MGSV: Ground Zeroes - Spoilers Thread - #TeamBowie
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PoemOfTheLastMoment
Banned
Everyone seems to forget that Volgin was fried by a bolt of lightning. Ratman/Skullface looks like someone who suffered from heavy burns. Volgin also appears in a hallucinatory sequence in the Phantom Pain.
I already conceded that she was raped due to the Kojima commentary.
"She's a nice catch, I'll take her." She's beautiful, he derives more pleasure from torturing her than he would otherwise.
"Sokolov isn't man enough to have a lover like you." Isn't this said when Sokolov is pissing himself on the ground? This seems like a jab at Sokolov much more than a gay man commenting on his ability to be a better lover to a woman than her supposed man.
"You can entertain me until the rain stops." Again, if he's a sadist, he'd be more entertained by torturing her than having sex with her, not to mention he's gay.
"Come, we're going to my room." See above.
But, as you said, this was all up for interpretation. I always found the fact that he's gay and a sadist a deal-breaker for EVA not being raped.
Again, I concede after seeing the commentary.
Pray tell, where'd you hear about vagina bombs and prisoners being forced to rape each other at Guantanamo Bay?
Ok.
Portable Ops (which is kind of canon):
Snake is arrested, and accused of being a criminal. He is imprisoned on a base by an offshoot, 'evil' FOX team. In prison, where you start the game, he meets Roy Campbell. They escape and form a military by recruiting soldiers who are being led by 'bad' FOX, in the San Hieronymo Peninsula where the game takes place. You destroy Metal Gear RAXA, a Metal Gear that has been designed by Sokolov (he is still alive, and the Metal Gear moves on 4, not 2, legs). Your forces expand, and you face Gene, the leader of 'bad' FOX. He is the result of a project to create a successor to The Boss (he isn't a clone, but a person trained to be that way). He gives you funds to build Outer Heaven as he dies. Cleared of your criminal charges, Big Boss forms FOXHOUND to overtake the corrupted FOX Unit, along with Roy Campbell and your soldiers.
Shit to clear up. You meet Grey Fox, as 'Null', a ninja (it'll probably be erased from the canon in The Phantom Pain). You meet some psychics. Yup.
Shit to clear up. You meet Grey Fox, as 'Null', a ninja (it'll probably be erased from the canon in The Phantom Pain). You meet some psychics. Yup.
Peace Walker (all you really need to know0:
Snake has formed a 'Military without Borders' with Kaz 'Master' Miller. They meet Paz, a girl who asks them to visit a country that is being overtaken to help. They visit said country, build their resources and their military on an offshore rig called 'Mother Base'. You destroy several Metal Gear like machines, and meet Huey, Otacon's father, who helped make them. You meet Strangelove, a scientist who loves The Boss, and implants The Boss' intelligence onto a nuclear capable robot in order to have a rational person behind the choice of pulling the nuclear trigger. Mother Base decides to build a Metal Gear, called ZEKE, that's nuclear capable to deter governments from trying to attack Mother Base. Snake destroys Peace Walker, and The Boss' final act is to sink the robot by committing suicide as the giant mech. Paz, it turns out, was a traitor. In the final act she hijacks ZEKE, forcing you to destroy it. She is presumed dead. Snake adopts the title 'Big Boss'. Kaz reveals that he is also a double agent, working with and against Cipher for his own personal ends. Big Boss doesn't care. The end.
Oh, Cipher is the early start of the Patriots. Cipher means 'Zero', bla bla. Snake also slices and stiches his stomach into an 'S' like The Boss had, prior to the beginning of the game, as a tribute. It also contains a wire to help in a prison escape attempt.
Oh, Cipher is the early start of the Patriots. Cipher means 'Zero', bla bla. Snake also slices and stiches his stomach into an 'S' like The Boss had, prior to the beginning of the game, as a tribute. It also contains a wire to help in a prison escape attempt.
Wow, I don't think I can go briefer. Sorry about that.
Dick Justice
Banned
Pretty sure Volgin was bisexual. And it was very heavily implied that he fucked EVA, consensually or not.
Valkyri von Thanatos
Member
Don't have the to link it, but it is very obvious that he takes Tatyana (EVA) as a sex slave basically.
As for GZ's disturbing content not fitting with the fact there are silly side-ops.
I'm pretty sure he has made the side missions have silliness specifically because of the darkness of everything else. They're non canon, and provide relief from the intensity of the narrative. He specified he kept cardboard boxes out of Ground Zeroes for the same reason, they'd be out of place in the main story.
