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[Brainfreeze]

It's not. Check any gaming comments site (or even this thread) and you'll see a lot of white, straight male gamers completely opposed to any forms of diversity in videogames.

It's probably the guy who wrote
post in his avatar, in which case yes, he's white.

It's not equally ignorant.

You see no issue with the above logic?

Look, I'm all for more gay characters in games. It's not about some magic number to me, quantity is meaningless. It's about quality and freedom. Writers should be able to write whatever they want (unless a sexuality is pre-established or 100% irrelevant like Kirby), and we should praise those who do it well to inspire more.

But I'm sick of these discussions turning into 'us vs. them.' bullshit. Posts that blame a specific race or gender for your issues with the industry or assume things based on a poster's point of view are backwards and, ironically, non-inclusive. Everybody should be able to (respectfully) offer their opinion on this without fearing personal attacks. It's ridiculous. You can't use your own persecutions as any excuse to persecute others, especially people on the internet you know nothing about. Just because of some assumed "privilege" for these people doesn't mean you can turn them into a punching bag. It solves nothing and benefits no one.

But, I'm off topic now, so I'll stop here.

But I don't think a AAA gay character is as far off as this writer thinks.

 

[Delusibeta]

"Explicitly branded as a failure"? I think something is being lost in the translation if you think it boils down to that.

Checking back, I'm going to stand by my post.

 

[maneil99]

Heteronormativity is so entrenched that people are essentially blind to the obvious signs of heterosexuality. When gays do it though, it's apparent because it breaks the mold.




This is bollocks. Simply put if you don't vocalize your desire for something companies won't recognize there is a market for it. You obtain nothing through silence, absolutely nothing. So when people call out minorities for "complaining" it is nothing more than a silencing tactic from people who want the status quo to continue.

So forcing and lobbying them so they half ass it and make them a stereotypical gay character is a good idea?

 

[TheWriter]

Apart from that character from street fighter (Her name escapes me, handcuffs? Ridiculously sexual?) has there been any other transgender characters, not only in AAA but indie too?

Birdo (Super Mario)

Spoiler

Kainé

(NieR) should count

Spoiler

Erica

(Catherine)

Spoiler

Gwyndolin

(Dark Souls)

Spoiler

Bridget

(Guilty Gear)

Those are the ones I remember.

 

[-PXG-]

Well of course. But so far since the inception of video games its been forced straight/white.

We've seen progress. We're seeing more women too. We're getting there.

I guess I'm just more concerned with the game being fun and it having good graphics, art and performance. Racial, ethnic and sexual diversity and representation is secondary and means nothing if the game is shitty. That's just how I think. Make the game fun and make it look good then worry about the nitty gritty.

 

[Devolution]

You say you want quality, what's more quality than a diverse cast of well written characters?

Gotta love this. People want better games with better stories but balk at the idea of minorities, gays and women not written/portrayed like shit or utterly ignored.

lol.

So forcing and lobbying them so they half ass it and make them a stereotypical gay character is a good idea?

Who's being forced here? No one. This "threat of force" is another strawman in a long line of them to pretend like the people advocating for change are bullies. I'm sick of this horseshit.

 

[Palette Swap]

It's a bit weird how all of a sudden, artistic integrity becomes central when discussing these representation issues when:
- we bitch all day long about things we'd like to change in games (we want them to pander to us I guess).
- these AAA games are designed by committee and have hundreds of people working on them. It's not like we don't know about that considering we discuss budgets and credits length on a regular basis. It's still a creative medium but let's not pretend 90% of games are the result of the creative vision of a single mastermind.
- Most games have fuck all to tell about their characters or their world. They're not about big ideas, they're not about character development and they're certainly not about realism. But all of a sudden, minorities are a threat to their integrity.

This feels like GTA V all over again.

 

[maneil99]

BrokeBack Mountain wasn't a big budget movie, it was a smaller production, I mean a film on the scale of Iron Man or even the Robocop remake.

Why are you making arbitrary rules? So now a gay character should be shoe horned into a action movie to make it more credible then a proper tale like Dallas Buyers Club or Broke Back Mountain?

 

[vasametropolis]

This is a wikipedia entry for reverse discrimination.
You're claiming that heterophobia is real.

WHERE? Slander if I've ever seen it.

 

[M3d10n]

I hope you're joking
Considering the overwhelming majority of videogames feature straight protagonists, it's not too much to ask for one fucking game where the protagonist isn't straight. God.

Bayonetta?

 

[Masquerader]

Uh, no.

This entire line of thought is both dangerous and poorly thought out.

No company is, or should be "responsible" for, promoting anything beyond what they already intend within an IP or game during development. The idea of an entertainment company being responsible or your (and others) perceived social ills is way off the mark. There shouldn't be a precedent telling companies (or anyone) what kind of things they should make. It immediately infringes upon creative freedom. This isn't the answer.

