Support NeoGAF

[policestationx]

Nope, majority are 3rd party devs. Do some research instead of spewing crap. So, cut the crap



Also, DICE developer is missing

Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition

Its what a useless driveby from the very first page.

www.resetera.com

You reminded me of nib95 or nib85 on ERA with your spin about PS5 secret sauce drive "SSD" bs.

 

[Bernkastel]

Nope, majority are 3rd party devs. Do some research instead of spewing crap. So, cut the crap



Also, DICE developer is missing

Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition

Its what a useless driveby from the very first page.

www.resetera.com

Regarding those that are not Sony in that list
Matt Philips

Mike Evans


Dale North


This dude composed for Dragon Fantasy Book II(PlayStation Vita, PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4 and later WiiU), Sparklite(multi-platform) and Wizard of Legend(multi-platform).

Olivier JT


Randy Pitchford


So, this SSD jargon is mostly Sony devs and their circlejerk. Instead of checking what they said you jut quoted a Ree post and used it for your SSD PR.
I on the other hand quoted an actual dev who worked on big companies like Valve and Space X. The guys actually praising PS5 are indie devs and Randy(who is making a PS5 exclusive). We literally had CDPR praising Series X smart delivery. The AMD dude is just saying both are great.

 

[Bernkastel]

From the developer Void2D and Void3D game engine for XSX, Windows 10 and Nintendo Switch.

 

[psorcerer]

If we are into devs theres also this from Void2D and Void3D game engine dev for XSX, Windows 10 and Nintendo Switch.

Do you have a link to that engine?
Because my Google doesn't know anything about it.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Regarding those that are not Sony in that list
Matt Philips


Mike Evans


Dale North


This dude composed for Dragon Fantasy Book II(PlayStation Vita, PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4 and later WiiU), Sparklite(multi-platform) and Wizard of Legend(multi-platform).

Olivier JT


Randy Pitchford


So, this SSD jargon is mostly Sony devs and their circlejerk. Instead of checking what they said you jut quoted a Ree post and used it for your SSD PR.
I on the other hand quoted an actual dev who worked on big companies like Valve and Space X. The guys actually praising PS5 are indie devs and Randy(who is making a PS5 exclusive). We literally had CDPR praising Series X smart delivery. The AMD dude is just saying both are great.

random thought but Mike Evans must be the most common name on Earth. I know like 20 people named Mike Evans.

 

[Shangounchained]

we do know. Why because they used 3rd party games and used old Xbox games. It is even stated Gears 5 wasn't optimized. So like I said we are seeing the benefits without optimization.

Optimised or not the ssd on the ps5 is miles faster than series x plus spiderman is also a last gen title.

 

[Bernkastel]

More from Louise Kirby

 

[Bernkastel]

Do you have a link to that engine?
Because my Google doesn't know anything about it.

Kirby0Louise - Overview

Developer of Void2D and Void3D game engines for Xbox Scarlett, Windows 10 and Nintendo Switch. A zero hero! - Kirby0Louise

github.com

GitHub - Kirby0Louise/Void2D: Void2D Game Engine - Powerful open source, retro-console based 2D game engine

Void2D Game Engine - Powerful open source, retro-console based 2D game engine - Kirby0Louise/Void2D

github.com

GitHub - Kirby0Louise/Void3D: Void3D Game Engine - To be open sourced once out of alpha

Void3D Game Engine - To be open sourced once out of alpha - Kirby0Louise/Void3D

github.com

 

[psorcerer]

Kirby0Louise - Overview

Developer of Void2D and Void3D game engines for Xbox Scarlett, Windows 10 and Nintendo Switch. A zero hero! - Kirby0Louise

github.com

GitHub - Kirby0Louise/Void2D: Void2D Game Engine - Powerful open source, retro-console based 2D game engine

Void2D Game Engine - Powerful open source, retro-console based 2D game engine - Kirby0Louise/Void2D

github.com

GitHub - Kirby0Louise/Void3D: Void3D Game Engine - To be open sourced once out of alpha

Void3D Game Engine - To be open sourced once out of alpha - Kirby0Louise/Void3D

github.com

Oh, God. Self-advertisement. Nothing there.
This guy is just milking clicks.
Ignore.