In regards to Skullface being Volgin, seeing as he talks directly about receiving orders by proxy from Zero, we can conclude that officially XOF is a organization under control of the Patriots. How would Volgin rise so far in XOF's ranks without Cipher/Zero realizing who he was. If Skullface was someone with such an obvious grudge he'd never get so close to reaching Zero. The only explanation is that he is someone low profile enough (someone from a remote country like he says in his backstory tape) to enter XOF undetected. Zero'd never let Volgin in.
As for GZ's disturbing content not fitting with the fact there are silly side-ops.
I'm pretty sure he has made the side missions have silliness specifically because of the darkness of everything else. They're non canon, and provide relief from the intensity of the narrative. He specified he kept cardboard boxes out of Ground Zeroes for the same reason, they'd be out of place in the main story.
In regards to Skullface being Volgin, seeing as he talks directly about receiving orders by proxy from Zero, we can conclude that officially XOF is a organization under control of the Patriots. How would Volgin rise so far in XOF's ranks without Cipher/Zero realizing who he was. If Skullface was someone with such an obvious grudge he'd never get so close to reaching Zero. The only explanation is that he is someone low profile enough (someone from a remote country like he says in his backstory tape) to enter XOF undetected. Zero'd never let Volgin in.
He was indeed.
And Skull Face isn't Volgin, I am almost sure. There'd be no point in bringing him back. Skull Face has been burnt from a young age, according to the tapes. He also wouldn't refer to Snake as something endearing like 'Big Boss', and he wouldn't personally be working with Major Zero. Sense, it makes none.
I agree with this.
I also don't see why all humor has to be dropped from a game just because it wants to try and tackle some sensitive issues. Does it have to be one or the other, never both?
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I'm not disproving anything any more, I simply explained on each point you made why those never rang me as "he raped EVA". Elaborating on my ideas is all.
It was never outright stated that he wasn't bisexual, but seeing as I didn't buy the theory that he raped EVA, I didn't see any reason to believe he was bisexual.
I'm thankful that it doesn't completely ignore the horrors of war. If Kojima is serious about repercussions then TPP should have ramifications for GZ actions. For instance, killing more than five soldiers in GZ should result in heightened alert phases on XOF bases in TPP.
In COD, war is monotonous. After killing the 100 soldier in a level you start to become a cold killer in the game with no consequence. Kojima makes you think about the cost of killing.
Orniletter
Banned
Precisely what I was thinking.
You had your torture scenes in MGS 1&3, the microwave in 4 etc.
But this....feels very non MGS....a bit too much like CoD .
Meh...
SkylineRKR
Member
I believe Eva also had an STD, due to Volgin's love for anal sex.
And no skullface is not volgin. It wouldn't make much sense. Even though this is MGS.
And no skullface is not volgin. It wouldn't make much sense. Even though this is MGS.
thesuperfunk
Member
Very handy, thanks!
She had proctitis, which isn't confirmed to come from sex with Volgin, but would be incredibly likely. There's another piece of evidence for you rvy.
Also doubt that Skull Face is Volgin. Not because of his height (in this series, something like 'height' would be so easily retconned), but I just don't see Kojima wanting to rehash a character that he hasn't shown much interest in after MGS3 (10 years ago). The similarities probably aren't coincidental though, because Skull Face is actually
Raikov!!!
it's not that all the humour has been dropped, just seemingly sidelined out of the main story and more as a side ops sort of thing.
i dunno. i think a humourless metal gear definitely has a right to exist, even for just a single game.
I thought you were joking with the STD but oh god it's real.
You learn about it if you go into the healing menu in MGS3, you can read her medical history... she also has enlargements. But you didn't need to be told that to know.
What about Coldman?Agreed and I share the same sentimentality.
Also Skull Face is not Volgin.
Volgin is 6'7'', Big Boss is 6'3'' according to each character wiki. Skull Face is the same height as that group of soldiers, Volgin would tower over those soldiers.
It's not that it has to be dropped, but when you go to this extreme you have to be very careful with its placement. Stuff like Mount Snakemore would stand out even more than it already does in MGS4, and even the usual tacky gameplay details (magazines distracting enemies, the posters...) could come off as rather tasteless. It all depends, but keep in mind that in a trailer and the prologue we've already seen/heard:
- Long, multiple torture sessions, both physical and psychological.
- A kid being forced to rape and torture a grown woman.
- Said woman getting two bombs implanted, one gets removed without any sort of anesthesia, the other in her vagina, which ultimately obliterates her.
- The slaughter of the Mother Base, with seemingly only a handful of people surviving.
- Kaz loses his eyes and two limbs.
- Big Boss loses an arm.
- Child soldiers
- Slavery.
- Huey getting tortured with electricity
- A guy getting waterboarded and then shot.
- A kid being forced to rape and torture a grown woman.
- Said woman getting two bombs implanted, one gets removed without any sort of anesthesia, the other in her vagina, which ultimately obliterates her.
