PoliGAF 2015 |OT| Keep Calm and Diablos On

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I guess the media is getting all these stories out the way now because the primary is so boring on the Democratic side. Hillary is very unlikely to implode despite Republican and media wishes and Biden is 9/10 not running. I think it would be wise for us to take solace in the fact that nobody is really paying attention to this stuff and the primary is 6 months away.
 
Bel Marduk said:
Those aren't good reasons.

and look at what being outspoken like that has done for Trump.
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Gain him support in the primaries while ruining his chances for the general?

It's all the drawbacks of an extreme left candidate while having none of the positives of support for extreme left policies.
 
Aaron Strife said:
Because he's bought and sold by various lobbies including AIPAC.

In his defense he's only on record as leaning against so he could very well support it, but he still has troubling viewpoints on other issues. And he's an asshole.
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I think he'll support it, but if he's voting against its because he trying to secure south Florida money
 
I kind of love that Jeb Bush feels obliged to defend his brother's time in office. Try as he might to blame everything on Obama and Clinton, he's making it easier for dems to make the case that he is running for W Bush's 3rd term.
 
watershed said:
I kind of love that Jeb Bush feels obliged to defend his brother's time in office. Try as he might to blame everything on Obama and Clinton, he's making it easier for dems to make the case that he is running for W Bush's 3rd term.
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If he somehow gets the nomination, the first few months of post-primary advertising from the Democrats is going to write itself. Any one of us from PoliGAF would be able to take hold of the ad campaign and completely decimate him in the public's eyes, defining him early and kneecapping him for the rest of the campaign.
 
watershed said:
I kind of love that Jeb Bush feels obliged to defend his brother's time in office. Try as he might to blame everything on Obama and Clinton, he's making it easier for dems to make the case that he is running for W Bush's 3rd term.
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It'd be funny if he was the nominee because I highly doubt his brother or father would be anywhere near the RNC.

Meanwhile Bill Clinton and Obama are going to be permanent fixtures of the DNC, and probably even Carter until he passes since his image has rehabilitated immensely after his presidency (the "bad president, good person" routine). Bill probably has a couple decades left in him and Obama will be around for years.
 
Aaron Strife said:
It'd be funny if he was the nominee because I highly doubt his brother or father would be anywhere near the RNC.

Meanwhile Bill Clinton and Obama are going to be permanent fixtures of the DNC, and probably even Carter until he passes since his image has rehabilitated immensely after his presidency (the "bad president, good person" routine). Bill probably has a couple decades left in him and Obama will be around for years.
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How is Bush Senior generally viewed by Republicans today? Nobody ever talks about him. You would think he would be worshiped along side Reagan, but he hardly gets mentioned. Is it because he was one term'd?
 
Third Strike said:
How is Bush Senior generally viewed by Republicans today? Nobody ever talks about him. You would think he would be worshiped along side Reagan, but he hardly gets mentioned. Is it because he was one term'd?
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He's respected but not glorified or mentioned much because he actually put good policy first when he needed to.
 
Third Strike said:
How is Bush Senior generally viewed by Republicans today? Nobody ever talks about him. You would think he would be worshiped along side Reagan, but he hardly gets mentioned. Is it because he was one term'd?
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That "read my lips" line did him in for good and to be never spoken of again. He's just ignored like W.
 
Bam Bam Baklava said:
He's respected but not glorified or mentioned much because he actually put good policy first when he needed to.
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Third Strike said:
How is Bush Senior generally viewed by Republicans today? Nobody ever talks about him. You would think he would be worshiped along side Reagan, but he hardly gets mentioned. Is it because he was one term'd?
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He gave us Clinton. His son gave us Obama. Two of the best things to come out of their presidency's.

Hillary beating Jeb will be agonizing for the Republicans. It will be like being beaten by Bill Clinton and Obama(coalition) all over again.
 
Aaron Strife said:
On merits alone, Kerry deserves to be president. Too bad he's a dud politically.
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I'm never going to let this one go. Kerry did everything he possibly could to make 2004 competitive. He was facing an incumbent who still had the afterglow of 9/11 and the Iraq war and the jobs situation improved right before the election. Maybe if someone like Obama was available then they could have pulled it off but John Kerry maxed out his potential votes that year.
 
Third Strike said:
How is Bush Senior generally viewed by Republicans today? Nobody ever talks about him. You would think he would be worshiped along side Reagan, but he hardly gets mentioned. Is it because he was one term'd?
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He is quietly respected, especially as his health has gotten worse. But he is not held up as an example of a successful republican president and many republicans still remember his "read my lips, no new taxes" line and how he did raise taxes. He lost, Clinton won and the right never forgave him.
 
