Tom Clancy's The Division |OT2| The Wolves of Wall Street

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Gator86 said:
From the example the other poster mentioned, if someone throws a grenade at a Cleaner and another player dives into the explosion intentionally at the last second, the first person wouldn't be branded as some villain and hunted down as a rogue agent. That premise is genuinely stupid. The rogue idea is fine; the execution is bad.
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It has it's quirks, sure. I was just talking about the in-universe story matching up.

Stealthcobra said:
Whats HE DT?
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High End (Yellow/Gold) Division Tech.
 
You can't go rogue without throwing a 'nade or pulling the trigger. It's always been advertised as a pvp section where anything goes. If you don't like it stay away from other players and be cognizant of your surroundings (which you should always be doing in the DZ) it's not too hard. That being said actual cheating like clipping in and out of geometry to kill people as that poster mentioned on PC is something that should be fixed.
 
deadduck said:
Accidentally going rogue is part of the fun, need to be aware of the dangers of engaging.

That being said no one can 'make you rogue', you always have pulled the trigger, or thrown a nade.

Sometimes I get sick of the baiting and just kill them anyway. It's just a game and it's not as if you lose much now.
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I think it's bad design partly because it detracts from more interesting scenarios. Without the accidental rogue issues, people could cooperate more which would facilitate people sticking together more. People sticking together more would allow for more chances to backstab people and ambush them. It would make the DZ more interesting. Right now, everyone just avoids everyone else because there's zero incentive to ever be near another group.
 
was playing with Death and a few Gaffers here and we came upon another group and everyone was just cautious with each other and we waved to each other and went our separate ways. i love that stuff. playing DZ solo is too tense for me.
 
WheelHoss1 said:
Guess I'm one of those jerks laughing his ass off in a party with my friends clapping when I spawn kill you over and over.

Grow up.
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I've killed a lot of people in the DZ but I have some morals though. I don't camp safe houses nor spawn points since for example when you leave a safe house, there's a downtime for a few seconds before you can actually move or shoot. I at least wanna fight people straight up. That's just my 2 cents though, bruh. You do you.
 
Gator86 said:
I think it's bad design partly because it detracts from more interesting scenarios. Without the accidental rogue issues, people could cooperate more which would facilitate people sticking together more. People sticking together more would allow for more chances to backstab people and ambush them. It would make the DZ more interesting. Right now, everyone just avoids everyone else because there's zero incentive to ever be near another group.
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Yeah but that has nothing to do with the rogue baiting and everything to do with the nature of the dark zone. You're not supposed to trust other players. And you're exaggerating a bit. I've seen large swaths of players grouping together in the DZ without rogue baiting, especially in the higher DZs, during extractions, and man hunts.
 
Had my first authentic rogue experience today. Was pretty tight with these 2 randoms for 2 extractions. Went into the subway and we wipe. This one dude steals this jacket I like from my dead body.

Killed them as they were extracting and took back the jacket. Don't steal from your friends.
 
Gator86 said:
Right now, everyone just avoids everyone else because there's zero incentive to ever be near another group.
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I like to go where the trouble is.

Other groups have loot, other groups all gather at once on extract, other groups go too far up the DZ and aren't always strong enough.

Opportunity knocks and players can have better loot than bosses.
 
chogidogs said:
Had my first authentic rogue experience today. Was pretty tight with these 2 randoms for 2 extractions. Went into the subway and we wipe. This one dude steals this jacket I like from my dead body.

Killed them as they were extracting and took back the jacket. Don't steal from your friends.
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I know that feel. I was chillin in the DZ just testing out some new gear and happened to find a modern slouchy. It was all I wanted to extract since I didn't find any other loot in the short period of time. Then some mofo went rogue on me at an extraction and I was like nahhh, you ain't taking my clothes, boy.
 
Sorry to say, but that clip above of the nade was not griefing. That guy who tossed the nade took a risk and he payed the price for that risk.

Personally, I wouldn't have shot him/her because I have made dumb decisions before in the dark zone and they let me go even when it was 4 vs 1, they knew it was a mistake. But I wouldn't have been mad if they did just turn around and kill me because if I took a risk and failed it was my mistake that put me there.
 
alife said:
I know that feel. I was chillin in the DZ just testing out some new gear and happened to find a modern slouchy. It was all I wanted to extract since I didn't find any other loot in the short period of time. Then some mofo went rogue on me at an extraction and I was like nahhh, you ain't taking my clothes, boy.
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Extracted a modern slouchy today. Was so jazzed. Been wanting one for the longest!! Now I have everything in black.
 
