Different languages operate differently, that's all well and fine. But changing costumes of plot points has nothing to do with that. Removing or changing that kind of stuff just removes the footprint the original culture has in the game. Removing and changing that kind of stuff makes the game release pointless overseas in a way. I mean, what's the pint of playing foreign games if their foreign nature is softened for no real reason other that "has to be just like the stuff we make here".
Normally this is where you import to get the real foreign nature of the game because a lot of things may not or will not ever mix well outside of some countries. There are old Poland, Slovakian, and other European movies and cartoons I have watched that have had their scripts altered entirely for American consumption because the dialogue and things that happen do not mix. You have to find a subtitled version by some fans and hope it's a good accurate translation or learn the language yourself for the best 1:1. And fan translation can often be messy, or choose to keep certain words in, like honorifics or words that do have an English equivalent left in Japanese which forces all of these dumb and terrible translations that force you to read what a word means rather than just reading the dialogue and seeing what's happening. Particularly annoyed with that last one, like that literal translation of Chrono Trigger. Good work leaving Frog's name in Japanese even though it literally means frog.
But anyway, usually the best way to learn about another culture and to appreciate another culture is to learn the language, visit and even import their goods. Localization has never and will never be able to offer this to such a high degree and will make decisions best for the culture and their market. How much is changed, altered or removed will always vary from game to game, and those saying "fuck NOA" probably don't even realize how much is altered in the goods their buying on a regular bases from a number of companies the world over.
The secret potion drink is a bit offputting for sure, but the guy in the video makes a good point in that if it was just a Harry Potter-ass spell, no one would care. Hell those Harry Potter spells are pretty creepy if you think about it.
One of Harry's stalker-girlfriends tried to love-potion Harry, and roofied Ron instead. It was funny.
Harry roofied Ron's drink on the day of the big game (whoops no, he didn't actually go through with it cuz roofies are expensive, and tricking Ron into thinking he was roofied worked just as well).
BTW, it is interesting that murder is handled extremely glibly in many games with very little controversy among gamers in general. You can hack depictions of people apart or reduce heads and arms to churning gore while seldom facing any in-game consequences (you're usually rewarded). Some gamers' reactions to other controversial gameplay or story elements really opens a window to the horror some non-gamers or parents feel when they see what is happening in some games.
One of the party members is basically a serial killer, actually - who kills servants of her family, not just bandits and enemy soldiers. I wonder if that won't be softened up somehow too...
Here y'go. This is someone who can read japanese and explains it simply. Wherever this came from, someone got butt-hurt and took it the wrong, stupid way.
I'm shocked that people are actually so simple to get to jump on the bandwagon.
No one actually cares about the original content. By now Destructoid's original clickbaity story has probably gotten the game ten times more attention than it would have normally. I mean, their source was an angry reactionary tumblr blog to boot.
And whatever Nintendo marketing person wrote "conversion therapy" intentionally did so whether it was or wasn't included because it's such an offensive issue you're guaranteed to have a couple hundred incensed people regardless of its original background or context. Honestly I have to wonder if they did knowing it'll generate controversy or if the Nintendo rep actually believed what they're saying.
Either way it's not like we didn't know this game's writing was weak in the first place, there's been threads for around a month now going "gameplay good story bad".
Still I'm glad you and others have pointed out the original dialogue was not nearly as offensive as all these articles make it out to be.
As for the rewrites, they'll probably just turn this into another Henry like in FE:Awakening. Remember "magic school"? Yeah none of that existed in the original Awakening.
Im laughing when i think of whats gonna happen when NOA finally decides to tackle Mother 3's localization. The Magypsies will be the first to get changed and people will just deal with it cause we're so used to this treatment by now.