- The slaughter of the Mother Base, with seemingly only a handful of people surviving.
- Kaz loses his eyes and two limbs.
- Big Boss loses an arm.
- Child soldiers
- Slavery.
- Huey getting tortured with electricity
- A guy getting waterboarded and then shot.
That's quite a bit of heavy stuff.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
Hold on, did Kaz actually confess to Big Boss in Peace Walker that he and Zero were working together from the beginning? I was under the impression that he didn't.
Also, apparently Huey gave green light the UN inspection, so now it makes sense that he's being tortured by Ocelot in the GDC '13 trailer.
Also, apparently Huey gave green light the UN inspection, so now it makes sense that he's being tortured by Ocelot in the GDC '13 trailer.
So Mark Millar actually did that one already? Hahaha!
It hasn't been acknowledged at all (not even in timelines and such) for quite a while.
I think it was canonical back when they wanted to sell it, and that's pretty much it.
Well, it's not like Kojima is above some retconning here and there... but yeah, I seem to remember that Psycho Mantis-looking character looked too young (Chico would be 22 or so, at the time).
Yep. I still want to see how it all plays out (including the main game, whenever it comes out... they seem to go back to child prisoners and torture, so...), but I'm not exactly optimistic.
And there's some psychic foreshadowing that doesn't quite pay off. Something about his sons destroying/saving the world, when really, Zero and his AIs were the bad guys. Ah, well.
He doesn't quite tell him that though. Merely that he always knew something was up with the whole mission.
She really could have gotten that elsewhere, especially considering her line of work.
The Silver
Member
Game Informer asked Kojima if PO was canon and he said it was but it just wasn't a "main story".
It doesn't really matter at this point. Kojima has been retconning stuff from that game, and it sounds like it's going to continue with TPP. At this point, it's basically Ghost Babel in terms of importance.
It's between "electrical burn" and "blow sustained" on her medical history.
This is why games can't be subtle, people refuse to acknowledge things if they're not outright stated.
It's why I regard it as the worst Metal Gear game I've played. Gameplay-wise it's decent, albeit it repetitive but the story is one of the worst game stories I've sat through in a long ass time. Utterly garbage and really ruined my overall enjoyment of it.
Some elements of the story appealed to me - primarily Big Boss's own growth, etc. but the whole AI stuff? *barf*
When was that?
EDIT:
Found it:
Okay. ^^;
I've read the thing. I just don't know that I'd look too much into it (it also lists old stuff, like the breast enhancement).
Gee, thanks, man.
WrenchNinja
Member
What has been retconned exactly from Portable Ops?
y u no like crying Mecha The Boss?
Game was terrible. I had to force myself to play it and only did so because I was playing with friends.
RyanardoDaVinci
Member
Chico as Decoy Octopus would be a mind fuck, but think about it for a second:
That would make Chico, Ocelot, Liquid (Eli) and Psycho Mantis(Young) of the FOXHOUND unit from MGS1.
We'd only need to connect Quiet with Sniper Wolf somehow and the Code Talker with the Shaman Vulcan Raven.
In MGS1 Ocelot states: "FoxDie... It killed Octopus and the ArmsTech president... So it's true that it affects older people first. Mantis might not have been affected because he wore a mask."
Going by that, Octopus is one of the oldest members of the group, maybe even older than Ocelot.
Not like that really matters though, Kojima couldn't stick to the canon if it were covered in superglue.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
So was that certain credits thing a fake?
Yes. No David Hayter.
Hideo Kojima was interviewed a little while ago, and he stated clearly that Portable Ops is indeed canon. It fits in the timeline although he also said he considered it a "small part" of it.
Absolutely nothing. It's just the usual childish attitude of "I didn't like it, so I'll pretend it's not canon". Quite lame.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Yeah, I can't believe how much of a chore that game was. Both portable games have mostly forgettable characters and storylines. It's unfortunate MGSV has all this lame baggage from PW.
The fates of Chico and Paz are probably the least interesting parts about the story for me right now. Never cared for them anyway.
When specifically asked about it, I guess (and I don't quite imagine him going "nah, but thanks for buying it based on my saying it was back when it was released!"). Konami no longer acknowledges the game otherwise.
I guess there would be Snake's attitude regarding the Boss, how he seemingly was over the whole thing in one game, and then not at all after all four years later... But yeah, it's not like there's been an actual retcon festival or anything. Not yet, anyway.
Why, thank you too. Must be my birthday or something.
valentine71
Banned
So, i remember somebody saying that there was a free mode where you could explore the base, fight against soldiers, etc. etc. Is there one? If there is how do you unlock it? Also how do you unlock PS versions exc. mission?
EmCeeGramr
Member
Peace Walker contradicts and ignores Portable Ops on multiple key points.
