DF on Zelda Switch: Docked has major frame drops, portable doesn't (no score talk)

It is for people who want to play it on a big TV, not a tiny screen.



Well said.

And this game absolutely deserves to be played on a big screen. Technical features aside Aonuma and his team crafted a gorgeous open-world map that fits well with their cel-shaded art-style.

Also, 80% of this game is exploration and finding really, really tiny things while gliding. You're already fighting with lod and pop-ins, don't punish yourself further by playing this game on a 6-inch screen :P
 
It's weird that they didn't put more money on trying to fix this, knowing that this is their killer up and one of their biggest (or the biggest) of the last 2 years. Game was gold long ago and day one patch was just a few minor fixes and DLC menu.

It is very obvious they spent most of their time making the game as compelling as possible, and the technical aspect was an after thought.

Luckily though, performances can be patched in a while, especially with promised DLC content coming.
 
It's weird that they didn't put more money on trying to fix this, knowing that this is their killer up and one of their biggest (or the biggest) of the last 2 years. Game was gold long ago and day one patch was just a few minor fixes and DLC menu.

Does it matter? 9.8 gonna get it selling regardless of how much complaining we do on forum.
 
Yeah, I've been complaining about the docked performance constantly in the OT. The game looks and runs like a dream in handheld mode, but docked on a decent sized TV? Not so much. Really disappointing if it doesn't get patched.
 
It is very obvious they spent most of their time making the game as compelling as possible, and the technical aspect was an after thought.

Luckily though, performances can be patched in a while, especially with promised DLC content coming.

This should have been patched for day one, not for day 30. Game was ready way before the release and they knew there were performance issues. Why would they do it after the game is out and not before ? I don't believe 1 to 3 months of dev focused on the performance would cost too much, so there must be other reasons and I'd like them to share with us on this topic.

Does it matter? 9.8 gonna get it selling regardless of how much complaining we do on forum.

It's a risk to take if your main game of the first six months and the only big game of the first two months is going to be a mess while you are playing on TV.
 
Yeah, I've been complaining about the docked performance constantly in the OT. The game looks and runs like a dream in handheld mode, but docked on a decent sized TV? Not so much. Really disappointing if it doesn't get patched.

Is the framerate fine in villages in handheld mode?
 
The wild card on this is the engine/port.

Is it having issues because it's just purely bandwidth starved or is it having issues cause of the engine and the 32 megs of edram the Wii U has that Nintendo designed around.
 
Yeah, I've been complaining about the docked performance constantly in the OT. The game looks and runs like a dream in handheld mode, but docked on a decent sized TV? Not so much. Really disappointing if it doesn't get patched.

Definitely. I love this game, it's beautiful. I can deal with the dips and it doesn't effect my experience too much, but they are indeed very noticeable. I
 
And it runs fine on the handled mode, that's not disappointing.

It not running in docked mode as well as in handheld mode is more that enough to call it disappointing.

It goes against the very concept of the switch. Nintendo sells it as an hybrid that allows you to seamlessly transion from the tv to the switch sreen, and back to the tv, and you're paying for that (300$/330€, definitely not the price of a "handheld").

Nintendo doesn't need to directly say "i promise, games are going to run the same one way or the other". When you see an ad where someone is playing on the tv, then suddenly picks up the switch and continues playing on the go, people are naturally going to assume that you're going to be playing the same game, running as it was running before changing modes (gameplay at least, and that includes the framerate). Isn't that part of what that scene is implying?

- "You see, if you have to go, you can continue playing same as you were doing just now on the tv, but on the switch!" tv -> switch
(this being a framerate upgrade right now)
or the other way around
- "you're already home? enjoy the same game you were playing on the switch just now, but on the tv!" switch -> tv
(this being a framerate downgrade righ now)

I would certainly expect to have the same experience (in both modes). You can't tell me that the system is super versatile and then add "but for best results, use it this way".

