It's an action game not a sports game.
But some people won't have the same opinion as you. Just because you dislike a game does not mean it shouldn't be made. There are plenty of games I dislike and I will never play. But you do not see me saying such games should never be made.
I didn't say they were. That's why I said companies should keep making these games if people want them. I was just challenging the idea that change should be accepted simply because it's change. That's nonsense. If people don't like the change, or feel that the change is doing a disservice to the medium, then people shouldn't just accept it on the basis that it's something different.
I stand by that comment. That interview with The Order director or whatever is just embarassing to this industry. I'm not against cinematic games, I loved TLOU, I'm against bad cinematic games that are barely interactive.
Are you kidding? This is just as close minded as the people who champion narrative over gameplay. I don't know if you are saying this to be a character, but the idea that games should NOT serve as a vehicle to deliver a compelling narrative is really shallow.
We have excellent examples of titles that have both gameplay and story nailed.
The bolded I feel aren't and should not be a problem for this kind of game. It's the unbolded that is the biggest issue for me. That's what I am worried about.
Wow, this post just plain sucks.
That kind of mentality students growth and is beyond ignorant. It really disappoints me to see someone cheer on failure.
Look at it this way son, no medium ever began as it is now. They all changed at one point to accommodate more features that fundamentally changed them to give us what they are to day. To deny the interactive medium this is irresponsible and close minded.
We need variety, otherwise we are are playing the same Mario that were used to.
And I want to add that I never said I was happy to see the game be bad. I said I was happy to see the press reviewing the game for what it is. An empty shell that brings nothing new to the cinematic style of gaming. They could have expanded on the TLOU formula but no, it's a short, barely interactive mess stuck in the past.
Well this finally killed the hype. It was a pain to see the excitement based on the graphics and the setting alone. That said I had the same first impressions with TLOU and I was wrong. Not this time
Hear, hear! It always amazes me how close-minded people can be to think variety is bad, and something that threatens what they hold dear.
That's kind of what I'm expecting. I'm also one of those guys who happened to enjoy Ryse for what it was. Though I'm also very understanding why it got the scores that it got.Just bought the game.
Ryse was a delectable guilty pleasure of mine. A stiff and melee Gears with a lot of eye candy and a telegraphed yet entertaining story and beat.
Hope the Order delivers the same conflicted but ultimately pleasurable thing.
I think it should be made, I just hope it doesn't catch on and influence other developers in the industry.I was more on about the post you quoted. Which the person seems to think just because he/she thinks it is a bad game it shouldn't be made. If people buy it then of course it should be made. We will see how The Order does.
I'm not saying these types of games shouldn't be made, in fact I said exactly the opposite, i'm all for games that do something different.
The Order isn't doing anything different and the things it did focus on such as the story were pretty bad, it deserves to be lambasted. If you or others like it, great, but there have been and will be much better attempts at storytelling that what The Order produced.
Hear, hear! It always amazes me how close-minded people can be to think criticism is bad, and something that threatens what they hold dear.
I think it should be made, I just hope it doesn't catch on and influence other developers in the industry.
ftfy
cuts both ways
I think it should be made, I just hope it doesn't catch on and influence other developers in the industry.
I haven't played it yet so wouldn't know. I will say how I feel when I play the game. What I was trying to say is some people (not including you) go with the view that their opinion is 100% correct and every one else who disagrees is wrong. At the end of the day every one has a different opinion on what they like or dislike. People should be able to see it from both sides, but it seems some can't.
The Order just seems like a game that would prefer that you didn't interact with it. That's what irks me.
Just beat it.
The idea that anybody can or should hold an authority on what does or does not belong in a medium of creative expression because it doesn't fit their personal taste is both frightening and depressing. It has a place because it was made. No other justification is needed, not for this or any other title, and not ever.
Well, I cant speak to length yet, goin to pick it up in an hour. But everything I have heard in terms of reasoning is that there was no desire to create filler.Length is more of a modifier. Appropriate use can make a good game great, or a bad game worse. And it seems to be the latter in this case
Well, this post plain sucks as well. If every variety of Mario succeeded we would have been playing Hotel Mario sequels, and thank god it failed. Change for progress is good; change for regression is bad. We have already been through the bullshit that was the Interactive Movie period that was the 90s, we didn't need that shit again, and the reviews are proof of it. I'm glad that the reviewers chose not to support it and I hope the industry won't embrace it. Let it crash and burn.
How does the Order equate to variety? It's overly linear, unintelligent and does nothing new and aspires to nothing fresh or original.
We need variety, in a meaningful way, not just for the sake of it.
This medium isn't at its infancy so I don't know why you're talking about its beginning.
You talk about an interactive medium but this is a medium all about interactivity and this game sacrifices that in a big way just to enhance the experience by mimicking another one.
The Order has failed and for good reason. Let it die and let RAD go back to the drawing board.
There's a difference between criticism, and wanting something to fail.
So far ND is the only one who has been able to consistently offer those moments and make it powerful, with respect to ND, I'd like to see someone else succeed in creating a "playable blcokbuster."
Yeah, but the difference is I'm not wanting people to lose their job as a way to validate my opinion.
I get not liking things, believe me. But hoping something crashes and burns in order to send a Mafia-style message to others is a new kind of venom.
Just beat it.
It really is interesting to see how all over the place the reviews are with the title.
If you want it to fail because of the criticisms against it I don't see why it's a problem. Would it have been bad when I wanted the One to fail because of the terrible decisions put in place by Microsoft?There's a difference between criticism, and wanting something to fail.