 

[Bernkastel]

Oh, God. Self-advertisement. Nothing there.
This guy is just milking clicks.
Ignore.

And so are all those indie devs talking about PS5.

 

[psorcerer]

And so are all those indie devs talking about PS5.

But they are not self-advertising on empty github pages.
I.e. seems pretty disingenuous to me, and I cannot stop to think that other things are probably too...

 

[Wandering Leopard]

If we are into devs theres also this from Void2D and Void3D game engine dev for XSX, Windows 10 and Nintendo Switch.

I question just how informed this developer? Cerny talked about the clock speed, the clock speed drops a couple of percent. that leads to a 10% reduction in power.

Exactly 38:00 and time stamped:

 

[Bernkastel]

But they are not self-advertising on empty github pages.
I.e. seems pretty disingenuous to me, and I cannot stop to think that other things are probably too...

He is not advertising anything on github.

 

[Bernkastel]

I question just how informed this developer is? Cerny talked about the clock speed, the clock speed drops a couple of percent. that leads to a 10% reduction in power.

Exactly 38:00 and time stamped:

More informed than NeoGaf/ResetEra posters and journos who claim they know what they are talking about.

 

[Tripolygon]

After reading up on this, it is sounding more like Microsoft renaming already existing shit and making it sound more impressive than it is. Sampler Feedback texture is literally just Partial Resident Texture and BCPack is literally just BC format Packing, Its a texture compression format already used by GPUs.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

More informed than NeoGaf/ResetEra posters and journos who claim they know what they are talking about.

I gave you the time stamp directly from Cerny's presentation which goes exactly against this developers main concern.

Did you watch it and understand it?

 

[Wandering Leopard]

After reading up on this, it is sounding more like Microsoft renaming already existing shit and making it sound more impressive than it is. Sampler Feedback texture is literally just Partial Resident Texture and BCPack is literally just BC format Packing, Its a texture compression format already used by GPUs.

I would call it good marketing, and marketing is effective. Although the games are always the deciding factor.

It's clear both consoles have more or less the same types of features/customisations - with different names - to help remove bottlenecks.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Regarding those that are not Sony in that list
Matt Philips


Mike Evans


Dale North


This dude composed for Dragon Fantasy Book II(PlayStation Vita, PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4 and later WiiU), Sparklite(multi-platform) and Wizard of Legend(multi-platform).

Olivier JT


Randy Pitchford


So, this SSD jargon is mostly Sony devs and their circlejerk. Instead of checking what they said you jut quoted a Ree post and used it for your SSD PR.
I on the other hand quoted an actual dev who worked on big companies like Valve and Space X. The guys actually praising PS5 are indie devs and Randy(who is making a PS5 exclusive). We literally had CDPR praising Series X smart delivery. The AMD dude is just saying both are great.

So what if they are worked on PS platform before. LOL They are 3rd party devs, like Andrea Pessino from RAD who also a developed a game for Xbone. Cut.....the....crap, Bone fan! Fuck, dude.

I'm starting to thinking that Xbone fans are out of touch now. WTF is happening. Looks like 12 TF isn't enough for Xbone fans.

 

[lynux3]

More informed than NeoGaf/ResetEra posters and journos who claim they know what they are talking about.

But clearly more informed than Mark Cerny!

 

[Bernkastel]

But clearly more informed than Mark Cerny!

I mean if we are treating anything from Xbox team as PR, then we may as well call anything from Cerny PR.

 

[Snake29]

And so are all those indie devs talking about PS5.

Lol, this Kirby sounds more then a fanboy then a normal dev that praises everything.

You really full of shit....

