Are you saying the Presidency doesn't matter? I can understand if the dislike just made both candidates equally bad, but if race issues are the only/main ones to judge a candidate on, why not vote for the candidate that's correct on them? Doesn't not voting for the other candidate indicate that it isn't the only issue that can matter?
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"I Hate Donald Trump, but he might get my vote" Washington Post(Opinion)
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Are you saying the Presidency doesn't matter? I can understand if the dislike just made both candidates equally bad, but if race issues are the only/main ones to judge a candidate on, why not vote for the candidate that's correct on them? Doesn't not voting for the other candidate indicate that it isn't the only issue that can matter?
But if you don't see that issue as the most important issue, does that really matter? It can be hard to see on the left because we don't have that kind of split right now, but just imagine this: Next cycle we get a far-left Bernie-like candidate, someone who wants to solve income inequality, enact a basic guaranteed income and universal healthcare and a bunch of stuff like that. He's already won the primary. But he's a racist, he goes on rants about how the Mexicans are the tools of the corporations trying to keep wages down and can't be allowed in the country. And on the other side you have a pro-business establishment Republican, the kind that argues that the GOP shouldn't be pissing off Hispanics. But he wants deep tax cuts for the rich, he wants to undo Obamacare, remove the social safety nets, ban all abortions, increase the military, and just throw in any other GOP policies that you hate that aren't directly race-related.
If the election were between those two candidates, would anyone who voted the Bernie-like be a bigot?
Yes, Jesus.
"I wouldn't vote for a racist because racism is bad."
"But wouldn't you though?"
No, dude, racism is actually bad, that's why I said that.
7DollarHagane
Banned
It's actually a strong motivator to change behaviors.
I'm not saying it's a good thing, but your aphorism is simply not true.
Simply labeling someone and telling them something they don't see as wrong is a wrong doesn't change anything.
Someone who thinks that immigrants should follow the legal path to citizenship and that legal path shouldn't be significantly changed might be more likely to vote trump than Hillary. That view is not racist unless our current immigration and citizenship programs are.
Some people who are uncomfortable with syrian or middle eastern immigration without special controls or screening because of the stories coming out of Europe might be considered racist.
If you think these views are wrong then these people need to be convinced they are wrong not simply labeled and attempted to be shamed.
Are you saying the Presidency doesn't matter? I can understand if the dislike just made both candidates equally bad, but if race issues are the only/main ones to judge a candidate on, why not vote for the candidate that's correct on them? Doesn't not voting for the other candidate indicate that it isn't the only issue that can matter?
You're the only one oushing that it's the only issue to base judge a candidate on. My statement is that voting for a racist candidate does, in fact, make you a god damned racist.
Yes, Jesus.
"I wouldn't vote for a racist because racism is bad."
"But wouldn't you though?"
No, dude, racism is actually bad, that's why I said that.
So, you basically admit to being a one-issue voter. Why can't you understand that other people can be the same way about other issues?
Hillary wants to murder babies according to the pro-life one issue voter. Pigeon, why do you want to murder babies?
You're the only one oushing that it's the only issue to base judge a candidate on. My statement is that voting for a racist candidate does, in fact, make you a god damned racist.
If it's not the only issue to base a candidate on, then there are valid reasons to vote for a racist candidate that have nothing to do with race.
So, you basically admit to being a one-issue voter. Why can't you understand that other people can be the same way about other issues?
Hillary wants to murder babies according to the pro-life one issue voter. Pigeon, why do you want to murder babies?
I do understand that. Those people are literally saying that racism is not as big a deal to them as taxes or whatever. I think that's a pretty racist position!
I want to murder babies because we have to solve our food problem somehow.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
So, you basically admit to being a one-issue voter. Why can't you understand that other people can be the same way about other issues?
Hillary wants to murder babies according to the pro-life one issue voter. Pigeon, why do you want to murder babies?
If you can't get past the racism test, nothing else should be considered. Why is that hard to understand?
Palette Swap
Member
Simply labeling someone and telling them something they don't see as wrong is a wrong doesn't change anything.
Someone who thinks that immigrants should follow the legal path to citizenship and that legal path shouldn't be significantly changed might be more likely to vote trump than Hillary. That view is not racist unless our current immigration and citizenship programs are.
Some people who are uncomfortable with syrian or middle eastern immigration without special controls or screening because of the stories coming out of Europe might be considered racist.
