pinkurocket
Member
Metroid Prime is what 3D Metroid should be, it's perfect. Otherwise give us a 2D Metroid.
Yoshio Sakamoto and the future of Metroid
- Thread starter robor
- Start date
I honestly don't care whether or not Sakamoto created the franchise and the classics. I can appreciate that he made classic and legendary titles the same way that George Lucas managed to make the original Star Wars movies, until his vision got the better of him and he drove the franchise into the ground. And neither will acknowledge that they're bad products, they'll see it as their ultimate vision and admit that it was how the characters and stories always should have been.
Better things have been done with Metroid without Sakamoto at the helm. You don't need Sakamoto to do a good Metroid. Have him on board as a supervisor if you must, but I have no qualms in admitting that the franchise is better without him.
Also everything about Metroid Other M was bad, bad, bad. Not just the story.
Better things have been done with Metroid without Sakamoto at the helm. You don't need Sakamoto to do a good Metroid. Have him on board as a supervisor if you must, but I have no qualms in admitting that the franchise is better without him.
Also everything about Metroid Other M was bad, bad, bad. Not just the story.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Because of one game? Or do you think every Metroid title since Super has been bad?
Well he said the Prime series is non canon, so you can see where his priorities are now.
The Prime series was certainly better than I expected it to be but never reached the heights of any of the first three games in the series. Fusion, though, was a poor Metroid game long before Other M was one of the worst games ever released.
robor
Member
It did have exploration. It's just not the type that follows Super Metroid, Prime 1 and Zero Mission. Rather, it follows Fusion, Prime 2 and 3.
Astral/H3X
Member
I will say that the core engine for Other M did actually feel really good to me. It had that Super Mario 3D World vibe, where it really felt like 2D control in a 3D game. Aside from the first person missles and the sensemove, I really liked the way the game controlled. I really feel like if Samus had way more agency in the game, and the maps were totally redone to be less linear, it would have been a good game.
I'd like to see them try for that 2D feeling in 3D in a future title. Its just the bitchy Samus and linearity that really dragged the game down.
I'd like to see them try for that 2D feeling in 3D in a future title. Its just the bitchy Samus and linearity that really dragged the game down.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Ahhh, well I can see where you're coming from then.
Neon_Icarus
Member
You are a brave man. Some people will tear you apart for saying something good about Other M.
As for me, I desperately want another Zero Mission -like from Sakamoto and his team at Nintendo. Retro should do the next 3D Metroid.
As for me, I desperately want another Zero Mission -like from Sakamoto and his team at Nintendo. Retro should do the next 3D Metroid.
Haunted
Member
Keep the animators, level designers and environmental artists, they all did a terrific job.
Just let someone capable write the dialogue and direct the cutscenes (if that's the direction Sakamoto wants to take the series).
The other thing I didn't like were the first person segments, something clearly shoehorned in for the Wii, no reason to keep something that didn't work going forward.
Just let someone capable write the dialogue and direct the cutscenes (if that's the direction Sakamoto wants to take the series).
The other thing I didn't like were the first person segments, something clearly shoehorned in for the Wii, no reason to keep something that didn't work going forward.
DoctorFling
Member
I might steal this thread title for a children's book I want to write.
I just want New Super Metroid or whatever.
I just want New Super Metroid or whatever.
"Everybody Poops" already exists.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Godammit, HE NEVER SAID THIS, meroid "fans" should know that was a mistranslation, from the very beginning the prime series was meant to be a spin-off series that takes place between meroid and metroid 2, he just reiterated that in a interview.they werent meant to interfere with the main canon anyways!
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Personally a Survival Horror Metroid would be pretty great I think.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
I just want a Retro developed Metroid in the vein of Metroid Prime for WiiU, alongside a Sakamtoto directed 2D Metroid for 3DS that goes back to the roots of Metroid.
Basically replicate what happened with Metroid Prime/Metroid Fusion on November 17th, 2002. It was truly one of the greatest days in gaming, why not do it again?