Why is one of her gloves rolled up while the other one isn't? #LegitBothered
After watching that video, the previous explanations do seem rather disingenuous. She basically gets hot and bothered by all the honeys on the battlefield, and then can't perform her duties. She sees this as a problem, not because she's attracted to women, but because she can't fight as well. The main character then gives her a magic potion to make her see guys as girls and vice versa, so she can practice talking to Fake Girl Protagonist and thus not be nervous around girls. It works and she continues to murder nameless bandits. Protagonist then asks her to marry him in their next conversation because why not. She accepts because she was enamored with Fake Girl Protagonist, but even as a dude, he's still pretty great.
It's definitely a WEIRD plotline, but it's a far cry from "The protagonist uses a date rape drug to cure another's homosexuality." It never says that Soliel DOESN'T like guys, nor is it implied that she stops liking girls even after she agrees to marry the male protag. The secret potion drink is a bit offputting for sure, but the guy in the video makes a good point in that if it was just a Harry Potter-ass spell, no one would care. Hell those Harry Potter spells are pretty creepy if you think about it.
Obscura: Causes a blindfold to appear over the victim's eyes, obstructing his/her view of their surroundings.
Silencio: Silences something immediately
Hold up, before you say Trojita what the fuck! why are you trying to destroy my favorite book series, hear me out.
"Love Potions" exist in the Wizard world in Harry Potter. There isn't just one but several. The twin Weasley's in particular made a business selling them at their store.
The first four are supposed to cause the drinker to become infatuated with the giver of the potion. The last, Amortentia, is the most powerful Love Potion in existence. It causes a powerful infatuation or obsession from the drinker. Adding onto that the drink smells like the best thing ever.
With the potion out of the way, let's talk about the spells. Specifically I'm going to bring up the Imperius Curse. It is one of the most powerful and sinister spells known to wizardkind. When cast successfully, the curse places the victim completely under the caster's control.
Unlike the other unforgivable curses, being subjected to the Imperius Curse, when adequately cast, is not an unpleasant experience, in fact, quite the opposite; the victim of an Imperius Curse is placed in a calm, trance-like state in which all feeling of responsibility and anxiety is banished.
There are two plot points in particular that back up the statement made in the subject title. Only one of these appeared in the movies, I believe, so movie watchers only might be confused.
1. The first deals with a girl, Romilda Vane of Gryffindor, that tried to give Harry a Love Potion so that he would fall in love with her.
During Christmas one year, when Harry was invited to Professor Slughorn's lavish Christmas party, Romilda plotted with her friends in the girls' bathroom to somehow give Harry a love potion from Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes, which would make him ask one of them to be his guest to the party. Hermione Granger overheard this, and warned Harry. When he returned to the common room, Romilda initially tried to give Harry gillywater, but he refused. Instead, she forced a package of Chocolate Cauldrons, both of which were spiked with love potion, into his hands. She also made hints about wanting to go to the party with him, which Harry ignored.
Harry proceeded to stow the love potion-spiked Chocolate Cauldrons away in his trunk until March, when, while he was looking for the Marauder's Map, he tossed them on the floor. Ron Weasley, believing they were one of his birthday presents that had fallen off his bed, picked them up and ate them. Ron suddenly became obsessively infatuated with Romilda, to the point that he declared his love for her in front of Harry, then punched him when the former asked if it was a joke, and attempted to wrestle his way into Slughorn's office, believing she was in there. This led to Horace Slughorn giving Ron an antidote. Believing it was a "tonic for the nerves," Ron drank it and the potion's effects ceased. Soon afterward, he was poisoned by a bottle of oak matured mead that was meant for Albus Dumbledore.
2. Is a pretty big plot point in the past
Harry Potter Book's 6&7 spoilers
A young witch named Merope Gaunt uses a love potion or curse to force the richest attractive muggle bachelor in the town,
Tom Riddle
, to fall in love with her. They were married, had sex, she got pregnant, and they had a son. All this time he was under her spell. At some point in time while she was pregnant, Merope decided to remove the spell, thinking that after all this time he would have to love her for real now. This was not the case. Instead of being happy or in love with her,
Tom Riddle
was revolted by the whole situation. He left her pregnant and destitute. She died shortly later, leaving her son that was born to go to an orphanage. This son was
Tom Marvolo Riddle
, or who you might better know as
Lord Voldemort
.