If you think these views are wrong then these people need to be convinced they are wrong not simply labeled and attempted to be shamed.
This has like 0% relevance to my post.
If you can't get past the racism test, nothing else should be considered. Why is that hard to understand?
You never seen the TED talks that begin with "I hate Blacks, Jews, Mexicans, and Women. Now here is my plan to reverse climate change"
If you can't get past the racism test, nothing else should be considered. Why is that hard to understand?
I can understand someone being a one-issue voter, even if I don't agree with it. But even if you see the election through that lens, it's narrow-minded to act as if everyone else uses that same lens. Saying someone's a bigot because they voted for one is ignorant because you're just looking at things through that one lens.
If it's not the only issue to base a candidate on, then there are valid reasons to vote for a racist candidate that have nothing to do with race.
What you don't seem to be comprehending here is that being perfectly fine with, or even willing to ignore, racism in pursuit of other goals, being fine with saying "yeah, the blacks and hispanics and muslims will suffer, but hey, I'll get x" instead of "I can't wait until all the minorities are put in their place" still makes you a racist.
Voting for racism in pursuit of some other goal is still voting for racism.
I can understand someone being a one-issue voter, even if I don't agree with it. But even if you see the election through that lens, it's narrow-minded to act as if everyone else uses that same lens. Saying someone's a bigot because they voted for one is ignorant because you're just looking at things through that one lens.
Racism is hardly "One Issue"
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
I can understand someone being a one-issue voter, even if I don't agree with it. But even if you see the election through that lens, it's narrow-minded to act as if everyone else uses that same lens. Saying someone's a bigot because they voted for one is ignorant because you're just looking at things through that one lens.
Its not ignorant at all. If you vote for a racist/bigot, that means you are one or you don't care that the person is racist because it won't personally effect you. Either way, you should be judged harshly.
Yes, that groups of minorities get shit on in America through education, policing, and laws is one issue. If you're voting for trump, who's only real solid issue is being a bigot, you're also a bigot. Sorry, it's 2016, deal with it.I can understand someone being a one-issue voter, even if I don't agree with it. But even if you see the election through that lens, it's narrow-minded to act as if everyone else uses that same lens. Saying someone's a bigot because they voted for one is ignorant because you're just looking at things through that one lens.
Mr. Giggles
Member
I can understand someone being a one-issue voter, even if I don't agree with it. But even if you see the election through that lens, it's narrow-minded to act as if everyone else uses that same lens. Saying someone's a bigot because they voted for one is ignorant because you're just looking at things through that one lens.
Being a bigot isn't some small thing that you can just push aside and say "Oh well, he's racists but I like his financial plan"
If that frame of thinking was ok, we would have KKK members and openly hateful groups in government and corporate offices.
It may be that people are voting for a bigot while considering his whole platform because - as you said, they're not one issue voters but I'm willing to bet people in this situation only do so because the bigotry isn't directed at them
I can understand someone being a one-issue voter, even if I don't agree with it. But even if you see the election through that lens, it's narrow-minded to act as if everyone else uses that same lens. Saying someone's a bigot because they voted for one is ignorant because you're just looking at things through that one lens.
If your lens doesn't take racism into account then it's a pretty racist lens.
Simply labeling someone and telling them something they don't see as wrong is a wrong doesn't change anything.
Someone who thinks that immigrants should follow the legal path to citizenship and that legal path shouldn't be significantly changed might be more likely to vote trump than Hillary. That view is not racist unless our current immigration and citizenship programs are.
Some people who are uncomfortable with syrian or middle eastern immigration without special controls or screening because of the stories coming out of Europe might be considered racist.
If you think these views are wrong then these people need to be convinced they are wrong not simply labeled and attempted to be shamed.
Both of those issues have highly racist undertones. The facts show that neither of those issues are major American problems that require drastic government action. Net illegal immigration from Mexico is down. Our vetting process for Syrian refugees is insane, and both recent "terrorist attacks" we're from Muslims born here. Further, there's been far more mass shootings from young white males than anyone else.
The common thread is that both groups are scary brown people that the majority wants to control because "they're taking their country away".
AntraxSuicide
Banned
Are you saying the Presidency doesn't matter? I can understand if the dislike just made both candidates equally bad, but if race issues are the only/main ones to judge a candidate on, why not vote for the candidate that's correct on them? Doesn't not voting for the other candidate indicate that it isn't the only issue that can matter?
