I may be totally off base here, but I would honestly prefer the developer spend time optimizing for one target rather than two.
TLOU Remastered: 30 fps option gives better shadow quality [Up: Comparison GIF in OP]
- Thread starter nhlducks35
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I may be totally off base here, but I would honestly prefer the developer spend time optimizing for one target rather than two.
Fbh
Member
Yeah the problem with SOTC on Ps2 wasn't that "it didn't meet the target of 30fps" or that it wasn't steady 30fps.
The problem was that during battles the game just didn't go higher than 20fps, and even then it had frequent drops to 15-16
I don't see what that has to do with the 30 vs 60 fps argument
Sorry dude, but I laughed at this.
Pstt... see you on Steam. /salute
The framerate in SOTC was downright awful. Thank god for the PS3 version.
After this drama?
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Well I guess at least theres a reason to lock at 30 now. Not one great enough to entice me to do it, 60fps>all, but at least its not a "make my game shittier" button anymore.
Hiding in the shadows, I presume.
I don't really understand this comment. I'm a big fan of 60 FPS. What should I be feeling sorry about?
Windom Earle
Member
Nice, shit looks amazing as expected!
Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)
Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way!
Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.
Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!
That makes way too much sense for this thread. Thanks for clearing things up though.
FeenixRising
Banned
I'm just quoting this because I have a feeling it is going to become legend around here.
Just wow.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
So 60fps has better everything over the original games including shadows. Dropping it down to 30fps gives even better shadows because they can.
Sounds good to me.
Reading some of the comments though, yeesh.
Sounds good to me.
Reading some of the comments though, yeesh.
Spectrasonic
Member
I can only record 1080p at 30 FPS, so better shadows is a nice bonus.
bananafactory
Banned
Pretty much. I'll never understand it.
Raonak
Banned
lot of people, me included, adapt to framerates very quickly. Different people have different sensitivity levels to different things.
I can tell when a game is sub30, 30, 40+ or 60. And without a doubt, the higher the framerate, the better, but after playing for 5 minutes or so, I don't really notice the framerate unless it changes dramatically.
Even at 24fps, framerate wasn't really a problem for me in TLOU, the lack of AA was far more distracting to me. Generally, I'd take solid 30fps + great IQ over 60 and no AA/lower res.
I was thinking this over with Tekken Tag 2, which is 60fps, but has really horrible IQ with jaggies everywhere. The option to lock to 30 in exchage for some fucking AA would've been greatly appreciated by me.
WordsintheWater
Member
Yup, shit is ridiculous
They didn't really optimize for two targets here. They just boosted one effect because they could brute force it easily with a 30fps lock without having to worry about it ever dropping below that. Arne said they just decided to do this in the past week. All of the work before going gold and even some after was to hit the 60fps target with improvements.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
No, shut up! Join the baseless anger like this guy, who clearly didn't read anything on the matter!
The reaching some people are doing with their "logic" is impressive.
Why would someone give up 60fps for shadows of all things? If you were already planning to play in 30fps because you prefer 30fps that's cool, but playing in 30fps just to have better shadows is the silliest thing I've heard all day.
60fps all the way! I love that Naughty Dog is embracing 60fps. Hopefully Uncharted Trilogy is next.
60fps all the way! I love that Naughty Dog is embracing 60fps. Hopefully Uncharted Trilogy is next.
Just kidding. Nothing to be sorry about, it's just great that ND acknowledged the fact that not everyone prefer to have 60fps vs locked 30 fps + enhanced graphical effects and would ultimately give us the choice.
And now that the choice is given, choosing one option or the other might not be that easy. Maybe some die hard 60 fps fans will be "converted" to the visual candy side and vice versa.
At the end, all gamers win so props to ND for giving us options.
I'm very confident in Naughty Dog that the frame rate will be rock solid.
I'm sure its already been responded to but ... if they do everything they can do with it at 60fps ... then they cut it to 30fps they can do more. If they cut it to 15fps they could do even more.
