I don't even understand how this would work, consoles are not phones and tablets. By the time a new hardware is ready you might as well start a new cycle.
Please leave this to the PC market.
Consoles with upgraded hardware... Could this be the next step the industry takes?
- Thread starter FuuRe
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I don't even understand how this would work, consoles are not phones and tablets. By the time a new hardware is ready you might as well start a new cycle.
Please leave this to the PC market.
Felix Lighter
Member
I have a hypothetical question for those that are against the thought of such a thing. Let's say someone who bought the PS4 at launch has the exact same experience he or she would have had over the life of the console as they would today, however a newer better PS4 is released a few years in, which has better framerate in some games, maybe improved image quality or effects. Would you rather this new iteration not exist, even if your experience keeping the launch console doesn't change in this scenario?
When they switched to a common architecture that is already being iterated on regularly, it's not the same as when everything was so custom. However, I expect that a combination of platform holders' business models being focused on subscription and license fees and not hardware profit and the push back mostly from publishers would prevent this situation anytime soon, even if the situation seems more feasible now.
When they switched to a common architecture that is already being iterated on regularly, it's not the same as when everything was so custom. However, I expect that a combination of platform holders' business models being focused on subscription and license fees and not hardware profit and the push back mostly from publishers would prevent this situation anytime soon, even if the situation seems more feasible now.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Yeah, if "most" is including mobile gamers. For console gamers this is a laughable claim
quackamole
Member
I never understand the comparison of the console industry to the smart phone industry, they are totally different. One is a luxury toy that is nice to have, another is basically an essential electronic thay you need to have for school/job.
_Spr_Drnk
Banned
I hope not, as others have said it's not really the point of consoles and at that point you may as well go PC. I am interested in the idea of new to the market consoles having a completely optional 'back compatibility' module containing the bare minimum chipset required, at least on the first 'pre slim' model.
Edit: chipset
Edit: chipset
Ol No Bones
Banned
Why wouldn't it be simple and just work?
crazygambit
Member
You mean like phones?
Every game would still run on every version of the console and developers would have to target the base platform (like they do now), but the new models could run those titles with more bells and whistles (30 vs 60fps, higher resolution or detail, etc).
Consoles are no longer exotic hardware designed for the sole purpose of gaming. They are almost off the shelf PCs nowadays. The difference is mainly in OS and in that way they can compete with PCs.
Exactly. I have my pc for this. If consoles go the same route I'll just be a PC only guy and stop buying consoles.
I haven't bought a n3DS yet because I don't know how to open my old 3DS and install the new CPU and extra (V)RAM. Also I don't want to mod in the new analog nub.
I ended up selling my 3DS because it doesn't run new games anymore. I can't believe Nintendo is forcing me to upgrade.
Maybe if one lives in some la-la fantasy world. But you can be certain the OG PS4 versions would be even worse off than they are in the current way of doing things. Instead of developers aiming for at least a somewhat acceptable 30fps@1080p on all PS4 hardware, they would probably just aim the PS4.5 version to be 30fps@1080p and then just push out some crap with the OG PS4 version. Because that's what would happen with quite a lot of games, especially as the improved hardware becomes more common.
Karsticles
Member
Console gaming tried this back in the day. N64HDD, Sega CD, etc. They all fail miserably.
bobbychalkers
Member
If that became the trend, I'd probably just delay new console purchases even longer that I do now.
CosmicQueso
Member
nice tag
Obliterator
Member
No. I'm referring to the Xbox One Elite console. And the percentage of buyers that were upgrading from the standard Xbone.
KingJ2002
Member
unlike the smartphone market.... annual or bi-annual Hardware refreshes for game systems aren't possible due to
1. the radical changes in hardware architecture.
