The Witcher 3 runs at 1080p ULTRA ~60 fps on a 980

oh....... :_:

Sorry, I know it's a tough pill to swallow taking into account the price of the original Titan but you have to understand the Titan tier is hardly for value oriented people.

If that helps, there is no single GPU (not even the Titan X) guaranteed to "max out" 2017 games at 60fps.

That's why PC gaming is so awesome : it's not arbitrarily limited by a piece of hardware, ultra settings continually evolve.
 
Bad optimization.

That's BS. If a GF980 can't get a game to run at 60FPS on Ultra it doesn't always mean the game is badly optimized. It can mean that the GPU is too weak to do that.
That's why downgrades happen - you're still playing on Ultra (it says it in the options menu!), but the Ultra details were cut.
 
Sorry, I know it's a tough pill to swallow taking into account the price of the original Titan but you have to understand the Titan tier is hardly for value oriented people.

If that helps, there is no single GPU (not even the Titan X) guaranteed to "max out" 2017 games at 60fps.

That's why PC gaming is so awesome : it's not arbitrarily limited by a piece of hardware, ultra settings continually evolve.
Yeah, i was just hoping to go a little longer. (i built my rig in aug 2013)
Guess i should start saving for something new. lol
 
Yeah, i was just hoping to go a little longer. (i built my rig in aug 2013)
Guess i should start saving for something new. lol

Only if you want to run games at max settings. This is absolutely not "required" in the broad sense since you can lower settings and get a great looking and performing game.

As I said ultra settings are there to drive GPU demand, they are not designed to run at 60fps on older hardware.
 
Only if you want to run games at max settings. This is absolutely not "required" in the broad sense since you can lower settings and get a great looking and performing game.

As I said ultra settings are there to drive GPU demand, they are not designed to run at 60fps on older hardware.
True, but i like running games at max and feeling good about myself (because i'm insecure. lol)

Maybe i'll try turning down the AA, that's supposed to help.
 
That's BS. If a GF980 can't get a game to run at 60FPS on Ultra it doesn't always mean the game is badly optimized. It can mean that the GPU is too weak to do that.
That's why downgrades happen - you're still playing on Ultra (it says it in the options menu!), but the Ultra details were cut.

If the game looks incredible its understandable that the GPU can't do that, but this game looks average, so if a 980 can't run it in 60 FPS its bad optimized, its obvious really.
 
Fine, but be prepared to upgrade your GPU on a yearly basis.
No no no, i wasn't yelling at you or anything like that, i was saying it in a jokey way, sorry i offended you.

I can't afford to upgrade, i was only able to build this rig because i got a wee bit of inheritance money.
 
No no no, i wasn't yelling at you or anything like that, i was saying it in a jokey way, sorry i offended you.

I can't afford to upgrade, i was only able to build this rig because i got a wee bit of inheritance money.

I don't think he was offended, just stating the facts.
 
No no no, i wasn't yelling at you or anything like that, i was saying it in a jokey way, sorry i offended you.

I can't afford to upgrade, i was only able to build this rig because i got a wee bit of inheritance money.

I did not take it as an offence. :)
But honestly you PC is more than fine, just upgrade the GPU is you feel like it but you can keep everything else.
 
I did not take it as an offence. :)
But honestly you PC is more than fine, just upgrade the GPU is you feel like it but you can keep everything else.
cool cool.
i'm probably gonna upgrade when star citizen comes out, then try to get something to max it out. (yeah right. lol)

Have a great weekend.
 
I'm hoping for 60 fps on my 680. I can live with medium/high settings. So long as I get my fluid 60 fps gameplay, I'm fine.
 
If the game looks incredible its understandable that the GPU can't do that, but this game looks average, so if a 980 can't run it in 60 FPS its bad optimized, its obvious really.

It looks average now. Remember the first presentations of the game? Optimizations happened, so that people can play on "Ultra".

Btw. graphics isn't the only thing that taxes the GPU.
 
My 2600k and 970 will rock this game then :)
Its not a game that needs 60 frames imo, so i can crank up AA (does the game support MSAA?).

It looks average now. Remember the first presentations of the game? Optimizations happened, so that people can play on "Ultra".