Just survived a manhunt in a 4 person group and its pretty damn exciting.

Ubisoft has to do something about these hackers though.
 
Devilinthiscity said:
The DZ is a cruel place. Helped a down solo player from dying only to be left dying in front of him after I got caught off guard by a sniper. Dude was just waiting for me to die.
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When I am in the DZ, I only go there to rank up. I imagine that all the gear and currency I will lose. Makes it easier to handle and every successful adventure makes me happy.
 
There are a million other games with grief free, sanitized multiplayer experiences. I want the DZ to be an unscrupulous den of man's worst tendencies. That's what makes it unique.
 
And there can be cooperation in the DZ too. There were these two rogues that kept tracking down my friend and I and another group of two. All four of us finally cornered the rogues and killed them but I got downed and dropped all my stuff. Those two dudes could've killed my buddy and snagged my stuff and I wouldn't have been mad. They could've stood in the way of our fire and I wouldn't have been mad. The dark zone isn't about being fair but there should be exceptions like spawn camping for example.
 
Still no new info when they gonna fix the backpack glitch that locked people out? So sad, everybody is grinding for he gear and we cannot play :(
 
alife said:
I've killed a lot of people in the DZ but I have some morals though. I don't camp safe houses nor spawn points since for example when you leave a safe house, there's a downtime for a few seconds before you can actually move or shoot. I at least wanna fight people straight up. That's just my 2 cents though, bruh. You do you.
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I feel you. It was more like this one dude kept coming out of the same CP to get revenge and we kept wrecking him. I didn't even know about the spawning in thing.

We used to hide when we got manhunt but now we just look for a fight. There's no dedicated PVP mode in the Division (☹️) so what else are we going to do except go back to Deadstiny . . .
 
NecromorphTX said:
Maybe, there's a lot of jerks in DZ who can't go alone because they're too cowards.
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125b64fbf8c2eae054f266cf6465f19f.gif
 
WheelHoss1 said:
I feel you. It was more like this one dude kept coming out of the same CP to get revenge and we kept wrecking him. I didn't even know about the spawning in thing.

We used to hide when we got manhunt but now we just look for a fight. There's no dedicated PVP mode in the Division (☹️) so what else are we going to do except go back to Deadstiny . . .
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Well in that case, the dude was just asking for it, haha. Yeah, the downtime after leaving a checkpoint or safe house is kinda annoying. Was in a group with 2 other people and had a mob of like 6-7 players try to gank us after we restocked. It didn't work though.
 
EloquentM said:
Yeah but that has nothing to do with the rogue baiting and everything to do with the nature of the dark zone. You're not supposed to trust other players. And you're exaggerating a bit. I've seen large swaths of players grouping together in the DZ without rogue baiting, especially in the higher DZs, during extractions, and man hunts.
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Rogue baiting definitely plays a role in the decision to avoid other groups. I've played with tons of people who immediately want to leave an area when another group shows up, not because we're worried about getting jumped, but just because it's irritating to have other people running in and out of your line of fire when you're trying to collect division tech or something.

There's tons of stuff Massive could do to improve the DZ. They could make the color of your DZ bag the same color as the highest level item you've found. Finding and extracting a HE item would be incredibly tense as everyone you run into would be able to tell you have a great item.

The current DZ just kind of feels like Massive had a good idea and threw some stuff at the wall. The DZ should be tense and strategic. Instead, it's mostly this
https://youtu.be/Zg0kX1gS0mo
 
EloquentM said:
And there can be cooperation in the DZ too. There were these two rogues that kept tracking down my friend and I and another group of two. All four of us finally cornered the rogues and killed them but I got downed and dropped all my stuff. Those two dudes could've killed my buddy and snagged my stuff and I wouldn't have been mad. They could've stood in the way of our fire and I wouldn't have been mad. The dark zone isn't about being fair but there should be exceptions like spawn camping for example.
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This is fantastic.

Just a reminder that this discussion began with people purposely rogue baiting.

This is what the DZ should strive for. Not exploits, hacks and griefers.

Sorry but that's my feeling.
 
If they made PvE more worthwhile and allow us to farm PvE HE mats as well so people who want the dark zone can enjoy that fuck fest all to themselves while we farm challenge or something a little bit between challenge and hard to get HE PvE mats.


Instead we have two forms of play that are fucked both ways


So that way HE DZ mats, HE World mats that are separate from the ones we have now
 
Gator86 said:
Rogue baiting definitely plays a role in the decision to avoid other groups. I've played with tons of people who immediately want to leave an area when another group shows up, not because we're worried about getting jumped, but just because it's irritating to have other people running in and out of your line of fire when you're trying to collect division tech or something.