Roland_Gunner said:
I'm never going to let this one go. Kerry did everything he possibly could to make 2004 competitive. He was facing an incumbent who still had the afterglow of 9/11 and the Iraq war and the jobs situation improved right before the election. Maybe if someone like Obama was available then they could have pulled it off but John Kerry maxed out his potential votes that year.
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PmJEIpX.gif


You and me. I liked Kerry a lot. He fumbled about which all first-time candidates do. But he received the most unfair treatment this side of willie horton's weekend furlough program. He did not deserve to get his medals dragged through the mud by the ugly, venomous, dishonest swift boat attacks. He made things worse by not at all responding to mud-slinging. Combined that with "stay the course" narrative along with the fact that it is very rare to unseat a sitting President, Kerry lost. He needed to run a perfect campaign in order to win, and that is an extremely tall order.
 
I'd really like to seeJerry Brown make another run at the Presidency, but alas, he's in his late 70s and his governorship is probably the end of the road for him.
 
That Democrats are even flirting with the idea of running Gore this time around is laughable and sad. I think it shows more than anything else that a lot of important people in the party are starting to wonder if Hillary has what it takes to win a fucking general election.
 
Diablos said:
That Democrats are even flirting with the idea of running Gore this time around is laughable and sad. I think it shows more than anything else that a lot of important people in the party are starting to wonder if Hillary has what it takes to win a fucking general election.
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That you still believe every single thing you read on the net is laughable. And sad.
 
Roland_Gunner said:
I'm never going to let this one go. Kerry did everything he possibly could to make 2004 competitive. He was facing an incumbent who still had the afterglow of 9/11 and the Iraq war and the jobs situation improved right before the election. Maybe if someone like Obama was available then they could have pulled it off but John Kerry maxed out his potential votes that year.
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Might be for the best that he didn't though. He would have ended the Iraq War sooner, maybe. Which would mean a significant amount to the families who lost loved ones in that war. But imagine if a Democrat was in the White House during the recession, which almost certainly would have happened anyway. 2006 probably wouldn't have been nearly as good for Democrats so he wouldn't have had a cooperative Congress. The party would lose dramatically in 2008 leaving their asshole in ruins.

Well, maybe not. Kerry would lose reelection to say, McCain. Economy doesn't improve much, Democrats do well in the midterms (and thus redistricting), Obama runs in 2012 and wins, now he's running for reelection with a strong economy.

But in general I tend to think everything happens the way it does for a reason.

RustyNails said:
You and me. I liked Kerry a lot. He fumbled about which all first-time candidates do. But he received the most unfair treatment this side of willie horton's weekend furlough program. He did not deserve to get his medals dragged through the mud by the ugly, venomous, dishonest swift boat attacks. He made things worse by not at all responding to mud-slinging. Combined that with "stay the course" narrative along with the fact that it is very rare to unseat a sitting President, Kerry lost. He needed to run a perfect campaign in order to win, and that is an extremely tall order.
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Yeah, but Romney ran the perfect campaign and he still lost to Obama.
 
Diablos said:
That Democrats are even flirting with the idea of running Gore this time around is laughable and sad. I think it shows more than anything else that a lot of important people in the party are starting to wonder if Hillary has what it takes to win a fucking general election.
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Or we as Panther said, it just seems that way because we are paying attention. Noone in the general public cares.
 
Diablos said:
That Democrats are even flirting with the idea of running Gore this time around is laughable and sad. I think it shows more than anything else that a lot of important people in the party are starting to wonder if Hillary has what it takes to win a fucking general election.
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cool it. 15 months to go. Promise me you will make it without Diablosing this early.

also this:

watershed said:
Supporters see what they want to see but a good reality check says Joe Biden isn't running. He is gonna finish up his time in elected office as VP. His name and legacy will become synonymous with the Obama presidency and he will ride into the sunset with Obama. He will protect what he's been a part of.

Right now large swathes of the democratic party are in the "not feeling Hillary/searching for an alternative" phase. This too will pass and all this looking outside of the declared candidates will fade once the primaries really get started.
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Aaron Strife said:
Yeah, but Romney ran the perfect campaign and he still lost to Obama.
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In what universe? Do you remember that midnight press conference where he looked like a total opportunist nutbag? Or picking Paul Ryan as a running mate? Or 47%? Or his attempts to respond to the 47% video?
 
