Batman: Arkham Knight Aiming for identical Res/Framerate Across Xbox One and PS4

Chobel

Member
Then a job well done..see below.

See what? Both having solid 30 fps means PS4 performance headroom isn't used at all.

Even FIRST PARTY aims for a performance target in games. See Driveclub...or Horizon 2...or basically every game ever on consoles.

LOL! First party aims for a performance target that actually push the hardware, Having the same target as xbone means you're not pushing the PS4 hardware.
 
Because you won't get it. No one on GAF is going to get an honest answer from Rocksteady management on how this decision was made. We only got one from Ubi because the guy fucked up and let it slip.

I know. This is why I don't see the point of giving the devs the benefit of the doubt about "dev goals". If they choose parity and don't provide clarification they deserve to get shit for it.
 
If it really does "aim for parity", that's another game off my list. No skin off my back devs. Keep diggin'.
This. Save me money, devs. Go right ahead. I'll get it on PC when it's barely anything on Steam. Thanks!
I'm entering this camp as well. Of my roommates, one owns and PS4 and another owns a XBone (I own the Wii U). So between each of us, we routinely buy games for each others' system and game on each platform. If this keeps up, I won't be buying the 3rd party games that I want to check out for the PS4.
 
Parity could be 1080P 30fps and if that's the case then that's great.

I guess different games get different treatment because I don't remember the GTAV thread that announced parity between the consoles having a bunch of "then no buy" declarations.

I'm just hoping for a great looking and playing game. That being said, I'll be getting this game on PC.
 
Considering they are half a year away from anything like that being set in stone, I choose to believe this means they were trying to get Xbone up to 1080, rather than keep PS4 down at 900.

Framerate will be 30, at best. Anyone who hopes for anything better out of an open world game is bonkers.
 

McHuj

Member
Am i the only one who doesn't like the gamespot article adding in "graphics" to the title of the article, when at no point in the Question and answer was graphics said.

sshhh. you might stop people from needlessly working themselves up.
 

Hugstable

Banned
Sometimes I'm glad I got my PC for these things haha. Sounds pretty shitty, but we don't really know all the details yet, so who knows.
 
I don't understand this line of reasoning. Wanting a more powerfl platform to be crippled or have a lesser version that you'll never play - makes you feel good?

I can understand it. If you prefer the Xbox One for whatever reason, especially now that it's cheaper, knowing that the other console version is the same makes you feel like you're not missing anything for going with the weaker console.
 

MMaRsu

Gold Member
Motherfuckers you holding back the PS4 version?
Then no goddamn sale from me. Unity gets the same treatment.
 

erawsd

Member
Were developers this hung up on parity last generation?

Sure, "parity" has always been the goal of multiplatform development. the big change from previous gens is that neither console is the "lead platform" that benefits from the inherent advantages of that. Now most of the heavy lifting is done on PC.
 

shandy706

Member
But I'm saying what if Rocksteady are planning to make both versions look the same in every graphical area, even if the PS4 can comfortably run 1080p at 30fps at 'high' settings, all for the sake of completely parity?

Then that would be wrong of them to do so.

If it's not the case, then the "not buying/jump to conclusions" crowd is being silly. I'm not talking to anyone that would be angry if they purposely scaled a game back...simply to scale it back. ;)

See what? Both having solid 30 fps means PS4 performance headroom isn't used at all.

Do we know they're both solid? How do you know that headroom doesn't help avoid slow down in certain areas?

LOL! First party aims for a performance target that actually push the hardware

Exactly. This isn't a first party game, and we don't know what the performance differences are. It's perfectly possible the better PS4 hardware allowed better and easier development in performance.


Edit** Chobel...see my previous post. I'm not talking to anyone that would be upset if they literally gimped the game on purpose.
 
I quoted Shandy, not you. You started talking to me about 1st world. 1st world has time to post on message boards during work? :p So please leave that out of this discussion.
I didn't mean you when I quoted you boyo. It was referencing the crazy guy in the beginning who had a rant about #firstworldproblems :S
 
Then that would be wrong of them to do so.

If it's not the case, then the "not buying/jump to conclusions" crowd is being silly. I'm not talking to anyone that would be angry if they purposely scaled a game back...simply to scale it back. ;)

Agreed. I'm glad to see that we're on the same page. :)
 

Wavebossa

Member
I think someone earlier said it best, "Most Devs see the PS4 and the XBox1 as one system. They cannot afford the time to make optimizations or niche additions to either one"

Which.. is a sad but most likely true reality
 

KTS2448

Member
I refuse to buy a game that a developer held back on purpose to support parity between two consoles. Microsoft made their choice with lower specs. They need to live with it.

Rocksteady better tread lightly....
 
Were developers this hung up on parity last generation?
No. Last gen the cheapest and easiest to program for hardware, the 360, performed better with multiplatform games and everyone pretty much understood that.

