I enjoyed Batman v Superman more than Civil War, who is with me?

Are you with me?

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Yeezus H. Christ said:
I watched the movie twice so what you tried dismissing as bad action never actually happened in the film, but yes, Civil War has the greatest superhero action to date, bar none.

Airport scene is GOAT. How the Russos managed to make each Avenger stand out in the battle was nothing short of masterful.
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See even though I had more fun watching BvS I know CW was the better made movie. It does not have the greatest action of all the superhero movies though.

It doesn't pass WS or MoS in the best action scene. I think the Batman warehouse scene in BvS was also better.The airport scene was cool but not the greatest ever. I even thought it was until the excitement of the movie wore off.
 
Lex basically tells both Clark and Bruce he knows.

1. Clark is a nobody doing sports columns at the Planet. Why would Lex be excited about Bruce meeting him?
2. Lex smacks Clark with a loud unnatural thud and jokes "don't pick a fight with this guy".
3. Lex flat out tells Bruce he's up to some shady shit. And remember why Bruce is there in the first place.
 
Yeezus H. Christ said:
I watched the movie twice so what you tried dismissing as bad action never actually happened in the film, but yes, Civil War has the greatest superhero action to date, bar none.

Airport scene is GOAT. How the Russos managed to make each Avenger stand out in the battle was nothing short of masterful.
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Spider-Man 2, X-2, Incredibles, Blade 2, and Hellboy 2 (wow all 2s) have better action than Civil War. The amount of quick cuts and jank in the action scenes is so distracting. The CGI touch-ups or just straight up CGI action like Cap landing + rolling or running is the most awkward looking thing ever. Look at this action and tell me what's amazing about it; also, keep track of how Captain America moves, it's pretty awful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPDqb45P2Mg

Like, have you seen Blade 2?!
 
I enjoyed both movies but acting like Civil War is some untouchable masterclass of filmmaking is hilarious

I enjoyed Batman vs. Superman more because it isn't the same experience Marvel has been pumping out for the past 8 years.

The airport scene in Civil War was better than anything in Batman vs. Superman. A reveal near the end is better than anything in Batman vs. Superman. The rest of the movie? Who fucking cares.

Netherscourge said:
SvB is like the exact opposite of Civil War.

The superheroes in Civil War actually give a shit about hurting innocent humans.
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The entire premise of BvS is that the damage from the last movie was basically 9/11 and is the center for all conflict in the film. It's the same movie
 
Netherscourge said:
SvB is like the exact opposite of Civil War.

The superheroes in Civil War actually give a shit about hurting innocent humans.
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Jup, like remember that scene where Batman fucking rekt some cops who were just doing their job. Owh wait, nvm. That was Cap.
 
INST said:
Jup, like remember that scene where Batman fucking rekt some cops who were just doing their job. Owh wait, nvm. That was Cap.
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If Cap hadn't whooped their asses then Bucky would have either killed them or gotten captured. It was all necessary to save his bro.
 
The Icon said:
Lex basically tells both Clark and Bruce he knows.

1. Clark is a nobody doing sports columns at the Planet. Why would Lex be excited about Bruce meeting him?
2. Lex smacks Clark with a loud unnatural thud and jokes "don't pick a fight with this guy".
3. Lex flat out tells Bruce he's up to some shady shit. And remember why Bruce is there in the first place.
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How does he know at all? He just does?
 
flaxknuckles said:
If Cap hadn't whooped their asses then Bucky would have either killed them or gotten captured. It was all necessary to save his bro.
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So far for giving a shit.

I know, his statement was just fucking dumb
 
Zen_Arcade said:
You say that like Superman had some kind of consistent fighting style between BvS and Man Of Steel, which he doesn't. For superhero movies, it's relatively detailed. Especially when they were juggling over half a dozen hand to hand combat characters.
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Thats kind of the point they were making in BvS. Superman is this unbreakable superhero who through sheer strength defeats his enemies. But when he loses that strength he's very vulnerable, he doesn't have the technique, or wit that Batflack possesses.

And it's not hard to juggle half a dozen characters. Did you expect that Capt would start shooting web out of his wrist? Or Black Widow would fly around shooting lasers? It very obvious and easy to understand what moves everyone does.
 
Netherscourge said:
SvB is like the exact opposite of Civil War.

The superheroes in Civil War actually give a shit about hurting innocent humans.
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Super conveniently, both Hulk and Thor are missing.