EAST LANSING, Michigan --- Donald Trump is leading his Republican challengers among those who would vote in the Michigan GOP Presidential Primary next year according to a Mitchell Poll of Michigan conducted last night. Trump with 20% leads Carly Fiorina at 15% with Jeb Bush and Ben Carson tied for third place at 12%. Marco Rubio is fourth at 10% with Ted Cruz and John Kasich both at 8% tied for fifth. Chris Christie, Mike Huckabee and Scott Walker are all at 4% with Rand Paul in last place at 2%.
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No "not sure/other" option was provided.
 
B-Dubs said:
In what universe? Do you remember that midnight press conference where he looked like a total opportunist nutbag? Or picking Paul Ryan as a running mate? Or 47%? Or his attempts to respond to the 47% video?
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That was one of PD's greatest hits, he said it sometime before the convention. "Romney is running the perfect campaign."

Up there with Scott Brown having the Massachusetts race on lockdown and Claire McCaskill losing the Missouri Senate race.
 
ivysaur12 said:
I seem to remember us thinking the same thing about Ms. Fiorina.



Yeesh, he just imploded, didn't he? How is Walker not even competitive in Michigan?
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I think the thing is, he got softball questions in the debate, but failed to really knock them out of the part. So he basically failed to draw any real attention to himself.
 
B-Dubs said:
In what universe? Do you remember that midnight press conference where he looked like a total opportunist nutbag? Or picking Paul Ryan as a running mate? Or 47%? Or his attempts to respond to the 47% video?
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Eh, picking Paul Ryan was a pretty good move. It became bad when Biden trounced the dude.
 
If Gore, Dukakis, and Biden were all in, they could reenact the 1988 debates. We'd need Hillary to cry like Pat Schroeder.

(I miss Paul Simon.)
 
B-Dubs said:
In what universe? Do you remember that midnight press conference where he looked like a total opportunist nutbag? Or picking Paul Ryan as a running mate? Or 47%? Or his attempts to respond to the 47% video?
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Picking Paul Ryan wasn't a mistake though; that was him reaching out to the party. And honestly the 47% comment did get overblown. It really was not as big a deal as people made it out to be.
 
Aaron Strife said:
That was one of PD's greatest hits, he said it sometime before the convention. "Romney is running the perfect campaign."

Up there with Scott Brown having the Massachusetts race on lockdown and Claire McCaskill losing the Missouri Senate race.
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Do I really want to know anymore of PD's greatest hit? I am really curious lol. We already have one for this cycle. I have a couple I am confident will go into the greatest hit category next year

"Hillary is running a terrible campaign" "We should have nominated Sanders"
"Hillary is down in PA? Its over for her" "Walker is running a surprisingly good race"
"I think Jeb might pull this out", "Her debate performance was so bad, Sanders went circles around her"

Poll shows Hillary down 40-50: "Its all over, she is going to lose" "Why did they nominate her" "Her baggage is killing her"
 
Picking Ryan wasn't a horrible move but I wouldn't call it a good one either. It meant he had to tie himself tot the Ryan plan. Biden fucking destroying Ryan in the debate sealed it.

Remember when Romney didn't get a post-convention bounce? And commentators were speculating that in the age of the Internet, maybe convention bounces didn't happen anymore because people were already so familiar with the candidates. Then Bill Clinton made his speech and was like "lol, nope" as Obama took a strong lead in the polls, interrupted only by a poor debate performance where Romney lied about everything ("I've never been against raising taxes for the rich" yeah ok) which quickly disappeared.

Romney's campaign was a joke and yet he still has more credibility than every Republican running. If Obama could run for a third term he would be leading by 5 points minimum.

NeoXChaos said:
Do I really want to know anymore of PD's greatest hit? I am really curious lol. We already have one for this cycle. I have a couple I am confident will go into the greatest hit category next year

"Hillary is running a terrible campaign" "We should have nominated Sanders"
"Hillary is down in PA? Its over for her" "Walker is running a surprisingly good race"
"I think Jeb might pull this out", "Her debate performance was so bad, Sanders went circles around her"

Poll shows Hillary down 40-50: "Its all over, she is going to lose" "Why did they nominate her" "Her baggage is killing her"
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PD's schtick can be amusing when it's in defiance of everything, as in 2012. It's only annoying when he's ultimately vindicated by the results, as in 2014 with his crusade against Hagan. Which was rather unfortunate since she was winning most of the night and the polls had her up. Same with Orman.
 
HylianTom said:
If Gore, Dukakis, and Biden were all in, they could reenact the 1988 debates. We'd need Hillary to cry like Pat Schroeder.