 

[policestationx]

The last thing I want to hear about PS5 performance is from Sony.

SSD bs talk and TF downplaying by Cerny was already a huge alarm.

 

[Bernkastel]

Lol, this Kirby sounds more then a fanboy then a normal dev that praises everything.

You really full of shit....

He does not work for Microsoft, neither does he develop exclusively for Xbox/Windows. He has Switch dev kit, which he paid for himself. Fanboy jargons are common among devs, like Quantic Dream trashing Xbox(now they are going multi platform). But he does make some valid points.

 

[policestationx]

Lol, this Kirby sounds more then a fanboy then a normal dev that praises everything.

You really full of shit....

Better than Sony 1st party devs singing praise to PS5.

 

[Snake29]

He does not work for Microsoft, neither does he develop exclusively for Xbox/Windows. He has Switch dev kit, which he paid for himself. Fanboy jargons are common among devs, like Quantic Dream trashing Xbox(now they are going multi platform). But he does make some valid points.

Well i have seen a lot of tweets from non Sony devs, but it looks like you didn't even tried quote them lol...fuck off.

You really sound fucking stupid.

Better than Sony 1st party devs singing praise to PS5.

Well they deliver the games atm, what has XGS gave you so far? Are you guys not happy enough with your 12TF machine?

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I'm missing the plot.

With announced decompressed speed, it takes 20 seconds to get to 100GB figure, how on Earth is that "instantly"?

You seem to be treating this as if all of this is being loaded into system ram or something, and not simply just a case of the CPU being bypassed altogether as opposed to the typical way where the GPU makes a request to the CPU for more data, they go to the hard drive, and then contents from the hard drive start getting copied into GPU memory.

On the contrary, it seems the scenario we're dealing with is one where the SSD is just being used directly like a slower, much larger amount of system RAM. In such a scenario it isn't necessarily about 100GB being accessed instantly all at once, like it needing to be loaded in somewhere like system RAM. It's more that anything across a 100GB stretch of a game's stored data on the SSD can be instantly called upon and used for the game without copying into system RAM.

I believe this is the way it's actually meant. How often has Microsoft said they can use the hard drive as virtual ram. So forget the 20 seconds. That's unnecessary because they were already able to hit anything within that 100GB pretty much whenever they felt like it, and it wouldn't take them 20 seconds to do so either. It'd be much, much faster than that. The SSD can instantly provide information to the GPU without having to go through system RAM.

This link explains it somewhat. Digital Foundry's Richard Leadbetter even did a whole video on o it. Clearly he knows what's going on.

AMD’s new SSG Technology blends an SSD with a GPU?!

AMD says its Solid State Graphics Technology will revolutionize professional GPU performance by adding NAND memory to its upcoming pro graphics cards.

www.pcworld.com

AMD said that given the relatively small amount of memory in a graphics card today, the GPU must slice and dice workloads and then manage the merging of those disparate parts. When the GPU wants more work, it has to signal the CPU, which then fetches data from the larger pool of local system RAM or primary storage. This incurs latency.

With SSG, the CPU is bypassed entirely, which greatly reduces latency, AMD said. The company didn't disclose too many details, but SSG appears to be based on a standard M.2 interface using PCIe.

SSG would not replace graphics RAM itself, such as GDDR5+ or HBM or HBM2, as it would be too slow. The company's new Polaris-based Radeon RX 480, for example, has about 256GBps of memory bandwidth on tap. The best you can get out of a single M.2 interface today is 1.5GBps to 2GBps.

...

The SSG memory would be treated as part of a huge pool of RAM. If the GPU can't find its data in the local GDDR5+ or HBM RAM, it would then search the SSG. Only after that would it have to ask the CPU for what it wants.

Here's is Richard's video on it.



At 4:30 you see a large dataset using the SSD as RAM on the left side, and on the right side you see them attempting to load all that content in and out of RAM. The right side where they're trying to use system RAM is hitching and slowing up, the left side with the SSD is smooth. Xbox Series X's SSD is faster than the one they were using for this, especially when the content is compressed.

