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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
BGs BGs

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149102.jpg
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Insane Metal said:
So, I was thinking here. Both consoles will have pretty important technologies to improve framerate and avoid slowdowns and stuttering. They'll both support a multitude of dynamic resolutions and LODs, they'll both have Smartshift and Sony goes even a step beyond on this with their variable clocks, their CPUs are actually really good this time around. This is a huge win for gamers.
Click to expand...

You may say so, except that XSX will not have smartshift/variable clocks, it'll use traditional fixed clocks for both CPU and GPU while gaming.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Thirty7ven said:
I can only imagine what this generation means for third party developers like Bethesda or Ubisoft. Suddenly games like Beyond Good and Evil 2 and Starfield don't sound just like pie in the sky ideas, but actual games.
Click to expand...

Man, Beyond Good and Evil 2 is one of my most anticipated games on PS5! Never played the first, but this new one looks promising. The mixed species would be one of the most interesting aspects, along with exploration and ship recruitment. The air combat looked good as well, although melee combat doesn't look that polished.

Art-Of-Beyond-Good-And-Evil-2-1.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


I personally couldn't comprehend the game when revealed, couldn't see how that would be possible. Star Citizen sealed it. I would expect much more better graphics that this game has been migrated to be a next-gen game now. I hope next Ubi event will show us something.
 
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C

Corndog

Banned
BadBreathOfTheWild said:
It’s what everyone wants to know. There’s no argument that the Engine and Lumen and Nanite are scalable, and even that the demo shown could be modified to get the best out of even a two year old Android device using older techniques.

The way I see it, either this particular demo that Sony had a hand in really was designed to showcase PS5’s strengths with the excessive amount of movie quality assets being pulled in.
Or Epic made something that doesn’t really even tickle Sony’s IO, and it wasn’t a demo for Sony showcasing what PS5 can do, and that perhaps even further than that Sony and Epics conversations over the years have lead to Sony really fucking up and overspending cash and die space on IO accelerators at the expense of CUs that are completely redundant.

I find the latter half of the second scenario hard to believe, but can imagine that Epic came up short on delivering something that really showed what Sony’s IO could do (despite saying it does) and are a bit coy about divulging that.
For me it makes sense to take things at face value rather than in invent (even plausible) conspiracy theories to just dismiss what was shown as nothing special.
It also seems that we’re willing to accept that XSX will outright have a modest GPU compute advantage that could have a demo written to showcase it, but that it’s preposterous to accept that PS5 has a significant IO bandwidth and latency advantage that has had a demo written for it in partnership with Epic to promote PS5.

The implication behind all of it seems to be that 18% extra compute is a big deal but 2x or more IO speed directly addressable from the GPU through a significant amount of fixed function hardware accelerators is a complete waste of time, an oversight, and doesn’t enable any new rendering techniques that Cerny and Sweeney were talking about.

It’s like one toy needs to win in all categories.
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t the obvious answer be it was made to show off UE5 and it’s features. Why promote the ps5 unless they were paid too. Is that what you are saying?
 
C

Corndog

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:
With textures being roughly 60% of total game size, with many LOD's, duplicates in HDD, and PS5's 10% better compression, I would say they'll remain around 50-200GB in size for few years, depending on DLC's as well. I can see PS5's linear/semi-linear games use insane 8K assets, and Open-world games using 4K-1080p assets.
Click to expand...
Bo_Hazem. Why do you keep talking about duplicates? I’m beginning to think you don’t have the slightest idea how any of this works.
The reason for duplicates on a hard drive is to minimize the time it takes the head on the hard drive to get to a piece of data. It is like a record player. If a piece of data is on the outer edge and the head is in the middle it has to move a long distance. If you put multiple instances on disk the it goes to the closest one and reads it.
Now here is the important part. An ssd doesn’t have any moving parts. The amount of time to access any data is the same no matter where it is stored. Hence the reason no duplicates are needed.
Do you understand?
 
C

Corndog

Banned
Bonsaibäumchen said:
Game data is alwyas encrypted.
Otherwise you could just open every game with notepad and read the sourcecode...
Click to expand...
Games don’t contain source code. They are compiled into executables. The executable reads the data.
I don’t know how modern games do copy protection but encrypting them in their entirety seems like overkill
 
saintjules

saintjules

Member
Not sure if posted already. Did anyone listen to the podcast? Some of the subreddit comments are making it seem like the excitement level should be mild for the Sony reveal:



 
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IllegalLemon

IllegalLemon

Member
M-V2 said:
Preach Mr.Sweeney

o1OuyUZ.jpg
Click to expand...
Well He ain't wrong. A lot of people are making assumptions that only a toddler with a vivid imagination or an insane conspiracy theorist would conjure in any amount. I mean i couldn't even make half of that shit up if i tried. It gave sony even more attention and it's dragging them even further into the spotlight, giving them free press.
 