The medical injuries were pretty obviously in chronological order, considering that the breast enlargement part was near the bottom and around stuff like 'cold' and 'stomachache'. IIRC, Snake's injuries are shown in chronological order too but I'd have to turn my game on to confirm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at2LeZnH17w
I must say my memory is a bit blurry (it's been a while). Could you elaborate, regarding the contradictions?
Yeah, I remember thinking EVA apparently had quite the uneventful life prior to the events of this game, based on that list. I think it's mostly an Easter egg, is all.
Point is, I wasn't denying Volgin had sex with her, since it seems that's how you took my comment. I always thought that was pretty obvious.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Portable Ops ends with Big Boss getting tons of money and resources from Gene with the implication being that it'll build Outer Heaven in the future.
Peace Walker starts with Kaz and Boss almost totally broke with MSF and needing Cipher and Zadornov's resources to get started.
Metal Gear RAXA and the ICBMG are the first Metal Gears according to PoOPs, built by a surviving Sokolov working off of Granin's plans.
In Peace Walker, Peace Walker and ZEKE are treated as the first realization of Granin's Metal Gear idea, with RAXA and the ICBMG never mentioned, Sokolov is only mentioned as the Shagohod's creator.
In Portable Ops they reveal that The Boss's death was planned from the very start by the CIA and that Volgin firing the Davy Crockett was all part of the plan. Big Boss demands to know who planned it.
In Peace Walker The Boss's death is treated the same way as in MGS3; an expendable loss by desperate bureaucrats, with parallels drawn to the space flight mission she went on. Big Boss meets the guy who planned Operation Snake Eater for the CIA and... just sort of thinks he's a jerk, without any of the fury you'd expect if he'd ever been told that the CIA deliberately set The Boss up.
It's been a while, but I also sort of recall that the conclusion about The Boss's death that Big Boss comes to at the end of PoOps is totally the opposite as the "laying down her gun" at the end of Peace Walker, and Big Boss starts Peace Walker still confused and unsure about The Boss's motives.
Peace Walker starts with Kaz and Boss almost totally broke with MSF and needing Cipher and Zadornov's resources to get started.
Metal Gear RAXA and the ICBMG are the first Metal Gears according to PoOPs, built by a surviving Sokolov working off of Granin's plans.
In Peace Walker, Peace Walker and ZEKE are treated as the first realization of Granin's Metal Gear idea, with RAXA and the ICBMG never mentioned, Sokolov is only mentioned as the Shagohod's creator.
In Portable Ops they reveal that The Boss's death was planned from the very start by the CIA and that Volgin firing the Davy Crockett was all part of the plan. Big Boss demands to know who planned it.
In Peace Walker The Boss's death is treated the same way as in MGS3; an expendable loss by desperate bureaucrats, with parallels drawn to the space flight mission she went on. Big Boss meets the guy who planned Operation Snake Eater for the CIA and... just sort of thinks he's a jerk, without any of the fury you'd expect if he'd ever been told that the CIA deliberately set The Boss up.
It's been a while, but I also sort of recall that the conclusion about The Boss's death that Big Boss comes to at the end of PoOps is totally the opposite as the "laying down her gun" at the end of Peace Walker, and Big Boss starts Peace Walker still confused and unsure about The Boss's motives.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I will say, I think MPO's cast is more interesting than PW, but not by much. At least it feels like they were trying. Peace Walker is just a tedious, uninspired retread.
It's mostly MPO's twists and retcons that rubbed me the wrong way...
"Army's" Heaven, the funds handed by Gene on a silver platter, Null = Gray Fox (was that really necessary?), fuckin' Sokolov outta nowhere?? and more I'm forgetting. A true low point in the series for me
Ah, right.
And Snake doesn't react at all to the name "Metal Gear" despite the fact that should remind him of what had happened just four years earlier.
(not that Solid Snake reacts to the name "Madnar" either, in Metal Gear Solid 4 Guns of the Patriots...)
(And that was so freaking idiotic, too.)
Yeah, that's the one I remembered.
The weirdest retcon that Peace Walker had was changing Big Boss' age again, even after MGS3 already did that.
The wonky issue is that it made him younger, so if the back story of him fighting in WWII is still true, he would have been 9 years old. I know that the series has a long fascination with child soldiers, but there's no way a draft officer is going to mistake someone that young as combat capable.
The wonky issue is that it made him younger, so if the back story of him fighting in WWII is still true, he would have been 9 years old. I know that the series has a long fascination with child soldiers, but there's no way a draft officer is going to mistake someone that young as combat capable.
Was that really a retcon over Metal Gear Solid 3 Snake Eater though? I seemed to remember there was no contradiction between the two games in that regard?
Read my edit. I clarified why it's so weird.