 

[too much eslim]

Optimised or not the ssd on the ps5 is miles faster than series x plus spiderman is also a last gen title.

It is, but that's not what I was debating.

 

[Deto]

Xbox Velocity Architecture - 100 GB is instantly accessible by the developer with a I/O Throughput of 4.8 GB/s

~5GB/s x 20s = 100GB

20s "instantly" ?

 

[psorcerer]

20s "instantly" ?

It's about latency.
Latency is much lower than HDD.

 

[Rightisright]

I feel this thread has lost its way talking about Dev x vs Dev y.
Can we please get back on track and talk about how the XSXs Velocity Architecture is superior to PS5s option.

 

[-kb-]

I feel this thread has lost its way talking about Dev x vs Dev y.
Can we please get back on track and talk about how the XSXs Velocity Architecture is superior to PS5s option.

 

[DForce]

Oh, God. Self-advertisement. Nothing there.
This guy is just milking clicks.
Ignore.

Makes a Twitter account In September
Uploads engine around November
Claims they're a developer for Switch, Xbox Series X and Windows 10.
Starts fanboying for Xbox


Hmm.. lol Very strange.

EDIT: Follows misterxmedia, Colt and Dealer on twitter. Yikes.

 

[psorcerer]

Uploads engine around November

There's nothing there. Just a readme file.

Starts fanboying for Xbox

Yup. Seems too much like it.

 

[Swaganizonda]

So basically not even half the speed of PS5. Gotcha.

Gonna be interesting to see side-by-side comparisons and the weakest ass console actually being faster processing data lol. I wonder if such a thing ever happened before.

 

[psorcerer]

EDIT: Follows misterxmedia, Colt and Dealer on twitter. Yikes.

I would suspect an alt of `misterxmedia`
This guy has too much spare time...

 

[DForce]

There's something I'm not understanding.

He says they're only using Kraken, but they're reporting that they're also using ZLIB.

The controller supports hardware decompression for the industry-standard ZLIB, but also the new Kraken format from RAD Game Tools, which offers an additional 10 per cent of compression efficiency. The bottom line? 5.5GBs of bandwidth translates into an effective eight or nine gigabytes per second fed into the system. "By the way, in terms of performance, that custom decompressor equates to nine of our Zen 2 cores, that's what it would take to decompress the Kraken stream with a conventional CPU," Cerny reveals.

 

[-kb-]

If we are into devs theres also this from Void2D and Void3D game engine dev for XSX, Windows 10 and Nintendo Switch.


















This needs a thread.

This is the same dev who was adamant that the PS5 had no raytracing. I dont think that they are the best to consult regarding PS5 tbh.

 

[nikolino840]

I feel this thread has lost its way talking about Dev x vs Dev y.
Can we please get back on track and talk about how the XSXs Velocity Architecture is superior to PS5s option.

Is the same but with half Speed
Both help to load in game objects more fast to use less cpu

 

[SLB1904]

There's something I'm not understanding.

He says they're only using Kraken, but they're reporting that they're also using ZLIB.

everyone is an expert. ill just wait to see proper demos

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Makes a Twitter account In September
Uploads engine around November
Claims they're a developer for Switch, Xbox Series X and Windows 10.
Starts fanboying for Xbox


Hmm.. lol Very strange.

EDIT: Follows misterxmedia, Colt and Dealer on twitter. Yikes.

Oh, snap, LOL

 

[HawarMiran]

Nope, majority are 3rd party devs. Do some research instead of spewing crap. So, cut the crap



Also, DICE developer is missing

Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition

Its what a useless driveby from the very first page.

www.resetera.com

these tweets have me hyped. I think we will see game demos from Sony soon . I hope they don't make us wait until after the release of Ghost of Tsushima..... That would be total torture.