There's tons of stuff Massive could do to improve the DZ. They could make the color of your DZ bag the same color as the highest level item you've found. Finding and extracting a HE item would be incredibly tense as everyone you run into would be able to tell you have a great item.

The current DZ just kind of feels like Massive had a good idea and threw some stuff at the wall. The DZ should be tense and strategic. Instead, it's mostly this
https://youtu.be/Zg0kX1gS0mo
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Holy fuck yes!!! This!!! I'm laughing my ass off.

Finally someone has coined what the mess is like. All the griefers are this idiotic goalie. Thank you =]
 
WheelHoss1 said:
I've gone rogue solo plenty of times. Should do it more tbh

Was on several manhunts today with just a buddy. Was a good challenge and got rekt a few times.
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Going rogue can be fun sometimes, i can't say the opposite, but i'm the kind of person who like to play in the other part of the street (co-op and helping another people, that's why i have a tank/medic build).

Well, in reference of the last part of the story in the game, DZ needs to be the pit of the worst kind of people. I don't like it, but some things needs to be in that way.
 
There's accidentally shooting someone, then there's players shooting at you in the hopes you shoot back. Then there's the nob end groups I've come across a few times with four players who just follow you around and stand in your way constantly and followed me round for 15 minutes before I just gave up and left the DZ. I tried walking around to a different entrance in the hopes of losing them, but they came across me again trying extract, such a pain in the ass.

I don't mind most of the annoying things, and I hate myself and stupid ass players who walk into my line of fire, but following players around constantly just getting in the way is just it's own league of lame.
 
Frenden said:
There are a million other games with grief free, sanitized multiplayer experiences. I want the DZ to be an unscrupulous den of man's worst tendencies. That's what makes it unique.
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Opinions, he would like dz to be fair you want it dirty both are valid.What if he likes this game and not the other "million" games its like someone telling you to play Dayz if you want a "den of man's worst tendencies".Massive did fuck up by forcing DZ for the best loot.Some people like myself like pve but we're forced to deal with ganking by higher level players just to get 31 gear and thats never fun

Today I got my first HE drop in dz a Midas then i filled my bag with junk to help the odds of not losing it.I make it to an extraction some guys are there extracting but they wait till i start putting my loot on the rope and they downed me and ofcourse my Midas is public loot.:(
 
NoHeDidn't said:
Opinions, he would like dz to be fair you want it dirty both are valid.What if he likes this game and not the other "million" games its like someone telling you to play Dayz if you want a "den of man's worst tendencies".Massive did fuck up by forcing DZ for the best loot.Some people like myself like pve but we're forced to deal with ganking by higher level players just to get 31 gear and thats never fun

Today I got my first HE drop in dz a Midas then i filled my bag with junk to help the odds of not losing it.I make it to an extraction some guys are there extracting but they wait till i start putting my loot on the rope and they downed me and ofcourse my Midas is public loot.:(
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I guess you didn't watch the Division trailer about the DZ
 
Getting booted from parties before even loading in in matchmaking, and missions just not starting up properly -- both getting on my nerves almost every day when I'm trying to get my dailies done.
 
deadduck said:
Sometimes I get sick of the baiting and just kill them anyway. It's just a game and it's not as if you lose much now.
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This. The guys doing Rogue baiting depend on you shooting and then stopping when you realize you went Rogue. Just mow them down.
 
So I'm around level 20, and Dark Zone only around rank 10. I'd like to level up, what is the recommended way to do so if I don't currently have friends online to party up?

Is there anything in the Dark Zone worth trying to solo?
 
SumptuousLemur said:
Agreed, not to mention that DPS displayed isn't always accurate and the issues with mods providing improper DPS stats. It's fairly broken in that regard.

The loot system makes 99% of the gear you get useless and there just isn't a good positive reinforcement cycle due to it. Most will say it's for mats but at the point when you're grinding to DZ 50 and going after HE Division Tech means those mats are useless. The game is basically filling your inventory with useless garbage that just wastes your time to review, deconstruct and such.

The game has been massively broken from a balance perspective. The first few days rewarded those that sped through to 30 with up to 15 credits per named kill in the DZ! Think about it being like that now for those like me that never got there that quick. Or BK which is only a week ago now. People are still picking up this game and it's barely now gotten to a point of balance but at the cost of people's faith in the games systems.

