Oddly enough, even for the mostly silent protag he is, I'd be down for future games that explore him more. I mean, backstory be damned since we're supposed to be him, but as a medic that got a fast-pass promotion to being Big Boss - especially one that ends up being cannon fodder for the real one in MG1 - there's definitely a still a lot one can do with that.
SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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Oddly enough, even for the mostly silent protag he is, I'd be down for future games that explore him more. I mean, backstory be damned since we're supposed to be him, but as a medic that got a fast-pass promotion to being Big Boss - especially one that ends up being cannon fodder for the real one in MG1 - there's definitely a still a lot one can do with that.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Whenever I hear Otacon now, it takes a second to remember that he's a good guy and not a lying psycopath like Huey.
I kinda liked that retcon though, if you can call it that. His last two tapes really showed his "I've made a huge mistake" side to his ambition.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
True enough. Still, yeah, he's super brit. Like, 'God save the queen' and all that.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Dunno if you guys have seen this or not. Kiefer's delivery is actually really fucking good.
Of course, this was cut. The proper ending.
Of course, this was cut. The proper ending.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Yeah, we've been talking about this. A great tape that sold me on the Venom twist.
I want to see more Venom/BB interaction. I get that he's an avatar of sorts but any actual characterization of him as BB's most loyal soldier has been fantastic. What I really love about this tape is that he advocates for a world where people can put the gun down, but follows Boss' Outer Heaven philosophy to the end anyway. There's a lot to interpret there.
I'm just being a broken record at this point, but Venom has a lot of potential to be a great character that isn't realized in this game. The quiet, kindhearted loyal soldier who is unlike any Metal Gear protag before him, like someone else said above.
So question.
How the hell do nukes work in FOB?
Some people say it prevents people from attacking you (definitely not true).
Some people say it's just a status symbol saying "look at me I have nukes don't fuck with me".
I've also read that having them allows you attack intruders that invaded your allies' FOB's.
How the hell do nukes work in FOB?
Some people say it prevents people from attacking you (definitely not true).
Some people say it's just a status symbol saying "look at me I have nukes don't fuck with me".
I've also read that having them allows you attack intruders that invaded your allies' FOB's.
And we are suppose to believe that this is the evil guy from Metal Gear 1.
MGS5: The medic who was pretty ok guy
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Venom fought Snake in MG1, but it was Big Boss on the codec. Venom only appeared for the final battle.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Quiet is a strong woman who you can play dress up with, ok? Leave her alone. All she ever wanted was to be your sniping buddy, and to play rockin' 80's tunes with you, and to stare at you fondly during your helicopter rides.
More than the "ashamed of your words and deeds" comment what irks me is the comment he made about how he created Quiet to be an "antithesis of women in gaming".
Bullshit...lol
I wish I could see Venom like you do. To me me just seems like and imposter who takes more away from the story than he adds
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Maybe what he meant is how capable and "badass" Quiet is.
If that's the case, though, he shouldn't have made her the pandering character that she is.
I feel like Two Face when I think about the plot in this game. I love and hate it, and not just the different parts of it but the same exact parts of it.
Edit: I think it helps that the avatar I created looks really plausible to be a possible double for BB. When I saw the cutscenes with the medic I saw this guy, sans bandana obviously:
Looks like a guy who idolizes Boss to me, as well as similar enough where plastic surgery could be very plausible. Maybe that contributes to why the twist didn't feel too jarring to me, at least in some senses.
If that's the case, though, he shouldn't have made her the pandering character that she is.
You can only really appreciate Venom if you look at what he gives rather than what he takes away. Yes, he robbed us of a true BB game and the stories it could have told, but there's something to appreciate there if you put that to the side.
I feel like Two Face when I think about the plot in this game. I love and hate it, and not just the different parts of it but the same exact parts of it.
Edit: I think it helps that the avatar I created looks really plausible to be a possible double for BB. When I saw the cutscenes with the medic I saw this guy, sans bandana obviously:
Looks like a guy who idolizes Boss to me, as well as similar enough where plastic surgery could be very plausible. Maybe that contributes to why the twist didn't feel too jarring to me, at least in some senses.
My earlier post on this
tl;dr I think Quiet could have been the best part of this game had the pandering shit not have happened.
That probably is the game I really wanted this to be.
Good post.
Pretty much my feelings too. All the ridiculousness in the rest of the game aside, his incredibly melodramatic directing style and characterization could have achieved some level of poignancy if not for his incredibly lame male-gazey approach, and it's super fucking frustrating. Especially when he tries to pass this off as some kind of statement, or some kind of totally justified reason within the fiction...
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Yeah, this is a great post and pretty much how I feel about it too.
If Kojima was going to make a pandering character he should have just straight up made a different, additional character. Look at EVA from MGS3. He didn't try to explain away her sex appeal at all.
Yabberwocky
Member
It's such a great origin/concept base for a character. I really wish they'd continued to develop Venom more as an individual instead of keeping him as a bit of a detached avatar. He's a really compelling character when he's allowed to be. The cut Venom dialogue above is great, and Sutherland nailed it. What a waste.
I want poor Venom to have a happy alternate universe ending with him getting the hell outta dodge and riding off into the sunset on D-Horse with DD. He can run a McDonald's burger chain for Kaz, or something. It'll be riveting stuff.
Gardevoir finally has competition in the fan-service plant department.