Btw. graphics isn't the only thing that taxes the GPU.
Do we have side-by-side pictures from the Ultra mode vs. earlier material? Same weather conditions etc...
Optimization sure happens, i am curious what they changed.
 
Legit question, and not a stealth brag/troll post.

will my rig be able to do ultra60 ?
I7 4770k oc'd @4.1 mhz. (fuck you silicon lottery)
GTX titan.
16gb ram @1866 mhz.

I'd definitely say you'll be able to ride comfortably at around 0.02-0.04 FPS. Of course that's just a guess; we'll know for sure when the game is out.
 
Do we have side-by-side pictures from the Ultra mode vs. earlier material? Same weather conditions etc...
Optimization sure happens, i am curious what they changed.

They don't show the same areas as the earlier footage on purpose. Like walking through the village with the kid jumping, or walking into that big down, or walking through that swamp. Because then we WOULD compare and most likely be able to tell the differences.
 
My 2600k and 970 will rock this game then :)
Its not a game that needs 60 frames imo, so i can crank up AA (does the game support MSAA?).


Do we have side-by-side pictures from the Ultra mode vs. earlier material? Same weather conditions etc...
Optimization sure happens, i am curious what they changed.

First AA option I would use is DSR.
 
They don't show the same areas as the earlier footage on purpose. Like walking through the village with the kid jumping, or walking into that big down, or walking through that swamp. Because then we WOULD compare and most likely be able to tell the differences.
From what i can tell the small settlement in the newest gameplay trailer looks very similar to the one with the kid in the VGX trailer, looks like the same region to me. On the other hand, the mill may be an art asset that they reuse a lot so we cant be sure.
The only downgrade i could spot right now would be the vegetation density, now you can see individual patches of grass while before it was dense enough to make that less visible at least. It makes sense to reduce the vegetation density though, just from a performance perspective. Doesn´t the Ultra mode make the vegetation more dense again?

/edit: Even when they downgraded the vegetation, the game still looks fuck awesome. Seriously. And its open world.
 
Is this "I must be able to ultra everything or its bad optimization" a new trend? I remember when ultra was supposed to be extreme in order to allow the game to look better with future hardware
 
First AA option I would use is DSR.

If this game does have MSAA, I would turn that on first. It should be, given what we know, rather efficient.
Is this "I must be able to ultra everything or its bad optimization" a new trend? I remember when ultra was supposed to be extreme in order to allow the game to look better with future hardware

The "Ultra or die" crowd, seems to be from newer PC gamers.
 
MSAA is still shit compared to SMAA in perf-quality ratio.
Hell, in Unity even FXAA looks much better than MSAA and runs infinitely better.

The best would be if crytek's temporal SMAA was implemented, it was flawless in Ryse with almost no perf hit.
 
MSAA is still shit compared to SMAA in perf-quality ratio.
Hell, in Unity even FXAA looks much better than MSAA and runs infinitely better.
Temporal stability says hi. It costs more and delivers more, simple as that.
A combination is a good thing when the blur is not overdone.
 
MSAA is still shit compared to SMAA in perf-quality ratio.
Hell, in Unity even FXAA looks much better than MSAA and runs infinitely better.


The best would be if crytek's temporal SMAA was implemented, it was flawless in Ryse with almost no perf hit.
Well that game is deferred, so its performance hit is rather understandable. It also appears to have a shitty resolve.

MSAA, when in a forward renderer and implemented correctly, should be rather fantastic and definitely not as heavy as in BF4 or Unity.
 
Is this "I must be able to ultra everything or its bad optimization" a new trend? I remember when ultra was supposed to be extreme in order to allow the game to look better with future hardware

It's not new unfortunately, I distinctively remember similar echos around Crysis' release.
Entitlement is platform agnostic.
 
MSAA is a better option for new games IMO. DSR is a perfomance killer, even on SLI setups.

Sure it's a performance killer, but it's also the best AA solution available. DSR is one of the reasons I bought a 980. Downsampling games to 1080p just does so much more to overall IQ in comparison to "standard" AA techniques. I also apply DSR to new games, but 60 fps isn't a requirement for me either. I'd rather play a game at a downsampled 1620p with 35 fps than have 60 fps at native 1080p.
 
