Sometimes I load up Driveclub and just drive around in the rain because it looks so damn awesome. People get enjoyment in different ways.
The Order 1886 Review Thread
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Sometimes I load up Driveclub and just drive around in the rain because it looks so damn awesome. People get enjoyment in different ways.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
The difference is the highs are way higher in all of those other entertainment mediums. We don't have a Schindler's List. We just have a hundred of the Sharknados and the best we have isn't even close to the best there is in other mediums. The best video game stories are decent action movie scripts at best.
King Gilga
Member
No because it doesn't have the characters or story to compare.
this is an unfortunate side effect of making a game that is received poorly by its intended audience. that doesn't mean that criticism of a game should have that bias in mind and let it affect those critiques. no one is dancing in the street because people might lose their jobs. you really need to let that go.
There aren't that many in telltale games, the story is the story. They are still fun though.
FWIW (and I know this is a small sample size and is in no way indicative of the whole marketplace), The Order: 1886 was in the Top 10 top selling video games on Amazon for the week leading up to release and ever since the embargo lifted (and Amazon reviews have given the game 2.5/5.0 stars), it's still firmly in the top 10. Not sure how much reviews matter to the average gamer. I DO think the lack of multi / co-op will hurt long term sales as word of mouth will probably suffer a bit.
Some people like it and some people don't like it.
Wasn't exactly what I was saying, but for example, would you spend full price on Drive Club for the sole purpose of showing it off to someone else just for a bit?
And for the record, I do the exact same shit in Driveclub all the time XD
blacklotus
Member
Wrong thread sorry.
That's a great idea. And since they're tracking the price of the game through all of history, they can update the graphics/sound/gameplay scores to match the contemporary market as well!
The only time people feel value shouldn't be considered is when it hurts a game they love. If I paid for a full=price movie ticket to watch a 20-minute movie (regardless of quality), I wouldn't be happy. The fact that so many people are unhappy with the length of the game (and what you get in the time you do get to play) should tell you that it is important enough to be included in reviews.
No doubt. The same happened with The Walking Dead s1.
I have to admit that I was one of those people. But strangely, over the last couple of years, I've come to really like non-game games (interactive entertainment). I think it has to do with wanting more games that don't involved killing anything, or at least where killing is not the main way of interacting with the world. Boardgames/pnp are great for that, but I cannot play those more than once per week because I'm not in school anymore.
RipperGrim
Member
Out of all those mediums gaming is the youngest, so when we put the cream of the crop of movies which is going on to 100 years of development and books which is even older I think it's silly to even say games should just stop trying to have these kind of approaches to making games.
Also I can pretty much guarantee you that movies and books have lows that are lower than gaming because of this same fact.
To say games suck at stories in general is going too far because we have to then forget about all the times people have felt emotions because of games, every scene where you thought that was amazing or got happy or amazed at is part of the writing (Unless it's a glitch or something like that lol). There is brilliant writing in games and we must not forget that I think.
Kacho
Member
Probably. Much like you, I often look at reviews, watch gameplay, talk with friends/co-workers, etc and then make my decision based on all of that. But in some cases all I need are reviews if I already had a good idea about how I felt about a game leading up to the release.
For The Order: 1886, and I can't speak for others but I'm sure others would agree, just about everything I saw about the game leading up to the release looked bad. Only the graphics and setting jumped out at me. The gameplay that was shown, like the E3 2014 demo, looked attrocious. Once reviews dropped it was easy to see that many reviewers had issues with the same things I was skeptical about leading up to release. All I needed in this case was to read a few reviews to confirm that this game wasn't for me.
This game is pretty slow to get going, in chapter 4 now and it feels like I have barely fired a gun yet. <Exposition> <Exposition> <Exposition> <QTE> <Exposition> <Exposition> <Action> <Exposition> <Exposition> <Exposition> <Exposition> <Action interlude> <QTE> <Exposition> <Exposition>.
Superbly well made though, just not a traditional video game.
Superbly well made though, just not a traditional video game.
It's either selling PS4s or causing owners to sell their PS4s out of sheer despair.
Depending on who you ask.
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
I really liked the Kinda Funny review on this game. As a graphics whore myself, I still really want to play this, but paying 60 is just too much. I feel bad for Ready At Dawn too. It has to be rough seeing a game you've been working on since like 2010 get absolutely destroyed by most reviews. Has to be a shitty week for those guys. Hopefully they come back and make a killer 1887 game.
Try solitaire games. Better than this shiny shit digital games are tending to be at the moment.