2. changes in operating system
3. changes in SDK's
4. no subsidy model or payment plan to make the system affordable to low income households
I believe this will change with the Nintendo NX... with their system Nintendo plans to borrow many strategies that they see from Apple & Google and standardize their hardware architecture, provide a unified OS with a number of SDK improvements, while also leveraging cloud computing for storage and account management. This gives them the option to provide hardware upgrades while keeping previous generation titles playable. If they can provide a compelling reason for the consumer to upgrade on an annual or bi-annual basis... then providing a payment plan to accommodate would allow them to completely adapt the smartphone model and change the console market forever.
Sort of legitimizing Apple's platform (if it wasn't legit already)
1. the radical changes in hardware architecture.
2. changes in operating system
3. changes in SDK's
4. no subsidy model or payment plan to make the system affordable to low income households
I believe this will change with the Nintendo NX... with their system Nintendo plans to borrow many strategies that they see from Apple & Google and standardize their hardware architecture, provide a unified OS with a number of SDK improvements, while also leveraging cloud computing for storage and account management. This gives them the option to provide hardware upgrades while keeping previous generation titles playable. If they can provide a compelling reason for the consumer to upgrade on an annual or bi-annual basis... then providing a payment plan to accommodate would allow them to completely adapt the smartphone model and change the console market forever.
Sort of legitimizing Apple's platform (if it wasn't legit already)
Not gonna happen. Don't worry, OP.
I'm not sure what Nintendo was thinking when they made the N3DS more powerful... it's going to be an under-utilized platform that is not worth buying into...
If anything, Hyrule Warriors running terribly (I haven't seen the vid yet) is going to blow up in their face more than anything...
And it shows that they are desperate to make it work on regular 3DS instead of just making it a N3DS-Only game like Xenoblade... which is more proof that the whole idea behind N3DS was a bad one.
I'm not sure what Nintendo was thinking when they made the N3DS more powerful... it's going to be an under-utilized platform that is not worth buying into...
If anything, Hyrule Warriors running terribly (I haven't seen the vid yet) is going to blow up in their face more than anything...
And it shows that they are desperate to make it work on regular 3DS instead of just making it a N3DS-Only game like Xenoblade... which is more proof that the whole idea behind N3DS was a bad one.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
However, both MSFT and Sony adopting the x86 platform, and MSFT integrating Win10 into the Xbox, both of them are also heading towards 'gaming as a service' just like Mobile, and like Nintendo wants to head. That alone will knock the first 3 off the list.
Do I think it will happen this gen? No, but I would not put it past next gen. Basically Steam boxes with different power ranges for both of them. Considering they are PC-like now, and most of the game engines used are highly scalable, and have been built this way for some time now.
CosmicQueso
Member
Except that they sold a ton of them in 2015 with hardly a software title to go with.
Obliterator
Member
Yup. It spiked 3DS hardware hugely. And that was with little software support.
If Sony / MS wanted to release a higher spec system utilizing the same OS and actually had like 10 games day 1 that ran great, yeah it would do some gangbusters
I'm sure console makers would evaluate all the scenarios to avoid excluding their main userbase from playing games.
It's not as simple as you put it, also all of you putting 32x and 64dd as examples of failure should consider times have changed, electronics have become cheaper and more accessible and with that, more disposable.
Also the business model of those peripherials most likely wasn't ideal for the times, not saying that same business model would work now, but maybe they could offer something attractive to the consumers, and that isn't exclusive to hardware upgrades, because nowadays people like to have the latest stuff for the sake of it, that said, console makers could exploit this and get profits.
JinjoUnchained
Member
This would only work if you could trade in your old console for like 75% the cost of the new model. Advertise it as a $100 upgrade fee and then the manufacturer sells the trade-ins as refurbs.
VincentMatts
Member
If i could get a more powerful xbox one, i would.
Possibly.
Assuming they stay on x86 hardware, there would potentially be little difference between a PS4.5 and a PS5, other than the name. Even if they brought out a full new console, you'd still get cross gen games on both old and new for quite some time, so the practical result would be the same.
Assuming they stay on x86 hardware, there would potentially be little difference between a PS4.5 and a PS5, other than the name. Even if they brought out a full new console, you'd still get cross gen games on both old and new for quite some time, so the practical result would be the same.
