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[JerC]

Okay, yeah.
Reverse homophobia is not a thing.
First of all, the term you're looking for is Heterophobia. Which, by the way, is not real either. Why? Because you will never see a person get beat up and possibly murdered for being Straight. You will never see a person denied vital services for being Straight. You will never see Straight people fighting for Straigh rights. You will never see a person denied a job or an opportunity for being Straight.You will never see something like the Westboro Baptist Church for Straight people.

Never.

That would be more discrimination than homophobia. You can argue it is a result of homophobia but it is not homophobia itself.

Phobia is an irrational fear. So if someone has an irrational fear of straight people they are a heterophobe by its very definition.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Also wasn't trevor from GTA bi?

 

[besada]

I've got nothing against gays but I don't like political agendas invading gaming space. Push political agendas where it belongs. Why can't we talk about just games here?

Because video games exist in the real world and are tied to real world culture and real world politics. You can ignore politics if you choose, but that doesn't make it go away, it only means you've stuck your head in the sand. And you're welcome to do that, but, if you do, it would probably be wise not to come into threads and complain about them. If you want to ignore the political and cultural aspect of video games, you're going to have to do it on your own, because the rest of us are going to keep discussing it.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

That's what I was gonna say.
I assume we're thinking of the same thing.
But it's impossible to say the name of the character without giving huge spoilers.
If the game gets a sequel, then I think we will see a huge AAA game get a gay lead.

Yup. This quote will probably be invalidated in a couple years.

 

[Eusis]

So are games supposed to cater to every niche in every gender, religion, race, nationality, etc?

Admittedly this IS a reply to someone that got banned, but:

Variety is the spice of life! It's not so much every game has to please everyone, as that some games could afford to have characters that represent different people, and not try to be subtle about it or not make it obvious (I'm sure Nathan Drake's really hispanic for instance, but he otherwise would fit under the white everyman label), and this is an issue more for set protagonists anyway than ones where you make your own.

 

[vasametropolis]

Okay, yeah.
Reverse homophobia is not a thing.
First of all, the term you're looking for is Heterophobia. Which, by the way, is not real either. Why? Because you will never see a person get beat up and possibly murdered for being Straight. You will never see a person denied vital services for being Straight. You will never see Straight people fighting for Straigh rights. You will never see a person denied a job or an opportunity for being Straight.You will never see something like the Westboro Baptist Church for Straight people.

Never.

Forget it I'm out of here. You're not getting the (supposed to be light and fun) reference and you're getting mad at nothing.

Translation: Making scores of gay characters is just as bad of a solution because the people responsible for making them will only be doing it out of fear of being branded homophobic, which is just as bad a reason to not do it in the first place. Next you'll ask how I know this, and it's because the majority of people in charge right now are clearly heterosexual. The right thing done for the wrong reasons... is it any better?

Forcing it is bad. Players should be able to experience it how they choose. You're welcome for me being patient. That's "reverse homophobia."

 

[SeriousApes]

Maybe I enjoy games differently than most people. I'm reading a few responses about the need to relate to a character in order to enjoy the game. But I tend to pretend I'm going on a journey with the protagonist. I don't try to insert myself into the character, even though I'm controlling him/her/it. So I don't have that same issue with needing to relate to the character. They can be whatever, as long they're interesting (for narrative focused games), I'm down.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Of course you don't. Probably because you have never been marginalized because of who you are.

This is what we in the industry call "privilege"

Nope. Part of the LGBT community and still don't see the huge deal. Most characters in most games have no sexuality. Let's not assume things.

Most AAA games are aimed at male middle-teens.

Anyone who is, or has been, a 14 year old male can tell you that a gay main character would not go down well with the majority of that demographic.

Sure, when we get older we learn to respect other people. But when you are a young straight guy, being called "gay" is an insult.

Just play COD online for five minutes and count how many times you hear the word "Faggot" as an insult.

I was part of my school's GSA at 14. This isn't a "Young male" problem. It's a "stupid societal preconceptions" problem. Positive representation is part of how we change that.