No, I'm not saying that at all. But you cut out the part of my reply that pointed out how you misconstrued that person's comment, and I don't appreciate that at all. Quote/reply in full.
And those aren't the only issues to vote on, but that doesn't really matter! I'm an ardent Clinton fan, and I don't particularly like intervention in most situations. When I tell someone that I'm voting Clinton, they might accuse me of being an interventionist (since she favors that more than I do). They'd be right! Because I compromised on my stance in that issue, I can fairly be accused of supporting an interventionist, and the distinction of "I'm not X, I just supported someone who was X" is meaningless.
In this case, X is racism. But it can be anything! In your hypothetical, I wouldn't vote for the racist because I won't compromise on that. I would rather compromise on economic policy, foreign policy, nearly anything but that. And in your example, I would be accused (should I vote for the right wing, non-racist) of being a corporatist, a neo-con, etc... And that would be a fair accusation, since I viewed those positions as more favorable than the opponent.
I'm voting for Trump over Hilldawg, but I'm not a bigot. I just couldn't stomach her in office. There are so many things against ha, that push me over the edge.
Voting for racism in pursuit of some other goal is still voting for racism.
I'm voting for Trump over Hilldawg, but I'm not a bigot. I just couldn't stomach her in office. There are so many things against ha, that push me over the edge.
I WISH I could understand this opinion though. What could she possibly do in office that you wouldn't be able to stomach.
I'm voting for Trump over Hilldawg, but I'm not a bigot. I just couldn't stomach her in office. There are so many things against ha, that push me over the edge.
You can't stomach her in office, sure, that's understable I guess.
But you can stomach fucking Trump? Now that's hilarious and hard to understand, considering all the crap that came out of his mouth & tweets.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
If someone doesn't care about politics and votes for Hillary because they just want to see a woman in office, is that considered a bad thing?
Likewise,
If someone doesn't care about politics and votes for Trump because they just want to see a TV personality in office, is that considered a bad thing?
Likewise,
If someone doesn't care about politics and votes for Trump because they just want to see a TV personality in office, is that considered a bad thing?
If someone doesn't care about politics and votes for Hillary because they just want to see a woman in office, is that considered a bad thing?
Likewise,
If someone doesn't care about politics and votes for Trump because they just want to see a TV personality in office, is that considered a bad thing?
They're both uninformed votes, is all.
But people have the right to vote for whoever they would like to, regardless of their reasoning. I actively despise Trump, but at the same time I have friends and family who will likely vote for him and that is their right as a US citizen.
Its not ignorant at all. If you vote for a racist/bigot, that means you are one or you don't care that the person is racist because it won't personally effect you. Either way, you should be judged harshly.
It's not about not caring. There are parts of the GOP that disagree with Trump's bigotry, but disagree with Hillary on just about every other issue. I'm sympathetic there because they're basically fucked this cycle, and I don't think there's a right answer for them. But someone making a hard choice in a situation like that doesn't mean they actually agreed with the thing that they hated that made it a hard choice in the first place. It's nonsense.
Being a bigot isn't some small thing that you can just push aside and say "Oh well, he's racists but I like his financial plan"
If that frame of thinking was ok, we would have KKK members and openly hateful groups in government and corporate offices.
It may be that people are voting for a bigot while considering his whole platform because - as you said, they're not one issue voters but I'm willing to bet people in this situation only do so because the bigotry isn't directed at them
I don't mean it to be taken as a small thing, just that it may not be the biggest thing. In life, you often can't get everything. Sometimes it's an easy decision, others can be hard. This applies to political candidates, if you're always finding yourself agreeing with one side on everything, you're probably not thinking for yourself. And sometimes that means prioritizing some things over others because there's no candidate that does both. But not prioritizing something is not the same thing as opposing it.
If your lens doesn't take racism into account then it's a pretty racist lens.
Keep murdering those babies.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
It's like Brexit isn't teaching y'all anything yet.
This is an inherent contradiction. People voting for her because she's a woman, are doing it, because it means women might not be an after thought in politics, much like how it was for Obama. And yes to your second question, they're voting for a bigot because they like his tv show. Fuck them.If someone doesn't care about politics and votes for Hillary because they just want to see a woman in office, is that considered a bad thing?