Eh, forgive my poor wording. No company HAS to. But they ARE simply refusing for the most part, i'm sorry. And nothing's really changing, to be honest. Could they REALLY not afford to take the risk of making a main character gay, or the like?

 

[……forgetit]

I guess I should elaborate, I mean the protagonist of the story, and big budget films, as in the >50 million budget crowd. I'm sure we'll get modest indie games and maybe smaller studio projects, but the OP is about AAA games.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I'd happily have more gay characters. I fact that is my number one want.

Then again, I seek them out. I live every day as a white dude, seen a billion in video games for the last 20 years. Had enough straight white dudes. Women, Racial Characters, Gay/Lesbian, they are different from me and there for much more interesting to watch, travel with and attempt to grow close to.

Hope we get equality going on from every angle.

 

[Dany]

We've seen progress. We're seeing more women too. We're getting there.

I guess I'm just more concerned with the game being fun and it having good graphics, art and performance. Racial, ethnic and sexual diversity and representation is secondary and means nothing if the game is shitty. That's just how I think. Make the game fun and make it look good then worry about the nitty gritty.

Sure. But progress happens by having these discussions

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

A good question to ask the people that would refuse to buy a game because of it.

If you know any on this board, I'll ask that person. Otherwise, like many others, I ask the OP - why does the sexual orientation of the character matter?

 

[Nocturno999]

So how do you apply this to AAA games?

Do you make the next CoD lead gay, and the entire game is him fighting for his rights to serve? Going into courtrooms, papers etc?

I just don't see how this could work in any way to be beneficial.

In a Call of Duty game doesn't matter since the series never touch relationship themes but what about an RPG or an action adventure title?

 

[Sai-kun]

If you know any on this board, I'll ask that person. Otherwise, like many others, I ask the OP - why does the sexual orientation of the character matter?

Keep reading the thread and you'll discover why

 

[Dany]

I guess I should elaborate, I mean the protagonist of the story, and big budget films, as in the >50 million budget crowd. I'm sure we'll get modest indie games and maybe smaller studio projects, but the OP is about AAA games.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=brokebackmountain.htm

Gross>Budget when it comes to ANY discussion of audience penetration. Which is what you're asking right?

 

[Man God]

Why are you making arbitrary rules? So now a gay character should be shoe horned into a action movie to make it more credible then a proper tale like Dallas Buyers Club or Broke Back Mountain?

This thread is about gay characters in AAA games, the equivalent of summer blockbuster movies. Besides a couple of choose your own way sorts of games in the genre, notably Bioware and Bethesda games, these sorts of games rarely contain this, that's all this is.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

I don't really care one way or another about a character's sexuality, a gay lead character is just as viable as a straight lead character.

I take issue when a developer would need to point it out "oh, look at this gay character! Aren't we progressive?" or some stereotype so they can ensure there's no doubt that this character is gay. If the character is well written, it won't even be an issue but video game writing can be so blunt that something as subtle as TLOU is a rarity.

Basically, if you want to make a character gay, don't try to make it like some sort of sole personality trait.

 

[TheWriter]

If you know any on this board, I'll ask that person. Otherwise, like many others, I ask the OP - why does the sexual orientation of the character matter?

The thing is, two people admitted that in this very thread, but you cannot ask them anymore because they are banned. So yes, sexual orientation does matter to people, if you want it or not.

 

[Delusibeta]

Eh, forgive my poor wording. No company HAS to. But they ARE simply refusing for the most part, i'm sorry. And nothing's really changing, to be honest. Could they REALLY not afford to take the risk of making a main character gay, or the like?

In the AAA market? Hell no. We're talking about an industry where one bomb can (and has) sink studios. Hence, they tend to stick to perceived safe options, which in this case is white, straight, male protagonists.

 

[Crowbear]

If you know any on this board, I'll ask that person. Otherwise, like many others, I ask the OP - why does the sexual orientation of the character matter?

Representation in media matters to minorities. It helps foster acceptance in the real world.

If the two sides of this are "the sexual orientation of the characters doesn't matter to me" and "having more LGBT characters matters to me" why on earth would the first side be against more diversity?

 

[Beth Cyra]

If you know any on this board, I'll ask that person. Otherwise, like many others, I ask the OP - why does the sexual orientation of the character matter?

You're avatar is of a character that has a love triangle. A Love Triangle that is incredibly popular and one of the things that people love about the game.

Why wouldn't a gay Man/Woman enjoy the same type of story with characters who share similar tastes and desires as them? So long as Romance is a thing in games, then I think it should matter for everyone to feel involved.

