Being bad at fighting games is the single most frustrating thing in my gaming history
- Thread starter Dr_Boris_Goltz
- Start date
Combos. Combos. Combos.
Oh, and "1-frame links." That lead into: COMBOS.
Do Hayabusa Combo Training #2.
Press 1P+K to stun, then do 236T . 41236T . 698741236T quickly to pull off a throw combo command.
*brain melts*
ShinMaruku
Member
Now this is a nuanced way of looking at it.
I really think people are overlooking talent and lack of talent to making a top player. If a person who is a sf4 starter, and they became a top player, that is natural talent that is well above the average person.
This whole experience and practice thought process does not look into means, the practice environment a person has, their personality and their affinity to a game. It's never that simple.
Patience. I just don't have any patience to learn the game I guess and when I do I don't have patience to learn my opponent's behavior.
crimzonflame
Member
If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing.
TheDarkBites
Banned
Well, to be fair, MKX's netcode is pretty shitty and destroys timing for things you can do offline.
Dr_Boris_Goltz
Banned
If it's a video game.
Edit: Or more accurately, if it's supposed to be a fun diversion and I'm not having fun.
RiderKairuu
Member
I feel the same way but with shooters. Fighting games too..but also shooters.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
If you want to get good you need to spend the time to get good. There are plenty of guides out now and match videos to cut down learning time as well.
Some people enjoy challenge, I don't find the Ys games fun on anything other than Nightmare
Fighting games are the ultimate challenge because your opponent has the potential to become better than you with each passing second
Some people enjoy challenge, I don't find the Ys games fun on anything other than Nightmare
Fighting games are the ultimate challenge because your opponent has the potential to become better than you with each passing second
So Smash can go fuck itself?
If you do end up eventually picking up SFV, try to keep this in mind:
Combos are not the most important thing to learn.
(Or the most important thing you need to win)
Find a short simple one you can do consistently and then stick with that. It doesn't matter if it's not the best one you could be doing, don't worry about that while you're still new to the game.
It's more important to understand what your character can do. What happens when I press this button? Does it change when I also hold down to crouch? Which of these would be best to hit someone out of the air with? Does my character move quickly? Etc
Have a curiousity about your character and explore.
Consider every match as a chance for experimentation and don't take it too hard if you lose. After all you are, in a sense, still learning to walk. Nothing shameful about that. Everyone starts off crawling.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
The main thing is probably that none of my local friends are into them really. The only one who is constantly destroys me and gives terrible advice (or none at all), and I've learned close to nothing from playing him. So with so few friends into the genre, I don't feel like I have a huge motivation to get better. In contrast, my friends do play shooters and MOBAs, and I've felt sufficiently motivated to at least trying to get better.
Besides that, patience. I'll go into the tutorials and find myself getting more and more irate with each layer of elaboration in combos.
Get a 3d fighter or the next Soul Cal, they play completely differently and the combos aren't convoluted for most characters. The key to them is just learning how to block properly and from there playing around to learn when to do what attacks. You can honestly learn most of the moves in soul cal just by button mashing in particular ways.
Unknown Soldier
Member
"The only difference between you and LeBron James is practice and experience."
Come on people, do you really believe the stuff you say?
SquirrelSoup
Member
I do think hard work and dedication account for a lot though. Yeah, to be the very best in the world (at anything) you're going to need a lot of affinity for the activity in question.
But that's not where most people run into brick walls. If one is talking about getting 'decent' and not being such a victim when playing online matches with randoms-- I feel that is a hurdle you can clear without any talent at all. If you just want it enough.
Personally i think you only need one thing to slowly crawl out of the pit and get gud. When you lose to something, your first thought has to be "How can i stop that from happening again?". Not "that guy was just better than me, he must have put in a million hours", "that shit is cheap", "this game sucks" or any of the usual complaints.
The incremental skill improvements i can get from fighting games are what makes the genre my favorite. But as with anything, it's not for everyone.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yes, those two things are major. Don't shit on encouraging advice because you gave up, maybe play some arcana heart or Dengeki Bunko: Fighting Climax. Maybe you'll enjoy those.
You know Lebron James isn't a fighting game player, right? He plays basketball, a game where physical attributes impact your success literally ten thousand times as much as they do in Street Fighter. I'd assume you were just making a bad analogy if it weren't for the anime avatar.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Well, the difference there is it doesn't matter if you're tall or short in a FG. You need thumbs and a brain. That's it. After that, it's learning the system, getting your damage and playing as many people as possible.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Oh man, this is one of those shitty threads. Time to bail I guess.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I play everything, most people enjoy playing things in relation to what they like. Those are good games fyi
Look at the comparison he made and come up with a better explanation for it.
For what it's worth, I'm literally in a Guilty Gear Xrd lobby as I post in this thread.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I'll say that from the outside looking in, it can certainly seem that way. There's a temptation when you go into a game and get rekted to think "maybe I just need to figure out the combos and I could win!"
