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[ron_bato]

I do not have time to go through 17 pages of madness, but has anyone else mentioned the fact that perhaps the 60 FPS option includes shadows that are very similar if not the same to the original vision and intent and 30 FPS does in fact look even better than they normally would?

Or is everyone assuming the 30 FPS shadows were the original way the shadows were always meant to be seen and 60 FPS detracts from them?

Sure, it can very well be the latter, but it also could be the former.

Here you go.

Let the record note that I spent all week in Europe saying exactly "shadow maps are 2x better over PS3"

I don't think anybody mentioned that in their articles.

Alright all... rewind a little. (also why does this always happen when I'm not on a PC but on my phone?)

Improved shadows in 30 are added as part of the patch. As we were finishing up the day 1 patch we were looking at the game and released at 30 we had extra cycles we could do some further, unplanned, graphics enhancements - and that turned out to me shadows. Naughty Dog being Naughty Dog - we couldn't let idle rendering cycles stay that way!

Shadows at 60 are absolutely improved over the PS3 version and the game just looks and runs best at 60. The improved shadows at 30 are a nice bonus - but seriously, not reason enough to play at 30 unless you already needed or planned to lock it... well, it does help a little when you are in Photo Mode, but you can enable that at last minute.

Stick to 60 unless you have to or really do prefer 30. that's why 60 is the default!

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It pretty much is. Which is fucking retarded.

I get the strength in your convictions but let's leave that language from a light hearted thread

Spoiler

about sticking TLoU up our

asses.

There is room for both really. This option is borderline unheard of but ND deserve way more credit than any kind of criticisms for this.

 

[DirtyLarry]

Here you go.

Awesome thanks for supplying that information, as I had a feeling it had to be something along those lines.
So really some of the freaking out I did see the first couple of pages was for naught.
Thanks again.

 

[Jinfash]

The feeling of 60fps (not rock solid btw) is a good one. The overall image of Last of us remastered is very good and its definitely one of the prettiest games so far.

But indeed graphics isn't everything, its the same beautiful game. I understand why people doesn't spend money for a "remastered" version. But we are on NeoGAF...

Are we talking minor dips or variable framerate? What about the frequency of it?

 

[cakely]

I kind of wish they hadn't done it this way.

I ... just wanted to turn on 60fps mode and know that I was missing absolutely nothing.

 

[VisceralBowl]

I kind of wish they hadn't done it this way.

I ... just wanted to turn on 60fps mode and know that I was missing absolutely nothing.

There are always compromises. You can always do better.

Be happy! You are getting TLoU that looks better than PS3 at 60FPS!

 

[benny_a]

Should have made it a retailer exclusive pre-order bonus.

 

[vg260]

I'll just lock it at 30fps. This isn't Ninja Gaiden, or some fast paced action adventure game. This game is about stealth and strategy. I know 60fps is nice, but I just don't see it as a vital gaming component for this particular game.

Vital, no. Visually a hell of a lot smoother and more fluid though, not even considering how it affects gameplay.

If you appreciate the visual presentation of the game at all, you're doing yourself a huge disservice if you instantly jump to the menu and change it to 30fps before playing. Experience it for a while at 60 fps first, then go back if the shadows gross you out.

Improved shadows vs. the fluid animation of 60 fps is not even a contest, imo. You'll notice the more fluid motion of everything way more than you will the shadow details in-game.
It's a subtly improved effect vs something that effects the entire visual presentation AND gameplay.
Save the 30 fps mode for using photo mode.

 

[StuBurns]

I hate that I'm irritated by this.

Objectively, it's absurd to literally waste half the pipeline time, and it should have improvements, but now there's always the idea that it might be better at 30.

This is why multiple versions of films suck ass.

 

[VisceralBowl]

I hate that I'm irritated by this.

Objectively, it's absurd to literally waste half the pipeline time, and it should have improvements, but now there's always the idea that it might be better at 30.

This is why multiple versions of films suck ass.

Except 48 FPS sucks.

Spoiler

(imo)

 

[antitrop]

I hate that I'm irritated by this.

Objectively, it's absurd to literally waste half the pipeline time, and it should have improvements, but now there's always the idea that it might be better at 30.

This is why multiple versions of films suck ass.

Dude, it's just shadows.

 

[SexyFish]

Dude, it's just shadows.

This. After watching the gamersyde footage, there is no way I'm going to lock it at 30.

 

[Wolfgang Jr]

I knew they would fuck us some way. Never Trust Next Gen.

 

[SexyFish]

I knew they would fuck us some way. Never Trust Next Gen.

...This is sarcasm right?

 

[Seik]

I knew they would fuck us some way. Never Trust Next Gen.

If you call this being fucked, man, it really doesn't take much.

