PRjumpman124
Member
I managed to finally beat the level 5 boss.... and I did it without getting hit :")
Enter The Gungeon |OT| Praise the gun
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Gravy Boat
Member
I'm loving this so far. I agree that the key RNG can be a bit shit sometimes. There's been more than a few times where I'm on the 3rd floor with just whatever weapons I've gotten from beating the bosses and the shop is locked behind a key. I don't mind not being able to open chests but not being able to enter the shop was a terrible design choice. Id prefer if the shop was always available for consistency.
Well, better and worse is quite an abstract concept. I'd say gameplay is similar, in a sense that both are dual stick shooters dungeon crawlers. But the games philosophies is different, in a way that Isaac's fun mostly comes from getting so overpowered you basically break the game, and Gungeon is more likely to rely on pure skill, the learning curve is steeper. Although it might happen that you become extremely OP it's a lot less likely and it might derive from the act that you became skilled to begin with.
Chronospherics
Member
I can't tell you if it will be better or worse for you, but I can tell you I enjoy it more than Issac.
But there are some aspects missing from Gungeon that are in Issac, that you might miss. For instance it doesn't seem possible to 'break' the game with certain combinations of passives and weapon upgrades, because everything is distributed through weapons which are relatively controlled compared to how upgrades appear in Issac.
That isn't a bad thing in my opinion, but Issac had a higher range of variability in terms of how powerful your item / weapon build could make you. Gungeon never really gets like that.
Large Professor
Member
Could someone explain to me how the girl and the giant robot shop work exactly? Thanks
The stuff you buy in the shop gets added to the loot/item pool.
And bosses drop the currency the shop uses when they are defeated.
Ahhh I see! Awesome. Are these items generally considered better than randomly dropped loot? As in, it's worth my while buying them and adding them to the item pool?
Absolutely, it's all part of the game adding them. Especially the passives
I'm playing the game on ps4 and so far I haven't had any real issues with the RNG. Yeah, sometimes I don't get to open every chest, but that's not really a big deal. When I think about how this game works compared to other games, I can't really see this game working if the drop rate of consumables was increased too much. A little more? Maybe. But not much more. For example, in Isaac, consumables can drop in almost every room, and many times you'll get more than one per room. Sometimes dozens. And that's fine for that game. A lot of the fun for people in Isaac is manipulating the RNG to become overpowered. But Gungeon seems to be trying to go the opposite route. It seems to want to avoid the player becoming overpowered at all costs. If we got consumable drops on most rooms, then we'd be leaving the first floor stacked with armor, blanks, and keys. Since the first two floors are so easy, we'd be going into later floors too powerful. Especially if we really could open every chest pretty much guaranteed.
There are some things I think they could do to balance it out though. I think the rate at which we get consumables is fine. I think the "coolness" stat works great, and I've noticed far more consumable drops in my recent playthroughs. I don't think they need to adjust the rate we get keys from drops, but instead, add an extra shelf to the shops that always contains one key, and re-work exactly what needs keys in the first place. If brown chests truly do contain lower tier items, then just never put locks on brown chests in the first place. And never put a lock on the shop. Pressure plate doors are better than locks anyway, as they force you to go through a longer gauntlet of enemies before reaching your destination.
As far as bosses go, I don't really have a big problem with any of them. They're hard, yes, but I think people cried "patch!" too quickly on that, as people tend to do.
There are some things I think they could do to balance it out though. I think the rate at which we get consumables is fine. I think the "coolness" stat works great, and I've noticed far more consumable drops in my recent playthroughs. I don't think they need to adjust the rate we get keys from drops, but instead, add an extra shelf to the shops that always contains one key, and re-work exactly what needs keys in the first place. If brown chests truly do contain lower tier items, then just never put locks on brown chests in the first place. And never put a lock on the shop. Pressure plate doors are better than locks anyway, as they force you to go through a longer gauntlet of enemies before reaching your destination.
As far as bosses go, I don't really have a big problem with any of them. They're hard, yes, but I think people cried "patch!" too quickly on that, as people tend to do.
Chronospherics
Member
The way I see it is that every boss should be designed to be beatable with the starting weapons and the reason the tank was overpowered proportionate to the stage that he appears was because this became overly difficult as additional enemies began stacking onto the screen.
If you're using a lower powered weapon that lacks any sort of AoE or homing then it was difficult to keep on top of the adds and boss, failing to do so created a boss fight that was vastly more challenging than alternative stage 3 bosses.
I usually didn't have a problem with him, but that was because I went in with decent weapons and shot the adds, then the fight is pretty simple, but using the starter weapons makes the fight unbelievably more challenging than doing the same with cannon balrog or door lord.
