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[Aim_Ed]

It's funny, two of gaming's greatest female characters are from 2013 games and both are based on Ellen Page (TLOU's Ellie and Beyond's Jodie)

My sarcasm detector must be broken, I actually felt offended by this.

 

[Mysterious]

Who are Ms Aran and Ms Croft?

 

[viveks86]

Basically any female covered up and semi unattractive is a good representation for women.

Ugh.

 

[MormaPope]

You said it's a core theme in MGS that female soldiers die like every other soldier. But this simply isn't true, because every single woman is a Special Snowflake who dies an emotional, dialogue-filled death, whereas the random shmucks you gun down regularly are all men. Maybe you're right and it is a prominent theme, but it's a rather ironic one given the noticeable lack of killable female enemies.

Almost every male boss dies the same way. Almost every character dies that way.

Your argument isn't really clear to me, yeah, there aren't female grunt soldiers, but women don't get special treatment when it comes to death. MGS is melodramatic as fuck, one of the reasons why I love the series to begin with.

Psycho Mantis talks a lot before his death. Vulcan Raven talks a lot before his death. Gray Fox talks a lot before his death. Sniper Wolf talks a lot before her death. Liquid gets all philosophical before his death. Vamp talks a lot, Fortune talks a lot, Fatman talks a lot.

 

[watershed]

Samus is awesome to this day aside from in Other M. Even though the metriod games are not heavy on narrative or plot, I have always thought of Samus as a bad ass woman like Ripley.

 

[Forceatowulf]

I am kinda confused here. Does perfect representation of woman must be woman who is powerful, smart and independent?

Does woman who does not have any of that trait means she is not what true woman is?

Here's the thing, we very rarely get female characters that are powerful, smart, and independent. Thus, they tend to stand out over others and are considered to be Golden Standards.

Let's keep it real, the majority of females in video games are there as eyecandy, romance, or plot devices, and not much more.

Basically any female covered up and semi unattractive is a good representation for women.

 

[DOWN]

Basically any female covered up and semi unattractive is a good representation for women.

This post has renewed the feminist movement indefinitely.

 

[ChipotIe]

How is Ellie a respectable role model?

I mean yeah she stabs necks real good yall.

...

She has a great arc but respectable role model is a bit of a stretch.

Anyway my vote goes for The Boss.

 

[NecromorphTX]

glaDOS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all.

 

[funkystudent]

Dont get The Boss love.


I guess if you like really bad dialogue she is great.

Good idea for a character but boy.... Kojima is being his most Kojima with some of her lines.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Here's the thing, we very rarely get female characters that are powerful, smart, and independent. Thus, they tend to stand out over others and are considered to be Golden Standards.

Let's keep it real, the majority of females in video games are there as eyecandy, romance, or plot devices, and not much more.

I'd argue that Ellie *is* a plot device though

 

[ShutterMunster]

Ellie is definitely the best written & acted female character in gaming history. She's also my favorite. I loved The Boss from Snake Eater. Tess is very nuanced too, she makes the most of her limited time. Bonnie from Red Dead and definitely Cortana.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

One of the better examples out of Japan, no doubt.

Emily from Deadly Premontion

awright

Nominating Laura from D/etc.

 

[Forceatowulf]

How is Ellie a respectable role model?

I mean yeah she stabs necks real good yall.

...

She has a great arc but respectable role model is a bit of a stretch.

Anyway my vote goes for The Boss.

This is funny to me. You put down Ellie who kills only to survive, then champion The Boss who kills because she is told to do so? Alright then.

 

[ClaptoVaughn]

glaDOS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all.

This should have been mentioned on page one.

You monsters.

 

[MormaPope]

Dont get The Boss love.


I guess if you like really bad dialogue she is great.

Good idea for a character but boy.... Kojima is being his most Kojima with some of her lines.

The only Metal Gear game to not have melodramtic and flowery writing is probably Metal Gear 1, because the dialog in that game is fucking simple.

 

[Kuroyume]

As opposed to what? DOA girls? Is the implication here that slutty looking women are not a respresentation of women? As if they don't exist?

 

[Forceatowulf]

I'd argue that Ellie *is* a plot device though

You can argue that very easily. But that's not all she is though, which is what sets her apart from the majority of other female characters in gaming today. She has depth and isn't here for just a singular shallow purpose.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Almost every male boss dies the same way. Almost every character dies that way.

