While there is no three dimensional representation of water displacement, the physics of the situation are actually modelled. If you go slowly through puddles you do not hydroplane, where as if you go fast over them you do.
Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
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While there is no three dimensional representation of water displacement, the physics of the situation are actually modelled. If you go slowly through puddles you do not hydroplane, where as if you go fast over them you do.
Stillmatic
Member
Driveclub does the visual representation of wet weather and puddles better than anyone.
Forza 6 does physics simulation of puddles better than anyone.
Forza 6 does physics simulation of puddles better than anyone.
Precisely.
Exactly my point. Itching to try FM6 in the wet, because by all accounts it's pretty amazing.
Crayon
Member
Driving hard in rain irl is a nightmare. Well, I should say it is with a wide summer tire it's a nightmare. With more all season tires it's just unpleasant. I look forward to the game that captures the true melange of shitty effects. (the latest sim ive played is gt6. I've missed all these other games so far.)
cyber_ninja
Member
Have you ever drove a car when it's pouring down like crazy? If you had than you'd know that you can't see shit under those conditions,but instead you talk about overusing effects.Smh.
Oh, you know this is clearly much more realistic:
Having said that, the droplets for the most part need to be a lot smaller on DC and closer to how they look in Forza. It's like there's oil pooling on your windscreen.
Driveclub's rain effect on the windshield literally looks like lube or vegetable oil.
SolidSnakex
Member
Here's someone racing in heavy rain. Between the rain and the spray from other cars, it's impossible to see at times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyHpqKiDMJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyHpqKiDMJ0
Aceofspades
Banned
Credit goes to SunhiLegend.
Thats not an opinion, DC is the best looking racer so far. 60fps or not
Oh, you know this is clearly much more realistic:
Having said that, the droplets for the most part need to be a lot smaller on DC and closer to how they look in Forza. It's like there's oil pooling on your windscreen.
That's a light rain in Forza's gif.
Try to drive when i rains heavily!
My biggest issue with Driveclub is that my TV screen is ALWAYS a damned mess regardless of camera view. Almost all events on the PS+ demo have rain and no matter what camera you pick you get a blurry mess of wet that gives me a headache. I would have bought the game if there was a way to turn off screen splash on outside views like PCars.
Yes, we understand that when it rains hard, it is hard to see. Driveclub on the other hand isn't good at representing what it is like driving in heavy rain correctly when in the driver's view.
There are other factors that make it harder to see when driving in rain in real life.
Fogged windshield, dirt and grime being tossed up from other cars, oils..
Sure you can say Driveclub makes it hard to see, but that doesn't mean that it is actually good at representing what you'd see in an actual race or driving in rain in general.
thelastword
Banned
Wow, these gifs look bad, not just the graphics but the way the cars move, looks a combination of a twitchy/glitch. Lighting needs a lot of work, the cars don't look impressive, especially when you see them bunched up, they look like they're lower poly the further away they are and the more grouped up they are. Aliasing is still bad, I would have at least thought they would improve on that. Also, something about those headlights just don't look right.....Some gamersyde Forza 6 replays. (Credit to Shinn from the Forza thread)
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
Credit goes to SunhiLegend.
I need to return to DRIVECLUB...IMMEDIATELY. JEEEEEESUS!
A well designed summer tire should outperform any all-season tire in the rain.
I would take some time to consider your points had I not read you complaining about aliasing in 600x338 gifs taken from a game that is natively rendered at 1080p. Unless the game was using pixel art any aliasing visible would likely be removed with that large of a downsample.
Windom Earle
Member
As long as Turn10 is on super short dev cycles and stuck with this engine, we will keep seeing these incremental upgrades in visuals.
That and the twitchy movement is likely caused by the gamersyde guys using a standard controller. Fine adjustments are much more difficult on a controller than a wheel. Which is well illustrated in this unremarkable PCars (PS4) lap I did around the Nurburgring.
https://youtu.be/O-BY2D6eX60
TheAdmiester
Member
Aliasing? At 1080p > "postage stamp" downsampling I don't see how you can see anything even remotely resembling that. The closest thing I can even see is the slightly beady reflections on the BRZ's roof, but I've seen that in every single racing game that has reflections.
Also, Forza? Twitchy? I don't see anything wrong with the movement whatsoever.
Nah, there's physics being calculated during every contact. Takes into account speed, tire width, tire temperature, angle...etc. And like the other poster said, you only start hydroplaning above a certain speed. Not sure why people are doubtful or skip over this feature as if it's just a cosmetic, I guess it's easier to make fun of it if it's Forza, or if you don't fully understand it (which isn't even that hard of a concept)? Oh well.
I'm not saying it looks bad, I am saying it's impractical. Looks glorious, but if it works against me then I'd rather not have it. FM6 has the perfect balance between good looking, physics-based raindrops and how many droplets, and how it actually looks on the windshield and in the air. You've seen DC in snow at night, it's even harder to see because of how many particles react to your headlights. It looks nice for 10 seconds, then it gets in my way of actually playing the game.
And that is not light rain in FM6, it looks like medium rain, which makes sense, because no one would host a race if it was pouring rain.
.
lol
ss_lemonade
Member
Wait what? I must be blind but how can you even see aliasing in those GIFs? Wouldn't it be the opposite, since the game renders at 1080p and downsizing it to small images should effectively hide the jaggies?
Crayon
Member
And it often does. But the change in handling is worse for the summer tire I think. I feel like an all season tire feels more like the same tire with less grip in the rain. Where a nice summer tire can feel more like it's not working right. That's how I feel in general. But I haven't driven every tire or anything. Different models have wildy different characteristics.
Stillmatic
Member
Rain in the air looks bad in both.