Well I don't know what the patch actually did. Did it just get rid of the adds? I do agree that the tank definitely is not equivalent to the other bosses on that floor.
And I suppose I agree with the notion that every boss should be beatable with the starter gun. Simply because I feel every boss should have patterns can be understood and flawlessed, no matter how long it might take. So if the patch just removed the adds, then that makes sense. Because them spawning offscreen and shooting at you from offscreen throws a wrench into the concept of understanding patterns.
But, the main point is, I think people need to be more careful and more willing to take the time to let the game sink in more, rather than immediately calling for patches within the game's very first week. But, this is the type of game where the devs tend to keep up with the community pretty quickly and regularly, so if they patch too far one way too quickly, then they'll patch back quickly enough as well. So it shouldn't end up being any real problem.
The main change was to make the adds not lead their shots which was the main source of difficulty in that fight. No other boss has you avoiding adds with leading shots while trying to dodge through bullet patterns so I find this to be a very reasonable change. It also made those homing shells not explode so close to you so you could have a reasonable shot to react to them with no movement speed bonuses.
Pre-patch Treadnaught with weak weapons was easily out of line with the other bosses. I could easily do any floor 3-5 boss with minimal damage using the starting marine weapon, but Treadnaught would just murder me because dodging targeted shots from adds was too much and keeping up with their removal with a shitty gun is not easy.
I know that the coolness rating does some of this already, but I wish there was more of a way of rewarding the player for doing good, as it stands, all the currencies and metrics and completely random, there should be more ways to earn keys, ammo, money outside of the RNG, as it stands you can play really well through the first 3 levels where you can still do well enough with lower end items, only to be shafted by the RNG.
Is the RNG truly random? or is it skewed? My runs always seem to be weighted towards rubbish runs, with the majority of my runs ending with one or two guns if I am lucky.
Is the RNG truly random? or is it skewed? My runs always seem to be weighted towards rubbish runs, with the majority of my runs ending with one or two guns if I am lucky.
It does, but there is no guarantee that weapon will be any good!Well, beating a boss without getting hit always gives you a weapon.
Chronospherics
Member
Nothing that will magically enable you to win, in case that's what you're after.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/311690/discussions/0/371918937280233884
They made secret room spawns more predictable and stopped people cheesing gattling gull by forcing him to use his awful melee attack over and over.
Also, people are still saying key drop rate buff is minor, and from what I have seen (given that I play both the PC and unpatched PS4 version. In total, it might amount to one extra key per run, but I wouldn't say it's very influential of a runs success overall.
Some discussion on this here
http://steamcommunity.com/app/311690/discussions/0/371918937280233884
It seems that the buff only increases keys on the first floor. On average I might be getting one extra. All other floors appear to remain the same.
Overall, it's still the same game that you took a break from a week ago.
Im at around 90 deaths now and made it a couple times to the last floor. Not a big fan of the balancing overall.
Often you have to clear the first two or three floors with your starter weapon because you need the loot for four and five.
I feel like im fighting the Asylum Demon with a broken sword most of the time.
Often you have to clear the first two or three floors with your starter weapon because you need the loot for four and five.
I feel like im fighting the Asylum Demon with a broken sword most of the time.
That's all it really needs though, in terms of key balance. Giving the players enough keys to open every chests would make them trivial and mess with the meta game. I feel like consistently getting one extra key drop on the first floor is enough. Another option would be to make the chests on floor one unlocked. Hiding the shop behind a keyed door is dumb though. I'd like to see them remove that.
That's the trap I fell into, you really don't need to conserve that much. There are definitely bad runs with bad weapons but I find that most of the time you can use the good weapons without worrying too much. Usually you'll either get an ammo drop or a better weapon when you're running low. There's a cascading effect with the 'coolness' attribute where playing good (ie not getting hit) lets you do better since you get more stuff.
That said, I haven't beat floor 5 yet either but that's mostly because I suck.
Yeah, you definitely shouldn't be using your starter guns on later floors just for the sake of saving resources for the boss. Using your good guns during the floor gives you better chances to get ammo and other drops since you'll get hit less. I ran out of ammo on my room clearing guns in my last run because I never got any amazing ones, so I was using my starters on floor 5 just to save my ammo on my boss killing gun (disintegrator). And I died before finding the boss because I wasted so much HP not using my good gun even though I needed it for the boss. If I had used it, I would have at least made it to the boss. And even if I lost to it, making it there and getting a chance is still better than not making it there at all. And I probably would have gotten more drops too.
Be smart, yeah, but don't be too stingy.
Be smart, yeah, but don't be too stingy.
Large Professor
Member
This time I was literally one shot away from beating
.