Your argument isn't really clear to me, yeah, there aren't female grunt soldiers, but women don't get special treatment when it comes to death.

Women aren't treated like every other soldier. Every single one of them before MGS4 is a big deal. They do get special treatment; male bosses also get this same special treatment, but the main difference is that 99% of the men in the series are disposable grunts, whereas 100% of the women (before MGS4) are not.

When you shoot a man in MGS2, there's a 90% chance that he won't monologue about his motivations. When you shoot a woman in any of the games up to 4, there's a 100% chance that she will. This is why some feminists complain about the lack of generic female enemies in general so much: Because when they do appear, they're treated as an enigma and are inevitably motivated by some traumatic past.

 

[viveks86]

This is funny to me. You put down Ellie who kills only to survive, then champion The Boss who kills because she is told to do so? Alright then.

Haha! Good point!

 

[casiopao]

Please provide an example to make your case.

For example: Haunting Ground Fiona Belli she is not strong physically. She is also not yet mature as she is mentally dependant on her partner dog. She is also easy to get scared which is understandable as almost everyone who is suddenly placed on such condition is surely going to get freak out.

However she slowly grow using her smartness and teamwork with the dog, she is able to beat the enemies.

This is also another example of woman right? Or this does not count as all girl must be strong and powerful?

 

[Blues1990]

I also want to shout out Junon in Dragon Force because she slips my mind and is never, ever mentioned for any of these threads:

It's been a long time since I've played the game and don't remember a lot about her story, but I know she repped.

Okay, this gal looks really intimidating. Yikes! 0_0

 

[Yakkue]

Valkyrie from Valkyrie Profile was amazing.

 

[sjay1994]

Honestly I feel Bayonetta is probably the best female character ever.

She is strong, sexy and confident.

Bayonetta might seem like a joke answer because her sexuality is so up front, but she's one of the greatest examples of positive female representation in games.

Bayonetta displays incredible power and poise in every situation. She is never at the mercy of misogynistic stereotypes. In fact, her game takes special care to set them up so Bayonetta can shoot them down. She subverts every cliche by playing on your assumptions and then defying your expectations.

The whole story of the game is basically about Bayonetta learning to be the best version of herself by becoming her own role model. Seriously, she is an entirely self-actualized superhero who defies her fated role as a powerless outcast and pawn, and I find that fucking awesome.

Yup.

Also giving a nod to femshep

I don't understand the people bringing up Glados and Samus. One is a computer program, the other is a silent vessel for the player, who when opened her mouth for the first time was a submissive person who was bossed around the entire game not to mention constantly talking about the baby.

 

[Forceatowulf]

For example: Haunting Ground Fiona Belli she is not strong physically. She is also not yet mature as she is mentally dependant on her partner dog. She is also easy to get scared which is understandable as almost everyone who is suddenly placed on such condition is surely going to get freak out.

However she slowly grow using her smartness and teamwork with the dog, she is able to beat the enemies.

This is also another example of woman right? Or this does not count as all girl must be strong and powerful?

The way you're describing her paints a picture of a pretty strong and powerful person to me. *shrugs*

 

[viveks86]

For example: Haunting Ground Fiona Belli she is not strong physically. She is also not yet mature as she is mentally dependant on her partner dog. She is also easy to get scared which is understandable as almost everyone who is suddenly placed on such condition is surely going to get freak out.

However she slowly grow using her smartness and teamwork with the dog, she is able to beat the enemies.

This is also another example of woman right? Or this does not count as all girl must be strong and powerful?

I have no idea about this game, but your description of it sounds just fine. As long as her characterization is well thought out, I see no reason for a great representation to fit any mold. So yes, I'd agree with you

 

[revolverjgw]

2 Pages and no Elena Fisher, you guys disgust me.

My favorite, such a natural character. They don't really do anything that feels overly blatant in demonstrating that she's "tough" and not just some "damsel in distress". They don't give her the ability to do the same things the seasoned adventurers

Spoiler

(serial killers)

can do, but you still feel like she's a match for the male characters, and a versatile ally that they need. Even when she's the one in trouble. She's just, like... "one of the guys".