 

[TheTurboFD]

I knew they would fuck us some way. Never Trust Next Gen.

In what way are they screwing you over?

 

[cr_blah_blah]

I feel like there's a vast portion of people who are getting upset for no rational reason beside it feeling like a thing to get annoyed by. It's pretty absurd.

 

[PSYGN]

I feel like there's a vast portion of people who are getting upset for no rational reason beside it feeling like a thing to get annoyed by. It's pretty absurd.

It really is a silly and embarrassing thing to get angry about.

 

[AgentP]

People are upset over an improvement? wow.

 

[Reg]

I knew they would fuck us some way. Never Trust Next Gen.

 

[Pinkman_ABQ]

I knew they would fuck us some way. Never Trust Next Gen.

 

[StuBurns]

Okay, just watched the footage, shadows can eat a dick.

DatFluidity

 

[ambientric]

What the hell are you even talking about ?
Everyone knew the game was going to have dips every now and then it's why ND never said it was locked 60fps or arne .
Also a game being 60fps does look better if talking about gfx for eg animation i rather 60fps but i also have no problem with 30fps.

This arne post is what i was referring to...hyperbole, obsfucation, call it what you will

I really wouldn't worry about it everyone. Here's the thing. if we say it's absolutely 60 and and someone goes somewhere and spins the camera constantly and creates explosions and water splashes while looking at epic giraffics and it dips to 59.9 and someone can tell, someone will want to sue papa sony for not being truthful in their ad/marketing materials or something. we just gotta be cautious. i don't think anyone where is going to be displeased by the performance - except dark10x maybe. but that's dark10x and we included that 30fps mode for those 2 out of 8 times he prefers 30fps.

while this question came up a lot today because that's their job, I didn't see anyone doubt we've got a solid looking and frame rate-ing game

 

[LegendX48]

This. After watching the gamersyde footage, there is no way I'm going to lock it at 30.

wait, what footage?

 

[SexyFish]

wait, what footage?

Here you go.

 

[LOLOMGWTFBBQ]

I knew they would fuck us some way. Never Trust Next Gen.

I'm usually pretty good at reading sarcasm but I'm not so sure with this one...

 

[TAJ]

This is why multiple versions of films suck ass.

What? Never heard of branching, or just putting them on separate discs?

 

[Swarna]

This is the right way to do things, IMO. In Divinity if I set everything to max I sometimes gets drops to 35-40. If I lower shadows to medium (hardly a difference) I stay at a constant uncompromised 60. Shadows are a a huge performance killer and they don't add too much, at least for me.

 

[SovereignSnake]

This thread is getting better by the post. GAF you are my entertainment for the night.

 

[GayForMaster]

So with 30 FPS, you get better shadows but at 60 mode you get worse shadows and frame dips? I don't give a fuck about shadows but I thought they were pushing for over 60 FPS to lock it at 60. Looks like the dream is dead.

 

[antitrop]

So with 30 FPS, you get better shadows but at 60 mode you get worse shadows and frame dips? I don't give a fuck about shadows but I thought they were pushing for over 60 FPS to lock it at 60. Looks like the dream is dead.

You should probably just wait for the DF graph, dark10x is the only person I trust with an eyeball analysis.

 

[StuBurns]

What? Never heard of branching, or just putting them on separate discs?

I have no idea what you mean.

What I meant by that is I don't like when multiple versions of the same film are available, because I almost never consider one of them to be definitive to the point of not regarding the others. It feels like they're not optimal, if I want to watch T2, I should watch the Special Edition, because the scene when the chip is altered is the most important in the entire film, and it's not in the theatrical cut, but that means I also have to put up with sloppy pacing and that awful smiling scene.

The New World is one of my favorite films, I will have to avoid the theatrical cut of that film forever, because I know it'd just piss me off.

 

[SMOK3Y]

Can't believe we're even still making this compromise FOR A GAME FROM LAST GEN. Let me repeat - this is NOT a current gen game that can't get 60fps AND have top end graphics. Now we can't even get a 60fps version of a LAST GEN game WITH all the trimmings? WTF. Sorry but we deserve better. Game just scream cash in and I expect better from ND. I also expect that they don't dance around this like the have been. Apparently 30 fps was JUST in there for the ones who were crazy and wanted 30fps. All of a sudden, right before release this hits. Great.

serious??

 

[Freeman]

There ain't no such thing as a free 60fps, they did the right thing to not compromise the 30fps graphics just to maintain parity.

No reason for any outcry.

 

[teiresias]

Oh thank you ND. I've always wanted my console games to present the same choices about what to sacrifice and what not to sacrifice in the same way I have to make decision about settings in my PC games.

This was sarcasm if you didn't notice.