I really, really hate digging through peoples post history and seeing other people do the same, but in this particular case I did because I remembered a post you made earlier in the thread:
Between the two posts in question, it really does seem you're happy for it to do bad, and even wanted TLOU to do bad. And for the record, I'm not defending The Order at all, I would've preferred for it to be good but this had moved off my buy list weeks ago, it just seems like you're backpedaling.
no need to be condescending dude. people have different opinions. his is as justified as yours, even if you feel you are somehow above him.
I also don't feel like a linear TPS is a good thing to point to as variety. Something like No Man's Sky is important for variety as it actually goes off the well beaten path, The Order on the other hand is following a well-trodden path.
Thats kinda what i'm expecting too. I enjoyed Ryse, didn't think it was great or bad, and i'm picking up The Order this weekend and expect to enjoy it also in the same way I enjoyed Ryse. They just seem like very similar games imo.Just bought the game.
Ryse was a delectable guilty pleasure of mine. A stiff and melee Gears with a lot of eye candy and a telegraphed yet entertaining story and beat.
Hope the Order delivers the same conflicted but ultimately pleasurable thing.
All that is wrong with NeoGAF.
Just bought the game.
Ryse was a delectable guilty pleasure of mine. A stiff and melee Gears with a lot of eye candy and a telegraphed yet entertaining story and beat.
Hope the Order delivers the same conflicted but ultimately pleasurable thing.
I always say this: "Reviews are bullshit. They are an individual's opinion. You should always form your own opinion. If you are not sure about buying day 1, wait a month or 2 and it will drop price." I will play the Order whether is a rental soon or a price drop later because I would like to see what this game is about.
well you'd have to talk to that poster specifically but I doubt he solely wants the game to fail, although that may be an unfortunate side effect of why he is pleased. he seems to be pleased that reviewers are calling a spade a spade. maybe that can be seen as harsh but I don't really think it is. middling games being reviewed as middling is a good thing for the medium in the long run.
If you want it to fail because of the criticisms against it I don't see why it's a problem. Would it have been bad when I wanted the One to fail because of the terrible decisions put in place by Microsoft?
If it really is a shallow, short game that doesn't even succeed in the areas it put the most focus on, then yes, I hope it fails. Because I don't want other developers in the industry seeing that success and trying to replicate it so in five years everyone is chasing the shallow, short, cinematic dollar.
You should always want bad things to fail, if they don't fail, it means they're probably succeeding, and if they're succeeding, it means other people are probably going to try to emulate it.
Agreed!
Same, buying it as well! Dont give a sh....t about the complaints! I enjoy visual stories , even if limited gameplay!
Yeah, but the difference is I'm not wanting people to lose their job as a way to validate my opinion.
I get not liking things, believe me. But hoping something crashes and burns in order to send a Mafia-style message to others is a new kind of venom.
Lol. Wtf?I thought dragon age was boring as all hell
If I worked at IGN and they gave me that game to review, I could write a 10 page article about how boring that game was to me and gave it a solid 5.
Guess what, that review would be inaccurate, it would be writing a review for a game I had no intention to play
Last of Us, beautiful game, extremely over rated to me.
Guess what my opinion does not matter, and neither do these 'scores'
Yet if someone did not pick up TLOU or Dragon Age because I did not like it, I would label that person as someone incapable of thinking for themselves.
The problem here, in this thread, in this little petri dish, is people confusing opinion for facts. Oh I know I know 'people just say they like it, justify their purchase' whatever spin you can put on it and helps you sleep at night, but you have to realize, people do enjoy it, are questioning the super critical reviews ect ect.
Seems like he had a similar desire concerning TLOU as well, so I don't think the sentiment is born out of bad reviews, more like it's been there before they appeared. After all his post was an answer to one where the developers' comments from June 2014 were mentioned.
Oh, shit, I've gotta hear what you think, Pkm!! You always have really in-depth takes on the games you play, so I'm really interested to see what you have to say about it. Just woke up, so I'm gonna start playing it now and will visit the thread again upon completion!
Something that kind of irks me is people pushing or defending 'cinematic presentation' but not good writing to match it. There's not really much point in having 'cinematic presentation' if the writing isn't at least as good as a Hollywood blockbuster. And honestly I can count the number of games on one hand that have 'cinematic presentation' and average summer blockbuster-quality scriptwriting, and three of them are Naughty Dog games. It feels overwhelmingly like trying to run before we can walk to want to make games into movies before they have narratives that can support it.
Agreed!
Same, buying it as well! Dont give a sh....t about the complaints! I enjoy visual stories , even if limited gameplay!
Something that kind of irks me is people pushing or defending 'cinematic presentation' but not good writing to match it. There's not really much point in having 'cinematic presentation' if the writing isn't at least as good as a Hollywood blockbuster. And honestly I can count the number of games on one hand that have 'cinematic presentation' and average summer blockbuster-quality scriptwriting, and three of them are Naughty Dog games. It feels overwhelmingly like trying to run before we can walk to want to make games into movies before they have narratives that can support it.
There's a difference between emergent, interactive storytelling in videogames, and a game with half of its content being unskippable cinematics. The later is not the future.
A good gameplay foundation also helps.
Something that kind of irks me is people pushing or defending 'cinematic presentation' but not good writing to match it. There's not really much point in having 'cinematic presentation' if the writing isn't at least as good as a Hollywood blockbuster. And honestly I can count the number of games on one hand that have 'cinematic presentation' and average summer blockbuster-quality scriptwriting, and three of them are Naughty Dog games. It feels overwhelmingly like trying to run before we can walk to want to make games into movies before they have narratives that can support it.