 

[BlitzBlake]

Poison from Street Fighter actually has a personality outside of being a Transgender person, is the thing.

Or you could say that her being transgender was tacked on for localisation reasons... But yeah, any other representation for trans people? I'm curious.

 

[-PXG-]

You say you want quality, what's more quality than a diverse cast of well written characters?

Gotta love this. People want better games with better stories but balk at the idea of minorities and women not written/portrayed like shit or utterly ignored.

lol.




Who's being forced here? No one. This "threat of force" is another strawman in a long line of them to pretend like the people advocating for change are bullies. I'm sick of this horseshit.

Making a character female, gay, black or whatever doesn't make them good. Diversity for the sake of it doesn't just magically make the game better or enhances the story. Good design and good writing does that.

I'm purely speaking for myself here. As a straight, black male, I couldn't really care less about who or what I play as. Man? Cool. Woman? Cool. Trans? Cool. Gay, straight, bi or asexual? Doesnt matter. White, black, brown, red, green purple...fucking rainbow? I don't give a shit. Just make a good game and have the story make some sense within it's universe and I'll be happy.

 

[SirShandy]

Dallas Buyers Club

McConaughey's character is not actually gay in the film. He becomes HIV positive from drug use. Though a large component of the film is his coming to terms with being associated with the homosexual stigma of HIV.

 

[……forgetit]

Why are you making arbitrary rules? So now a gay character should be shoe horned into a action movie to make it more credible then a proper tale like Dallas Buyers Club or Broke Back Mountain?

Not making arbitrary rules, when I think AAA games I see them as comparable to blockbuster movies, I'd love to have a gay main character in an action movie, but I don't see it happening due to Hollywood perceiving that audiences wouldn't relate to them.

 

[Yado]

If you know any on this board, I'll ask that person. Otherwise, like many others, I ask the OP - why does the sexual orientation of the character matter?

Sexual orientation, gender, race etc matter. Especially when there's any kind of narrative or story involved. Would you really be satisfied with every book/film/game featuring the same character in the same setting every time?

 

[RM8]

Or you could say that her being transgender was tacked on for localisation reasons... But yeah, any other representation for trans people? I'm curious.

Vivian from Paper Mario TTYD.

 

[QisTopTier]

Since it got brought up in here and the term nags at me but I'd love to have it clarified as it sounds like buzzwords to me. The word being "Reverse" , which I view in my head as BACKWARDS OR OPPOSITE

"reverse homophobia and reverse racism"

Wouldn't reverse homophobia just be hetrophobia. If you are meaning in the sense that people dislike straight people and want less of them, say for instance if you wanted to go to a gay bar to hang with your friends for whatever reason and you were straight and bouncer at the door says "sorry buddy not letting you in you look too straight".

If you mean it in the sense that people want equal rights and stuff well that's not reverse anything that's just the removal of it towards equal rights. Neutral.

And as for Reverse Racism? How the hell does that one even work? Same example above, but this time your a white dude with 3 black friends and the bar has a ton of white people in it already. The bouncer stops you and says sorry too many white people already the other 3 can go. That's what I typically see as an example of what reverse racism is.... that's not reverse racism that's just fucking racism.

:l I guess this is pretty off topic though

 

[Man God]

McConaughey's character is not actually gay in the film. He becomes HIV positive from drug use. Though a large component of the film is his coming to terms with being associated with the homosexual stigma of HIV.

Also guess what, DBC had an even smaller budget than Brokeback did. 5 million. It's the equivalent of a fairly large Kickstarter game.

 

[Eusis]

Making a character female, gay, black or whatever doesn't make them good. Diversity for the sake of it doesn't just magically make the game better or enhances the story. Good design and good writing does that.

It is, however, a start. Even if they screw it up the first time they can learn what went wrong and try better next time, and so forth. Granted you screw up badly enough and you WON'T get that other chance (Samus and Other M) but maybe others can look there and go "no, we don't want to do it that way."

 

[Blood Diamonds]

WHERE?

Oh, I'm sorry.. I meant to say "reverse homophobia"
Assuming that "reverse homophobia" is a thing and that it's different from heterophobia, I would like to know how you came to these conclusions.

Or just avoid any explanation of what you're saying and just link me to another wikipedia entry and tell me to back off.

 

[witchedwiz]

That game has so many problem that some main characters swinging the other way was the last of its problem

 

[ViciousDS]

To be honest if I was forced to play a homosexual I probably wouldn't buy the game as it doesn't appeal to me and kind of irks my senses.I have buddies who are gay and it doesn't bother me however being forced to be one would truly be a deal breaker for me.

With that said if they gave the option of playing a hetero or homo it wouldn't be phased by it one bit, as you are given the freedom to choose your own path as it should be. Kind of like the romance options in Mass Effect.........never went that route but it was nice knowing that players of other interests could do as they please and not affect me in a single way.