Sure it's a performance killer, but it's also the best AA solution available. DSR is one of the reasons I bought a 980. Downsampling games to 1080p just does so much more to overall IQ in comparison to "standard" AA techniques. I also apply DSR to new games, but 60 fps isn't a requirement for me either. I'd rather play a game at a downsampled 1620p with 35 fps than have 60 fps at native 1080p.
Not gonna happen.

I'm running GTX970 @1350Mhz in SLI and the most important thing to me is a steady framerate of 60fps. I'm only using DSR or SSAA in older games like Metro or Tomb Raider.
 
Downsampling is a very inefficient use of samples though. I wish games would just support SGSSAA. It's not that hard.

Anyway, with my hardware in Witcher 3 I'll very likely have to stick with FXAA at 1440p.
 
Not gonna happen.

I'm running GTX970 @1350Mhz in SLI and the most important thing to me is a steady framerate of 60fps. I'm only using DSR or SSAA in older games like Metro or Tomb Raider.

SLI 970's? Sounds pretty great to me. Don't you have a ton of overhead though if you don't DSR at all? I mean, with that setup you could probably pull off a little DSR and still maintain 60 fps.
 
Digital Foundry's recent article about the 970 told me that MSAA is a terrible waste of resources in new games and should be avoided:

DF said:
Traditional MSAA is sometimes shoe-horned into recent titles, but even 2x MSAA can see a good 20-30 per cent hit to frame-rates - modern game engines based on deferred shading aren't really compatible with MSAA, to the point where many games now don't support it at all while others struggle. Take Far Cry 4, for example. During our Face-Off, we ramped up MSAA in order to show the PC version at its best. What we discovered was that foliage aliasing was far worse than the console versions (a state of affairs that persisted using Nvidia's proprietary TXAA) and the best results actually came from post-process SMAA, which barely impacts frame-rate at all - unlike the multi-sampling alternatives.

Looking to another title supporting MSAA - Assassin's Creed Unity - the table below illustrates starkly why multi-sampling is on the way out in favour of post-process anti-aliasing alternatives. Here, we're using GTX Titan to measure memory consumption and performance, the idea being to measure VRAM utilisation in an environment where GPU memory is effectively limitless - only it isn't. Even at 1080p, ACU hits 4.6GB of memory utilisation at 8x MSAA, while the same settings at 1440p actually see the Titan's prodigious VRAM allocation totally tapped out. The performance figures speak for themselves - at 1440p, only post-process anti-aliasing provides playable frame-rates, but even then, performance can drop as low as 20fps in our benchmark sample. In contrast, a recent presentation on Far Cry 4's excellent HRAA technique - which combines a number of AA techniques including SMAA and temporal super-sampling - provides stunning results with just 1.65ms of total rendering time at 1080p.

jpg


An illustration of how much GPU resources are sucked up by MSAA. As it is, only FXAA keeps ACU frame-rates mostly above the 30fps threshold and our contention is that GPU resources are better spent on tasks other than multi-sampling.

But here GAF is saying MSAA is efficient and awesome.

I'm confused.
 
If the game looks incredible its understandable that the GPU can't do that, but this game looks average, so if a 980 can't run it in 60 FPS its bad optimized, its obvious really.

you can measure performance, but claims of "bad optimization" are weak as hell without more backing than "the game looks average".

like, it makes an awful lot more sense to question why the game is running a given way than to claim there's some poorly-written code somewhere in a codebase you've never even seen. or maybe you could spend some time with the game trying to figure out why you think a GPU's power isn't being utilized in a way that you'd like it to be. which isn't the same thing as being "unoptimized", of course, but could explain why you don't think a game looks good enough to justify its performance.
 
Älg;156837241 said:
I'd definitely say you'll be able to ride comfortably at around 0.02-0.04 FPS. Of course that's just a guess; we'll know for sure when the game is out.
Didn't realise gaf had an open mic night. :P
 
Digital Foundry's recent article about the 970 told me that MSAA is a terrible waste of resources in new games and should be avoided:



But here GAF is saying MSAA is efficient and awesome.

I'm confused.

Forward shading is different from deferred shading (which is the most common nowadays).

