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[Deleted member 47027]

Holy jeezus.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/22/5926193/women-gaming-harassment

I hope you're ready to read this. Brianna Wu contributes three myth/reality stories and more. Here's what kicks off the story - brace yourself.

"Women are the niggers of gender," the email said. "If you killed yourself, I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse."

I blinked at my phone, fighting simultaneous urges to hurl my phone across the room in anger and cry. Later that day, someone texted me my address — telling me they’d "See me when I least expected it."

I can't even imagine trying to endure this.

The Myth: Everyone in the games industry experiences harassment. Women are just too sensitive about it.

The Reality: If you are a woman in the industry with a critical opinion, you will get a disproportional amount of criticism, hostility, and scrutiny compared to men.

The Myth: Women in the games industry get special treatment for being women, and your life can be made easier by your looks

The Reality: Many men believe women have no worth in the games industry beyond appearance. This means that an incredible amount of conversation focuses on sexual attractiveness, or appearance in general.

The Myth: Women should just laugh off online harassment and not take it personally.

The Reality: This kind of harassment leaves long-lasting damage. It affects our friendships, and can cause us to be distant from others.

I highly recommend reading the article and there's a LOT of reading to do between just the myth/reality parts. There's also conclusions to each, and there's a lot to talk about.

Something that stood out to me in Case Study 1 was this:

"A male friend of mine that develops AAA games told me, "When a woman criticizes me, it goes to a different part of my brain than when a man on my team does. I get defensive really quickly. I’m trying to get better about it." I don’t think his is a unique experience."

To the males: Are you trying to get better about it? Have you felt that way?

 

[Delusibeta]

This is a wider societal issue than something that's just in the video game industry. You'll probably have a better thread had you posted it in Off Topic.

 

[Silky]

"Women are the niggers of gender," the email said. "If you killed yourself, I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse."

This infuriates me. Even more so that this could be applied to work environments everywhere, not just the gaming industry. This shit needs to stop.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

This is a wider societal issue than something that's just in the video game industry.

That's true but let's discuss it in this bubble.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I think most men (or cishet men) define themselves by what women think of them. Whether it's "women" in general or the opinion of a significant other. Men measure themselves by their ability to attract women, so criticism from women always lands hard on me. Criticism from men feels competitive. Criticism from women feels like they're right.

It only took one woman to tell me I was being sexist once. I took it so personally that it's never been a problem again. At least not that I am aware or have ever been told.

Edit:

In the gaming bubble, it's something I've become acutely aware of. I am very quick to call out other people being sexist and always fund and seek out content that positively portrays a playable female. In Pokémon X/Y I played as the dark-skinned Serena just for the opportunity to play a dark female. It had zero bearing on my game, but I really enjoyed doing it because I felt like I was participating in increasing representation of race and gender.

 

[McDougles]

This is a wider societal issue than something that's just in the video game industry. You'll probably have a better thread had you posted it in Off Topic.

...but it's a piece talking about women in the gaming industry.

 

[Palette Swap]

The Reality: Many men believe women have no worth in the games industry beyond appearance. This means that an incredible amount of conversation focuses on sexual attractiveness, or appearance in general.

Let's pretend we haven't seen it here.

 

[drexplora]

I would love to have an honest Videogame conversation with a Professional female in the industry!
It's rare coming across a female with a true passion for Videogames.
At least where I am from.

 

[The_Almighty_Swan]

This is a wider societal issue than something that's just in the video game industry. You'll probably have a better thread had you posted it in Off Topic.

Yes true but it's also visibly a larger issue within the gaming industry that needs to be addressed sooner rather then later. Nothing good can come out of leaving this on the back burner.

 

[jay]

That's true but let's discuss it in this bubble.

There are even bigger issues with bigger scopes, so why discuss it at all?

 

[Paracelsus]

Let's pretend we haven't seen it here.

This place knows who Corinne Yu is. Go ask ten people outside here who Corinne Yu is, then ask who Felicia Day is, you're free to bring back results whenever you see fit.

 

[SerTapTap]

I think most men (or cishet men) define themselves by what women think of them. Whether it's "women" in general or the opinion of a significant other. Men measure themselves by their ability to attract women, so criticism from women always lands hard on me. Criticism from men feels competitive. Criticism from women feels like they're right.