Of course this idea swings both ways as I am sure these uber buff hetero guys that only attract the opposite sex being forced upon them probably makes them feel the same way as I do being forced to play as a homo.

 

[……forgetit]

Wh=Dany M;111438208]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=brokebackmountain.htm

Gross>Budget when it comes to ANY discussion of audience penetration. Which is what you're asking right?

I'm only talking about budget here. Gross matters more, but the OP was about AAA games which relates to budget.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

To be honest if I was forced to play a homosexual I probably wouldn't buy the game as it doesn't appeal to me and kind of irks my senses.

I have to ask, do you play games as characters of the oppsite sex?

 

[davepoobond]

Well stated. There are much more subtle ways that heterosexuality is expressed in video games than just "well you never see them have sex with a woman so..."

So a gay person can never exhibit any heterosexual attributes?


Also, I don't know how much more of an appeal having a gay space marine is vs having a straight one. The point of products such as games is that you are trying to sell a product to people who will buy it.

Also, Is woman space marine going to sell more copies or is gay space marine going to sell more copies? Under representation is an issue, sure, not saying it isn't, but you don't do anyone any favors by making a game no one wants to buy.

 

[ViciousDS]

I have to ask, do you play games as characters of the oppsite sex?

no, it's awkward to roleplay as a woman............just weird.

 

[SargerusBR]

ME3 Male Shepard could be gay, so it's a start i guess?

 

[Dany]

To be honest if I was forced to play a homosexual I probably wouldn't buy the game as it doesn't appeal to me and kind of irks my senses.I have buddies who are gay and it doesn't bother me however being forced to be one would truly be a deal breaker for me.

 

[Eusis]

That game has so many problem that some main characters swinging the other way was the last of its problem

And full on camp gay probably isn't the solution to characterization problems either.

 

[RM8]

Of course this idea swings both ways as I am sure these uber buff hetero guys that only attract the opposite sex being forced upon them probably makes them feel the same way as I do being forced to play as a homo.

It doesn't at least to me. I don't mind playing as whatever interesting character. See that guy in my avatar? That's my most anticipated game this year and the protagonist is a straight... frog

 

[ViciousDS]

It doesn't at least to me. I don't mind playing as whatever interesting character. See that guy in my avatar? That's my most anticipated game this year and the protagonist is a straight... frog

hahahaha, uh damn you...........guess your right.....we've all played as lizards, and other animals.

 

[Dany]

no, it's awkward to roleplay as a woman............just weird.

How? Its a woman.

 

[kitchenmotors]

To be honest if I was forced to play a homosexual I probably wouldn't buy the game as it doesn't appeal to me and kind of irks my senses.I have buddies who are gay and it doesn't bother me however being forced to be one would truly be a deal breaker for me.

With that said if they gave the option of playing a hetero or homo it wouldn't be phased by it one bit, as you are given the freedom to choose your own path as it should be. Kind of like the romance options in Mass Effect.........never went that route but it was nice knowing that players of other interests could do as they please and not affect me in a single way.

Of course this idea swings both ways as I am sure these uber buff hetero guys that only attract the opposite sex being forced upon them probably makes them feel the same way as I do being forced to play as a homo.

Not to call you out, but I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "I have a gay friend, but..." in a conversation. It just irks me.

 

[Village]

what is this game, i want to play it.

The writing looks terrible.

 

[TheWriter]

It doesn't at least to me. I don't mind playing as whatever interesting character. See that guy in my avatar? That's my most anticipated game this year and the protagonist is a straight... frog

How do you know he is straight? (serious question, I know nothing about this game)

 

[Prototype]

I'd happily have more gay characters. I fact that is my number one want.

Then again, I seek them out. I live every day as a white dude, seen a billion in video games for the last 20 years. Had enough straight white dudes. Women, Racial Characters, Gay/Lesbian, they are different from me and there for much more interesting to watch, travel with and attempt to grow close to.

Hope we get equality going on from every angle.

what does this even mean?

"Equality"? in proportion to what? The population at large? The statistical portion of gays to straights in a given society? In a sense there already is equality. Gay community is a minority, thus a minority of games will predominantly feature gay characters. Isn't this already a form of "equality"?

Or, by the way you worded your statement, it seems you want there to be "equal" choices, that is, as many games featuring gays/women/ect as there are other types of games. But this isn't "equality" in the sense that it's supposed to be used here. This is just an "equal amount of games of all types" and that isn't Equality. That would only serve to tip the scales in another direction and we'd have more and more games that majority of consumers wouldn't buy because it doesn't relate to them, thus leading to an the same issue in reverse.

Don't confuse the meaning of Equality with the mathematical term Equal. They are different and have different implications.