Because I'm passionate about equal representation and I'm fed up of ignorant white/straight male gamers bitching about possibly adding a gay person to their favourite franchises in case they have to see a gay person :O

With all the people getting banned lately for saying stupid shit about gay people, how is this equally ignorant comment okay?

 

[Crowbear]

If it was not going to happen without you complaining first, if that is not what the original writer had in mind, then it's pushing an agenda. Unless we talk about character creation and stuff like that, then it's alright to expand the options accordingly.

That's not how the industry works. What if a writer wants to write a gay protagonist but can't because the publisher won't let them? Is it pushing an agenda to try and convince publishers that it's ok to let writers who want to write gay characters write them?

 

[culafia]

But why do you think you would have less in common? Unless being LGBT is the focus of the story why would have you less in common with them than the master chief...

The big word there is "if." I've never played a game featuring one before, so I have no idea. However, I currently shy away from most games with female protagonists because I've never played as one who was interesting to me personally. Will there be a difference when I play a game with a gay male protagonist? I don't know. It depends how different his life experiences and personality are from mine. If one key life experience difference (gender) is enough to keep me from identifying with a character, maybe another (sexuality) will too. I don't know, but I'm willing to give it a shot when the opportunity comes.

 

[twobear]

I might slam Bioware's awful relationship writing but I think making the choices yourself in game instead of just a choice at the beginning is more interesting. You can't choose who hits on you and who is interested in what in real life (I know, I know, we're talking about a fantasy experience here but it's trying to portray something real, so stick with me here) so it's fun to explore the situation in a game.

Yeah but as I said before, even if you play a gay character you're still subjected to all this world and visual design intended for straight guys.

For instance, it's implied that the Asari don't actually 'look like' they do in the game, that's a low-level psychic ability which makes them look attractive to members of any species.

So, uhh, why are the Asari in my game all running around with big titties and low-cut jumpsuits? My Shepherd is into dudes.

As I said before, the sexuality of the character is only one part of the equation. Even allowing for the fact that Bioware lets you play a gay character, the rest of the game is still basically aimed at straight guys.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

With all the people getting banned lately for saying stupid shit about gay people, how is this equally ignorant comment okay?

It's not equally ignorant.

 

[maneil99]

No recent AAA games have indians as there protagonists, nor do many have any middle eastern protagonist, what about transvestites what about people with autism? Let's just let people make the games they want instead of pressuring them into things that have no business being in this hobby. Politics.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

This reminds of a joke theory I read somewhere about Nathan Drake being gay

Edit: Found it. It was Sterling. http://www.destructoid.com/why-nathan-drake-would-make-a-fantastic-homosexual-218743.phtml

I'd probably be gay too if my best friend was Victor 'Goddamn' Sullivan. Man's a walking slab of sexy moustache and testosterone.

 

[ncxcarnage]

This disingenuous crap. There's plenty of outward displays of romance or sex in games.

Ohhhhh yeaaa i forgot how important those segments are to the ACTUAL game. My fault.

 

[ponpo]

Maybe I enjoy games differently than most people. I'm reading a few responses about the need to relate to a character in order to enjoy the game. But I tend to pretend I'm going on a journey with the protagonist. I don't try to insert myself into the character, even though I'm controlling him/her/it. So I don't have that same issue with needing to relate to the character. They can be whatever, as long they're interesting (for narrative focused games), I'm down.

I feel the same. If it's a narrative focussed game then it can be whoever (why would I want to identify with the character? How unfortunate for them ( ≖‿&#8790) and if it's not narrative focussed I feel like there's even less to relate to. I'm not going to relate to this DemonArchMage or Lieutenant Maverick or whatever because of their character traits when their actions aren't really anything one can relate to.

The only character I can relate to is Tofu. Bring back Tofu.

 

[Real Hero]

I don't know, but I'm willing to give it a shot when the opportunity comes.

fair enough, at least you are open to it. I'd argue maybe it's the sub par writing for women characters that makes them harder to relate to, rather than the fact they are women. Though, who knows.

 

[besada]

As always, if you have comments or questions about moderation, please PM a mod or send an email to support@neogaf.com. Don't discuss it in the thread.

 

[Devolution]

The tone of these threads is always so amusing.

It's "complaining" to desire better and varied representations of groups other than white straight males.