KingJ2002
Member
I agree... i don't see this happening for Microsoft & Sony until next gen... but I can see Nintendo making the first attempt 2-3 years after the NX launches. That should line up with a launch of the next playstation and xbox platforms.
LordBaztion
Member
I think it could be done just don't replace the version 1, just make the following versions to play games improved as PC does. It is not meant to compete against PC, its to cut the platform migration every generation. I think we are at a point when the basic arquitecture of the platforms won't change drastically and upcoming versions will be compatible with curent gen games. I think it is more visible in the case of the Xbox One, it already runs W10 and probably next xbox will run Windows too and will have X1 BC from the begining, so it could be posible for they to sell a Xbox One version 2 for xbox enthisiasts while keeping version One to newcomes.
I'm putting my money on Nintendo NX to lead this charge. Not upgrade-able hardware, but new hardware each year.
It will lock you into their ecosystem and they will never be that far out of touch on power.
Recurring payments / subscriptions / annual upgrades are becoming the new reality.
Every other tech product has yearly upgrades. Consoles need to jump on this or they will lose out ... to mobile (not PC).
It will lock you into their ecosystem and they will never be that far out of touch on power.
Recurring payments / subscriptions / annual upgrades are becoming the new reality.
Every other tech product has yearly upgrades. Consoles need to jump on this or they will lose out ... to mobile (not PC).
Obliterator
Member
Exactly. A trade in program to bring console costs down would be huge, and would make the business model practical.
This exact scenario happened with GameStop and the n3DS launch. Look at 3DS hardware for that NPD. It was a crazy spike.
Xbone also won an NPD month using this same strategy from 360 to Xbone.
Its a business model that very very well may work, and I expect someone to try it. Though in a way I gues Nintendo already has
Canis lupus
Member
Learn to read guys, I said I want it on my console, already have a pc. The concept of upgrade-able consoles is as old as pc upgrading if not older and it should come back in some form.
Yes, it would be win-win to everybody. The same people freaking about this idea are the ones who go the lengths of buying a SSD for their PS4 to improve loading times. New version of the console that is stronger and has better HDD and other improvements is great for everybody involved. If i'm going to buy a console in middle to end of its cycle why would i want the first version if i could buy the newer one that might guarantee 1080P and locked 30FPS at worst?
The only people who wouldn't like this *OPTION* are ones who think that will make game exclusives to certain iteration. That wouldn't be the case - all the games will work on all versions of the console but obviously they would run and perform better on the stronger version. That's it.
There's also the fringe people who think that by having a game offer a 60FPS option your game on current consoles (let alone for the stronger iteration) is a disaster because that somehow means 'devs aren't pushing this one specs to the limit' or 'compromising the vision'.
The only people who wouldn't like this *OPTION* are ones who think that will make game exclusives to certain iteration. That wouldn't be the case - all the games will work on all versions of the console but obviously they would run and perform better on the stronger version. That's it.
There's also the fringe people who think that by having a game offer a 60FPS option your game on current consoles (let alone for the stronger iteration) is a disaster because that somehow means 'devs aren't pushing this one specs to the limit' or 'compromising the vision'.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Good point about Nintendo as well.
adamantypants
Member
I don't think anybody in this thread wants consoles to be perpetually underpowered. What we're saying is that it's not worth it for both the hardware manufacturers and the developers. Developers don't want to develop for PS4, PS4.1, PS4.5, PS4.999999 etc. They want to develop for PS4.
Games are already programmed for this exact configuration of hardware. Throwing more power into the current architectures doesn't mean that games automatically get better. For example, DSfix for Dark Souls on PC. It leverages the more powerful hardware of PC, but at some point it breaks the game so much so that you have to be able to turn the mod off on the fly to cap it at 30fps so that you can do basic things. Games would have to be re-done at least on some level and developers are already squeezing what they can out of their games AND their staff.