And she sounds like it. There's something about her VA that I loved, she lacks the velvet smooth voice that 99.9% of women in games have, her voice has character. Feels like there's 3 actresses that play every woman and they've all got a certain style...

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Almost every male boss dies the same way. Almost every character dies that way.

Your argument isn't really clear to me, yeah, there aren't female grunt soldiers, but women don't get special treatment when it comes to death. MGS is melodramatic as fuck, one of the reasons why I love the series to begin with.

Psycho Mantis talks a lot before his death. Vulcan Raven talks a lot before his death. Gray Fox talks a lot before his death. Sniper Wolf talks a lot before her death. Liquid gets all philosophical before his death. Vamp talks a lot, Fortune talks a lot, Fatman talks a lot.

Only the women get really really, really long sobstory delivered by in a cringeworthy monologue, though. And only the women get into a weird white room segment which they suggestively pose for the camera. And the only bosses who seem to be barely functioning mentally are women.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Honestly I feel Bayonetta is probably the best female character ever.

She is strong, sexy and confident.

I don't understand the people bringing up Glados and Samus. One is a computer program

Not sure how this disqualifies her. Glados (and SHODAN) are always identified as female.

, the other is a silent vessel for the player, who when opened her mouth for the first time was a submissive person who was bossed around the entire game not to mention constantly talking about the baby.

Because she was one of the earliest examples of a female character who was treated as an equal to her male counterparts, as opposed to being some helpless damsel or blatant fanservice (you can unlock a bikini for her, granted, but she primarily wears that bulky armor). Of course, at the time she debuted her male counterparts were silent vessels for the player, so there's that.

 

[kunonabi]

Heather Mason is still the best there is.

 

[Laughing Banana]

For example: Haunting Ground Fiona Belli she is not strong physically. She is also not yet mature as she is mentally dependant on her partner dog. She is also easy to get scared which is understandable as almost everyone who is suddenly placed on such condition is surely going to get freak out.

However she slowly grow using her smartness and teamwork with the dog, she is able to beat the enemies.

This is also another example of woman right? Or this does not count as all girl must be strong and powerful?

She's sexualized rather shamelessly on that game though... so many male gazes there, hahaha. Although if we're not talking about costumes but strictly character only, then yeah she's alright.

My favorite, such a natural character. They don't really do anything that feels overly blatant in demonstrating that she's "tough" and not just some "damsel in distress". They don't give her the ability to do the same things the seasoned adventurers

Spoiler

(serial killers)

can do, but you still feel like she's a match for the male characters, and a versatile ally that they need. Even when she's the one in trouble. She's just, like... "one of the guys".

Pffffffffffffffffft. I must have been playing different games than you then: she's just as capable as Drake when killing seasoned mercenaries and even as able as him in performing death-defying acrobatic moves on cliffs! Hahaha.

 

[watershed]

Honestly I feel Bayonetta is probably the best female character ever.

She is strong, sexy and confident.



Yup.

Also giving a nod to femshep

I don't understand the people bringing up Glados and Samus. One is a computer program, the other is a silent vessel for the player, who when opened her mouth for the first time was a submissive person who was bossed around the entire game not to mention constantly talking about the baby.

Regarding Samus, she is a videogame character not a movie character or literary character. So her characterization doesn't come in the same ways as in movies or novels. Her character is defined by background, scenarios in the game, and what you do as her. Aside from Other M, which most fans recognize is a terrible characterization of who Samus is, Samus has long been thought of as a strong female videogame character, if not the original strong female videogame character. The moment at the end of the first Metriod when Samus takes off her helmet and is revealed as a woman is probably one of the most memorable moments in 8 bit gaming. At the time, I think most people assumed they were playing as a man until that scene. If that's not a statement of female strength then I don't know what is.

 

[thesolidshark]

This is funny to me. You put down Ellie who kills only to survive, then champion The Boss who kills because she is told to do so? Alright then.

I would put Ellie down if her biggest contribution to TLOU was killing (and it doesn't seem like it was), but maybe his picking the Boss could be more than just about killing. I look at her as a legendary soldier who's not only killed, but led her own special unit, helped shaped civilization in the century she was a part of, sacrificed a great deal and held on to her beliefs no matter the cost.

I'm not saying Ellie has to measure up to that to be any kind of good female representation, but it's a tall order to compare to someone of The Boss's caliber.