Basically replicate what happened with Metroid Prime/Metroid Fusion on November 17th, 2002. It was truly one of the greatest days in gaming, why not do it again?
The only problem is, Other M has glaring continuity holes that could only be excused if Prime didn't exist. Side-series or not, Prime is explicitly implied to not be canon. They wouldn't have to have mentioned that if they didn't realize how fucked the writing is in Other M.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It really is a shame that people refuse to look at the good parts of Other M... The movement, the pace, the meshing of 2D and 3D elements. Sakamoto's biggest mistake was in thinking Team Ninja would be a good fit for a Metroid game. Just because a team has made great games doesn't mean they're great at making every type of game... As fantastic as developers like Platinum and Naughty Dog are, they would also be horrible choices to make Metroid. Give Sakamoto another shot at a console Metroid with a team that would do the series justice.
I'm of the same mindset in regards to Other M (70 good, 30 why), and I would like to see what else they could do from a gameplay perspective, especially in regards to environments. I was never really enthused by the 2d Metroid games, but I liked how they brought them back in Other M while also creating fully fleshed out 3d spaces. If they included more flexibility in the zones, I'd be pretty on board with that.
SerTapTap
Member
Fusion is great except for the extremely deliberate extreme linearity. You can barely even break out of sequence for totally useless things, and you have to wait until very late in the game to break into sectors without using the main elevator, and by then it's basically useless except for the forced "sequence break" to continue the game or to collect the power ups only accessible in the "short cuts" between areas.
I...can't really imagine how anyone who has played any metroid game ever would suggest that third person free movement is what Metroid needs.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Get Sakamoto the fuck off the series unless he can restrain himself with the story elements.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Fusion is actually pretty well appreciated I think. It reviewed very well and is praised often on GAF. Personally it's my favorite 2D Metroid game.
My bad, "side-story" then, which he did so he could write Other M and not be restricted by Retro's take, except Retro did a better job to connect Prime to the whole series(aka they didn't go crazy) while Other M was just worried about the baby and its connection to Fusion.
robor
Member
ALL Metroid is linear. Fusion is linear in a different way. It follows a different philosophy in design first seen in Metroid II (also in Wario Land).
Useless things? How do you mean? Yes, I will admit the biggest mistake in Fusion is that at the very last minute, it imitates Super's philosophical design at the end so you don't miss any of the items in the game. They should have just stuck with the lock-down exploration path that makes up 90% of the game. It is forgivable though.
evilromero
Member
As much as Other M disgusted me and I complained about its bastardization of the Metroid characters, I have to admit I had a lot of fun playing through most of the game. Mechanically they did some interesting things even if they weren't always executed that well. Where they messed up was the brain-dead exploration elements. It's like they were just token offerings to the fanbse, not really making sense within the setting.
I don't mind controlling Samus, in fact it was one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game. But for god sake please go with analog controls (dual for FPS missile shit). They just killed the experience with switching to missile mode.
I don't mind controlling Samus, in fact it was one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game. But for god sake please go with analog controls (dual for FPS missile shit). They just killed the experience with switching to missile mode.
I...can't really imagine how anyone who has played any metroid game ever would suggest that first person movement is what Metroid needs.
Sylverstone14
Member
Heh, isn't that what the Chinese said about Chairman Mao? (Didn't think that was such a widespread analogy. Professor uses it a ton in class.)
Besides that, I think that Sakamoto has done enough for Metroid. I feel that Other M had its strengths and weaknesses, and honestly, I'd like to see someone new take on the franchise (like Next Level).
ShadowgeistX
Member
I think he was the one who insisted on wiimote only controls as well? I'd say he ruined a bit more than 30% from that design decision alone. Tecmo got the short end of the stick on that one.
The gameplay was nice though, considering what they had to work with.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Maybe it has something to do with the Prime series being absolutely incredible. Just a hunch.
Their statement made me scratch my chin as well though.