Plus the combos look plain cool.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Because combo videos are cool! Big damage = pro
Honestly it depends on the game and character
Zomba13
Member
The thing with me and fighting games is I like them but I'm not that good at them. I don't have anyone to play with because they suck at fighting games and I always beat them and that isn't fun for either player and playing online has you have to deal with lag and players of varying skill to where you could easily beat someone and they quit or you get owned so badly you quit because you aren't on their level yet.
You can always play and practice against the computer but eventually that gets boring once you get good enough. Like in Smash it was fun to play against lvl9 CPUs but eventually you get to the point where you can easily beat them with every character you think is fun to play as.
I'm not too good with combos because I can't reliably get them out when playing online due to latency. I'm enjoying MKX right now and playing on PC with Kung Jin (Bojutsu) and can do a 24% combo consistently but it's a super easy one to do and I kinda feel bad playing as him because he seems so over powered.
It's just so hard to find someone at your skill level in fighting games compared to other things. Like FPS games usually have you in a team environment so it evens out a bit and if it's a free for all then there are people that offer distractions and such that level the playing field a bit against high level players. Even when I used to go to a friends shop at lunch in school I still beat everyone at Guilty Gear and Smash bros and Soul Calibur. Only one I didn't do well at was King of Fighters but I've found that and Street Fighter to not really be my thing.
When I played MvC3 against a friend online and kept beating him he went away for a while, wouldn't play me and then came back after learning some big combos with sentinel and some other common picks and slaughtered me consistently with a few big combos and I wasn't good enough to block and counter. It got really boring for me then (like I imagine it was for him before he learnt some combos from youtube). Big combos and being able to consistently pull them off can really help you beat newer or casual players and those people then assume that you need that knowledge to win and that those that know those combos know the game.
You can always play and practice against the computer but eventually that gets boring once you get good enough. Like in Smash it was fun to play against lvl9 CPUs but eventually you get to the point where you can easily beat them with every character you think is fun to play as.
I'm not too good with combos because I can't reliably get them out when playing online due to latency. I'm enjoying MKX right now and playing on PC with Kung Jin (Bojutsu) and can do a 24% combo consistently but it's a super easy one to do and I kinda feel bad playing as him because he seems so over powered.
It's just so hard to find someone at your skill level in fighting games compared to other things. Like FPS games usually have you in a team environment so it evens out a bit and if it's a free for all then there are people that offer distractions and such that level the playing field a bit against high level players. Even when I used to go to a friends shop at lunch in school I still beat everyone at Guilty Gear and Smash bros and Soul Calibur. Only one I didn't do well at was King of Fighters but I've found that and Street Fighter to not really be my thing.
When I played MvC3 against a friend online and kept beating him he went away for a while, wouldn't play me and then came back after learning some big combos with sentinel and some other common picks and slaughtered me consistently with a few big combos and I wasn't good enough to block and counter. It got really boring for me then (like I imagine it was for him before he learnt some combos from youtube). Big combos and being able to consistently pull them off can really help you beat newer or casual players and those people then assume that you need that knowledge to win and that those that know those combos know the game.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Mainly because they watch streams and they hear the commentators freaking out over game winning combos.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Yes, this too.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
I feel you op, I'm stuck on GG SPs on some of the fighters that you can't win by button smashing or technique spamming
Also my life in DotA
Also my life in DotA
Have you tried looking for/starting a weekly meet-up for fighting games?
That's silly, though. Knowing combos doesn't explain why the opponent is able to land a combo on you in the first place. If you're losing because you're constantly getting hit, knowing combos doesn't help you.
Well, I used to play KoF99 and 98 at an arcade when I was a kid, so with that little experience I decided to buy Skullgirls for PC and a used arcade stick a few months ago, completed the tutorials and finished the game once, went online and found a few people at my level that were fun to fight, then I found a compatriot with like 12 ping, the guy kick the living shit out of me, I chatted with him after that and asked "Are you using a pad or a stick?", and he said "no, just my 5 bucks keyboard".
After that I played for a few more days, but I just don't have the time or the patience to master a game that needs both.
So I get you OP, it's really frustrating.
After that I played for a few more days, but I just don't have the time or the patience to master a game that needs both.
So I get you OP, it's really frustrating.
knowing combos is kind of baseline stuff but a player with a good handle over the neutral game and good understanding of player habits is gonna do better over a combo vid maker any day of the week.
Zomba13
Member
I haven't but it's something I could do I suppose. Never really thought about it before.
ShinMaruku
Member
Try practicing chunking. You are looking at the combo too large your brain will drive you made. It's like a phone number it's 10 numbers, the brain can struggle but you chunk it into 3 numbers for area code 3 other numbers than the 4 last numbers and your brain puts it into 3 chunk 3 chunk and 4 end. So for that 1P+K then just use the stick the do the Halg circle forward then finish the other part of the circle all in one motion. Then you just did a Izuna
It's honestly the best way to play and learn about fighting games.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I was exaggerating to make a point, but if you want to limit it to strictly gaming, let me know when you become a professional Starcraft player in Korea just from practice and experience and I'll believe what you say.