It's also forcing a "political agenda", "political correctness gone mad" and "social justice warriors" gone too far.

And it's "catering" to create diverse characters.


You take in all the language utilized and it's apparent who the people with the "agenda" truly are.

 

[MattyG]

Yeah but as I said before, even if you play a gay character you're still subjected to all this world and visual design intended for straight guys.

For instance, it's implied that the Asari don't actually 'look like' they do in the game, that's a low-level psychic ability which makes them look attractive to members of any species.

So, uhh, why are the Asari in my game all running around with big titties and low-cut jumpsuits? My Shepherd is into dudes.

As I said before, the sexuality of the character is only one part of the equation. Even allowing for the fact that Bioware lets you play a gay character, the rest of the game is still basically aimed at straight guys.

Woah, really? That's a fascinating concept, I always thought they all were just busty blue ladies. Hopefully Bioware will explore that in the next Mass Effect.

Spoiler

They won't

 

[badcrumble]

That would be more discrimination than homophobia. You can argue it is a result of homophobia but it is not homophobia itself.

Phobia is an irrational fear. So if someone has an irrational fear of straight people they are a heterophobe by its very definition.

That's a reasonable assumption, but it's not actually true. This argument-from-etymology comes up a lot, but in the psychological field, use of the term "phobia" is used to denote aversion, not fear specifically.

 

[Sai-kun]

No recent AAA games have indians as there protaganists, nor do many have any middle eastern protagnist, what about transvestites what about people with autism? Let's just let people make the games they want instead of pressuring them into things that have no business being in this hobby. Politics.

These are all equally problematic! Absolutely correct. You raise a really good point, but the reason people here are talking about queer characters is because that's what the thread was started for

Also, indian people, middle eastern people, trans people, and autistic people absolutely have a place in games, it just needs to be found and done well, and that's pretty rude of you to say that they don't.

 

[Tigress]

Forget it I'm out of here. You're not getting the (supposed to be light and fun) reference and you're getting mad at nothing.

Translation: Making scores of gay characters is just as bad of a solution because the people responsible for making them will only be doing it out of fear of being branded homophobic, which is just as bad a reason to not do it in the first place. Next you'll ask how I know this, and it's because the majority of people in charge right now are clearly heterosexual. The right thing done for the wrong reasons... is it any better?

Forcing it is bad. Players should be able to experience it how they choose. You're welcome for me being patient.

Oh, because being branded homophobic and called a word is near as traumatizing as being beat up for being gay, or being refused jobs, or having people picket your funeral...

Also, no, not every character has to be gay. Not every character has to be straight either. And no, it's not the job of any one developer. But it would be nice to see some game stories actually be about some one other than a straight white male. You know, cause straight white males are not the only people who inhabit this earth.

No one is saying some one should be forced to make their character gay/female/black/chinese/whatever. What they're saying though is it would be nice to see some stories and to see companies not insist that the character be straight white male. In fact it would be nice to see more representation other than the occasional token one that people use to point out, "But, this game has this type character" (and note that usually it's the same games named cause there's not enough examples, which is kind of the point!)

 

[Masquerader]

Is it really so hard to make any minority lead any videogame? Really? I somehow doubt it. There is little concrete evidence that states that sales would go down if a main character was gay.

 

[Blood Diamonds]

Forget it I'm out of here. You're not getting the (supposed to be light and fun) reference and you're getting mad at nothing.

Translation: Making scores of gay characters is just as bad of a solution because the people responsible for making them will only be doing it out of fear of being branded homophobic, which is just as bad a reason to not do it in the first place. Next you'll ask how I know this, and it's because the majority of people in charge right now are clearly heterosexual. The right thing done for the wrong reasons... is it any better?

Forcing it is bad. Players should be able to experience it how they choose. You're welcome for me being patient. That's "reverse homophobia."

Yeah, how funny.
Reverse homophobia is actually a thing and it's when there's gay characters in video games.

The more you know.

 

[Hitokage]

That's what I was gonna say.
I assume we're thinking of the same thing.
But it's impossible to say the name of the character without giving huge spoilers.
If the game gets a sequel, then I think we will see a huge AAA game get a gay lead.