It only took one woman to tell me I was being sexist once. I took it so personally that it's never been a problem again. At least not that I am aware or have ever been told.

Something I don't see discussed often is how this sexism cuts both ways like this. Men being defined by attracting/dominating women is shit for us too. Yes I know it hurts us "less", but I think it would help some people be empathetic to the cause if this were discussed more. Better to do good for a selfish reason than not at all.

 

[Htown]

Damn that shit is rough. I can't imagine how it feels having to deal with that bullshit on a daily basis.

I feel like this stuff gets dismissed because it's on the internet.

 

[besada]

There are even bigger issues with bigger scopes, so why discuss it at all?

Because it's an issue in video games, Vince has posted an article, and this is a discussion board.

 

[Stinkles]

This place knows who Corinne Yu is. Go ask ten people outside here who Corinne Yu is, then ask who Felicia Day is, you're free to bring back results whenever you see fit.

With are you arguing with?

He was pointing out that we have misogynists right here on this forum. Which we most certainly do. there will be some in this very thread. I guarantee it.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

I always say this in these types of threads but the saddest irony about nerd subculture is that a significant number of fans are from social groups that have historically been bullied and marginal ized and yet the first thing they do when they have some power? Bully and marginalize.

 

[jay]

Because it's an issue in video games, Vince has posted an article, and this is a discussion board.

Sorry, that was sarcasm.

As an aside, people should notice where this was published. Plenty of their reviews and even staff members may be crappy, but they do post good features and articles.

 

[besada]

Sorry, that was sarcasm.

Gotcha. Hard to tell sometimes.

 

[Orayn]

I always say this in these types of threads but the saddest irony about nerd subculture is that a significant number of fans are from social groups that have historically been bullied and marginal ized and yet the first thing they do when they have some power? Bully and marginalize.

What's even sadder is when people think that kind of behavior is justified. There's even an awful Reddit-type comic that gets posted to defend it.

 

[BruiserBear]

Wouldn't the HR department of any reasonable company immediately take action if messages like this are sent to other employees?

 

[Deified Data]

I grew up playing SNES with my female cousins and nowadays my partner is really the only fellow gamer I interact with in person, so getting used to the notion of women playing games or by extension making games has never been terribly difficult. I can't imagine how small and petty you have to be to devote time out of your day to harassing someone. What do these guys think is on the line that it warrants such careful scrutiny?

 

[Silky]

Wouldn't the HR department of any reasonable company immediately take action if messages like this are sent to other employees?

HR can't take any sort of action if the harassed can't tell them who's doing what. Mostly out of fear of what would happen /if/ s/he did it. It's hard to speak up.

 

[BruiserBear]

HR can't take any sort of action if the harassed can't tell them anything.

and why can't they tell HR anything?

 

[Kinyou]

I’ve personally never heard of a man in the games industry getting rape threats for having an opinion.

It does happen
Just have to take a look at the twitter accounts of the call of duty community managers

But it's still pretty obvious that women receive more harassment.

 

[toastyToast]

Woah! That first quote is some next level shit

Spoiler

sexism, racism and maybe necrophilia

edit: well shit, it wasn't even original

 

[EulaCapra]

A male friend of mine that develops AAA games told me, "When a woman criticizes me, it goes to a different part of my brain than when a man on my team does. I get defensive really quickly. I’m trying to get better about it." I don’t think his is a unique experience.

We live in a society that’s sexist in ways it doesn’t understand. One of the consequences is that men are extremely sensitive to being criticized by women. I think it threatens them in a very primal way, and male privilege makes them feel free to lash out.

This is why women are socialized to carefully dance around these issues, disagreeing with men in an extremely gentle manner. Not because women are nicer creatures than men. But because our very survival can depend on it.

I hope most of GAF here just doesn't skim through the article. I only quoted the above because it's something to think about next time, and it's disheartening to see GAF threads relating to real-life video game issues written by women criticizing the video game industry spiral horribly, horribly, out of control thanks to a few dicks and a couple of a-holes.

 

[entremet]

What's the origins of these misogynist trolls?

I always tried to my female friends and family members into gaming--some successful some not. I never understood this boy's club mentality honestly.