This generation, one machine, the PS4, was (is it still?) the cheapest for most of the current generation, is the easiest to apprehend, is more powerful and sells better yet devs invoke parity and don't even try to use PS4's strengths to its advantage. I can understand why people claim bullshit on that one. It makes little sense. I have a PS4, I want it to be used properly. If they outdo themselves and make the XB1 version equivalent to PS4's. fine. Everybody wins. If they take the cheap way out and make it otherwise, they should expect me to vote with my wallet. Sorry guys, no money for you. Other games that fill the boxes I expect are competing for my attention.
 

Chobel

Member
Then that would be wrong of them to do so.

If it's not the case, then the "not buying/jump to conclusions" crowd is being silly. I'm not talking to anyone that would be angry if they purposely scaled a game back...simply to scale it back. ;)

Well that sorta what's happening here, the game still has 7 months before going gold, and aiming for graphics parity from now means they're not even thinking of trying to do "high" with PS4, they're settling with "med" in both versions since Xbone can do it.

EDIT: If their goal is "high" for both consoles, I guess they can't really use PS4 performance headroom to go with "ultra". But I doubt PS4veriosn can hit "medium" even when using its full power and code to metal shit.
 
So what if they put their all into the PS4 build and got it at a silky smooth 30fps locked....but absolutely struggled to get the X1 at 1080p/25-30fps?

They delivered on the PS4, just managed to get close in parity on the X1..and people still don't want to give them money in that scenerio..

That really sucks for them.


I'm done with the conversation. I can see the scenerio where they may have done their best and could likely give one piece of hardware a much smoother experience, yet people still fuss because they see a similar resolution or framerate. Parity in settings doesn't mean absolute parity in performance...developers need to abandon the word. Unless it's obvious that they borked a game, I don't get the outcry.

So then they will have to compromise with the X1 version; either they shoot for the smoother framerate, or pare down until they can hit 1080p. Decisions will be made, and none should involve gimping the PS4 to better accommodate the weaker X1. At this point there's no reason to tout platform parity in these interviews, because everyone knows the hardware situation, just make the best game you can make for each platform and call it a day.
 

BumRush

Member
PS4 owner...already have the game pre-ordered. I could care less if it's 900P, 1080P, whatever, just lock the fucking framerate, please.
 

Lt-47

Member
Ehh you might be skipping alot of games then, because it's seemingly becoming more widespread this gen with 3rd party games sadly.

We have yet to see any game with actual parity tho. I really doubt that Unity run and look the same on both platforms, despite both being at the same resolution.
 
I think someone earlier said it best, "Most Devs see the PS4 and the XBox1 as one system. They cannot afford the time to make optimizations or niche additions to either one"

Which.. is a sad but most likely true reality

They didn't have a problem doing that last gen.
 

McHuj

Member
This generation, one machine, the PS4, was (is it still?) the cheapest for most of the current generation, is the easiest to apprehend, is more powerful and sells better yet devs invoke parity and don't even try to use PS4's strength. I can understand why people claim bullshit on that one. It makes little sense.

So far there hasn't been game shipped that in a meaningful way doesn't perform the same or better on the PS4 so it is like last generation.
 
We have yet to see any game with actual parity tho. I really doubt that Unity run and look the same on both platforms, despite both being at the same resolution.

Destiny.

So far there hasn't been game shipped that in a meaningful way doesn't perform the same or better on the PS4 so it is like last generation.

Unlike last generation, though, the hardware gap between the PS4 and Xbone is much more significant than the one between the PS3 and 360.
 
I refuse to buy a game that a developer held back on purpose to support parity between two consoles. Microsoft made their choice with lower specs. They need to live with it.

Rocksteady better tread lightly....
That is how I feel. They sacrificed power for the Kinect. They made their choice. I own both consoles BTW.
It annoys me developers gimping their own games for parity sake.
 
I know. This is why I don't see the point of giving the devs the benefit of the doubt about "dev goals". If they choose parity and don't provide clarification they deserve to get shit for it.
Yep, and that's what almost always happens. Not the parity part, but devs will rarely actually justify themselves or provide meaningful clarification about anything, and even when they do it has to pass through meticulous PR bullshit first.

People worried about this type of stuff don't give them the benefit of the doubt because most of the time they treat this concerns as nothing but noise.
 
why is everyone melting down? he's just saying what they are aiming for, doesn't mean they are actively reducing things to get parity. They are aiming for parity.
 

McHuj

Member
They didn't have a problem doing that last gen.

Because they weren't the same system last gen, so they couldn't.

You have to two systems with pretty much identical architecture so you can keep development common for most of the cycle until you get to platform specific optimizations. Last gen due to major architectural differences between CPU, GPU, and memory setups development had to split way earlier.
 

Jomjom

Banned
Hmmm this is very interesting. Last gen this was almost unheard of, i dont know of any games where the devs aimed for parity and hurt the 360 version for the sake of the PS3. Why is this a thing all of a sudden?
 