"I have a possible counterexample, but I won't tell anyone because that would be spoiling. You'll just have to trust me."

Sometimes worrying about spoiling is worrying about the preservation of ignorance. You have my attention, but I'm left hanging.

 

[Palette Swap]

I've got nothing against gays but I don't like political agendas invading gaming space. Push political agendas where it belongs. Why can't we talk about just games here?

It always feels unfair to me to depict these representation issues as political because "political" bears the notion that these are issues with equivalent stances and an acceptable middle ground, when there really isn't.

 

[Dany]

No recent AAA games have indians as there protagonists, nor do many have any middle eastern protagonist, what about transvestites what about people with autism? Let's just let people make the games they want instead of pressuring them into things that have no business being in this hobby. Politics.

YES. Let them make the games they want. Glad we could agree that more diverse characters sexualy and ethnically is better!

 

[JerC]

That's a reasonable assumption, but it's not actually true. This argument-from-etymology comes up a lot, but in the psychological field, use of the term "phobia" is used to denote aversion, not fear specifically.

I thought it would have to an aversion as a result of fear. Hmm guess that's my new thing learned today.

 

[maneil99]

"I have a possible counterexample, but I won't tell anyone because that would be spoiling. You'll just have to trust me."

Sometimes worrying about spoiling is worrying about the preservation of ignorance. You have my attention, but I'm left hanging.

He's right, I can't figure out how to warn the spoiler without spoiling it.

 

[ncxcarnage]

Ok guys Seriously, Someone pitch me a game. Something interesting. Make these game developers see the error of their ways and come up with something with that AAA smell to it.

 

[TheWriter]

Is it really so hard to make any minority lead any videogame? Really? I somehow doubt it. There is little concrete evidence that states that sales would go down if a main character was gay.

You could argue that with the notion that sales of games are predicted to be generally lower when you play as a female character. That seemingly seems to be enough evidence for some. Especially in AAA games, where there is huge risk involved and they try to offend as few people as possible.

"We had some [companies] that said, 'Well, we don't want to publish it because that's not going to succeed. You can't have a female character in games. It has to be a male character, simple as that,'" creative director Jean-Maxime Moris told Penny Arcade.

 

[malfcn]

It's because Dudebros and machismo is the staple of action and adventure. Part of it is still rooted in society (movies for example, and COD).
Publishers are afraid to sink $500 million into a game and fear the masses will think the game is "gay."

With the right writing it could be possible. Make a bad ass story with a character that subtly reveals their orientation naturally. Like others said, it's a part of them but isn't necessarily their identity. You don't shake hands with someone you meet and state your name and preference.

There is also a lot of characters that never have any defined preference. I imagine having a compassionate bi characters may be the easiest to pull off. Batting for neither side but will to play on either team.

 

[vasametropolis]

Yeah, how funny.
Reverse homophobia is actually a thing and it's when there's gay characters in video games.

The more you know.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_discrimination

I am FOR gay representation... Stop your witch hunt. It's a real thing. God forbid I examine all the angles.

 

[Crowbear]

Ok guys Seriously, Someone pitch me a game. Something interesting. Make these game developers see the error of their ways and come up with something with that AAA smell to it.

Uncharted only Drake likes guys instead of girls.

 

[maneil99]

YES. Let them make the games they want. Glad we could agree that more diverse characters sexualy and ethnically is better!

Hell, if they want a homosexual transvestite African American that's fine, but to try and complain to developers that don't want to or choose to is a bit silly. Like GTA 5 for example, sure a female character might work, but they don't want to do it, so let them make that choice without backlash for having their freedom of choice.

 

[kitchenmotors]

I hate, hate when people say that bringing homosexual themes into (inset media here) is a political agenda. I'd like to be represented in media, there's nothing political about that. I hate politics and I'm not trying to make a statement. I don't really complain about straight protagonists in games, but the inclusion of a gay one once in a while would be nice.

 

[Riposte]

I don't see the using the "bait and switch" tactic wouldn't make this untrue. It is not like people don't consider Samus a female character or a female main character because it wasn't on the original box art. Homosexuality isn't even a visual thing you would need to hide in plain sight; just don't advertise it as a hook like some sort of gimmicky indie title.