It's not this magical why can't they do this at 60fps ... whenever you cut frame rate there is ALWAYS more you can do since you cut frame rate.
It's like asking for a $1.00 in change. I can tell you I want 2 quarters and then as many dimes as you can give me. The most dimes I can get are 5 ... but if I remove the 2 quarters requirement you can give me 10 ... what a concept.
Man, I can't ever imaging purposely NOT choosing 60 fps.
I would take 60 fps over 30 fps in every single game ever. Even turn based games just for the smoother animation. I've seen some turn based RPGs just chug on FPS when doing attacks and that totally takes me out of the experience. 30 fps is okay in those, but I greatly prefer how much smoother 60 fps looks.
And in a third person shooter, even a slow paced one? No contest at all. The difference in how the camera feels is huge to me.
Give me a crisp, clean, blur free native 1080p 1:1 pixel mapped resolution with a good AA solution for clean lines, 8-16x AF, and 60 fps and turn down *anything* else you have to to achieve that and I'll be at my happiest. That all trumps any kind of shadows or reflections and everything else. That should be the baseline for a game and they should add or turn up what they can while they optimize.
I would take 60 fps over 30 fps in every single game ever. Even turn based games just for the smoother animation. I've seen some turn based RPGs just chug on FPS when doing attacks and that totally takes me out of the experience. 30 fps is okay in those, but I greatly prefer how much smoother 60 fps looks.
And in a third person shooter, even a slow paced one? No contest at all. The difference in how the camera feels is huge to me.
Give me a crisp, clean, blur free native 1080p 1:1 pixel mapped resolution with a good AA solution for clean lines, 8-16x AF, and 60 fps and turn down *anything* else you have to to achieve that and I'll be at my happiest. That all trumps any kind of shadows or reflections and everything else. That should be the baseline for a game and they should add or turn up what they can while they optimize.
I really don't see myself switching because shadows are better. Maybe if I want to work with photo mode a bit. Rather have to game be more smooth like that gamersyde video, but everyone is entitled to their opinion!
In fact they are. Take any AAA @1080p 60FPS, play the game on 4K with the same system, you are @2FPS, take a screenshot, downsample it and voilà.
That's exactly what happen with editors screenshot so yes, basically, you are right, editors screenshot looking good cause bad FPS.
Tomb Raider was a 30fps game, though. The framerate just happened to be unlocked and averaged way closer to 60.
The Last of Us: Remastered is a 60fps game.
http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/tomb_...rate-gate_anything_beyond_30fps_is_gravy.html
HOW COULD YOU FORGET THE GRAVY ALREADY?!
Scoot McNairy
Member
I think it's fair to say that Naughty Dog are learning about what happens when you try to please all the people, all the time.
Neil Druckmann needs to understand that he can't let Neogaf influence his creative vision in such a substantial manner. Neogaf is the reason for this 30fps mode and Neogaf is the one that's turned it into a fiasco. This is a forum where some people spend 4 years discussing games which they ultimately never end up playing. Some men just can't be reasoned with, because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like 'choice'. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn without any framedrops.
Neil Druckmann needs to understand that he can't let Neogaf influence his creative vision in such a substantial manner. Neogaf is the reason for this 30fps mode and Neogaf is the one that's turned it into a fiasco. This is a forum where some people spend 4 years discussing games which they ultimately never end up playing. Some men just can't be reasoned with, because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like 'choice'. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn without any framedrops.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I don't think they just want to please us but surely they read. I think they're smarter about things than all of us here combined though so ND will always get the benefit of the doubt.
Indeed. I like Naughty Dog's approach of not wasting any resource as soon as it becomes available (when they enabled a 30fps option). True wizards at heart.
What does this have to do with any of this? Most of the people here are happy that ND is offering the choice and ND seems pretty eager to offer that choice as well. It's a win/win for everyone, no one is really upset here.