I love PC gaming but it's full of making decisions like that, and I know some like that but I've always appreciated how console games have developer directed compromises baked in and I don't have to spend half an hour playing around and then decide which way I like it better. Just pop the game in and go. Yes I realize the 60fps shadows are still better than the PS3 version, the fact remains you still have to choose between frame rate and shadows.

 

[TAJ]

I have no idea what you mean.

Thought you meant bit rate. Like with The Descent Blu-ray they encoded the whole movie twice because Blu-ray was half-baked and ghetto at the time and they wanted to try to compete with HD-DVD's PiP features.

 

[squidyj]

Can't believe we're even still making this compromise FOR A GAME FROM LAST GEN. Let me repeat - this is NOT a current gen game that can't get 60fps AND have top end graphics. Now we can't even get a 60fps version of a LAST GEN game WITH all the trimmings? WTF. Sorry but we deserve better. Game just scream cash in and I expect better from ND. I also expect that they don't dance around this like the have been. Apparently 30 fps was JUST in there for the ones who were crazy and wanted 30fps. All of a sudden, right before release this hits. Great.

16.67 ms of frame budget is 16.67ms of frame budget, doesn't matter what hardware you're talking about, please stop saying stupid things.

 

[LegendX48]

Here you go.

God damn! PS3 version so damn slow and jarring in the split screen comparisons O_O

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

I assume the shadow quality at 60FPS is still much better than on Ps3.

 

[antitrop]

Oh thank you ND. I've always wanted my console games to present the same choices about what to sacrifice and what not to sacrifice in the same way I have to make decision about settings in my PC games.

This was sarcasm if you didn't notice.

I love PC gaming but it's full of making decisions like that, and I know some like that but I've always appreciated how console games have developer directed compromises baked in and I don't have to spend half an hour playing around and then decide which way I like it better. Just pop the game in and go. Yes I realize the 60fps shadows are still better than the PS3 version, the fact remains you still have to choose between frame rate and shadows.

I'll make the decision easy for you:

Shadows are usually one of the first graphical settings PC gamers turn down to achieve their preferred frame rate.

 

[Loakum]

Vital, no. Visually a hell of a lot smoother and more fluid though, not even considering how it affects gameplay.

If you appreciate the visual presentation of the game at all, you're doing yourself a huge disservice if you instantly jump to the menu and change it to 30fps before playing. Experience it for a while at 60 fps first, then go back if the shadows gross you out.

Improved shadows vs. the fluid animation of 60 fps is not even a contest, imo. You'll notice the more fluid motion of everything way more than you will the shadow details in-game.
It's a subtly improved effect vs something that effects the entire visual presentation AND gameplay.
Save the 30 fps mode for using photo mode.

Thank you for fully explaining this to me. It makes more sense to play it at 60fps. I stand corrected.

 

[StuBurns]

Thought you meant bit rate. Like with The Descent Blu-ray they encoded the whole movie twice because Blu-ray was half-baked and ghetto at the time and they wanted to try to compete with HD-DVD's PiP features.

Oh, that doesn't bother me at all, I'd just buy the new one. Looking forward to my new Y Tu Mama Tambien BRD coming soon.

 

[Loakum]

I'm soo stealing this awesome gif! ^_^

 

[teiresias]

I'll make the decision easy for you:

Shadows are usually one of the first graphical settings PC gamers turn down to achieve their preferred frame rate.

I play plenty of PC games. I know this information. I'm just talking about one of the things I've always liked about console games vs PC games.

 

[antitrop]

I play plenty of PC games. I know this information. I'm just talking about one of the things I've always liked about console games vs PC games.

This is still an easier decision than what to eat for breakfast.

 

[SapientWolf]

You should probably just wait for the DF graph, dark10x is the only person I trust with an eyeball analysis.

I think I got it right on the Killzone video way back when.

I only saw it keep a steady 60 for a few seconds at the beginning, and a few seconds around 43s in. Otherwise it's a high unlocked framerate between 30 and 60, most likely with triple buffering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlAYu_Vs-js

edit: And the first 4 seconds of the original video was cut (it was the M logo). So I think I was right on the money.

 

[psychotron]

All this uproar over shadows. Naughty Dog decided to use the extra resources that 30fps offered to add in a little something extra, and people are shit talking them for it? We have no digital foundry analysis that I'm aware of, so people should also probably hold of condemning the framerate.

 

[Coonce]

I play plenty of PC games. I know this information. I'm just talking about one of the things I've always liked about console games vs PC games.

The option is there if you want it, just pop the game in and play and don't worry about what others say.

Enjoy the game for what it is, not what shadows look like.

 

[VisceralBowl]

Honestly I will probably play through in both modes. 60 for MP always, 30 for screenshotting purposes.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I think he mean't to say it's the same as the one by Suckerpunch in InFamous SS.

Haha yeah. Mixing companies.