 

[Bernkastel]

 

[DForce]

This guy still thinks it will cost 399 USD with that custom SSD. GAF has been wrong about PS5 on almost everything for a while.

I swore it was the github crowd were saying it's going to be a 399 console because they want to mee tthat lower price point which is why they went for 9.2TF.

 

[policestationx]

I swore it was the github crowd were saying it's going to be a 399 console because they want to mee tthat lower price point which is why they went for 9.2TF.

Because no ones had predicted Sony to OC boost GPU frequency to 2.23GHz that forced them to not cheapen the thermal solution plus over-engineered SSD.

 

[DForce]

Because no ones had predicted Sony to OC boost GPU frequency to 2.23GHz that forced them to not cheapen the thermal solution plus over-engineered SSD.

SSD was well known.


People were assuming would be hot running an older Navi chip but people thought it was possible ever since they found out RNDA 2 would be on the PS5.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Guy really, really knows his shit when it comes to compression. It looks to be a specialty of his.

 

[Goliathy]

Nope, majority are 3rd party devs. Do some research instead of spewing crap. So, cut the crap



Also, DICE developer is missing

Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition

Its what a useless driveby from the very first page.

www.resetera.com

This just shows how huge the Sony fanbase is.
don't want to now how many press and magazine journalists are Sony fanboys. Maybe that's why Sony exclusive games get so many high scores? Lol

let's be real here. Yes the ps5 has a faster ssd. But a slower gpu, cpu, memory, worse RT... come on man.
the Xbox ssd is already extremely fast, it's not like it's Slow or anything.,, and games will be developed around that.
why would a multiplatform dev waste time and resource just for the Sony ssd? Maybe first party, yes but not multiplatform. And even if so, it's just the ssd... there are many more important things in hardware.

how can one seriously think that having a faster ssd will Be more important than having a faster gpu, cpu, memory? Seriously?!
let's just look at the facts... no bullshit please.. it's getting ridiculous .

 

[-kb-]

This just shows how huge the Sony fanbase is.
don't want to now how many press and magazine journalists are Sony fanboys. Maybe that's why Sony exclusive games get so many high scores? Lol

let's be real here. Yes the ps5 has a faster ssd. But a slower gpu, cpu, memory, worse RT... come on man.
the Xbox ssd is already extremely fast, it's not like it's Slow or anything.,, and games will be developed around that.
why would a multiplatform dev waste time and resource just for the Sony ssd? Maybe first party, yes but not multiplatform. And even if so, it's just the ssd... there are many more important things in hardware.

how can one seriously think that having a faster ssd will Be more important than having a faster gpu, cpu, memory? Seriously?!
let's just look at the facts... no bullshit please.. it's getting ridiculous .

The differences between everything is about at 20% aside form the SSD. It really doesnt seem like that match, small drop in resolution should be that.

 

[Goliathy]

The differences between everything is about at 20% aside form the SSD. It really doesnt seem like that match, small drop in resolution should be that.

It's a lot if you combine everything. And I think it's more. We still don't know how often the ps5 even is at FULL CLOCK... so we don't know how often we are even at 10 tflops...

But we will see when the multiplatform games arrive how they will look.

 

[HawarMiran]

This just shows how huge the Sony fanbase is.
don't want to now how many press and magazine journalists are Sony fanboys. Maybe that's why Sony exclusive games get so many high scores? Lol

let's be real here. Yes the ps5 has a faster ssd. But a slower gpu, cpu, memory, worse RT... come on man.
the Xbox ssd is already extremely fast, it's not like it's Slow or anything.,, and games will be developed around that.
why would a multiplatform dev waste time and resource just for the Sony ssd? Maybe first party, yes but not multiplatform. And even if so, it's just the ssd... there are many more important things in hardware.

how can one seriously think that having a faster ssd will Be more important than having a faster gpu, cpu, memory? Seriously?!
let's just look at the facts... no bullshit please.. it's getting ridiculous .

I agree Crackdown 3 deserved Goty and a 90+ rating