Now we know why you like trump. So what if you're a bigot, own it.Keep murdering those babies.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
If someone doesn't care about politics and votes for Hillary because they just want to see a woman in office, is that considered a bad thing?
Likewise,
If someone doesn't care about politics and votes for Trump because they just want to see a TV personality in office, is that considered a bad thing?
They're both not ideal reasons to vote, but at least with the former there's the excuse of women having a limited voice in politics, voting for someone because they're a wacky character on TV is rather disturbing because the political stage isn't supposed to be a reality TV show. If you want to vote that way then fine, but don't be surprised when people call out your reasoning.
I'm voting for Trump over Hilldawg, but I'm not a bigot. I just couldn't stomach her in office. There are so many things against ha, that push me over the edge.
But you're okay with all the things Trump has done and said? That makes you a bigot.
Closest bigots
Some certainly are, but in general it goes deeper than that. It's amazing the kinds of opposing viewpoints people can hold and rationalize it to themselves - or in many cases not even be aware of it. Take one of the many incoherent Tea Party messages: "I hate socialism, keep you hands off my Medicare!". Many voters can be against racism and bigotry, but then vote for a transparently racist bigot because "Hilary". When confronted about the hypocrisy, or plain incoherence, of their ideas they often shut down or become angry.
Watch the recent Daily Show segment where Jessica Williams confronts some of these "Bernie voters for Trump" types.
No, I'm not saying that at all. But you cut out the part of my reply that pointed out how you misconstrued that person's comment, and I don't appreciate that at all. Quote/reply in full.
And those aren't the only issues to vote on, but that doesn't really matter! I'm an ardent Clinton fan, and I don't particularly like intervention in most situations. When I tell someone that I'm voting Clinton, they might accuse me of being an interventionist (since she favors that more than I do). They'd be right! Because I compromised on my stance in that issue, I can fairly be accused of supporting an interventionist, and the distinction of "I'm not X, I just supported someone who was X" is meaningless.
In this case, X is racism. But it can be anything! In your hypothetical, I wouldn't vote for the racist because I won't compromise on that. I would rather compromise on economic policy, foreign policy, nearly anything but that. And in your example, I would be accused (should I vote for the right wing, non-racist) of being a corporatist, a neo-con, etc... And that would be a fair accusation, since I viewed those positions as more favorable than the opponent.
I don't think your a interventionist/corporatist/neo-con in that situation. Throwing terms like that around so loosely robs them of their meaning. Interventionist should be reserved for those that actually you know..believe in it. Trying to label everyone who doesn't see it as the most important issue as one of those things is Tea Party-like purity nonsense. That's not how competent, governing majorities are formed. That's not the kind of thinking that actually solves problems.
I'm voting for Trump over Hilldawg, but I'm not a bigot. I just couldn't stomach her in office. There are so many things against ha, that push me over the edge.
You're enabling a bigot though. You can rationalize it all you want, but that's the reality of it.
Even if I liked Trump for something like his economic policy, it'd be incredibly difficult for me to reconcile that with the straight up disgusting other stuff he has done and said.
Now we know why you like trump. So what if you're a bigot, own it.
I don't plan on voting Trump, I'm voting Hillary. Even the example you quoted is just an example, I'm only pro-life if you're talking life vs hometown. I just don't like to see the same kind of narrow minded nonsense on the left that I see on the right.
Psychoward
Banned
Too bad trump has even more things against him, like 100 more thingsI'm voting for Trump over Hilldawg, but I'm not a bigot. I just couldn't stomach her in office. There are so many things against ha, that push me over the edge.
Christ
"I'm not a bigot but I'm voting for one to be the most powerful person in the world"
No. You're a bigot. Hate to break it to you.
I can understand someone being a one-issue voter, even if I don't agree with it. But even if you see the election through that lens, it's narrow-minded to act as if everyone else uses that same lens. Saying someone's a bigot because they voted for one is ignorant because you're just looking at things through that one lens.
Racism is an economic issue, a civil issue, explicitly violates the letter, if not the spirit of the constitution, and destroys lives that should be governed by merit and equal standing under the law.
If you can't see that, well, you need new glasses.
Big Baybee
Member
So why can you stomach Trump?I'm voting for Trump over Hilldawg, but I'm not a bigot. I just couldn't stomach her in office. There are so many things against ha, that push me over the edge.
I know this wasn't directed at me butIf you want to vote that way then fine, but don't be surprised when people call out your reasoning.