Hulk's absence is the worst, because they decide to listen to Thunderbolt Ross, who turned a foreign juice factory and a college campus into warzones. Created his own Hulk-level "enhanced human". Did the Avengers learn nothing from Bruce?

Nevermind that SHIELD's own international committee tried to nuke New York.

screw that noise! #TeamCapOrWhatever

I liked that Senator Finch's character tried to provide an unbiased view of Superman's presence. It was refreshing to have to have an earnest depiction of government authority, tbh.
 
Yeezus H. Christ said:
Apparently it was to paint Supes as the murderer.

Even though Superman's heat vision doesn't yield explosions, so there's no way he could have done that.
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most of the world would not know what Superman is capable of. how could they?
don't project your knowledge of comics to the people living in that movie world.

ArtHands said:
Before he was lured by Lex, he has taken a break and had cleared his head. He know Bruce is a misguided vagilante, and that batman is good at his core. Superman shouldn't even think "it'll take 5 to 15 mins max to take down a random vagilante do-gooder and then save my mum". He should be trying to convince and cooperate with Batman right from the beginning, considering Batman is just a pawn. Superman can find room(s) to tell Batman to stay down during the fight means he definitely have room to use this "trump card" you been saying. but i guess like you said, we should brush all these irrational behavior and actions to the excuse of him sense of logic taking a hit then.
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1. all Clark knows about Batman is that he brutalizes criminals or alleged criminals.
he has no other information to go on. he knows he's not a murderer but he can't just trust him right off the bat. would you trust someone who you witnessed plowing into people with his car? threatening to hurt you?

2. Clark did try to talk rationally to Batman but Batman came out with guns blazing, literally and then tried to poison/kill him. so at that point all you can do as a rational person is try and defend yourself and stop the other person. which would involve using violence. it's perfectly rational.

Yeezus H. Christ said:
What am I cherry-picking, exactly? Don't trip over yourself in an attempt to defend this movie, lmao.

Civil War has good action. BvS has incoherent CGI explosion-filled Michael Bay-level nonsense for its final fight and Batmobile chase scene. That's all my argument had been.
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that's an exaggeration. there's a lot of CGi in the last fight for sure but it can be followed. specially the Wonder Woman parts.



Zen_Arcade said:
I don't recall that at all. I don't remember them using any of the same effects from MoS in BvS.

Spider-Man is just a dude from Queens, yet he had a distinct, recognizable fighting style in Civil War.
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they both do. Superman is a brawler type, throws big haymakers. Spider-Man is naturally more athletic. you could pick them apart if they were to be side by side.

I find topics like these sad not because someone is willing to put forth an honest opinion but because so many of you have this irrational hatred towards someone who goes against the grain. instead of enjoying all the riches being offered right now, it devolves into these tired arguments where the goal isn't honest discussion but one upsmanship
to prove with "facts" that movie X is better than movie Y.

we can do better than this. we can talk all these movies and say "I liked these things about this movie but I don't think this worked" without it devolving into "I think this is the best movie and anyone who doesn't think so is an idiot"

I don't know maybe I'm getting old and soft.
 
They're both vapid, shallow and disposable experiences, but between the two Civil War is the only one that entertains.
 
Yeezus H. Christ said:
If you can't remember SHIELD being revealed as HYDRA and being destroyed by the end of it, which is bolder than anything done in BvS, I don't think the problem is with the films.
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No one but the biggest Marvel fanboys cares to remember what goes on with SHIELD and HYDRA. Bland and inconsequential plot filler that does nothing but fill wiki pages with nonsense.
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
2. Clark did try to talk rationally to Batman but Batman came out with guns blazing, literally and then tried to poison/kill him. so at that point all you can do as a rational person is try and defend yourself and stop the other person. which would involve using violence. it's perfectly rational.
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One thing I don't get. Why didn't supes stop the unamarked truck doing a midnight run with unidentified heavily armed guards?

The Icon said:
Yea. Do we really need that explained? Lex is arguably the smartest guy in the DC Universe. The plot does a fine enough job showing off this intelligence. It'd be overkill to waste time on that.
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Is he really? Why* unleash doomsday if it would end up destroying the world? Lex doesn't even know the extent of what he's doing. He acts more as a maniac than the extremelly cold and calculating person that he is during the rest of the movie.
 
BadAss2961 said:
No one but the biggest Marvel fanboys cares to remember what goes on with SHIELD and HYDRA. Bland and inconsequential plot filler that does nothing but fill wiki pages with nonsense.
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Shield had been the backbone of the entire first phase and half of the second phase. But ok.
 