Yes, going along with Dumbledore's whole dumb speech about how Harry was everything good and loving and
Voldemort was not, the big bad of the series was also born from date rape.
Of all the dastardly things Wizards can do, this is the one that you bring up? Seriously?
How about the fact that Wizards in the HP universe have the ability to solve most, if not all, of the major problems in the muggle world. Starvation, most diseases, wealth inequality could all be largely wiped out in a matter of years if Wizards came out in the open. The environment could be repaired post haste. Species nearing extinction could be reversed. And lets not get started on combing magic with muggle technology, imagine the leaps and bounds humanity could take with that combination!
But instead, wizards and witches hide from the world, keeping all their humanity saving abilities to themselves while the muggles keep on keeping on as their world slowly collapses. You think wizards have to worry about global warming? a sudden onset of the black plague? Mass extinction? Hell no, they have spells, potions, and items to combat all of that! They could hide in their tiny magical little kingdoms forever while muggles get wiped out.
Seriously, fuck the wizards in that universe. All of them are elitist pricks who would rather horde their powers than share them with the world. Complain about house Slytherin still existing? Pfft, all wizards are House Slytherin. Some just hide it better than others.
If you've got a half hour to kill, I think the least confusing way to look at the situation is to watch the scene people are going on about, with some basic translation.
Of course one could be sexually attracted exclusively to men while at the same time be completely infatuated by women. Just like one could look and act much younger than she actually is.
It's just that the game, being what it is, presents it in such an extreme and simplistic writing that it comes of as stupid under the best light and fetish fuel under the worst.
Normally this is where you import to get the real foreign nature of the game because a lot of things may not or will not ever mix well outside of some countries. There are old Poland, Slovakian, and other European movies and cartoons I have watched that have had their scripts altered entirely for American consumption because the dialogue and things that happen do not mix. You have to find a subtitled version by some fans and hope it's a good accurate translation or learn the language yourself for the best 1:1. And fan translation can often be messy, or choose to keep certain words in, like honorifics or words that do have an English equivalent left in Japanese which forces all of these dumb and terrible translations that force you to read what a word means rather than just reading the dialogue and seeing what's happening. Particularly annoyed with that last one, like that literal translation of Chrono Trigger. Good work leaving Frog's name in Japanese even though it literally means frog.
But anyway, usually the best way to learn about another culture and to appreciate another culture is to learn the language, visit and even import their goods. Localization has never and will never be able to offer this to such a high degree and will make decisions best for the culture and their market. How much is changed, altered or removed will always vary from game to game, and those saying "fuck NOA" probably don't even realize how much is altered in the goods their buying on a regular bases from a number of companies the world over.
This. Highlighted is most important though. Just because other games aren't as 'controversial' doesn't mean they don't go through the same process of changing/excising content. If you want to play the original game, as it was made for the original audience, the only truly pragmatic thing to do is to learn the original language. Every other option still has its flaws, unfortunately.
In the Japanese version...One of the female characters, Soleil, is attracted to women, and often gets flustered and weak in the knees when she's around them. She often fears that she can't be a "strong and cool woman" because of this. Later in the support conversations if you pair her up with the male protagonist, he spikes her drink with a "magic powder" that makes her see women as men and vice-versa to help her "practice" around women. This was done without her knowing, as she fails to recognize the protagonist at the start of the conversation. Once the magic wore off, she found herself attracted to the male protagonist, and ends up proposing to him, saying that she fell in love with the female version of him, but now loves him as a male.
Nah, proper advertising did. Besides, most of the people who picked up the series with Awakening like the ability to ship characters, not whatever creepy shit you think they like, lol.
You cannot do as well as Awakening and Fates have done sales-wise just by appealing to otaku. They're simply not a significant enough market for that.
Isn't it mostly otakus who are the whales supporting the anime industry? That's why there are so many fanservice shows and the ones with substance or thematic depth have barely enough DVD/Blu Ray sales to cover costs for another season? I'm guessing catering to otakus is a pretty financially reliable investment.