I don't think anyone outside the internet ever calls anyone out though. Do you ever see that in public unless you're actually at a Rally?
We go in the both, we vote, we walk out and get on with our lives. im not going to walk into a 7-11 ten minutes later and someone is going to point at me and be like "You Green Party Scum Bag bigot"
Code:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Q8OhQOJ.jpg[/IMG]No, it will be the usual exchange of "hey good morning, how is the family? Great"
Psychoward
Banned
"Because at least he's honest and direct!"So why can you stomach Trump?
Or some other nonsense ass backwards answer
He's a manSo why can you stomach Trump?
Also he "tells it like it is
7DollarHagane
Banned
Both of those issues have highly racist undertones. The facts show that neither of those issues are major American problems that require drastic government action. Net illegal immigration from Mexico is down. Our vetting process for Syrian refugees is insane, and both recent "terrorist attacks" we're from Muslims born here. Further, there's been far more mass shootings from young white males than anyone else.
The common thread is that both groups are scary brown people that the majority wants to control because "they're taking their country away".
Note that the hypothetical voter I posed does not want to build a wall or block Muslims, they simply think the current system should be enforced and not loosened. Is that racist? Which candidate is more likely to get closer to that goal?
Keep murdering those babies.
I can't this week, I'm out of breading.
I don't think this argument is as smart as you seem to think it is. Yes, there are plenty of single-issue abortion voters. So what? If they say "you think being against racism is more important than being against abortion" they're totally correct. I do think that! Because I don't think that abortion should be illegal.
Basically this just supports my thesis. Yes, if you support Trump, you think that racism is not very important.
Psychoward
Banned
Well by voting for a candidate that wants to build a wall and block Muslims they're indirectly supporting racist actionsNote that the hypothetical voter I posed does not want to build a wall or block Muslims, they simply think the current system should be enforced and not loosened. Is that racist? Which candidate is more likely to get closer to that goal?
Note that the hypothetical voter I posed does not want to build a wall or block Muslims, they simply think the current system should be enforced and not loosened. Is that racist? Which candidate is more likely to get closer to that goal?
Except that hypothetical voter would have to support a wall and a Muslim ban because they're voting for trump. Again, even a small amount of research would show that neither Mexican or Islamic immigration are major issues, and that Democrats have been pretty tough on illegal immigration. If you believe that Dems have been too soft on illegals, and that Obama secretly supports ISIS and there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims coming to kill you, then you're going to support extreme (racist) measures.
I'm voting for Trump over Hilldawg, but I'm not a bigot. I just couldn't stomach her in office. There are so many things against ha, that push me over the edge.
How bad could she be that you have to give the middle finger to minorities?
I can't this week, I'm out of breading.
I don't think this argument is as smart as you seem to think it is. Yes, there are plenty of single-issue abortion voters. So what? If they say "you think being against racism is more important than being against abortion" they're totally correct. I do think that! Because I don't think that abortion should be illegal.
Basically this just supports my thesis. Yes, if you support Trump, you think that racism is not very important.
Not the most important, and that doesn't make one a racist. They should actually have some racists beliefs or prejudices or something like that to be a racist.
Not the most important, and that doesn't make one a racist. They should actually have some racists beliefs or prejudices or something like that to be a racist.
How is "I am not racist or bigot, I just support them and wish they succeed" any better?
7DollarHagane
Banned
I can't this week, I'm out of breading.
I don't think this argument is as smart as you seem to think it is. Yes, there are plenty of single-issue abortion voters. So what? If they say "you think being against racism is more important than being against abortion" they're totally correct. I do think that! Because I don't think that abortion should be illegal.
Basically this just supports my thesis. Yes, if you support Trump, you think that racism is not very important.
It's also possible to acknowledge that his ridiculous ideas and promises aren't happening in any reality where the checks and balances of the us government are still in place.
A candidate can say whatever they want to pamder to people who will believe it but that doesn't make it any more doable or legal in office.
Its not unreasonable to think people might vote for the candidate that says the highly exaggerated and hyperbolic version of issue that they support in a more moderate way vs the other who opposes that issue or says its not an issue at all.
It would be like if you agreed for minimum income, but the only candidate that supported it said minimum income should be 50k a year and anyone making more than that gets taxed 90%.
If the other candidate said "I will never allow minimum income" which candidate are you likely to support or align with?
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