Batman: AK is now the standard for that.
The rain effects in general might make it easier for you to drive in F6, but they don't look nearly as good or realistic as other games.
TrojanBlade
Member
To me FM6 looks really flat. The lighting just looks off and unnatural. I give it that its 60fps but other than that it doesn't look impressive. Even GT6 on PS3 has better and natural lighting. Same is true for DC which has the best lighting in a racer so far on current gen consoles. But I expect GT7 to blow everything else away when it comes out.
Why would it matter how it looks in stills? Rain looks great in motion in both of them, that's what I mean as "rain in the air", as in the rain effects impacting visibility while playing. Also, FM6 rain doesn't look realistic? It may not look as gpod as DC's but what's not realistic about it? It has droplets that react to speed and direction, what else is it missing?Rain in the air looks bad in both.
Batman: AK is now the standard for that.
The rain effects in general might make it easier for you to drive in F6, but they don't look nearly as good or realistic as other games.
Fair enough, I'll cop that. Is there footage or a .gif of heavy rain in the FM6 demo?
Or, you know, this is the "Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off". The very definition of "cosmetic".
Windom Earle
Member
Rain in the air looks bad in both.
Kill it with fire.
Wait, I am not understanding. Should we be ignorant that Forza has all those physics calculations taking up resources?
Discussing differences in textures, models, and lighting but not taking into account dofferences in resource proportions?
Rain in the air looks bad in both.
Jesus christ does the game actually look like that? Didn't pick up FM5 after getting my Xbox One, was thinking of FM6 but I don't think I could handle going from Driveclub to that.
Windom Earle
Member
I dunno, maybe make a physics thread where we discuss physics only? (That are highly subjective in many regards) And console sims get destroyed by Assetto Corsa and other PC sims anyway IMO.
Some gamersyde Forza 6 replays. (Credit to Shinn from the Forza thread)
You know GAF?
Even if I am a big DC fan, I can see F6 with prebaked illumination and superior IQ can get closer to reality.
DC on natural day lighting without weather, showing all its flaws, looks worse that F6 on those same conditions. You know that's true.
Dont act like F6 is "garbage" next to DC, because it's not.
I do even like more how F6 looks at night more than DC, but I guess I should play F6 on my TV before judging.
Sure but do we want to play ignorant in a tech thread, knowing that graphics consist of computing and that there are many things a game has to compute? I mean, we can imagine a game running at, let's say, 20 fps with all bells and whistles, dynamic everything, high poly crowds and so on. It would look absolutely amazing but do you assume nobody would say it looks the way it does because of the framerate? Surely not.
No it doesn't look like that. It actually looks like the tiny gifs people have posted elsewhere.
Windom Earle
Member
Could you post some gameplay Forza day lighting pics that you think look better than DC?
What other games have you been playing lately?
Okay, then, I'll grab my coat.
Nice bait there.
Stillmatic
Member
It's literally a still image of what the effect looks like. It doesn't look good in either games, even in motion. Yeah the droplets react to speed and direction like every other recent racer with weather, but like most other racers it doesn't look realistic at all, it's just there. In DC it isn't even realistic, though it's probably the closest so far.
It was just the first image without blur of rain falling posted Forza 6 megathread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=177379187&postcount=6554
But yeah that is a real direct feed shot, any game can have bad screens, there are much more flattering shots.
First GIF I quoted looks better to me.
Windom Earle
Member
But it looks terrible? Cars look quite low poly, the trees are 2d and the lighting is flat. No.
Overusage of effects? Yeah, I guess you don't have a driver's license, correct?
If you do, take your car for a spin during a torrential downpour and hit the freeway.
No it does not. When you have perfect vision and clarity when it's pouring outside, that's simply not realistic. Sure it improves your vision from a gameplay perspective, but part of weather is the impaired vision of the track, making it so you have to drive more carefully as to not spin out. That's the entire point, it's an extra challenge.
When cars barely spray water and the lighting engine makes the cars seem to hover above the reflective surface, missing obvious water effects, it doesn't look realistic.
Edit: Sorry for double posting.
There's more than 2 rain settings IRL, it can lightly rain. I was on the demo thinking how realistic looking the rain setting was. On Sebring it was fantastic.
Also, I took my car out into the Peak District not long ago in the rain for a drive. It hammered it down as well. I was on tight roads at 60mph with fine visibility.
People say Forza looks 'flat', but to be honest, I'd say it's the most realistic looking due to that. PCars and DC seem to have a stylised look, which yeah, looks very nice, but isn't really life like to RL.
People seem to forget that tracks RL aren't exactly pretty.
Vroadstar
Member
Nice spin to prop the racer of your choice but in case you never experienced it yourself yet, rain do obscure your vision that's why they invented wipers.
Windom Earle
Member
I think the consensus is that DC has one of the best and most realistic lighting systems we have ever seen. On top it is dynamic. I really don't see how it is stylized. The problem Forza always had is that it looks "cartoony" and the car shaders appear too much like plastic. Not sure if this is improved in F6. It is very similar to PCars in that regard I would say.
Credit goes to SunhiLegend.
Yea this game is still the king, though it's 30 fps so it's understandable, FM6 is very impressive for a 60 fps game, wonder how close GT7 will get to DC, I think DC is still the barometer, at least when it comes to pure visuals.
I mean props to DC, game looks fantastic. Not trying to put it down. Just in my opinion, I think it looks more stylised than Forza does. Where as Forza looks dull, just like a race track should be. Although, I don't have a PS4, but I wish I did just to play DC. I miss corridor arcades since PGR left us.
Definitely agree with the cars on FM. Just referring to the tracks. Bar Rio, that looks cartoony as anything. Their fantasy ones always seem to.