Finally, nintendo not prioritizing framerate over resolution (if that ends up being the case) makes absolute no sense to me. If they really wanted to up the resolution in docked mode, they would need to make sure that the hardware allowed them to make the change while maintaining the gameplay intact. It's that, or simply passing the image from the handheld to the tv, with the original resolution intanct. It's one or the other, but you don't go in between (especially if you're nintendo and you always put a lot of care on stable frame rates).

We'll see how this plays out.
 
I could care less if it dips once in a while. Just played around on the Great Plateau for 5 hours where it apparently is the worst, noticed it a few times, it's over after a few seconds and then it's fine.
 
Gamers (including multitudes on GAF) have shown time and time again that they're willing to ignore framedrops in a game, going back to the Mega Man games on NES. Personally I hate slowdown, but we're a vocal minority at best. Poor framerate didn't hurt sales or critical/audience opinion of GTA V, MGS4, Witcher 3, Bloodborne, Dark Souls...the list goes on and on. So why accuse the Metacritic score of being illegitimate? Most people don't care about smooth performance, and the review scores reflect that.
 
Seems pretty disappointing, especially the Wii U version with what people are saying about that. Hope they do a full analysis on some of the other problem areas to see if it's consistent.

I could care less if it dips once in a while. Just played around on the Great Plateau for 5 hours where it apparently is the worst, noticed it a few times, it's over after a few seconds and then it's fine.

People are saying it gets worse in later areas, so..
 
It is very obvious they spent most of their time making the game as compelling as possible, and the technical aspect was an after thought.

Luckily though, performances can be patched in a while, especially with promised DLC content coming.

That's not how it works
 
Gamers (including multitudes on GAF) have shown time and time again that they're willing to ignore framedrops in a game, going back to the Mega Man games on NES. Personally I hate slowdown, but we're a vocal minority at best. Poor framerate didn't hurt sales or critical/audience opinion of GTA V, MGS4, Witcher 3, Bloodborne, Dark Souls...the list goes on and on. So why accuse the Metacritic score of being illegitimate? Most people don't care about smooth performance, and the review scores reflect that.

people should care. This is a Nintendo's flagship game in a 2017 console that runs dips down to 20fps. Reviewers are blinded by the LOZ brand as they have been with some of the past games scoring like a motherfucker when they're really B games (i'm looking at you TP). If reviewers think this isn't an issue, no one moving forward should ever be marked down for performance. 20fps....

If BOTW isn't published by Nintendo (everything else being the same) it'd get a critically and rightfully appraised in reviews.

also, this obviously is the technical discussion thread as its a DF post but are the dips really excusable? People hammer bloodbourne for its framepacing issue all the time and there's no reason why LOZ should get a free pass. And it runs even worse on the wii U too so.
 
On the Wii u version I got to the horse stables last night and that is slow motion chop! Out in the field it's fine but anytime your outside around the horse stable prepare for bullet time.
 
And this game absolutely deserves to be played on a big screen. Technical features aside Aonuma and his team crafted a gorgeous open-world map that fits well with their cel-shaded art-style.

Also, 80% of this game is exploration and finding really, really tiny things while gliding. You're already fighting with lod and pop-ins, don't punish yourself further by playing this game on a 6-inch screen :P

For the Wii u version it look fine on my 65 inch Sony 850c. This tv has great up scaling. But on the gamepad screen. Even though it low resolution looks cleaner. With the combination of what it up being supersampling on a small screen. The game looks like a high quality cartoon. On the big screen it has it wow it looks amazing moments as well as it this just looks OK moments but it never looks bad. And I have been playing both Horizon and Zelda back to back.
 
It's okay most of the time, but that forest on the Plateau...oh my god. That can't be even 20fps, game literally slows to a crawl sometimes in that damn forest.
 
Gamers (including multitudes on GAF) have shown time and time again that they're willing to ignore framedrops in a game, going back to the Mega Man games on NES. Personally I hate slowdown, but we're a vocal minority at best. Poor framerate didn't hurt sales or critical/audience opinion of GTA V, MGS4, Witcher 3, Bloodborne, Dark Souls...the list goes on and on. So why accuse the Metacritic score of being illegitimate? Most people don't care about smooth performance, and the review scores reflect that.