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JareBear: Remastered

JareBear: Remastered

Banned


A dev from Firesprite Games, studio behind roguelike survival horror game The Persistence talks about why games developed for SSDs will be better. Doesn't mention PS5 specifically, but does also praise the DualSense controller

wccftech.com

SSD Impact on Games Will Be Massive as We Often Have to Discard Features Due to Long Loads, Says Dev

Firesprite's Stuart Tilley said that the impact of SSD in gameswill be massive as often features have to be discarded due to long load times.
wccftech.com wccftech.com

his comments on SSDs

I think the players are going to be the real winners here. The SSD is going to be massive to allow us to create larger worlds that load faster, to move quicker within them. It opens up possibilities for us. The new positional sound stuff is great for like, for games, being able to like play sound effects that feel like they're around you while you're on the couch, it's gonna make another big improvement. I think all the platforms have got a ton that they're offering. And I think it's gonna be a big win for players as far as I can see. It just is super exciting for us to be able to make our ambitions greater, sometimes you might have to discard a feature because it might require a long load, for example. Now, in the future, that may not be a problem. That'll very much directly allow us to make better games, I think that that's absolutely true.
Click to expand...

his comments on DualSense

We always strive to immerse the player in the world. The immersion comes through how you touch the game, and what you see of the game. Obviously the chipset improvements will help with the visuals and the audio, but control is a massive part of it. You know, being able to get a much better feel for the surface the character is walking on or the things they're carrying in their hands or whatever. Again, even to be able to start creating some game experiences that perhaps you're not quite used to. It's just great, as a game creator we wait a long time for next-gen stuff to come around, so it's kind of like Christmas in game development land in that sense.
Click to expand...
 
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C

Corndog

Banned
DeepEnigma said:
They were both constrained (and on equal footing for the most part) with their storage solutions. The IO is a big key factor here and how the bandwidth is utilized.
Click to expand...
Bull crap. Show me a post from the first couple of years of release where people said they were constrained by the hard drive. Does 900p ring a bell.
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
Corndog said:
Tons of people in this very thread have said otherwise. I have said they are wrong.
Click to expand...
Fans convincing themselves that the demo would be impossible elsewhere is something else, and of course should not be taken seriously.
Epic did not lie though. They had a marketing deal with Sony to demo UE5 on the PS5, but they never claimed that only the PS5 could run it.

People should know what to expect from UE, it scales with the hardware it runs on.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Corndog said:
Bo_Hazem. Why do you keep talking about duplicates? I’m beginning to think you don’t have the slightest idea how any of this works.
The reason for duplicates on a hard drive is to minimize the time it takes the head on the hard drive to get to a piece of data. It is like a record player. If a piece of data is on the outer edge and the head is in the middle it has to move a long distance. If you put multiple instances on disk the it goes to the closest one and reads it.
Now here is the important part. An ssd doesn’t have any moving parts. The amount of time to access any data is the same no matter where it is stored. Hence the reason no duplicates are needed.
Do you understand?
Click to expand...

My friend, you got confused, and I was comparing current gen to next gen in general in terms of games sizes, replying to FeiRR FeiRR :

www.neogaf.com

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

headline from PC Gamer "UE5 Demo runs better on laptops than on the PS5" https://www.pcgamer.com/unreal-engine-5-tech-demo-pc-performance/?utm_content=buffer813d7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw Reading through it, I think he is just going over the Epic...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com

After that speculating about PS5 games in terms of assets quality, that's it.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Ascend said:
:messenger_grimmacing_ Noooo. Go play it right now. It's got a great plot. Gameplay is definitely outdated though.
Click to expand...

Good thing is that this 2nd installment is actually a prequel, so I would expect a more polished, refined game (remake) of the first game after that? I found many people praising it and that's one of the things that pulled my attention. I just hope Ubisoft delivers.
 
M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Bo_Hazem said:
Man, Beyond Good and Evil 2 is one of my most anticipated games on PS5! Never played the first, but this new one looks promising. The mixed species would be one of the most interesting aspects, along with exploration and ship recruitment. The air combat looked good as well, although melee combat doesn't look that polished.

Art-Of-Beyond-Good-And-Evil-2-1.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


I personally couldn't comprehend the game when revealed, couldn't see how that would be possible. Star Citizen sealed it. I would expect much more better graphics that this game has been migrated to be a next-gen game now. I hope next Ubi event will show us something.
Click to expand...
You need to play that shit right now, tho. It's so good. The first game I mean.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Kerlurk said:
Couple reasons why Sony probably went with zlib (from zlib's website):
- zlib is designed to be a free, general-purpose, legally unencumbered -- that is, not covered by any patents -- lossless data-compression library for use on virtually any computer hardware and operating system.
- zlib's memory footprint can also be specified fairly precisely.