(I miss Paul Simon.)
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Now hold on, you can't reenact the 1988 debates without Dick Gephardt. He can take some "voted for Iraq" heat off Hillary, also being a lobbyist for Boeing and pharmaceutical industry including hiring his own firm to lobby for the ban of generic drugs should make for some fun.

Gary Hartpence considered running in 2004 and was recently appointed by Obama as "Special Envoy for Northern Ireland" giving him key foreign policy experience.

Bruce Babbitt probably isn't busy.

In other 1988 candidate news:
[Jesse] Jackson inherited the title of the High Prince of the Agni people of Côte d'Ivoire from Michael Jackson
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benjipwns said:
Now hold on, you can't reenact the 1988 debates without Dick Gephardt. He can take some "voted for Iraq" heat off Hillary, also being a lobbyist for Boeing and pharmaceutical industry including hiring his own firm to lobby for the ban of generic drugs should make for some fun.

Gary Hartpence considered running in 2004 and was recently appointed by Obama as "Special Envoy for Northern Ireland" giving him key foreign policy experience.

Bruce Babbitt probably isn't busy.

In other 1988 candidate news:
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Hell yes, get the whole geriatric gang back together!

I actually went looking for the SNL sketch on those debates.. all I could find was the transcript. BOO.
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/87/87jdemocrats.phtml

I'd forgotten how much I loved Al Franken's Paul Simon impersonation. Damn.

NYCmetsfan said:
I think the the 2016 election is really the 5th season of Arrested Development
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In that case, who's the "Buster" candidate?
(please say Walker)
 
*TIME WARP TO 1988*

http://www.c-span.org/video/?20-1/presidential-candidates-debate
DECEMBER 1, 1987
Presidential Candidates Debate
NBC hosted a debate in which all twelve major candidates for the 1988 presidential race participated. The six Democratic candidates and the six Republican candidates had to debate among members of their own party in separate turns but did have opportunities to respond to one another.
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This is the one from the day Joe Biden dropped out due to plagiarism charges, the Congressmen all spend time in their opening statements talking about how great Joe is, especially the two who put the knife in his back (Gore and Gephardt):
http://www.c-span.org/video/?18-1/democratic-candidates-debate
SEPTEMBER 23, 1987
Democratic Candidates Debate
Candidates competing to become the Democratic Nominee for President gathered in the Adler Theatre in Des Moines, IA to debate various and sundry issues. The major focus of the debate was the domestic sphere with a specific emphasis on issues such as education and housing. 
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Actually starts at like ten minutes in, some dumb lady gives some dumb speech about democracy or some shit before hand.

lol at Dukakis' opening...omg forgot Gephardt's "I'm very happy to be here tonight because of my involvement in the cities. I was born and educated in schools in a city. I live on a city block."

http://www.c-span.org/video/?32-1/democratic-candidates-debate
NOVEMBER 8, 1987
Democratic Candidates Debate
Each of the six candidates for the Democratic nomination for president spoke to a gathering of Democrats in Iowa City, Iowa on the issues that were facing the country going into the 1988 election year.
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http://www.c-span.org/video/?27-1/democratic-candidates-debate
JANUARY 24, 1988
Democratic Candidates Debate
The seven primary candidates for the Democratic nomination for president gathered in a debate at the University of New Hampshire in Durham, New Hampshire. The debate was hosted by the university and candidates discussed the primary issues with only a month remaining before the New Hampshire primaries.
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http://www.c-span.org/video/?28-1/democratic-candidates-debate
JANUARY 23, 1988
Democratic Candidates Debate
Candidates for the Democratic nomination for the presidency gathered in Ames, Iowa at the Prairiefire Forum to debate issues relating to agriculture and rural life. The debate took place just a few weeks before the Iowa Caucus was set to occur.
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Bonus, free with purchase:
http://www.c-span.org/video/?4331-1/canadian-leaders-debate
OCTOBER 25, 1988
Canadian Leaders' Debate
In the first hour of debate, the three leaders of Canada’s political parties debated foreign policy and especially the Free Trade Agreement. Prime Minister Mulroney defends the agreement signed earlier this year from the attacks by the other two. The second and third hours of the debate centered on women’s issues and the economic impact of the Free Trade Agreement. The previous night the three leaders debated for three hours in French. Mrs. Abella was the moderator of the English Language Leaders' Debate
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Mulroney put a secret pact in NAFTA that makes Canada into the 51st State whenever the United States wants! ED BROADBENT AND JOHN TURNER SAW THE SECRET CLAUSE!

*RETURNS TO 2015*

Carly Fiorina at 15%?!?
 
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