 

[Man God]

Yeah but as I said before, even if you play a gay character you're still subjected to all this world and visual design intended for straight guys.

For instance, it's implied that the Asari don't actually 'look like' they do in the game, that's a low-level psychic ability which makes them look attractive to members of any species.

So, uhh, why are the Asari in my game all running around with big titties and low-cut jumpsuits? My Shepherd is into dudes.

As I said before, the sexuality of the character is only one part of the equation. Even allowing for the fact that Bioware lets you play a gay character, the rest of the game is still basically aimed at straight guys.

It's a problem with how beauty is perceived by everyone. Are they really supposed to program the game differently for every possible subset? Some of my gay friends are totally into big titties and low cut jumpsuits while another shares your exact opinion on this subject. How do you manage expectations of beauty, especially fantastical beauty which doesn't have to be real in any sense of the word?

 

[badcrumble]

I thought it would have to an aversion as a result of fear. Hmm guess that's my new thing learned today.

A truly literal translation would be "fear of the same" anyway - the term "homo" on its own basically means "binary same." I'm sure there's a much longer and more literal Latin term that would be more correct, but shorthand is necessary.

 

[AppleMIX]

Yeah but as I said before, even if you play a gay character you're still subjected to all this world and visual design intended for straight guys.

For instance, it's implied that the Asari don't actually 'look like' they do in the game, that's a low-level psychic ability which makes them look attractive to members of any species.

So, uhh, why are the Asari in my game all running around with big titties and low-cut jumpsuits? My Shepherd is into dudes.

As I said before, the sexuality of the character is only one part of the equation. Even allowing for the fact that Bioware lets you play a gay character, the rest of the game is still basically aimed at straight guys.

That is most likely not correct.

The men debate whose species the asari most resembles. Upon each forwarding their own race, the human theorizes that the asari might be using mind control to appear attractive to other species, but it is more likely that the three men were merely focusing on characteristics their species shares with the asari (e.g., body shape for humans, skin color for salarians, head fringe for turians). All three men compliment the asari's flexibility and grace. This conversation implies that asari are considered attractive to many species, which would prove useful considering their method of reproduction. Mordin Solus postulates that the mechanism behind the asari's cross-species attraction may be neurochemical in nature.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Asari

 

[ncxcarnage]

Uncharted only Drake likes guys instead of girls.

Now THAT is a gamechanger. ITS REVOLUTIONARY. Someone get this guy a medal.

 

[Silky]

Because video games exist in the real world and are tied to real world culture and real world politics. You can ignore politics if you choose, but that doesn't make it go away, it only means you've stuck your head in the sand. And you're welcome to do that, but, if you do, it would probably be wise not to come into threads and complain about them. If you want to ignore the political and cultural aspect of video games, you're going to have to do it on your own, because the rest of us are going to keep discussing it.

Saved.

 

[Bright-Light]

"I have a possible counterexample, but I won't tell anyone because that would be spoiling. You'll just have to trust me."

Sometimes worrying about spoiling is worrying about the preservation of ignorance. You have my attention, but I'm left hanging.

Sorry, I just not really sure I know how to use the spoiler tags on my ipad. I was referring to

Spoiler

TLOU, When the sequel comes I would be amazed if Ellie was not the main protagonist.

 

[TSM]

This topic seems like a third rail situation in gaming at the moment. Any comments about LBGT issues from someone representing or working for a major publisher are heavily scrutinized. If there's anything to be said, it needs to be heavily vetted before it's released to the public or you end up with PR people trying to shape the message as best they can after the fact. It'll be interesting to see how publishers react moving forward. If they try and just ignore the issue, they will end up with a fiasco like Nintendo just had. So there will be some movement whether they want to or not.

 

[-PXG-]

It matters until there is equal representation of all minorities in video games. Of course it would mean little to Kirby, Sonic or Mario. For characters in 2014, some dimensionality is always a plus. Having characters that are diverse and minorities are good, they spread acceptance and reduce bigotry. How is this a crazy idea? Seeing more women lead in AAA games is awesome, having Deslin be an Akomish is great. Its not about checking some box or saying "LOOK we have a gay character, look how trendy we are" It should be normal to have some bredth in video games. Having a diverse cast of sexuality and ethnicity would be be normal. The entire entertainment industry is white-washed. And people need to know that its not okay.