Yup.
If there are people who enjoy making something, and others who enjoy using it, and it hurts no one; wanting it to fail is petty and sad.
MegaSackman
Member
Why so offended? Why do you care? I wonder...
He referenced board games, why do you care.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Come on, Amazon.
Bring the game to my house.
I wanna play it after work.
Bring the game to my house.
I wanna play it after work.
I've played almost all of the Telltale Games out there. There's an illusion of choice and that's it. If a character is going to die, they die. The choices that you make ultimately don't matter in the scope of the narrative. A lot of times I'll piss a character off and I'll get a "Steve will remember that" notification and they die moments later.
Regardless of opinion, that's the mindset I'm taking into The Order. More of a hands-off story driven game, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it much more with that expectation.
Exclusive? Because it's very pretty and was very hyped, so it's clearly either the best or worst game ever.
Also Kane and Lynch was the closest to Freedom Fighters 2 we will probably get.
And it sucked :/
First time? Did they give you the "We'll only do this ONCE" warning?
I accidentally pre-ordered the PS3 version of Dragon Age instead of the PS4 version... something I figured would be a no-questions-asked resolution over the phone... but they still guilt-tripped me for it...
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
That's silly.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
This is a terrible argument. Video games have also had the benefit of looking at those 100's of years of storytelling in other mediums and can use that to help their writing. The people who were figuring out how to write the first books didn't have hundreds of years of books to look back on to see what makes a good story. Of course their first efforts were probably a little rough.
But when video games are trying to emulate movies in their writing, and have decades upon decades of reference material to what makes a good movie script, and they still come out with what is mostly schlock, then I don't think they should be getting the benefit of the doubt.
I also disagree that there is a lot of brilliant writing. All of those emotions you're talking about have nothing to do with writing for me. I've never gotten choked up by someone dying in a video game, and if I'm happy with the success of a character, it's because I was the one controlling him and driving him to that success and I feel a sense of accomplishment because of it. Most cut scenes in video games are so bad that I can't wait until they're over so I can get back to the game.
It helped hurt the Sonic franchise into being a waste of an IP. That's the problem. The success of things means it's the approval of things, and if the industry thinks that people want games that have many bad aspects because they keep selling well, they'll continue making games that way until people stop buying them.
Yes, we can emphathise with bad writing. That, in fact, is what saves videogame writing, I think. It's just good enough that instead of being obviously laughable we can venerate these shoddily written plots, stilted dialogue, and the endless 'and so it begins...'-esque cliches.
I mean, 50 Shades of Grey has become a worldwide phenomenon despite having the literary quality of, well, literally fanfiction. I'm sure that there are women out there for whom Christian Grey is the most significant male fictional character ever written, but that doesn't make it good literature, it just means that humans have near-limitless imaginations and can empathise with extremely poor writing.
This, of course, is magnified by videogames like Mass Effect, because Shephard isn't just Shephard, he's your Shephard, and chances are he looks different to mine, he has a different backstory, and he tackled situations differently. But at the end of the day, the writing in Mass Effect still makes the bad episodes of Battlestar Galactica look fucking amazing.
LOL they did the same to me when I accidently bought the Destiny Season Pass on PS3 instead of PS4, they did still refund it though thankfully.
and there are always forum threads in AV places about which blurays to buy to show off their new projector/TV/sound system. They don't care if the movie is any good, it just has to be eye candy.
Melchiah
Member
If it's really only about the quality of the games, why is it exactly that cinematic games, even the definition itself, tend to raise such vitriol even in their early stages, when it's still a coin toss between a good or bad end product?
To my recollection, Ready at Dawn representatives never actually said the gameplay is an afterthought.
Shadow The Hedgehog is a 45-51% game. If anything that's around 60-70% at Metacritic is something that should fail, or not be made in the first place, it would mean that many games would be erased from existence from now on. I find that a rather depressing thought.
.
People like to hate on the term ludo-narrative dissonance, but it is a real problem in trying to get people emotionally involved in game stories. I think that's why games like gtav succeed, because the gameplay reinforces the narrative: sociopathic narcissists doing what they do. It didn't work as well in IV because Nico wasn't that, and so the gameplay was in conflict. I personally hate pretending to be a sociopathic narcissist, so I enjoyed IV and hated V even though it was chocOblock full of l-n dissonance.