Version 3.0
Member
It's true that Other M wasn't all bad, but 70/30? Hell no. Maybe 30/70. The story and presentation were terrible, but the game itself was mediocre, too. Possibly the worst part, though, were the controls, dumbed down to work on a Wii remote with so few buttons.
I'll forever mourn the possibility of a remote / nunchuck game with pointer aiming.
The basic premise is fine, though: 3D world, mostly 2D views, modeled for some exploration through gained (LOL unlocked) abilities. Start with that - which is basically the foundation of any Metroid game - and trash everything else.
I'll forever mourn the possibility of a remote / nunchuck game with pointer aiming.
The basic premise is fine, though: 3D world, mostly 2D views, modeled for some exploration through gained (LOL unlocked) abilities. Start with that - which is basically the foundation of any Metroid game - and trash everything else.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It would have worked if he'd stuck to his original vision of having movement be entirely in 2D with a 3D camera a la Pandemonium!/Klonoa. But Team Ninja insisted on a 3D game and Sakamoto refused to budge on the controls, so it didn't turn out well. Personally I didn't have many problems with the controls at all though.
evilromero
Member
From Software (lol, I know) + Retro Studios
Giant beautiful open world to explore with tight Nintendo-like mechanics and design.
SerTapTap
Member
Prime is great but extremely different from the 2D games. The movement in the 2D games would be super weird in 3D. They are different, and Other M was good at showing how incompatible they are.
Out of Working Order
Member
I definitely agree that Other M was enjoyable in places. The combat and more athletic Samus worked brilliantly. A couple of the bosses were really well handled too.
There's a hell of a lot they'd have to rip out entirely though - so much so that it'd be unrecognisable as a direct continuation of Other M. I'd rather prefer to look at it as taking the combat system from the rest of the mess that is Other M and tailoring it for a fully 2D Metroid.
There's a hell of a lot they'd have to rip out entirely though - so much so that it'd be unrecognisable as a direct continuation of Other M. I'd rather prefer to look at it as taking the combat system from the rest of the mess that is Other M and tailoring it for a fully 2D Metroid.
John Bender
Banned
No, thanks
Fusion was awful, "computer says no", at least in Other M they had a human who said no.
That leaves a remake and Super Metroid, so just Super Metroid, which I'm willing to see as a fluke. A time where atmospheric worlds weren't really done; but that part is now done better by Retro imo.
That leaves a remake and Super Metroid, so just Super Metroid, which I'm willing to see as a fluke. A time where atmospheric worlds weren't really done; but that part is now done better by Retro imo.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Of all the crazy collaborations people propose, I think this would be THE one I would want to see.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Basically this.
Solid Samus
Banned
Other M had some really bad elements to its gameplay design. The control scheme was terrible. Combat design is only servicable - though utterly repetitive and lacking any semblance of depth or even real challenge thanks to hamfisted control limitations and the types of decisions that resulted. (Like 8 way, like auto-aim, like concentration, like mash-the-same-goddamn-dpad-you-use-to-move-to-also-godmodedodge-because-that's-good-design, etc.) Not to mention the level design, which is lacking, mostly linear, and featuring few reasons to tread off the beaten path, when you're even able to to begin with. I appreciate the 3rd person perspective and quick gameplay but I can't view Other M as a model for the Metroid series moving forward because the gameplay is...just not good enough to meet series standards. I could destroy this game without even bringing up its story.
Then I don't want to have a Metroid game without his input then. No matter how good the prime trilogy are,mother aren't what I'm looking for in a 3D Metroid game
Even if it's not nearly as good as Metroid game should be, I liked Other M. However, Sakamoto's vision and direction showed he doesn't understand what made Metroid fantastic in the first place. Honestly, Retro got Metroid perfectly, so even if I'd like to see them do other stuff, I think Metroid should stick with them.
Sakamoto is God-tier with Wario Ware, Rhythm Tengoku and so on, so I'd rather he keep doing games along those lines.
Sakamoto is God-tier with Wario Ware, Rhythm Tengoku and so on, so I'd rather he keep doing games along those lines.