Games are already programmed for this exact configuration of hardware. Throwing more power into the current architectures doesn't mean that games automatically get better. For example, DSfix for Dark Souls on PC. It leverages the more powerful hardware of PC, but at some point it breaks the game so much so that you have to be able to turn the mod off on the fly to cap it at 30fps so that you can do basic things. Games would have to be re-done at least on some level and developers are already squeezing what they can out of their games AND their staff.
CosmicQueso
Member
Wonder if this thread will be a lot of fun to revisit after E3.
Even if one of the big three even thought of this idea, fans would make sure it backfired like a shotgun blast to the head...
I seriously doubt Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo would attempt this with a home console.
Sony would surely lose all the consumers it has gained this gen and destroy the rep it has gained over the years.
Microsoft don't need to piss off anymore of its user Base after the 180. Also with the sales it's been trying to scrape back this past 2 years because of its stupidity at E3.
Nintendo, well, I don't think Nintendo needs another WII U situation tbh.
I seriously doubt Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo would attempt this with a home console.
Sony would surely lose all the consumers it has gained this gen and destroy the rep it has gained over the years.
Microsoft don't need to piss off anymore of its user Base after the 180. Also with the sales it's been trying to scrape back this past 2 years because of its stupidity at E3.
Nintendo, well, I don't think Nintendo needs another WII U situation tbh.
Most of these games are on PC. Developers already did the work of having better performance and more gfx features for those with better hardware. The changes in hardware aren't going to be dramatic so it would be pretty easy to offer a 60fps\better gfx preset for those with the stronger consoles.
Your DS example is irrelevant since it was a port after few years that was developed with FPS tied to game logic. Not something you're going to see much from going on.
Felix Lighter
Member
I'm not sure why people keep specifically saying that you can't compare consoles to phones. This is not just the phone model. It's phones, tablets, computers, streaming boxes, televisions, etc. Basically every consumer electronic outside of consoles that I can think of.
Tarin02543
Member
PS4 players don't care about technicalities, that's why they buy a console.
Chû Totoro
Member
If Nintendo are good enough NX may be that. A platform with a sort of OS / Game Engine / Librairies / ... that can work on different devices sharing the same architecture but at different scales of power.
So yeah it's the future but hopefully in an even better handling of the hardware / peripherals / OS / Software ecosystem so there's less power wasted and a better usage of each component technical capabilities.
That's the future yeah. imo.
So yeah it's the future but hopefully in an even better handling of the hardware / peripherals / OS / Software ecosystem so there's less power wasted and a better usage of each component technical capabilities.
That's the future yeah. imo.
The problem with the OP's scenario is too many what-ifs. In my mind there's two extremes here; 1.) devs still focus most attention on the base console as it already has a huge user base and the upgraded console just gets the benefits of improved framerate and resolution with no other special attention given, then 2.) the opposite where the new version gets most of the attention and old version users are boned with whatever poor performance and fidelity they get as their version wasn't the primary focus. I just don't see all versions being equally optimized.
Your average console gamer is your MADDEN/Call of Duty gamer. They care about graphics enough that they wouldn't get a WiiU to play their games, but not enough that it's a reason of why they purchased a console.
Obliterator
Member
Yeah I mean we just had a scenario like this happen last year with n3DS and it was a huge success. And it wasn't even all that well supported and consumers ate it up.
Yeah thats truth. The console industry is the only form of technology still using the long term "cycle' idea. Its a bit archaic compared to all other consumer technologies
Insane Metal
Member
No, this will never work.
I would love to be able to buy faster consoles and to put my existing ones in a spare room in the house.
Playing anything on them already feels like a degraded experience to playing something on PC.
Now, they would never be able to do things that are unique to those new consoles, or stop supporting the old versions. Having to QA on the low spec and then just have it run better (solid 60fps..) on a high spec wouldn't be that much extra effort.
Playing anything on them already feels like a degraded experience to playing something on PC.
Now, they would never be able to do things that are unique to those new consoles, or stop supporting the old versions. Having to QA on the low spec and then just have it run better (solid 60fps..) on a high spec wouldn't be that much extra effort.