Even if this decision was really influenced by NeoGAF, that's okay. I'm sorry, but this doesn't hurt anyone's creative vision in any way. A good idea is a good idea, rather it came from inside ND, NeoGAF, or from a more casual player.
I forgot about how NeoGAF invented 60 FPS, but no one from Naughty Dog could even fathom the idea until GAF infiltrated the intelligence banks of ND itself, where Evilore and co. brainwashed Druckmann to destroy his original creative vision to enable this 60 FPS of yore.
C'mon dude. Give Naughty Dog some credit.
Scoot McNairy
Member
The gaming media wasn't calling out for a 30fps mode. Other developers weren't. Sony weren't. And the general public doesn't give a shit.
We did this. And now we're the ones who are faced with the gaming equivalent of Sophie's Choice.
Fess
Member
Tomb Raider Definitive Edition is on the right side of the spectra though and rarely drops below 50fps, I'm perfectly fine with an unlocked framerate in this case, TLOUR sounds like it's close to 60 fps too with the way ND is pushing for 60 fps. An unlocked framerate is really only a problem when it's hovering closer to 30 fps imo, as with pre-patch Killzone and Second Son, on PC you could often have games hovering around 100 fps and it still looks like something sent from heaven.
Glorified G
Member
SerTapTap
Member
They probably didn't optimize much at all, they probably just noticed they could crank up shadows without affecting 30FPS and decided to leave it in. That's probably why it's the ONE thing different.
This is the stupidest shit I've read all day. Just don't even post for a while
Neogaf influenced them for the better then. And how is the 30 fps thing a fiasco? Is this a bad joke?
BadAss2961
Member
Skimmed through the first few pages of this thread. Surprised to see most understand that this is just common sense and nothing to complain about.
Scoot McNairy
Member
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Look 3 posts above yours for just a couple highlights of unreasonable stupidity.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I don't share your extravagant interpretation of the events. We'll be fine.
abstract alien
Member
I just want to know if I'd even be able to tell the difference while actively playing the game. Not that it would matter, since I would play at 60fps even if the graphics dropped to the ps3 version's level. Just curious is all.
Fess
Member
I've just skimmed through the whole thread and omg I can't believe some of the things said in here. This is really the ultimate solution.
When games run at 30 fps people complain that they would rather have it running at 60fps even if that means graphical sacrifices.
When games run at 60 fps people complain that they would rather have it running at 30 fps with better graphics.
Now everybody should be happy.
When games run at 30 fps people complain that they would rather have it running at 60fps even if that means graphical sacrifices.
When games run at 60 fps people complain that they would rather have it running at 30 fps with better graphics.
Now everybody should be happy.
He can get the exact same quality of the supposed in-magazine screenshots by enabling the 30 FPS option, which is a guarantee (unless the game is downgraded by release). It's not exactly the same as a PC company releasing a bullshot of their game on ultra when the average consumer won't be able to run the game at those settings. ND is using the exact same hardware as we'll be playing on. They're not lying to you by displaying these theoretical higher fidelity 30 FPS screenshots as you can play it the same way. For those that don't care though, they just play the game at 60 FPS. Everyone wins.
It's not even a lot of options. You literally only have two options, and it's for the greater good (I know how cheesy that sounds but I don't really care). If you don't want to have to choose, then just leave it on default. The game will work just fine either way, it's not like tinkering with graphic settings on a PC.
He can lock the damn thing at 60 FPS and be done with it.
As stated, you really don't have to mess with any options if you don't want to. It works straight out of the box either way. No tinkering required.
This is kind of a different issue, as the fundamental issue this guy seems to have has nothing to do with the actual solution, rather with how ND handled this if this whole thing is even true. While I'm not a big fan of how ND handled this either, I really don't care. If you really decided not to buy the game because of this, then that's your deal.
"I don't like options so everyone else shouldn't have options either". I just can't understand this mindset. Both options are stable and tinkering isn't required. It's better than shipping with a locked 30 with shadows on and giving us no choice.