Corronchilejano said:
Is he really? We unleash doomsday if it would end up destroying the world? Lex doesn't even know the extent of what he's doing. He acts more as a maniac than the extremelly cold and calculating person that he is during the rest of the movie.
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Lex is being manipulated by this point. A failing of the movie here is removing the scenes that explain this and only leaving the prison conversation. I can understand why that part of Lex's plan seems so stupid. The scenes explaining it aren't in the theatrical cut.
 
BadAss2961 said:
No one but the biggest Marvel fanboys cares to remember what goes on with SHIELD and HYDRA. Bland and inconsequential plot filler that does nothing but fill wiki pages with nonsense.
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that was actually pivotal in winter soldier

i cared.... does it make me the biggest marvel fanboy? :3

i demand at least a tiara to that honor !
 
The Icon said:
Lex is being manipulated by this point. A failing of the movie here is removing the scenes that explain this and only leaving the prison conversation. I can understand why that part of Lex's plan seems so stupid. The scenes explaining it aren't in the theatrical cut.
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Being manipulated? How? Why?
 
UFO said:
Thats kind of the point they were making in BvS. Superman is this unbreakable superhero who through sheer strength defeats his enemies. But when he loses that strength he's very vulnerable, he doesn't have the technique, or wit that Batflack possesses.

And it's not hard to juggle half a dozen characters. Did you expect that Capt would start shooting web out of his wrist? Or Black Widow would fly around shooting lasers? It very obvious and easy to understand what moves everyone does.
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No, I didn't. That is what I would deem as "Mindless action" which is what the person I was quoting claimed that the movie was filled with.

Instead it was full of characters with distinct movements who all had their own fighting styles. I never said it was the greatest action in the world, but it was clearly pretty detailed and thought out. Black Panther was wild, Black Widow was quick and agile, WS was very stiff and calculated like a military veteran who was brainwashed would probably be. It certainly wasn't "Mindless", the flow of action clearly changed depending on who was fighting who.
 
The Icon said:
Lex is being manipulated by this point. A failing of the movie here is removing the scenes that explain this and only leaving the prison conversation. I can understand why that part of Lex's plan seems so stupid. The scenes explaining it aren't in the theatrical cut.
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Parts of the existing movie has Lex portraying metahumans as people that will overrun the earth (speaking with Finch, the painting). Other times he states that they are things to be jealous of (the speech at the party). Then he speaks specifically about Superman as being a false idol for humans. He hates the whole world.

The statements contradict each other, but they also characterize Lex as a paranoid, jealous, and resentful that this world could create exceptional people. He even disregards knowledge as its own power if it's without physical strength.

Maybe he should work out with some Hollywood stars. I'll admit, Eisenberg Luthor getting jacked up in prison would be nuts.
 
Corronchilejano said:
Being manipulated? How? Why?
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By Darkseid. Remember how Lex never seemed like he wanted Superman dead but just exposed as less than a god? Than all of a sudden needed him dead? In the middle there was Darkseid. Superman was the only thing that could prove to be trouble. This is emphasized during Lex's ramblings in the prison.
 
Just watched Civil War, enjoyed BvS more.

BvS action is better shot, CW commits the action movie sin of Shaky cam abuse, for it's practical shots.

Zemo and Luthor literally have the same game plan, - rely on the billionaire Hero, to let his emotions cloud his judgement.

Amount of plot holes are about the same.

Both feature extended cameo/s of other character/s solely for action scenes.

Supes' death feels unearned, while literally Rhodey is up and walking about and crackin jokes by the end of CW

Batman is unreasonable for the majority of the movie, until "Martha". Tony is reasonable for the majority of the movie until "Reverse Martha"

Both movies subvert their Billionaire Geniuses intellect and make them look petulent
 
The Icon said:
By Darkseid. Remember how Lex never seemed like he wanted Superman dead but just exposed as less than a god? Than all of a sudden needed him dead? In the middle there was Darkseid. Superman was the only thing that could prove to be trouble. This is emphasized during Lex's ramblings in the prison.
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Awesome.

... why isn't that in the movie? We know there's something going on but seriously we don't know anything. For someone that doesn't read comics as much, it's infuriating. It's especially maddening because we get beat over the head with ridiculous ascertions that the combat zone where they are fighting Doomsday is abandoned, or that Superman is a god. Why leave something so central to the plot outside the movie?
 
