Why are there still so many white men in video games
- Thread starter Kater
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Wow, okay...
Calm down.
And it's not 'political correctness bullshit' but rather I am asking why there isn't all too many alternative character to the typical white male in games.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Who said they are all straight?
See a lot of bans going on in this thread....anyways.
Woman are definitely rare but try a lead with a different race. I rarely if ever see any black male or Hispanic protagonist. I think the industry should start reflecting the diversity that this country and the world has. People saying it's only white males who play games are full of shit.
But I do agree that some publishers feel the white male is what will sale the most so they usually have them as a lead. Some people will argue that's the way it is but I don't think so.
Woman are definitely rare but try a lead with a different race. I rarely if ever see any black male or Hispanic protagonist. I think the industry should start reflecting the diversity that this country and the world has. People saying it's only white males who play games are full of shit.
But I do agree that some publishers feel the white male is what will sale the most so they usually have them as a lead. Some people will argue that's the way it is but I don't think so.
Orthogonal
Member
Are we talking games announced/showcased at E3 this year with playable female characters?
Dragon Age: Inquisition
Bloodborne
MKX
Smash Bros U
Diablo 3
Battlecry
Alien: Isolation
Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel
The Division (Not certain, but female characters shown in trailer)
Lara Croft and the Temple of Osiris
Just Dance
Chariot
DemurOnion
Banned
God all this race shit. SO SICK OF IT.
Seriously, should we just eliminate all white people from videogames. You all happy then?
Seriously, should we just eliminate all white people from videogames. You all happy then?
I kind of automatically typed that. Corrected it already to 'white male'.
I should go to bed.
Maybe I play different games but in the AAA market its pretty easy to see why they go that route. ITS WHERE THE MONEY IS AT. Now let me list off all the games of late that I have played that female options, Blade Symphony(PURE FTW), Titanfall, Blazblue Chrono Phantasma, MK8, League of Legends, Tomb Raider, Transistor(Red = so good gif), and Sanctum 2.
If you keep looking at AAA to not do traditional things well your in the wrong place.... go to the indies or where the real good stuff is done.
groovygamer
Banned
Where are all of the left handed, lesbian, midget, albino, eskimos in games?
That's what I want to know.
That's what I want to know.
The most this is taking away from you is a few thread spaces at the first page of GAF. I'd really suggest you give the thread a read though to at least understand why someone would be adamant about having their own identity represented in gaming. Going to some extreme that nobody in this thread is advocating just makes you look childish.
Edit: Welp
Boxcar Overkill
Banned
Or even some multi-racial characters would be refreshing.
The arguments for greater gender diversity are different than the arguments for more racial diversity, and I think the arguments for more racial diversity are quite a bit stronger.
Although this may only be true in North America. I have no idea how where the minds in Warsaw are at.
toastyToast
Member
could not agree more
To be fair I think an attempt was made to have atypical protagonists for GTA V. They didn't stray far though
ramuh
Member
Simple. What's the percentage of White Males that play video games? I bet it's probably high.
And before anyone says that well they need to add other races/gender, when people play video games they mostly (IMO) associate with people that generally look like themselves. Unless it's a cartoonish style of game. It's the surest way to profit for these Video Game Companies that are mostly owned by shareholders.
To me I don't care who/what I play as. The actual game needs to be fun for me to play.
People do realize how horrible the notion that white males will outright refuse to play a game that does not star them is, right? Further, people realize how awful the idea that nothing should be done to change this is, yes? Lastly, surely people know that saying it's okay to take a "fuck 'em" attitude to women, different racial and ethnic groups, and LGBT people who want more representation in a medium they enjoy because we should be bending over to intolerant jackasses is just plain sick, right?
Like, people have to realize that. They just have to...
Like, people have to realize that. They just have to...
Simply put, more people of color need to be making video games, or in a position where they heavily influence character development. Within a lot of these studios (which are mostly dominated by white males), I think it's just second nature for them to make their characters white, regardless if the character is male or female .
Fornaximus
Member
As somebody who almost always plays female when given the option, suffering from chronic male-white-main fatigue, I don't like how this topic is often framed as some sort of patriarchal oppression. It's comfort zone laziness, if anything. Or in the case of the latest Assassin's Creed nontroversy, the game is almost done. That IP in particular, I'm kinda surprised (not really) at the way people are jumping on it, considering they've gone with a black female lead in the past. What have you done for me lately, eh?
For the sake of variety, I'd love to see more females in main roles. Playing a new MGS as The Boss has always been on the top of my gaming wishlist.
For the sake of variety, I'd love to see more females in main roles. Playing a new MGS as The Boss has always been on the top of my gaming wishlist.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I get the feeling you're being sarcastic.
But there really is racism and sexism everywhere in culture.
I feel like racist sometimes has too much to it as an accusation.