The loot system needs to be overhauled, especially crafting which should NEVER yield anything worse than what you have. I have crafted 2 dozen of the same weapon mod to never get one better than the random superior one that dropped at some point I don't even remember. Earning PC and then having the mats to craft a HE item is a big investment and shouldn't yield worse gear than what you find via RNG. It should be a guaranteed route to increasing your stats.

The loot and balance of the endgame is much worse then where Destiny was in its first month. Sure #Forever29 sucked but when you finally got that item it was at least what you needed and increased your stats to the point you expected it to. The current gear in The Division has so many stats and perks it becomes very convoluted to compare and contrast between what you have equipped and what you're inspecting and how it will change your stats and such. It feels way too complicated and not in the sense I want something dumbed down, but something that is better presented and explained to the player via UI prompts and details. The constant bugs in the UI displaying incorrect stats makes the comparison impossible sometimes unless your log out and back in. It's ridiculous and a major issue IMO.

The DZ needs stats/gear based matchmaking as well, since a Level 30 who just finished the campaign and probably has a mix of blues and purples is being put up against people with high stats and gear. It's completely unfair and doesn't allow proper balance in the DZ. This should also be done for the CM matchmaking since I've been matched with people who have 40k DPS and never beat a CM before. No thanks, I'll gladly carry and help my friends and people here but not some random person I've been matched with.

The game has a long way to go and hopefully we see patches like we saw earlier this week on a constant basis. However with the news that HE DT will never be craftable makes me think that we're dealing with a system they won't want to change to ensure they are making people bottleneck and play as much as possible. It's all purposeful for player retention.

I am at almost 6 days played in game, at 164/66/20 and all the current content is a breeze. The Dark Zone has breathed some new life for me since I hadn't explored it at all since the last day or so and I'm focusing on the collectibles now. So in the end I've gotten more than my money's worth paying $55 for this game on PS4. Everything is just gravy at this point but we still need these improvements to ensure people keep playing. It's not uncommon to go through a day playing this game without any progression when you hit the end game with HE DT and Rank 50 DZ and that's just plain boring.

Can't wait to play more DZ tonight! =]
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https://www.reddit.com/r/thedivision/comments/4c6txq/massive_is_making_the_same_mistake_blizzard_made/. This reddit thread basically explains the problem I have with it and having hundreds of hours into D3, its a lot like vanilla d3. right now your best way of getting a HE is crafting, so the game turns into a crafting simulator, and going around looting mat chests, not really killing anything. People want to kill things to get loot, not run chest to chest, but that's what they've been driven too by the system. Crafting should be a secondary option when the drops aren't going your way, not your main source of HE's. People used to do exploits with chests in D3 back in the day, but nowadays you get drops at such a decent rate just playing the game that I haven't seen anything like that in awhile. Its already RNG rolls on top of RNG drops, its ok to give people more drops to keep them engaged because it probably won't even be the rolls they want, but at least people are being rewarded for playing the game.
 
All upset about rogue bating? Let's be honest, even if he didn't run into the grenade, he would have just turned went rogue and killed that guy anyways.

The moral of the story is they allow a chance of Griefing in the game by design. Before there was penalty, and it was a choice, now there's no reason not to rogue. It was inevitable though because once people got geared they would go rogue and grief anyways. There's people that will find ways to grief others in games not like this. This game caters to them, encourages it, it's a love letter to them blocking progression is what people get off to most.

Curious to see how it plays out though when ubisoft sees more and more people quit playing, and the griefers only have other griefers to play against because people just do pve, or just quit. The DZs are a ghost land now anyways. And if you see anyone in there, expect to get shot so shoot first.

The thing that's a shame is that the main feature, risk/reward for going rogue, has little mystique and value to it anymore.
 
dLMN8R said:
So I'm around level 20, and Dark Zone only around rank 10. I'd like to level up, what is the recommended way to do so if I don't currently have friends online to party up?

Is there anything in the Dark Zone worth trying to solo?
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I'm kind of in the same spot, though I'm 27 now. I'm afraid to hit 30 and then be the smallest fish in the pond.
 
J-Rzez said:
Curious to see how it plays out though when ubisoft sees more and more people quit playing, and the griefers only have other griefers to play against because people just do pve, or just quit. The DZs are a ghost land now anyways. And if you see anyone in there, expect to get shot so shoot first.

The thing that's a shame is that the main feature, risk/reward for going rogue, has little mystique and value to it anymore.
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Hyperbole at it's finest. The DZ is not making people quit playing and they are not Ghost Lands. Sounds like you are projecting sir.
 
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