Only the women get really really, really long sobstory delivered by in a cringeworthy monologue, though. And only the women get into a weird white room segment which they suggestively pose for the camera. And the only bosses who seem to be barely functioning mentally are women.

The the female death scenes usually last as long as the men to my recollection. It's hard to think of who had a longer death segment than Psycho Mantis; his was almost literally a life story. The reason the B&B corps got white-roomed is because their character models were based on actual real-life models (in retrospect, it might've been better to set that aside as some sort of extra instead of in the campaign, as I didn't understand it at first). As for barely functioning mentally, again, that's the B&B. Sniper Wolf, Fortune, the Boss, they were pretty much intact.

 

[ClaptoVaughn]

Caroline Becker in the Wolfenstein games. Shes always been a strong and respectable character, managing to fight for herself even after being taken hostage, and survives a paralyzing injury.

When BJ tries to express remorse for her situation, she refutes it and makes for one of the best cutscenes in Wolfenstein: The New Order. When she says "ive learned how to fly" and that music volume kicks up...

 

[revolverjgw]

She's sexualized rather shamelessly on that game though... so many male gazes there, hahaha. Although if we're not talking about costumes but strictly character only, then yeah she's alright.



Pffffffffffffffffft. I must have been playing different games than you then: she's just as capable as Drake when killing seasoned mercenaries and even as able as him in performing death-defying acrobatic moves on cliffs! Hahaha.

She gets her licks in and survives the unsurvivable like a pulp heroine should but she is definitely NOT Drake with boobs.

 

[Forceatowulf]

I would put Ellie down if her biggest contribution to TLOU was killing (and it doesn't seem like it was), but maybe his picking the Boss could be more than just about killing. I look at her as a legendary soldier who's not only killed, but led her own special unit, helped shaped civilization in the century she was a part of, sacrificed a great deal and held on to her beliefs no matter the cost.

I'm not saying Ellie has to measure up to that to be any kind of good female representation, but it's a tall order to compare to someone of The Boss's caliber.

You don't have to educate me about The Boss, breh. You're preaching to the choir on that one.

I just found it amusing that he seemed put off by Ellie, mainly for being a killer, and then goes on to praise The Boss, who is also a killer...both of these characters contribute so much more than that in their games. So much more.

 

[Laughing Banana]

You can argue that very easily. But that's not all she is though, which is what sets her apart from the majority of other female characters in gaming today. She has depth and isn't here for just a singular shallow purpose.

Can you give me examples of female characters in gaming today that you think are just shallow plot devices?

She gets her licks in and survives the unsurvivable like a pulp heroine should but she is definitely NOT Drake with boobs.

I was mostly just joking around. It's kind of hilarious to see how it seems like ND wanted to paint her as this "normal" lady but then in gameplay she could kill so many mercenaries or jumping/climbing/performing so many death-defying stunts so effortlessly.

 

[rpmurphy]

I don't know much about the characters of TLOU (are they even playable characters?), but Chun-Li is the best female character of all time.

 

[thesolidshark]

You don't have to educate me about The Boss, breh. You're preaching to the choir on that one.

I just found it amusing that he seemed put off by Ellie, mainly for being a killer, and then goes on to praise The Boss, who is also a killer...both of these characters contribute so much more than that in their games. So much more.

Well, to be fair, we don't see the Boss killing anyone in Snake Eater, while Ellie has to kill a lot in TLOU maybe. When I play TLOU, I hope there is more to her; most of what I've heard of her is sensible aesthetic, foul mouth, usefulness in combat, and written better by most standards. This is all well and good, but the praise for her now just seems like she's good instead of great while every other example rated terrible instead of ok.

 

[casiopao]

The way you're describing her paints a picture of a pretty strong and powerful person to me. *shrugs*

U are wrong though. As even till the end of the game, she is always worried about everything. While her mental strength have indeed increase, she still run from the enemies. She still get scared easily and highly dependent on her dog. She does not even swear againts the final boss.

That is in my opinion another type of woman, which is while not powerful, had her own kind of charm.