You're not wrong and it's a bummer. I really wish performance was a bigger deal. Solid 30fps should be the bare minimum expectation, not a feat to be applauded. Reading this stuff has a bigger impact on my desire to play the game than practically anything else.
 
Changing the Switch to 720p has made it much better for me. I'd rather have it a little lower res than the constant chugging.
 
sucks they couldn't get the game running well in docked mode. Kind of negates the point of wanting a home console with a switch and use it solely for hand held.
 
Actually, not entirely true. Emulators are indeed able to stabilize the framerate, provided the framerate isn't locked.

I guess you're right. The Mario Sunshine 60 FPS hack in Dolphin doesn't require the Overclock after all, forgot about that :P
 
On the Wii u version I got to the horse stables last night and that is slow motion chop! Out in the field it's fine but anytime your outside around the horse stable prepare for bullet time.

Yeah I noticed that too, and then soon after, the nearby village, bleh. I can probably live with much of these dips, but not sure if I would be excited checking out a village during heavy rain or something lol.
 
Just got to the first village in the game on WiiU and God the framerate tanks HARD !! I'm talking 15-20FPS of persistent performance while you are in village.

And the funny thing is there isn't even much in the village, 3-4 NPCs, 4-5 buildings and that's about it. No wonder the world and environment in this game is so....empty ! The game simply can't manage to do anything more it unless it's a small enclosed place like a shrine.
 
It runs at 1080/60.

I'm 100% certain this is just a bad case scenario where proper time wasn't spent on the Switch version.

Kind of doubt it. Think they knew this was coming to the Switch back in 2015. Hopefully the issues are due to porting it from the Wii U and the difference in architecture. I'm pretty sure Zelda pushes the Switch harder than MK8 so I don't think that is an apples to apples comparison.
 
I just don't understand how they could let this slide. Especially the starting area, it makes the worst first impression. It does get better after the Plateau, which is even weirder in a sense.

I played all day today in handheld mode and I got a few drops in a dense forest, but that's it. 99% of the time, it's 30fps and I'm having a great time. It looks crisp too, despite a severe lack of AA (but you ignore it after a while). Handeld mode is by far the better experience.
 
AA ain't free

Even some basic post-processing technique like FXAA/SMAA would do wonders. These techniques have been around since the 360/PS3 days so I can't image the cost would be incredibly high on more modern hardware. Having absolutely no AA does a total disservice to the art in Nintendo's games.
 
Honestly, they should patch zelda to include a 720p mode option for docked mode.

Having a game perform worse on the dock is a serious buzzkill.
 
Nintendo does not deserve the developers they have working for them, these are truly remarkable people at their craft and Nintendo every time gives them seriously outdated hardware, truly a shame, imagine the possibilities with a more up to date hardware, one can only dream
 
Just started watching this myself. So much shimmering, Christ. Nintendo needs to discover anti-aliasing, stat.
If the game has framerate drops to 20 fps is normal to skip AA, because with AA activated it would drop to an even lower framerate.

All AA types affect the performance.
 
Nintendo does not deserve the developers they have working for them, these are truly remarkable people at their craft and Nintendo every time gives them seriously outdated hardware, truly a shame, imagine the possibilities with a more up to date hardware, one can only dream

I'm curious to know how many top graphics coders have left Nintendo since the Wii era. Many top people at Retro left to form Armature in 08, and that was one of the top 1st party teams for tech. I don't think it's a coincidence Retro has made 2.5d games ever since.
 
This is super disappointing to me, especially after coming off Nioh's 60fps. I almost don't want to play it until it's patched now.... ugh.
 
Just got to the first village in the game on WiiU and God the framerate tanks HARD !! I'm talking 15-20FPS of persistent performance while you are in village.

And the funny thing is there isn't even much in the village, 3-4 NPCs, 4-5 buildings and that's about it. No wonder the world and environment in this game is so....empty ! The game simply can't manage to do anything more it unless it's a small enclosed place like a shrine.
Damn
 
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