The Korean SC player analogy is probably a good one here, because those SC pro players are doing 300-400+ things with their mouse every minute. You have a train a lot to become a pro SC player and that's where practice and experience come in, but if anyone could do it, the pros in Korea wouldn't make the bank they do.
My point is that fighting games require a certain amount of natural talent and ability, especially with regards to reflexes and ability to perform complicated finger movements perfectly with exactly the right timing. If anyone could do it, the FGC would be a lot larger than it is today.
SquirrelSoup
Member
Well. The games themselves focus on those, because a combo tutorial is so much easier to craft than anything deeper.
Combos are also the thing most easily learned by yourself when you take a break between getting beat up on. And a lot of games do reward combos a lot. Even if i play by just spazzing around, if i only need to hit you twice to win i'm definitely going to see some positive results occasionally.
Also, getting combo'd to death by someone, just floating in the air and getting mauled, is the moment during the match at which you feel most helpless and weak so it kinda sticks with you i think.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I didn't say it actually made sense. I was explaining the thought process that a lot of people have when they watch flashy gameplay and think that their game would be upped by adding some flashiness. It doesn't help that a lot of tutorials come down to combo tuts, giving a perception of that being what's important to learn.
I suck at them too. I'm good against my friends and look like a god to them because I'm decent against them and the computer, but put me against a real player online and I will get demolished.
I've given up playing online I don't do it anymore for fighting games unless it's with a friend. I don't have the time to put it to get good enough to play at that level, as I most quickly through games.
I love playing them but I never play them for too long. I'm already done with MKX, I got my fill.
I've given up playing online I don't do it anymore for fighting games unless it's with a friend. I don't have the time to put it to get good enough to play at that level, as I most quickly through games.
I love playing them but I never play them for too long. I'm already done with MKX, I got my fill.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
To add to that, in a lot of cases, you just want to find a handful of optimal combos and call it good. (Watching tournament play's really helpful for this.) The main point of a combo is to maximize damage. Once you have that, slogging away at a pointlessly complicated combo that earns you something dumb like 2% more damage becomes a waste of time.
Don't get hung up on one combo or command throw. If it's frustrating, just move on with something easier that does similar damage and come back to it later. You're accomplishing basically the same thing either way.
Nah. Anyone can train their hands. I've never encountered any pro that doesn't spend tons of time training up and grinding out a ton of situations in training mode etc. Any that say otherwise are lying.
Ragingnight
Member
you not being good wasn't because of combos. It was your mindset and approach
Alright, so you'll never be #1 in the world. You can still be good.
I'm very good at most games but I've always found that there's somebody better. You won't be winning EVO anytime soon so it's worthless to even start?
And the players that are didn't get there from some crazy natural talent alone. If you think someone like Luffy didn't take the time and the practice to see what happens when every other fighter in the game comes at him from every angle with every move before he had responses for all those scenarios, you're crazy.
Everyone saying it before is right, combos are not at the top of the list for new players to understand. Way more important things are blocking, learning what is safe when, and spacing.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I know, not coming at you. I just think it's silly. Combos are a large part of fighting games, true. But getting hit with a combo doesn't just happen. That means you got hit because of a mistake you made. I think that's where the analysis needs to start.
The best SF players in the world would probably beat me with just footsies. They wouldn't need combos. Combos would just mean I'd die faster.
These threads always annoy me because, imo, it's a lot of people that don't want to practice or want immediate gratification instead of putting in work like the people that are beating them do.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I was decent up until about 2002. Then I didn't play any fighting games for years and never got it back. I'll try to learn some moves and combos and play for a week, and that's about it.
The knack's not there anymore and it's just not my thing to put my time into even if it is there somewhere. I'd still play some friends on a couch casually if anyone ever wanted to, but nobody does.
The knack's not there anymore and it's just not my thing to put my time into even if it is there somewhere. I'd still play some friends on a couch casually if anyone ever wanted to, but nobody does.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Also not limiting one's thinking helps a ton. Play within the ruleset, and don't make up other nonsense that'll hold you back like theses guys did then held it against me when I beat them up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMLusfPvEI
(Idiot hops on the mic at 2:57)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMLusfPvEI
(Idiot hops on the mic at 2:57)
Karsticles
Member
Thanks for the feedback, guys!
I am contemplating doing a video tutorial series on how to play fighting games. This link is a rough outline of what I'm considering doing. ANYONE with the link can comment, so feel free to add your two cents:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10QeY5rf99fR1Spk-Qr2npTDQYb3WqpZWqDfbZ6AtDO8/edit?usp=sharing
Strict visual indicator of skill, whereas spacing and footsies are not obvious to those not in the know.
You have to teach people how to learn!