I feel it wasn't the best choice to keep the wax wings against his final form
, what do you guys think?
the dragun
I feel it wasn't the best choice to keep the wax wings against his final form
when you have to jump from one bullet-free zone to another
Here's how my weapon usage generally gets divided up:
1st floor: starting weapons - 100% (except for using best weapon for boss, same goes for all floors)
2nd floor: sw - 70%, good weapon - 30%
3rd floor: sw - 40-50%, good weapon 50-60%
4th floor: sw - (none unless I'm low on weapons/ammo) good weapon 70%, great weapon 30%
5th floor: 100% great weapons/best room clearing weapons I have.
I could probably be a bit less stingy on floor 3, but floors 1-3 are much easier than floor 4, and floor 4 is much easier than floor 5.
edit: Oh and the exception here is Pilot. I basically never try to use his pistol after floor 1 if I can manage.
1st floor: starting weapons - 100% (except for using best weapon for boss, same goes for all floors)
2nd floor: sw - 70%, good weapon - 30%
3rd floor: sw - 40-50%, good weapon 50-60%
4th floor: sw - (none unless I'm low on weapons/ammo) good weapon 70%, great weapon 30%
5th floor: 100% great weapons/best room clearing weapons I have.
I could probably be a bit less stingy on floor 3, but floors 1-3 are much easier than floor 4, and floor 4 is much easier than floor 5.
No 6th floor yet, I can go there but wanna get some more items in my pool/get good at boss rush first
edit: Oh and the exception here is Pilot. I basically never try to use his pistol after floor 1 if I can manage.
Large Professor
Member
The pillars are not that difficult once you understand their pattern.
Now the only boss I really struggle against is the wall.
Now the only boss I really struggle against is the wall.
there's an npc that will "bless" you (or something like that) if you pay her credits. It changes the run. Kinda fun, but only in a novel way.
Birgitte2004
Member
I just got R2G2 for the first time, and wow do I have a new favorite item. There are so many of the more difficult situations he makes so much easier, and he's fun to boot.
Getting there. Still have trouble with a few enemies here and there but once you understand enemy patterns most are only challenging when combined with annoying room layouts.
Getting there. Still have trouble with a few enemies here and there but once you understand enemy patterns most are only challenging when combined with annoying room layouts.
Salty Catfish
Member
You can't. He shows up once your "curse" stat gets too low (done by buying stuff from the demon chick or grabbing certain items) and will follow you fooooooooooooorever.
Pestilence11
Member
Holy fuck trying to get to the
on PS4 is an effort in frustration sometimes. Between there only being 1 or 2 keys available in Chamber 1 and the vendor having none to sell when you're short a key, it's fucking brutal and makes you quick restart several times in a row.
Abbey
Abbey?
Pestilence11
Member
My 2nd run of this - I got to lvl 3, and had the water gun with the 'bounce' modifier - and it crashed my PC. Was basically easy mode because I just spammed the gun until it filled the screen with water.
Does it crash like this often? Pretty fucking annoying, and almost makes me not want to play again.
Does it crash like this often? Pretty fucking annoying, and almost makes me not want to play again.
I've had no crash on my PS4 with about 10 hours of gameplay. Sibling has a bad laptop and is playing PC and has had none with 20 hours of gameplay.
Frozenprince
Banned
Is this Isaac with guns or Necrodancer with guns?
I don't think it's either, imo it's a twin stick bullet hell shmup with roguelike elements.
Large Professor
Member
I finally defeated the dragun, yeah!
I cleared almost all the bosses with the magic lamp, it's really a powerful gun.
Now, I'm probably going to focus on the Ox's arm quest, it sounds like fun.
I cleared almost all the bosses with the magic lamp, it's really a powerful gun.
Now, I'm probably going to focus on the Ox's arm quest, it sounds like fun.
I finally killed the past. Now for the other 3 lol. Such a good run had 6 hearts to and 6 armour by level 4 fucked it up big-time and went into dragun with half a heart and an armour luckily I had fast item recharge and lead skin item. Was basically invincible. Also I had a pig as a sidekick the run before who took the death shot for me. And I still didn't win lol but least his sacrifice wasn't in vain.
jim2point0
Banned
What is the advantage to fixing the elevator and taking shortcuts? Wouldn't you miss out on potential items and additional health from flawlessing bosses?
Pestilence11
Member
No reason other than doing it as a challenge really. I think most people ignore the shortcut once it's unlocked.
Pretty much. It's worth doing still because you unlock some nice things for doing so, but I've never bothered to use the shortcuts much because starting on lower floors with only a couple mediocre guns and 3 hearts is painful.
It's also kind of good if you're not that comfortable with a certain level and just want easy practice. You probably won't get super far with just the starter gun but at least you can learn each enemy and each possible room so that when you actually do a real run (from the start) there is less margin for error.
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