Berserker976
Member
In my head canon Kaz gets fed up with all this Mother Base nonsense and opens a burger chain called McDonell's, and that's why everyone calls him McDonell Miller in MG2/MGS1
You know, it makes sense that V would hallucinate about Paz rather than Chico or any of the things that we think Big Boss would hallucinate about. The last big memory he has is of opening her up in an attempt to save her and failing, causing the pain he's experiencing. Chico is just a name and possibly face that V would remember.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
What is that Skull Face car ride? Sheesh.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Just finished it and man I don't know why people were bummed at the ending I thought it was fucking great, my biggest gripe is that not enough changes during the repeat of the prologue and of course the fact that Eli's story isn't properly concluded.
But goddamn that was so fucking cool.
If I'm not mistaken that last tape that venom has before shattering the window is labeled intrude n312 right? That would imply that he's turned diamond dogs into outer heaven.
And that would mean that venom is responsible for all of big bosses evil shit and the real big boss just wanted to let the world be which I guess he realized decades before the naked sin epilogue of MGS4 was the boss' true will.
Also my biggest question is what happened to Zero? I looked away for a second and I couldn't see the blurb about him during the timeline very well but it looks like zero is probably already comatose by this point?
So then who is calling the shots in cipher?
Dr. Clark? Signit? A prototype AI?
But goddamn that was so fucking cool.
If I'm not mistaken that last tape that venom has before shattering the window is labeled intrude n312 right? That would imply that he's turned diamond dogs into outer heaven.
And that would mean that venom is responsible for all of big bosses evil shit and the real big boss just wanted to let the world be which I guess he realized decades before the naked sin epilogue of MGS4 was the boss' true will.
Also my biggest question is what happened to Zero? I looked away for a second and I couldn't see the blurb about him during the timeline very well but it looks like zero is probably already comatose by this point?
So then who is calling the shots in cipher?
Dr. Clark? Signit? A prototype AI?
As mentioned a billion times before in this thread lol, watch the Mission 51 video. It really does bury most of the hatchet in this game, storywise at least.
Except that's wrong and Big Boss was still evil in MG2. This body double twist was stupid as fuck, raised more questions than answers, makes the real Big Boss' story seem dumb, and was completely unnecessary.
Yabberwocky
Member
Best head canon. DD can be the mascot.
Neff
Member
There was one moment where I thought they genuinely going to do it, for real.
Marvel
could never
Awkwaaaard.
keltickennedy
Member
Watch the video for episode 51 "Kingdom of The Flies". I just did......now I'm also really bummed out.
Fuck Konami.
Berserker976
Member
You just finished it? Yeah, give it some time, the more you think about it the more you'll come to hate it like the rest of us.
Also no, Venom isn't responsible for all the evil shit. It's still Big Boss in Zanzibar Land. The Operation Intrude tape was on the other side of the tape from Big Boss. They did the evil shit together. They're both the evil one. Or not evil, whatever.
In addition to that, I just booted up game again and found out all the pics of Quiet in the ACC have been removed.
See? Now that shit made me feel really sad now Kojima, but it could've been more heartbreaking if there was more effort into the poignancy,
As mentioned many times through the thread, they don't appear to be entirely to blame for this. The game was over budget and delayed as is.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Also as stupid as it is that episode 51 is missing, it still doesn't fix one of the most hilarious dumb things in the story which is the Lord of the Flies "references" in Eli's story. They laid that stuff on thick, my god.
I thought it was fine honestly. Like no conversation would ever actually exist like that but it's a video game. Sometimes realism has to be sacrificed for cinematics. Maybe it was just late guy I got hype as fuck when the music kicked in. I had been waiting for this for so long.
Dantejerry
Member
Personally, The Quiet ending and the fact you never can have her on missions again made me pretty sad, but now noticed all the photos of her in the ACC are gone too... its just too much
Nope. VS builds Outer Heaven, BB founds Zanzibar Land. There's so many people who got the same impression you did, though. I'm guessing that's because they didn't play the MSX games, not helping that every game in the series has mentioned Outer Heaven a few times while forgetting to say anything about Zanzibar.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I like it. It solidifies Liquid as someone who has to surround himself with others. Sorta emulating BB with his own band of child soldiers. And Metal Gear is his conch shell.
May i ask politely why it is more Kojima than konami? This thread is long as fuck ; p
I didn't say more Kojima than Konami, I said Konami wasn't entirely to blame for cut content.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Because Kojima is the director/producer who couldn't get the project done in time and on budget?
Agreed. We weren't playing as Big Boss, so it feels weird to look like him as well. Makes more sense to play as our empty vessel avatar nameless medic guy that can equal Big Boss in everything.
My goodness that twist... so stupid!
Marvel
could never
I have no intentions of booting up the game until MGO now, but if I did I'd do that yeah. Or use my grunts.
Also can't look at peoples VS gaf avatars now.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
But we are all Big Boss
We beat him in MG1
We killed him in MG2
We killed our brother in MGS1
We were fooled into working for the Patriots in MGS2
We witnessed our birth in MGS3
And we saw the finality of our mission in MGS4
And now....we were given life in MGSV.
We beat him in MG1
We killed him in MG2
We killed our brother in MGS1
We were fooled into working for the Patriots in MGS2
We witnessed our birth in MGS3
And we saw the finality of our mission in MGS4
And now....we were given life in MGSV.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
How is it wrong? It would mean that Big Boss in MG2 was venom though. Venom was clearly becoming corrupted by the legend that he had become.
I think it makes big boss' story all the more interesting since 9 years of being "dead" probably gave him a lot of time to reflect upon the boss' will and he definitely came to the conclusion of it meaning "to let the world be" instead of trying to force change on it.
That would explain why he walked away from everything.
Also that meta narrative style where kojima basically turns the player into big boss, that's some cool shit right there. It gave me MGS2 vibes. It makes playing as venom feel all the more interesting too.
Honestly I loved the ending.
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