen. Guy replaced Hal on Earth because he was always in deep space. Not sure about why John got a ring, but I assume it has to do when Hal was Parallax. Then Kyle was the last GL aka the Touch Bearer after Parrallax destroyed the entire GL Corp.

Sorry John got a ring when Guy was injured.

And the new fifth one, Simon Baz, got his when the ring thought Hal and Sinestro were dead.

As for the white martian thing, it's not that she was secretive about it, but that white Martians were bloodthirsty monsters that usually destroy everything in their path. She could be doing what comes natural to her

I remember reading the producers on this show saying that the different Martian races in the YJ universe were more akin to human races, with simple cosmetic differences, than sci-fi races with inbred alignments.


EDIT- Here it is, from Greg Weisman:

http://s8.org/gargoyles/comment/archive/index.php?archive_date=2012-10-14

Comics canon doesn't necessarily apply to Young Justice. In Young Justice, White Martians are not evil. They are one of three "races" of the Martian species, and they are discriminated against by the Reds and Greens. Miss Martian inherits her skin tone from her White Martian father; her mother is a Green Martian and is Martian Manhunter's sister. Martian Manhunter's true form looks much like Miss Martian's true form, only larger and green. The form we know him best in is not his real one.

But beggars can't be choosers!

Imagine if Guy was working with them. A lot of problems would have been solved!

Either way, since humanity invited the Reach, none of the Green Lanterns are allowed on Earth.

 

[Odoul]

I used to think comparisons were hyperbolic. But this run of Young Justice really can hang with the Cadmus arc of Justice League Unlimited.

It really is ridiculous that series with as much love and quality pumped into them as this, or Tron, or Sym-Bionic Titan can just get broomed so unceremoniously.

 

[Slayven]

Too bad they spent 2 years losing to the Light. Wish they would have done some fun eps like visiting the 853rd century.

 

[Aasir Osu]

So, in the episode where the team infiltrated Lexcorp farms (and our first look at Arsenal, and his issues) there was an exchange that took place between Lex & Vandal; it was implied that they knew the Justice League would raid the facility, and that the "Additive" would be discovered.

Of course, that makes a certain amount of sense; if you publicly announce a deal with an alien race that the good guys know are really bad aliens, you should logically conclude the heroes would investigate. That was my first hint that The Light might be double dealing in some fashion or it was their usual omniscience; the only issue/bit of confusion with that is Green Beetle - in retrospect, it appears that both The Light and The Reach planned/anticipated that they would be exposed, in order to get Green in good with the team if nothing else. It's been said before, but the betrayal angle (against The Reach) while it makes sense considering who we're talking about, seems rushed.

I for one hope that the bad guys don't betray each other; despite the egos involved, Lex or Vandal or the others double crossing each other seems like such a cliche thing to do. As much as I love the heroes, I'm equally fond of this villain association, and its a shame that the show didn't, and now won't,have time to delve into it some more; I think the motives of this group of bad guys and why they came together deserve some further expanding upon - especially considering the level of tech already at their disposal. Why go through all of this, when they can create clones, robots, mind control, etc.

 

[Infinite Justice]

got to check out the Hunt and damn there are too many instances of showing stuff that can lead to a possible Darksied team up (fatherbox, Desaad in season one, members on the light's payroll using weapon's from Apokolips, New Gods from season one). I wouldn't be surprised tbh since the Light seems to want to invite everyone to this fucking party.


As for Roy Nightwing did what he thought was right for the team but it kinda blew up in his face when he saw the fatherbox lol.


And i think this might be a good thing for Roy since he will now have people to watch out for (i will call them this world's version of the Outsiders lol) but with 3 eps left we'll see.

 

[Poyunch]

Wally,

Please come back.

Love,
everyone

 

[Infinite Justice]

Wally,

Please come back.

Love,
everyone

No

Love,
Wally

 

[Lonestar]

I keep wondering if Brainiac will show up. Keep thinking back to that first Black Beetle/Blue Beetle battle. When Black Beetle first turns his chest into a cannon, it's got a Brainiac symbol in the middle of it. Or at least looks like one.

But that's the only possible hint I've seen.

 

[Boss Doggie]

got to check out the Hunt and damn there are too many instances of showing stuff that can lead to a possible Darksied team up (fatherbox, Desaad in season one, members on the light's payroll using weapon's from Apokolips, New Gods from season one). I wouldn't be surprised tbh since the Light seems to want to invite everyone to this fucking party.


As for Roy Nightwing did what he thought was right for the team but it kinda blew up in his face when he saw the fatherbox lol.


And i think this might be a good thing for Roy since he will now have people to watch out for (i will call them this world's version of the Outsiders lol) but with 3 eps left we'll see.

Now the question is if it was meant for season 3 or this season.

Not that we'll ever know.

 

[Erv]

So we have 3 episodes left?

 

[Slayven]

I keep wondering if Brainiac will show up. Keep thinking back to that first Black Beetle/Blue Beetle battle. When Black Beetle first turns his chest into a cannon, it's got a Brainiac symbol in the middle of it. Or at least looks like one.

But that's the only possible hint I've seen.

Nah, Brainiac has nothing to do with The Reach and the Scarabs.

 

[CryptiK]

Nah, Brainiac has nothing to do with The Reach and the Scarabs.

It could have but we will never know since the show has been cancelled