Everyone is too complacent in the status quo because of how damn safe it is.



Totally. There is nothing political about Shepard boning Steve. Just Love <3

But that's what it will devolve into: Checking boxes for the sake of it and to stop people from bitching. To an extent it is a bit obnoxious seeing folks get all up in arms over something like this. I love video games and I do consider them art, but at times, I wish people kept social and political commentary and agendas out of them. At the end of the day, they're are just games. They're entertainment. They really shouldn't be taken that seriously or that much to heart. As I said, I love games to death, but folks need to chill out.

Anyway, if they decided to make Master Chief gay, what difference would it make in his character? Halo doesn't have any in-game mechanics that have anything to do with romance. It's ambiguously implied in parts of the story but it's such a minor element of the entire franchise's ethos that it would be completely irrelevant.

I don't think having gay, bi or even asexual characters is harmful. It isn't at all. Diversity is good. It just has to make sense. Sexual orientation of a character just seems arbitrary unless there are playable and story elements that give good reason as to why the audience even needs to know.

I don't think any of that is wrong or mean spirited.

 

[Sai-kun]

Hell, if they want a homosexual transvestite African American that's fine, but to try and complain to developers that don't want to or choose to is a bit silly. Like GTA 5 for example, sure a female character might work, but they don't want to do it, so let them make that choice without backlash for having their freedom of choice.

If we don't call people or companies out, things might never change. By complaining, we bring awareness to people at the very least.

 

[Gotchaye]

Ohhhhh yeaaa i forgot how important those segments are to the ACTUAL game. My fault.

I feel like this just makes the pro- having gay protagonists argument much stronger. Lots and lots of games throw in a nod to a character's sexuality in such a way that it doesn't really affect the core game. The main male character is out to rescue his girlfriend, or something like that. The game would be basically identical if he had a boyfriend instead. Or if the main character were female. Or black. Etc.

So given that it's actually pretty easy to represent different kinds of people in games without changing anything about the games that you consider substantial, it seems like a no-brainer to say that of course games should do this more often in order to signal inclusiveness and all that good stuff. Right?

 

[Slashlen]

Is it really so hard to make any minority lead any videogame? Really? I somehow doubt it. There is little concrete evidence that states that sales would go down if a main character was gay.

But there is also no concrete evidence that it wouldn't. This is more about the AAA industry being very risk adverse. Why take a risk on a gay character when you can use a safe straight white male? A lot of games would start looking the same, but the industry seems to be ok with that.

 

[Prototype]

Why does it matter what sexual orientation a video game character is?

gay people are a minority, so the answer to your question should be obvious: A Gay character will appeal to less people.

AAA games are going to try to appeal to the largest pool of potential customers possible. Various minority groups are going to be bypassed, not just the gay community. It has nothing to do with "equal rights" or any other such non-sense. It's about appeal to a large audience and it's also a profit deal.

There is nothing wrong with people not wanting to play as a gay character (or a black, Asian, ect character) just as there isn't anything wrong with wanting to play as them. But people need to keep in mind that just because minority issues get lots of attention and buzz from a small but vocal group it doesn't make their appeal increase to the broadest segment of players. Same reason why there are more movies and books about straight people then gay people. Most people aren't gay therefore, most media reflects that.

Trying to turn this issue into anything else is borderline special pleading and I personally find many of these issues to really be about people's inherent need to form angry mobs (it's more fun to be outraged with other people) as well as the internets anonymous nature to provide fertile ground for people's deep rooted desires and apparent willingness to champion nearly any cause.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The many aspects of games which traditionally allude to a character's sexuality are invisible because they're usually heterosexual in nature and taken for granted.

I've never seen much objection to "forcing" hetero characters into every game with a plot. Going by typical objections to "homosexual politicization of gaming" people should be demanding all game characters be utterly blank slates that have no attributes, say nothing, and represent no pre-formed ideas. Otherwise something is being "forced" on the game/medium/audience.