I do have beef with the AAA communities obsession with male power fantasies as it doesn't grow the medium, but there are shining lights out there as well.

 

[Orayn]

Wouldn't the HR department of any reasonable company immediately take action if messages like this are sent to other employees?

One would hope, but this overestimates how reasonable companies are and underestimates the influence wielded by people like Jeremy Stieglitz.

It's also possible that a lot of small to medium-sized independent studios don't have a full-fledged HR department at all.

 

[Schobeleth]

Wouldn't the HR department of any reasonable company immediately take action if messages like this are sent to other employees?

I think the issue with Brianna is that she's an indie right? No PR squadrons to sick on people attacking her.

 

[Silky]

I grew up playing SNES with my female cousins and nowadays my partner is really the only fellow gamer I interact with in person, so getting used to the notion of women playing games or by extension making games has never been terribly difficult. I can't imagine how small and petty you have to be to devote time out of your day to harassing someone. What do these guys think is on the line that it warrants such careful scrutiny?

Pride, probably.

It does happen
Just have to take a look at the twitter accounts of the call of duty community managers

But it's still pretty obvious that women receive more harassment.

It's really shitty on both fronts.

 

[Skilotonn]

The first line of the first quote already set me off.

Can't even think of a subtle, proper way to describe beings that would type, let alone think about that kind of nonsense, so I won't even bother to put them in words.

 

[Slayven]

Crazy shit like that needs to be forwarded to low enforcement asap. Let them know shit like that ain't play play.

 

[Het_Nkik]

Man, I'm getting sick or reading this kind of shit. Not because I think it's not happening, and DEFINITELY not because I think it doesn't need to be heard. I'm sick of reading it because I'm sick of it happening. JUST STOP BEING ASSHOLES PEOPLE, please, jeez.

"A male friend of mine that develops AAA games told me, "When a woman criticizes me, it goes to a different part of my brain than when a man on my team does. I get defensive really quickly. I’m trying to get better about it." I don’t think his is a unique experience."

To the males: Are you trying to get better about it? Have you felt that way?

Nah. I have low self-esteem so I just take all criticism as valid since I just figure I'm wrong about everything anyway.

 

[entremet]

Wouldn't the HR department of any reasonable company immediately take action if messages like this are sent to other employees?

HR has been downsized in many companies since 08. Smaller companies don't even have a HR. It's usually a COO or company lawyer and HR always works for the company, so there will bias inherently there.

It's a myth that HR has your back.

 

[Netherscourge]

Remove internet anonymity and show everyone who posts a comment or sends an Email's real name, address and phone #.

I guarantee that 90% of the horrible comments would end immediately.

The other 10% would be in jail or served subpoenas by the end of the week.

 

[Pixel Beak]

Everyone gets shit on the internet. It's not exclusive to any gender, race, or religion.

Polygon click bait. As usual.

 

[shandy706]

Crazy shit like that needs to be forwarded to low enforcement asap. Let them know shit like that ain't play play.

It's 100% a threat. I'd turn them in right away.

People are sick. I can't even imagine saying anything to anyone even remotely close to these things.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I think most men (or cishet men) define themselves by what women think of them. Whether it's "women" in general or the opinion of a significant other. Men measure themselves by their ability to attract women, so criticism from women always lands hard on me. Criticism from men feels competitive. Criticism from women feels like they're right.

It only took one woman to tell me I was being sexist once. I took it so personally that it's never been a problem again. At least not that I am aware or have ever been told.

Something I don't see discussed often is how this sexism cuts both ways like this. Men being defined by attracting/dominating women is shit for us too. Yes I know it hurts us "less", but I think it would help some people be empathetic to the cause if this were discussed more. Better to do good for a selfish reason than not at all.

Quoted myself too just for clearer context moving forward.

The truth is that, on a wider scale, there is really deeply institutionalized gender system all over the world. This is totally separate from "boys like blue, girls like pink!" as a societal construct. Consider this biology:

If the whole natural purpose of sex is procreation, women are significantly more valuable than men. One tribe of 100 women could create 100+ offspring with only 1 man. But a tribe of 100 men and 1 woman is doomed. They are dead in a generation. Basically, a population of men is not necessary to the survival or procreation of a species.