 

[jg4xchamp]

April Ryan

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

The the female death scenes usually last as long as the men to my recollection. It's hard to think of who had a longer death segment than Psycho Mantis; his was almost literally a life story. The reason the B&B corps got white-roomed is because their character models were based on actual real-life models (in retrospect, it might've been better to set that aside as some sort of extra instead of in the campaign, as I didn't understand it at first). As for barely functioning mentally, again, that's the B&B. Sniper Wolf, Fortune, the Boss, they were pretty much intact.

Each B&B gets these very melodramatic life story told by Drebin. They're the longest character background monologues of all the games. Yar, I'm saying that when we do get characters who could barely string more than two words together, they're all women.

I just hate B&B so much.

 

[viveks86]

U are wrong though. As even till the end of the game, she is always worried about everything. While her mental strength have indeed increase, she still run from the enemies. She still get scared easily and highly dependent on her dog. She does not even swear againts the final boss.

That is in my opinion another type of woman, which is while not powerful, had her own kind of charm.

I like the argument you are making here. The more I think about it, it does seem like popular opinion circles around certain stereotypes of great characters. It's good to see you challenge that notion.

 

[Hobbestetrician]

Really wished I liked this game more, would make browsing GAF much easier lately.

The Boss and Jade are, by far, the best female characters in a game.

 

[kidtamagotchi]

I like Sheva in Resident Evil 5, she makes a good role model (I think, it's been a while since I played it).

Chun Li, she is the strongest woman in the world after all.

 

[...Scatter...]

This is too subjective as what a good female role model is, is in the eye of the beholder. Same thing for male role models. Some of the most controversial characteristics:

• Sexuality - Is the character sexual in any way. Hetero or Homo? Traditional or outgoing?
• Appearance - Does the character fit your aesthetic for (what people normally look for in role models) "reserved" beauty. In other words, most people would pick a character just attractive enough, but not too attractive. It's the Jennifer Aniston effect. Women love her because shes cute but not hot enough to be a threat.
• Intelligence - Some folks (like me) find intelligence to be paramount. Others look at it as being on a high horse. (whatever)
• Personality - Reserved or outgoing? Aggressive or passive? Funny or stoic? etc, etc.

Please don't let this upset anyone as I'm merely pointing out that a role model can mean different things to different people. I love all types of people and respect them for who they are.

 

[SOLDIER]

Geez what is going on here.

First, why is representation of women something we should rank, such that there is a "best"? Why not "great examples of women characters in video games"? Representation of women is not a subject for list wars.

Second, why is "women" in quotation marks? All this seems to do is suggest you don't mean women literally, but rather as a euphemism.

Thank you, someone with reason.

You know what the best representation of a woman is? The one that isn't inserted there just to be a woman, whether for fanservice or otherwise.

 

[viveks86]

Why should they be role models? Let's not limit the scope of this discussion to just people we want to emulate. I see the clarification in the OP, but I'm certain those aren't the only people the OP wants to discuss. Great characters and great role models do overlap, but they aren't synonymous.

 

[SOLDIER]

And holy shit could people stop listing Alyx as this ultimate, flawless representation of female empowerment in gaming or whatever platitude people toss her way?

She's a good character, no she's a great character.

But don't pretend she wasn't haphazardly lusting after you in the HL2 sequels. At the start of Episode I she literally hugs you in first person.

Not that being attracted to the MC is a bad thing, just that she went from zero to horny in-between games, and no one ever calls notice to that.

 

[Rafterman]

How is a single character, or even two "the best representation of "women" in video games? News flash women are different, so no, Ellie isn't best representation of women in gaming, she's merely an excellent representation of a woman, a girl actually. There is no single individual that encapsulates "woman". And just because it's the newest game you've played with a female in it doesn't make it the best, I thought characters like Jade and Cate Archer were excellent, Ellie just happens to be the latest.

And holy shit could people stop listing Alyx as this ultimate, flawless representation of female empowerment in gaming or whatever platitude people toss her way?

She's a good character, no she's a great character.

But don't pretend she wasn't haphazardly lusting after you in the HL2 sequels. At the start of Episode I she literally hugs you in first person.

Not that being attracted to the MC is a bad thing, just that she went from zero to horny in-between games, and no one ever calls notice to that.

OMG! A hug? WTF, what a whore!!!!

You've never hugged someone you were glad to see? Every time you hug someone it's because you are "lusting" after them? HL2 actually never touches on the romantic part of their relationship and she's definitely not there as a set piece.