Isn't it mostly otakus who are the whales supporting the anime industry? That's why there are so many fanservice shows and the ones with substance or thematic depth have barely enough DVD/Blu Ray sales to cover costs for another season? I'm guessing catering to otakus is a pretty financially reliable investment.
Anime at best generally sells between 5k to 10k, with most "big success of the year" making it to 20k, and you can basically count the shows that go above that. Every season there are many fan service focused series that fail to even get to 2k. They're supporting the (late night) anime industry because they're the only ones willing to pay Blu-Ray/DVD prices in Japan, not because it's some healthy market.
Im laughing when i think of whats gonna happen when NOA finally decides to tackle Mother 3's localization. The Magypsies will be the first to get changed and people will just deal with it cause we're so used to this treatment by now.
Isn't it mostly otakus who are the whales supporting the anime industry? That's why there are so many fanservice shows and the ones with substance or thematic depth have barely enough DVD/Blu Ray sales to cover costs for another season? I'm guessing catering to otakus is a pretty financially reliable investment.
The post below yours covers it pretty well. Anime doesn't sell in the first place, and if not for otaku buying merchandise would not continue exist at all.
FE: Awakening, on the other hand, sold 2 million copies worldwide...
It's not gay conversion therapy. The female character isn't lesbian, she's straight, with intense womanizing (inherited from her father) grafted onto her character for comedic effect.
I love how you guys are saying this as if its not the dumbest goddamn idea for a character ever, and INCREDIBLY OFFENSIVE anyway!
Like, can you even imagine this being reversed?
"Oh hey he's not straight, he just likes hitting on women but he really loves men!"
Its utterly bizarre and really indefensible.
If they'd made her bi, and able to be romanced by male and female characters, that would mitigate a lot. But that plus the objectively super gross drugging scene pretty much demonstrates a complete lack of respect for non-heterosexual identities. (and don't bring up the gay and lesbian options, yes they exist, but they have their own major issues with how they are depicted)
It is unbelievable how many people in this thread are totally onboard with the idea of "oh she likes hitting on girls but as soon as she gets some dick in her she's totally straight!"
LOL they couldn't make it simple could they. All they had to do was have the main character explain to her that he knows some magic that would help out her fainting problem and that's it. Or they could have just made her a Bi character and leave out her fainting problem. Simple people.
And then you watch the scene, and you see that the "drugging" is done off-camera, and the MC then approaches her, tells her exactly what's going on with the drug use as well, and they try to combat the problem she's having.
Out of context it sounds horrendous, but in-game it just seems like a really shitty character flaw. She's hopelessly attracted to women to the point where out of battle she can't really function(to a point where she even hits on her own mother), but she has no actual romantic interest in the opposite sex. By working with her problem and trying to solve it(doesn't happen), she falls for the MC apparently.
Ridiculously silly writing from all angles, but not nearly as malicious as the article makes it sound. Guess it should make sense in that one scene can be easily removed and literally nothing of value is lost.
Anime at best generally sells between 5k to 10k, with most "big success of the year" making it to 20k, and you can basically count the shows that go above that. Every season there are many fan service focused series that fail to even get to 2k. They're supporting the (late night) anime industry because they're the only ones willing to pay Blu-Ray/DVD prices in Japan, not because it's some healthy market.
The post below yours covers it pretty well. Anime doesn't sell in the first place, and if not for otaku buying merchandise would not continue exist at all.
FE: Awakening, on the other hand, sold 2 million copies worldwide...
You realise both your posts support my argument that otakus are the main ones supporting the anime industry? If otakus are the ones who can pay for the expensive blu ray/dvd prices and merchandise, then they're the ones keeping it afloat which is why there's pandering to them. Maybe not all fanservice shows are successful, that's just a given in a business with competition from various shows.
Of course they are, but my argument is that Awakening wasn't successful because it appealed to otaku alone. It sales numbers are proof positive of that.