Corronchilejano said:
Awesome.

... why isn't that in the movie? We know there's something going on but seriously we don't know anything. For someone that doesn't read comics as much, it's infuriating. It's especially maddening because we get beat over the head with ridiculous ascertions that the combat zone where they are fighting Doomsday is abandoned, or that Superman is a god. Why leave something so central to the plot outside the movie?
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I've said this multiple times. Batman v Superman is not casual audience friendly at all. People use the "Marvel is safe" argument negatively but I'd say simple is the better description. No matter what goes on in Marvel's movies 98% of it is clearly explained to the audience so they can follow. I find that to be a positive trait.
 
Apart from Spiderman and Black Panther's action scenes, the movie as a whole Civil War wasn't fun. The action camera was way too shaky and action shots itself felt odd not exactly striking whoa while watching it on the big screen. And from when on did Tony Stark suddenly feel all emotional and think about his parents?? Zemo was Luthor pretty much, but at least Luthor's character development made sense when you think about it. Scarlett Witch's emotions upon taking away the explosion from Cap which caused a part of a building to be ripped off, her emotions felt fake and unnatural. The scenes playing out with Sokovia, Washington, people of Wakanda all playing on the screen with Scarlet Witch feeling all emotional felt forced, just didn't come across as natural. Some woman coming to Tony Stark letting him know that Avengers have led to the death and destruction of people and property just felt weird when none of the destruction really felt like it was carrying any weight in previous film. With all the sense of humor in this film, tonally the film was mixed bag. It lacked the sincerity and seriousness of Winter Soldier, which is still the best Captain America film and one among the best standalone MCU films.

Here's where BVS excelled, the very opening scene establishes the tone and seriousness of the movie. The movie is filled with Bruce's never ending grief from the death of his parents, that gets played out in many scenes. All these scenes established the emotional character development of Bruce Wayne/Batman. This leads to a genuinely emotional moment when Clark utters "Save Martha", that breaks down Bruce. It's this scene when he realizes that Superman might be a super human being, but he's still got earthly connections in the form of his mother who raised and she happens to have the same name as his own ma. He couldn't save his ma when he was a kid against Joe Chill. He's shocked to learn about how his hatred against Superman has blinded him and it almost came so close to nearly killing him. This scene establishes the common ground between the two iconic characters. In BVS you could legit see Superman feeling sorry and helpless infront of the human race when a bomb explodes right infront of him and he was right in the center of it and could do nothing to stop it from happening. He was abused by the press and media for his actions on international waters, though all he cared about was being there to do the right thing and save mankind when they are stuck in extreme situations such as saving people from a burning building somewhere in Mexico, pulling a gigantic ship somewhere in the poles, saving a astronauts from a failed space shuttle take off and you could see Supes is almost on the verge of shedding tears. You could feel the emotion in Superman's character.

Now in Civil War just before the climatic battle between Buck/Cap V Stark, Stark ends up watching a cctv footage of Bucky punching the face of Stark's dad and killing him and choking his mom to death. To be fair, this scene did make me feel shocked and feel the pain that the character of Tony Stark would've be going through. But up until this scene all we get is shaky action, absolutely dull/or no background score, tonally off contents in the film. Heck the best memory of us the viewer of what Mr Stark has of his father is, him seeing his father's ass in a tv screen in Iron Man 2, sigh.

I enjoyed BVS more, yes. Civil War had it's moments when Spidey and Panther were around. But movie as a whole BVS felt a better film in every way. Guess I'll have to be at a minority when it comes to BVS related talk.
 
Corronchilejano said:
We're talking about the director here. I asume however that every poster gives their personal opinion unless they say otherwise.

EDIT: Director, screenwriter, etc.
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I try to be specific about that.

All there really is as confirmation is the deleted scene WB released which deals with some being talking to Lex in the ship and an interview with Snyder that said major plot threads were better fleshed out in the Ultimate Cut.
 
The Icon said:
All there really is as confirmation is the deleted scene WB released which deals with something talking to Lex in the ship and an interview with Snyder that said major plot threads were better fleshed out in the Ultimate Cut.
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Why make a movie so long that you have to leave so much stuff out? The movie is in dire need of explanations, and in case you don't want to beat your movie goers into the head with unnecesary explanations you at least need to alude it in a clever way.
 