Well, not in all cases. Where someone is very overtly racist and bigoted and hateful, it's a good word to call people like that. But there are different kinds and different levels of racism.
You don't have to be overtly racist and hateful to help racist parts of society. A lot of the racist things that people do, or racist parts of society, people don't even notice.
captainpat
Member
How do you explain the meatheads then?
ramuh
Member
People do realize how horrible the notion that white males will outright refuse to play a game that does not star them is, right? Further, people realize how awful the idea that nothing should be done to change this is, yes? Lastly, surely people know that saying it's okay to take a "fuck 'em" attitude to women, different racial and ethnic groups, and LGBT people who want more representation in a medium they enjoy because we should be bending over to intolerant jackasses is just plain sick, right?
Like, people have to realize that. They just have to...
Hmm. I wouldn't put the blame on the actual people playing the video games. They don't make them. Companies with profit margins/forecast do. I don't think people take a "fuck 'em" attitude towards the other gender/other races. Diversity is good in video games. If you have to blame someone, don't blame the players, blame the Companies. Just because a player wants to play someone who generally looks like themselves isn't a bigot. Although they are those out there. Just not all.
I totally agree. While the primary victims of the homogeneity of game protagonists are women and people of color, that game companies assume white men have no interest in playing anyone who doesn't look exactly like them is pretty dismissive of them as well. One of the things that naysayers miss is that a gaming industry with more diverse characters will offer more varied and better experiences for all gamers.
Kenshin001
Member
This pretty much sums it up. The audience and the creators are overwhelmingly straight white males. Diversity is great but if there's going to be substantial change the critics should put their money where their mouth is, bankroll their own companies or seek investment and develop their own games with their themes and protagonist of choice.
I feel Anita Sarkeesian would have achieved a whole lot more by using the Kickstarter money to fund her own female led company, making the games she feels should be made and leading by example.
Like i said before this is a cop out. You're effectively placing the burden on people the people receiving the short end of the stick and removing the that responsibility from those who are in position to actually make the change. You're also implying that it's somehow impossible for white men to create female and PoC characters. You're basically giving everyone who shares this criticism a nice "fuck you" when you say they should step up to the plate and make their own games.
Basically how I feel, but that is not to say there are not studios making diverse characters or giving players the option to choose.
I agree, I mean woman are in games although clearly not as much. But multi cultural races are definitely almost never at the table. Being black my self it doesn't bother me that much, but it sure would be nice to see the diversity get passed along. Even when it is a woman in games it's usually a white woman but then again let's not derail the thread....
I find what's more interesting is people's flagrant disregard for woman or other races when they get mentioned. People aren't asking for affirmative action for games with minorities...they just want options and what's wrong with that?
What?
toastyToast
Member
People do realize how horrible the notion that white males will outright refuse to play a game that does not star them is, right? Further, people realize how awful the idea that nothing should be done to change this is, yes? Lastly, surely people know that saying it's okay to take a "fuck 'em" attitude to women, different racial and ethnic groups, and LGBT people who want more representation in a medium they enjoy because we should be bending over to intolerant jackasses is just plain sick, right?
Like, people have to realize that. They just have to...
You realize what planet this is, right?
Nothing! In fact such options are more fun for everyone. I love playing characters that are different races, sex and cultures than myself.
I think what rubs some people the wrong way is the inference that some insidious purposeful racism/sexism/culturism/whateverism is going on. That's all.
C'mon, it's not that hard. I'm giving another version of the same sort of question. It's always interesting to consider things in another context.
I think the answer is because the majority of rappers are black, and this also reflects the case of games, since most game developers are white males.
Not exactly the same thing, since rappers don't write other characters into their music, but that is the point I believe he is trying to make
othersteve
Member
Guys. Again. I am not going to quote my post, but the point here is demographics. It's the safe way of producing a game and selling to the largest market. Nothing less, nothing more.
This really is not rocket science.
Sure, it sucks that some groups are larger than others. The same applies to Wal*Mart's low prices due to the buying power (and the affiliated hatred that comes along with it and some of their crappy HR) and, hell, even the big game journalism outlets getting all the best stories. Of course it would be nice to see more games featuring other groups (races, genders, whatever), but the point is, until it becomes more profitable or safer for the publisher/developer to do so, it ain't going to happen.
Case in point: someone earlier suggested that those who are bothered by this go and make a game of their own. Do it, seriously. Along the way, you might just encounter the very same economic and financial pressures that lead these big developers to make the calculated demographic targeting decisions that they do.
This really is not rocket science.
Sure, it sucks that some groups are larger than others. The same applies to Wal*Mart's low prices due to the buying power (and the affiliated hatred that comes along with it and some of their crappy HR) and, hell, even the big game journalism outlets getting all the best stories. Of course it would be nice to see more games featuring other groups (races, genders, whatever), but the point is, until it becomes more profitable or safer for the publisher/developer to do so, it ain't going to happen.