Basically, in forward rendering, shading is coupled to fragments, which are pixels before they become pixels. MSAA works by generating extra fragments. In deferred shading, shading is uncoupled from fragments, and coupled to the final pixels instead. Since MSAA doesn't create extra pixels, deferred shading doesn't work with it. And the way they make it work renders it pointless. More expensive, lower quality.

Forward and deferred shading each have different pros and cons. A big pro to deferred shading is that you no longer have to perform expensive lighting calculations on every fragment (not all fragments become pixels, so this is a waste). This is why it is so common nowadays. But recently there are some clever ways to make forward shading viable, too.

This is the issue as I understand it, but someone will come along and correct me if I said something wrong, I'm sure.
 
Digital Foundry's recent article about the 970 told me that MSAA is a terrible waste of resources in new games and should be avoided:



But here GAF is saying MSAA is efficient and awesome.

I'm confused.

It really depends on your own preference and differ from title to title. Sometimes an SMAA/FXAA solution is better than MSAA and sometimes MSAA is way better that SMAA/FXAA. Having an FXAA on is more preferable than not having AA at all if you don't have the power to downsample. Etc.

Saying that MSAA is a waste of resources is stupid since MSAA does provide better edge AA than most of post AA solutions out there. It is more resource hungry than post AA of course. But if you have the power to spare MSAA can look much better than some FXAA.
 
What do you guys think a GTX 970, 16 gigs of ram, and a Core i7 4770 would get me? High and some Ultra @60 frames a sec? I want to hit the 60 frames.
 
Sorry, I know it's a tough pill to swallow taking into account the price of the original Titan but you have to understand the Titan tier is hardly for value oriented people.

If that helps, there is no single GPU (not even the Titan X) guaranteed to "max out" 2017 games at 60fps.

That's why PC gaming is so awesome : it's not arbitrarily limited by a piece of hardware, ultra settings continually evolve.
And how much does all this cost to have an awesome PC gaming experience?
 
And how much does all this cost to have an awesome PC gaming experience?

"Awesome" means different things to different people but it stands to reason that the ultimate gaming experience is not a realistic option for the majority of the PC gaming market.
Hence why graphical settings exist.
 
And how much does all this cost to have an awesome PC gaming experience?

You can't seem to see the forest for the trees.. What it all means is that you can decide the cost yourself and still get an awesome gaming experience in your range. You know; Flexibility..
 
"Awesome" means different things to different people but it stands to reason that the ultimate gaming experience is not a realistic option for the majority of the PC gaming market.
Hence why graphical settings exist.
How much did it cost you to have this "awesome" gaming experience?
 
How much did it cost you to have this "awesome" gaming experience?

I don't know when I should start counting, my PC is not pre-built. It's a machine I continually upgraded ever since 2010. I couldn't tell you how much I spent because I would need to remember every parts I bought and sold.

What I do know however, is that it's well worth it and I'll keep doing it. You see, cost-effectiveness is not arbitrarily defined. No doubt I must have spent more than a PS4 or Xbox One but when I'm looking at the result before my very eyes I really can't complain.

Selling my PS4/XBO was the best decision I could have ever made. ;)
 
everyone said:
Re MSAA: It depends on the game.

Got it.

It's not inefficient when you consider the fact it also improves texture quality.

Here's a comparison shot I made for FC4. Textures are drastically improved in 2880p vs. 1440p.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/105760

Holy shit! That's a gigantic improvement. I only compared textures in DSR in the first Bioshock and the difference in textures between 1080p and 4K was hardly noticeable at all, and made me thing the claim that it improves textures is exaggerated it. I realize now that it also depends on the game.
 
In regards to MSAA I find its cost simply too egregious to bother with it. I'm not a fan of FXAA to be honest but for its cost it's decent enough. SMAA is not perfect either but if I chose framerate (reasonably close to 60fps) then it's the best solution in my case.
My little 970 can handle 4xMSAA at 30fps with max settings but frankly I prefer the smoothness of higher framerates.

Feels good to have the choice and it's yet another reason why consoles simply don't cut it for me anymore, I can't stand having to make do with whatever devs have priorised. I like having the choice of my experience.
 
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