Corronchilejano said:
Why make a movie so long that you have to leave so much stuff out? The movie is in dire need of explanations, and in case you don't want to beat your movie goers into the head with unnecesary explanations you at least need to alude it in a clever way.
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Lex's own contempt for the planet is enough to carry the story, and the theatrical cut already has too many setups for Justice League.
 
MisterHero said:
Lex's own contempt for the planet is enough to carry the story...
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What? No. Lex's sudden shift in gears is why the movie falls apart. The most annoying part of the movie is that we're not understanding what's going on, because nothing makes sense.

You know a part of the movie that doesn't make sense that works?
Flash's
appearance. Because it doesn't define the movie, it's just part of it. Lex, unfortunately, defines the movie in what seems to come out of nowhere.


MisterHero said:
...and the theatrical cut already has too many setups for Justice League.
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That was extremely hamfisted for a movie supposedly "too smart" for its audience.
 
Corronchilejano said:
Why make a movie so long that you have to leave so much stuff out? The movie is in dire need of explanations, and in case you don't want to beat your movie goers into the head with unnecesary explanations you at least need to alude it in a clever way.
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I can't confirm this or anything but there's been word that WB chickened out at the last minute and told Snyder to chop the movie down to 2 and a half hours. This I believe is where the movie got fucked if that's true. Bad decisions on what to keep and what to drop. I'd rather have had the Knightmare sequence dropped in favor of keeping Clark's investigation and Lex being manipulated.
 
Civil War was very entertaining, and I can go to a MCU movie extremely confident that they're not going to screw up the characterization.
Never again, DC. Never again.
 
The Icon said:
By Darkseid. Remember how Lex never seemed like he wanted Superman dead but just exposed as less than a god? Than all of a sudden needed him dead? In the middle there was Darkseid. Superman was the only thing that could prove to be trouble. This is emphasized during Lex's ramblings in the prison.
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Honestly that's not darksieds mo

He wants to own superman
Justice%2BLeague1.jpg
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Lex might have known this and wanted to kill him as an alternative to letting ds have him.
 
Corronchilejano said:
One thing I don't get. Why didn't supes stop the unamarked truck doing a midnight run with unidentified heavily armed guards?



Is he really? Why* unleash doomsday if it would end up destroying the world? Lex doesn't even know the extent of what he's doing. He acts more as a maniac than the extremelly cold and calculating person that he is during the rest of the movie.
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I think by that point the truck had made it's getaway and Batman was trying to catch up to it. Superman isn't omniscient, I personally don't believe he would have a reason to suspect the truck was up to funny business. I don't think he would go after a truck unless he knew what was going on for sure. that's how I saw it.
he also seemed pretty intent on delivering a message to Batman.

The Icon said:
Lex is being manipulated by this point. A failing of the movie here is removing the scenes that explain this and only leaving the prison conversation. I can understand why that part of Lex's plan seems so stupid. The scenes explaining it aren't in the theatrical cut.
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you can't make that assumption for sure. what we can gather is that Lex has been studying metahumans and is obviously looking to the stars so to speak to see if there are any others like Kryptonians so that he can create contingencies (silver bullets)
maybe he made contact, maybe he did not (you can't count deleted scenes if they weren't in the movie) but this whole plan was born of Lex's mistrust and paranoia. he didn't need to be manipulated into it.

Corronchilejano said:
What? No. Lex's sudden shift in gears is why the movie falls apart. The most annoying part of the movie is that we're not understanding what's going on, because nothing makes sense.

You know a part of the movie that doesn't make sense that works?
Flash's
appearance. Because it doesn't define the movie, it's just part of it. Lex, unfortunately, defines the movie in what seems to come out of nowhere.



That was extremely hamfisted for a movie supposedly "too smart" for its audience.
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I mean, what's there not to understand? we see the pieces bit by bit of Lex putting a plan in motion from the get-go. the letters, the kryptonite, the senate hearings, the Africa incident, the kidnapping.
even the most convoluted one (the bullets sub-plot) wasn't SO hard to get.
the mercenaries were there to kill the villagers once Superman showed up to show that wherever Superman goes he leaves collateral damage behind as a result of his actions and not taking into account things like political climate, power vacuums, etc.
 
I'm on mobile so I'm not going to cut down what I want to quote out of Evil's post but I think the deleted scene in this case counts but feel free to feel differently. Normally the reason a scene is dropped is because it over explains something that was already made clear or has no narrative purpose (fluff basically). This scene was likely cut for time since we know it doesn't fit either of those reasons.
 
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