This puts men in a situation where they need to compete with each other for a woman's attention. They need to make themselves standout among a population of men that makes them individually inconsequential. This is why sexism exists in men: they need to diminish women in order to inflate their own importance. They need to build themselves up and mentally construct superiority because deep down there is the fact of the matter that they really don't serve a large biological purpose. As soon as a woman can perform the same job they can, or occupies a space they consider masculine, they no longer have anything to offer to the female.

This is why it's "women and children first," it's why men go to war, and it's why men are especially tender and vulnerable to female criticism.

Of course society and human existence beyond the sole purpose of procreation changes this. But really deep down, I think this is the root of hostile sexism, especially in a work environment. I say this both as a man and as somebody who has studied anthropology. Sure, sexism goes both ways. But it affects us less because men have established the system. We feel extra bad when a woman laughs at us, but usually men will return that anxiety doubly on another woman. Like the workplace or that psychopath who attacked a sorority earlier this year.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Absolutely disgraceful. I've seen a lot of sexism online and a whole heap of sexist remarks made in daily life by men that is just brushed off as "joking" and "banter" and they believe that people shouldn't get upset about it. It's such an awful, toxic mentality.

 

[Orayn]

Everyone gets shit on the internet. It's not exclusive to any gender, race, religion.

Polygon click bait. As usual.

I applaud you on your failure to read the quoted part of the article in the OP that specifically addresses this.

 

[Mesoian]

"Women are the niggers of gender," the email said. "If you killed yourself, I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse."

I blinked at my phone, fighting simultaneous urges to hurl my phone across the room in anger and cry. Later that day, someone texted me my address — telling me they’d "See me when I least expected it."

WHOA!!!! WHOAAAAAAAA!!!!

That's when you call the police. That's the guy you bring to court. That one right there.

Everyone gets shit on the internet. It's not exclusive to any gender, race, or religion.

Polygon click bait. As usual.

When was the last time someone texted you your home address and told you they'd be waiting for you?

 

[Htown]

Remove internet anonymity and show everyone who posts a comment's real name, address and phone #.

I guarantee that 90% of the horrible comments would end immediately.

The other 10% would be in jail or served subpoenas by the end of the week.

Nope.

Look at all the people saying vile things with their real name on Twitter.

There's also the problem of police not taking this kind of thing seriously.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Everyone gets shit on the internet. It's not exclusive to any gender, race, or religion.

Polygon click bait. As usual.

Are you seriously trying to say sexism, homophobia, racism etc. do not exist?

 

[Palette Swap]

This place knows who Corinne Yu is. Go ask ten people outside here who Corinne Yu is, then ask who Felicia Day is, you're free to bring back results whenever you see fit.

That doesn't disprove anything.
My point is that even in such a heavily moderated and relatively progressive community like this one, you'll run across assholes who feel the need to comment on a woman's physique when discussing professional issues. I don't think that's a very welcoming to women gamers.

Hell, it's tangential but that wankfest over Chloe Dykstra in that stupid XBO/PS4 thread was a fucking embarrassment and reeked of boys club.

So yeah, even if a selective community like this one behaves like that, it's not hard to imagine what the rest of the gaming world can look like.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

The thing people who are wondering why this is a thing forget is XX chromosomes invites an "in" for intimidation that wouldn't have been there for a man. No matter what they say, do, don't say, don't do: WOMAN.

It needs far more attention than it gets (why, I can only guess).

 

[Kreed]

and why can't they tell HR anything?

Most of the examples in the article are dealing with harassment coming from anonymous people on youtube channels/emails/etc... Even if they told HR there is only so much they can do with things like creepy fan fiction being sent to their personal email accounts.

 

[Netherscourge]

Nope.

Look at all the people saying vile things with their real name on Twitter.

There's also the problem of police not taking this kind of thing seriously.

I said names, street addresses and phone numbers.

 

[leadbelly]

To the males: Are you trying to get better about it? Have you felt that way?

That's one hell of a loaded question...

 

[frequency]

Everyone gets shit on the internet. It's not exclusive to any gender, race, or religion.

Polygon click bait. As usual.

You should read the article. Or at least the OP.

 

[sjay1994]

I thought we got better about this post Jade Raymond in 2006.... guess I was wrong.