Comparing mediums isn't a great idea, but if you're going to: If you take the Atari 2600 as the beginning of gaming as a medium and not just one off experiments and The Story of the Kelly Gang as the first true feature film (with similar parameters), we should have had our Citizen Kane by now. 38 years between 2600 and now compared to 35 to get to Kane. Problem lies far more in gaming (as a whole) trying to emulate other mediums and not build it's own identity. This could tie into why The Order is getting a lot of flak, people might be fed up of these attempts for "the cinematic experience" and The Order walked in the door to find a shotgun pointed at it.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
I'll just post what I wrote a while back on this very thread, in support of what you're saying.
I agree about your point on game time/value. I've just seen so much being said about it that I was curious. I'm still on the fence on whether to get it or not. I just don't want to regret getting it.
I like to use GAF as a good barometer if I should pick up a game. That may not be the best idea to do though ha ha. The last time I went against GAF, I totally regretted picking up Watch Dogs.
A developer wouldn't say that explicitly, even if it were true. It does seem to be the case though, with The Order.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Because they're focusing on an aspect of video games that traditionally has not been done well, and takes a lot of the focus off what makes video games distinctive as a medium.
So again, you're left with developers who are not taking advantage of the things that make video games stand out as a medium in the first place, and instead are focusing on aspects that they aren't even doing very well.
It's like me writing and drawing my own comic book, but choosing to draw every character as a stick figure, while simultaneously also writing a bad story for those stick figures to act out. I put far too much focus on one aspect of the medium and did not do it well, and while doing so, I did a huge disservice to the other aspects of the medium simply because I didn't want to bother with them.
Maybe my comic book would have been more well received if I took the time and made some nice art that paired with my bad story, and maybe the Order would have been more well received if they had some engaging game play to balance out what everyone seems to be calling a mediocre story.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I was going to wait a few weeks since every PS4 game I've bought so far went on sale for like half off a week after I bought them, but the unskippable cutscenes take out any chance at a purchase for me. On top of the rigidity of the game itself, that takes away any replayability. I'm renting.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
So Ryse came to the PS4 finally?
Melchiah
Member
I personally play both kind of games, story-driven and those with more old school gameplay mechanics. Variety is always good for me, as it would bore me to death to play only games of a certain type. Jumping from Resogun to TLOU, and from Resident Evil to something like this, keeps the hobby more refreshing to me.
nhlducks35
Member
As soon as Game Director Dana Jan said this I had no hope for the game
Fancy Clown
Member
I agree with you that those things are not problems on there own. Black bars are whatever, linear games are great, and length doesn't matter, but rather the quality of the experience. It's just that how those things factor into the finished game's design are highly problematic to the point where they do become issues.
I also agree that dog piling on the game for some of that stuff before it released is silly, but the same goes for any game prior to release. But the complaints leveled at the gameplay and story trailers/demos that were shown absolutely could be criticized and the critiques leveled at what was shown prior to release ended up being problems the whole game had.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
They might not have said it was an afterthought but it definitely seems they went "Good enough". The shooting parts are the bare minimum of what could be considered passable by 2015 standards.
Games don't have to be about gameplay. It isn't about what you can do with your thumbs. I enjoyed Heavy Rain for the experience it was. Same with old school adventure games. Games don't have to be a challenge of your dexterity, or these mechanically innovative products.
But you can't be dismissive of player interaction. You simply can't. That's what this medium is all about. That seems to be The Order: 1886's sin, it wants to do what it does in spite of the player, not for the player.
This isn't a case of "Cinematic games are bad!". It's a case of "At least pretend you want to be part of this medium". You can be influenced by cinema and create a great third-person shooter, like Max Payne 3 or The Last of Us. It seems The Order doesn't do that.
But you can't be dismissive of player interaction. You simply can't. That's what this medium is all about. That seems to be The Order: 1886's sin, it wants to do what it does in spite of the player, not for the player.
This isn't a case of "Cinematic games are bad!". It's a case of "At least pretend you want to be part of this medium". You can be influenced by cinema and create a great third-person shooter, like Max Payne 3 or The Last of Us. It seems The Order doesn't do that.
Byron Bluth
Banned
This game is in no way a fucking 2/10 or 5/10
I'm having a lot of fun with it. The reviews had me worried the controls and gunplay would be poor but it isn't. It's fluid and fun and the weapons are fantastic! I wanted to use all of them. Unlike most games where there is one go to weapon for the whole game.
Reviewers are fucked.
I'm having a lot of fun with it. The reviews had me worried the controls and gunplay would be poor but it isn't. It's fluid and fun and the weapons are fantastic! I wanted to use all of them. Unlike most games where there is one go to weapon for the whole game.
Reviewers are fucked.
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