You realise both your posts support my argument that otakus are the main ones supporting the anime industry? If otakus are the ones who can pay for the expensive blu ray/dvd prices and merchandise, then they're the ones keeping it afloat which is why there's pandering to them. Maybe not all fanservice shows are successful, that's just a given in a business with competition from various shows.
The point is that those numbers are very low for the game industry, so it makes no sense to think that something like Awakening and Fates, that both sold more than 500k, target them.
Isn't it mostly otakus who are the whales supporting the anime industry? That's why there are so many fanservice shows and the ones with substance or thematic depth have barely enough DVD/Blu Ray sales to cover costs for another season? I'm guessing catering to otakus is a pretty financially reliable investment.
Don't remind me of this. I'm glad Jojo is fabulous enough to eek by on a shoe string budget but it saddens me deeply that almost 20 years later Berserk continues to be in adaptation budget hell.
Here y'go. This is someone who can read japanese and explains it simply. Wherever this came from, someone got butt-hurt and took it the wrong, stupid way.
I'm shocked that people are actually so simple to get to jump on the bandwagon.
It's funny. I haven't cared about Fire Emblem, but the gameplay and explanations in that video actually got me interested in it. Too bad even Nintendo is taking it out of context and thus censoring their games yet again. Now I don't care anymore.
If the clarification of the scene is to be believed, the consent was there so I guess there shouldn't be a problem then. Would be nice if it was added to the OP to minimize drive by posting.
I'm glad Jojo is fabulous enough to eek by on a shoe string budget but it saddens me deeply that almost 20 years later Berserk continues to be in adaptation budget hell.
If the translation in the 30 minute video is correct, I don't know how they are gonna make the hitting on your mom and asking your dad what moves he used on her not the creepiest ever.
The whole helping her remain composed around ladies she likes plot is salvageable to some degree. If the mc informs her first of what the drink does and she gets all excited at the idea of seeing her male companions as ladies then she can agree to take it and try the composure practice. (I adore that she points out she has a type and makes the mc work to try and appeal to her).
How you get from there to accepting a marriage proposal from a guy I don't know. There needs to be more bisexual hints somewhere in the game and more time spent bonding with the mc for it to feel plausible.
I also see no way to excuse the lack of consent in the Japanese version. What they intended doesn't matter. Perception matters. Nintendo could have brought the game over as is and probably should have so that the content could be appropriately criticised for it's failings.
*this is probably going to be my first fire emblem game. This thread is preparing me to have to accept a lot of tropes I don't care for to get the combat and stories I am interested in. While I'm not here for the romances I am sad there is no option to romance this character as a lady. We could be fierce battle maidens togeather
They'd be better off removing the character completely at that point. Such a disappointment, both with the original content, the mistranslation, and the need to change it. A gross mess all around.
I sure hope everyone who says its a mistranslation and we just don't understand ~Japanese Culture~ knows that there is a Japanese website about how upsetting Japanese (!) LGBT (WOW THOSE EXIST!) people found several aspects of this game.
No one culture is the center of the universe, and I never stated such, or even implied it. Out of context, perhaps, but I also recommended playing it in Japanese if you wanted the true cultural experience. You should judge a product by the culture it is presented in: for an American localization, you should judge it against American culture, not Japanese culture. If you want the Japanese cultural experience of this game, it is necessary to experience it in Japanese, not English. Anything else will still detract from the cultural value of the game against the metric you are using.
I sure hope everyone who says its a mistranslation and we just don't understand ~Japanese Culture~ knows that there is a Japanese website about how upsetting Japanese (!) LGBT (WOW THOSE EXIST!) people found several aspects of this game.
Pointing out a blog that aggregates random opinions online doesnt mean it's representative of a general acceptance among the culture, or that they are correct in their anger and such.
Also, Im sure that some LGBT members were upset about certain things because they are horribly written and shallow, but it's hard for me to understand what they are complaining about in specific since I have neither played the game, nor can I understand the language of the blog. Instead of posting a passive aggressive remark, could you please explain to us what certain individuals in said blog site are saying so we know what they are saying?