Case in point: someone earlier suggested that those who are bothered by this go and make a game of their own. Do it, seriously. Along the way, you might just encounter the very same economic and financial pressures that lead these big developers to make the calculated demographic targeting decisions that they do.
TwistedFate
Member
I think out of anyone else in this thread, you seem to get it the best. I could not have said it any better.
Chances are, there are accurate representations of all the examples you listed, and while in some of those cases that is something quite unfortunate, Its silly to look at a bunch of games and sort of make them out to be the 'problem'.
I think creators should be able to create what ever they like, and any stink should be made only in situations that warrant them i.e. Ubisoft's poor reasoning for not using female protagonists in their games. Otherwise, its unfair to point the finger at any game with a white male protagonist without having any real reasoning and simply claiming that 'there should be more female protagonists in games'.
ramuh
Member
Spot on. I wouldn't really say it's a flagrant disregard but maybe the ignorance of youth among other things. The multi-racial/women who do appear in video games usually take the form of a stereotypical character.
I think we can all agree that a Company (especially a small one) has to weigh risk vs. reward. But I would like to see more options in general for playing character/s. Maybe playing these characters (maybe not the main character but substantial ones) would help educate. But again it does come down to the decision of shareholders/companies to invest in Games they believe will make them the most money. Profit drives this industry like many others.
Boxcar Overkill
Banned
Some of the problem comes from how some people are talking about the issue. People are usually careful when they talk about race and gender issues to avoid offending others.
That same rule should apply even when one is talking about white people and men.
If you wouldn't say, "Why are there so many Jews in banking?", then you might rethink starting a thread with "Why are there so many white men in video games?" One can predict a non-productive dialogue after the opening salvo.
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That same rule should apply even when one is talking about white people and men.
If you wouldn't say, "Why are there so many Jews in banking?", then you might rethink starting a thread with "Why are there so many white men in video games?" One can predict a non-productive dialogue after the opening salvo.
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……forgetit
Member
What? I had no idea rappers were digital constructs created by the imagination of individuals. The issue here is that game protagonist are all white males when the fanbase of video games doesn't reflect that. It's the same issue with action movies, people are afraid a non-white male protagonist will hurt their bottom line.
True ...but the majority of people who buy rap music are white.,.but that's a totally different topic.
Tesseract
Banned
it's nobody's responsibility to reflect reality fairly in disposable entertainment.
othersteve
Member
No, it just reflects the viewing base less accurately. Decisions like these are made based on plenty of research rooted in psychology and culture.
As usual plenty of people seem to be making this way more difficult for themselves to understand than they need to. You don't have to be smart to understand why this is the way it is folks. It isn't going to change until the demographics change, plain and simple.
I'm not blaming the consumers so much as pointing out how terrible some of the defenses are. The notion that white males will not play a game that does not star them is an awful notion. Firstly, I think it's untrue for a good many of them and casts very bigoted traits onto a lot of good people who fit that demographic. Second, even if it were true, why the hell should we be defending that mindset, saying it's okay for the industry to stay the lazy course because doing differently might upset a few privileged white dudes?
I read these threads and I see people brushing aside the criticisms of minorities, women, and LGBT because somehow, wanting more diversity in games is not a noble cause. People may not come right out and "fuck 'em," but that's certainly the vibe I get. I just hope that as people say these things, they realize how horrible some of it is.
I try to be an optimist. lol
othersteve
Member
It has nothing to do with whether they'd play the game, but rather merely the fact that people identify better with people who are similar to themselves.
See: Similar to Me bias
I have said it a thousand times but this is not a difficult concept. The only reason people here are making it difficult is that it happens to be about race.
Science, folks. Want to change it? Option A: Change the demographics; Option B: Rewire the DNA that has evolved within humans to naturally favor those who are most similar to themselves.
It never ceases to amaze me how bringing up the representation of women, who make up approximately half the population of the planet, is met with jokes as if it were a completely unreasonable topic.
Messofanego
Banned
The Longest Journey has a great lesbian couple as your landlords.
Alaska Native/Inuit:
Never Alone | Polygon article
Freedom ain't free, as the saying goes. There isn't the same structural support for non-white, non-straight, non-male developers (let alone content), "indie" or not. It takes a concerted effort on the part of gamers, journalists, and developers to persuade the folks who make the big money decisions (i.e. publishers). It's awesome to see these conversations and coverage begin to gain traction, but there's much change that needs to happen before "freedom" can be won (freedom is never simply given away BTW).
The indie scene is helping, since it circumvents the slow-moving ships that are the big publishers, but there's still a ton of work to be done. And with the big publishers quickly stepping into the formerly "indie" space of small games development, even that small door may begin to close soon...
It's not an unreasonable topic. It's an unreasonable argument. It is not the artists/designers fault that they chose to make X. Another point is that this is art--
No one is force feeding you this. If you don't like a book, game tv show, etc, go try another one.
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