Ursiform

Banned
PS4 owner...already have the game pre-ordered. I could care less if it's 900P, 1080P, whatever, just lock the fucking framerate, please.

If there was tearing in Arkham City I don't remember it (360), certainly not in the challenge modes. The batmobile could be a problem though.
 

Konosuke

Member
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Is it really that hard to say: "We are developing to each platform's strength" or something like that? Will wait for a used copy now, GG Rocksteady.
 

Hugstable

Banned
We have yet to see any game with actual parity tho. I really doubt that Unity run and look the same on both platforms, despite both being at the same resolution.

That's the thing that I mentioned in my post before this, we have tons of people basing this decision off just a few statements about the game, and it doesn't really mean anything when the games Framerates and stuff can play a huge difference. We should probably wait a bit more for some concrete details about things like this.
 
I'm just saying that if people are going to pass on a great gaming experience (or maybe just just refuse to support a studio who had given us some amazing games) because the PS4 version isn't significantly better then they probably have their priorities as a gamer out of whack. If graphics are someone's top priority they should probably be on PC anyway, which is sure to be the best version in terms of IQ.

When will people ever stop with this strawmaning? What you're essentially ignoring, is the fact that PS4 owners who willingly and knowingly bought their console based on the advantages it has over the other system.

By moving the issue into but-the-game-matters reasoning is to create consumer's remorse simply because their console of choice is unable to meet the same requirements. It's an incredibly selfish mindset that hurts competition because it's the equivalent of saying companies shouldn't use their resources to the best of their capabilities as long as the lowest common denominator exists.

And if history tells you about last generation is that the PS3's multiplat issue paved the way for Xbox to reach the competitive state you know today. And now the PS4 is trying all attempts to not only rectify the issue but also included an extra incentive so that the current consumers would never have to face such blunder again. It is goodwill to regain the trust to those players who feel burnt out on having to deal with ports like Skyrim; and people bought on such promise this gem to see it doesn't happen again. Clearly, the rate the console sells correlates to such changes.

Now you have companies like these to sabotage on the console's value. And for what? To create an unfair competitive advantage to a console they have no intrinsic benefit from? What's really peculiar is that this never was a problem during the PS3 era where developers and games alike constantly berate the complexity of the system, thus losing any sort of optimization advantage despite having neck-to-neck user-base in that generation.

But now it's the exact opposite: The Ps4 is leading on both hardware AND sales. And what do the developers do under such scenario, why the redoubled their efforts into making the weaker system to catch up to the PS4. Wow! Where were these guys in the last generation? Why do developers prioritize a single system when they're supposed to be neutral as a development standpoint?

It's anti-consumer practices like this that makes this whole parity thing unacceptable. This isn't a budgeted indie title they're developing - it's AAA game that's meant to use all of the console's available resources (or at least that's what we expect it to be). This imposes a bad precedent to the gaming ecosystem in general. It spits at the face consumers for making a well informed decision when buying platforms. It always doesn't matter to apologists because they enjoy disrupting gamer's enjoyment because they knowingly bought a system that is not capable.

Now you want to use the PC excuse to take the moral high ground? You don't know the irony of that statement. If these developers can scale their engine to a variety of PC components then I'm sure as fucking hell they can work whatever GPU advantage on a SINGULAR system for less effort. That's just it, we're not asking for the world, only a development standard that works across systems. If these devs can't take the advantage on a superior system on SIMILAR hardware than why the hell should I trust these guys on PC ports

Oh, and for the record, Batman:AC on PC was an absolute travesty. Worst implementation of GFWL I've ever had the displeasure of troubleshooting with. If there's one reason I would appreciate "parity"; it would be making a non-obtrusive experience across all platforms.
 

Dr. Kaos

Banned
I'm sure the game will be good and look good so I'm not too worried about this parity talk, but I don't know why anybody would aim for parity when one machine is 40-50% more powerful than the other.

It just isn't done, dear.
 

Krilekk

Banned
Consoles are holding each other back now.

It's always been like that. The weaker platform decides how multiplatform games look. It's simple economics, developing for the weaker platform and doing a straight port to a more powerful system is efficient. Sometimes you get higher resolution as a free bonus, sometimes you don't. Depends on what is the limiting factor.
 

nampad

Member
I think someone earlier said it best, "Most Devs see the PS4 and the XBox1 as one system. They cannot afford the time to make optimizations or niche additions to either one"

Which.. is a sad but most likely true reality

The PS4 is significantly more powerful than the Xbox One, has an easier memory setup and at least at the start of the generation seemed to have a better SDK.

If both console versions run at parity, that actually means they are making time to do optimizations or niche additions for the Xbox One.
 
That's the thing that I mentioned in my post before this, we have tons of people basing this decision off just a few statements about the game, and it doesn't really mean anything when the games Framerates and stuff can play a huge difference. We should probably wait a bit more for some concrete details about things like this.

That's Rocksteady's problem, not ours. If they want to clarify and tell us exactly what their end goal is, nothing's stopping them.
 
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