Remember that zlib is on-chip in the PS5, and it's buffers for decompression are completely on-chip. No CPU, or main-memory is needed. This is huge, and accounts for why faster SSD's on the PC show little to no performance gains when loading games, because, the loading part is small part of it. It's the decompression of assets in memory by the CPU cores, which take up the most time.

With the PS5, main memory, and the CPU cores are not impacted, and thus, initial game loading will be much faster than any PC. Because the CPU's are not needed for decompression, thus also allowing assets to be decompressed in real-time as your playing the game, and the regular game code and memory will not be impacted at anytime with this overhead.

Any Pro model that comes out, will have to use the same compression, or all compressed assets for a game will have to be duplicated to support both compression standards. I can't see that happening in the same generation.

Oodle data compression algorithms are not free, and we have no ideal, what the cost is in number of transistors to implement on a chip, or what size the buffers have to be for decompression.
Click to expand...

Although Zlib is supported, Kraken is the main compression system here. Most likely it's paid by Sony, so devs don't need to pay again for it. Kraken is way superior as well, and lossless as well as I understood.
 
C

Corndog

Banned
Bo_Hazem said:
My friend, you got confused, and I was comparing current gen to next gen in general in terms of games sizes, replying to FeiRR FeiRR :

www.neogaf.com

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

headline from PC Gamer "UE5 Demo runs better on laptops than on the PS5" https://www.pcgamer.com/unreal-engine-5-tech-demo-pc-performance/?utm_content=buffer813d7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw Reading through it, I think he is just going over the Epic...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com

After that speculating about PS5 games in terms of assets quality, that's it.
Click to expand...
Gotcha.
 
M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Bo_Hazem said:
Seems like I missed a great game, which is rare. But I can't play an old game :lollipop_tears_of_joy: I'll go with the prequel (Beyond Good and Evil 2), then I think the'll just recycle the first one with the new engine for a remake (1st one).
Click to expand...
Well that 360 remaster runs beautifully and thanks to stylised graphics, it's simply good as new. No I mean seriously.
 
Clintizzle

Clintizzle

Lord of Edge.
Any rumours for surprises we'll see outside of the Sony and MS shows next month?

Did CBOAT ever come back to this thread?
 
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L

Larryfox

Member
Bo_Hazem said:
Man, Beyond Good and Evil 2 is one of my most anticipated games on PS5! Never played the first, but this new one looks promising. The mixed species would be one of the most interesting aspects, along with exploration and ship recruitment. The air combat looked good as well, although melee combat doesn't look that polished.

Art-Of-Beyond-Good-And-Evil-2-1.jpg


maxresdefault.jpg


I personally couldn't comprehend the game when revealed, couldn't see how that would be possible. Star Citizen sealed it. I would expect much more better graphics that this game has been migrated to be a next-gen game now. I hope next Ubi event will show us something.
Click to expand...
Same the scope of that game excited me so much it’s a shame how early they announced it though.
 
C

Corndog

Banned
Vaztu said:
BCPack is just an evolution to previous texture compression methods. @DrKeo talked about this pages back.



On another note,




(He talks about Virtual memory for textures, that word is still present)

If rumours of XSX having 100GB of Virtual Memory is true, I don't see how that is a good thing. Like a user was mentioning several pages back, how is this limit going to apply to games above 100GB. How will it work when switching 4-5 games quickly?

One way I can see this being true is that they use it for File IO and Mapping. MS mentioned that they reduced TWO CPU Zen 2 cores worth of workload to one-tenth CPU Zen 2 core worth of workload for File IO and Mapping. Is this how they achieved it ?

There will be latency issues with this, which I don't see too many people talking about (only SSD bandwidth). Even if Virtual Memory is false, the latency issue is still there. Might not be a big problem but it exists.
Click to expand...

What game requires you to access all data at the same time? As long as the current area/level fits in 100 GB it shouldn’t be a problem. I assume there is nothing forcing this 100 GB to not be a dynamic section of the game.
 
Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Banned
M1chl said:
Well that 360 remaster runs beautifully and thanks to stylised graphics, it's simply good as new. No I mean seriously.
Click to expand...

Hmm, might consider it:


But I don't have the power in me to play old games, I just can't even for free :lollipop_downcast_sweat:

Larryfox said:
Same the scope of that game excited me so much it’s a shame how early they announced it though.
Click to expand...

Yup, so many delays, but how the community contributed to the game with art and draws it means we are gonna see lots of unique stuff in there! The wait might be worth it.
 
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
Corndog said:
What game requires you to access all data at the same time? As long as the current area/level fits in 100 GB it shouldn’t be a problem. I assume there is nothing forcing this 100 GB to not be a dynamic section of the game.
Click to expand...

Don't the other games take up that space as well for the switching function?
 
Crimson_Fate

Crimson_Fate

Member
If the UE5 demo on PS5 was doing 1440 @ 40FPS then XSX should be able to do about 1440 @ 46FPS providing the SSD is fast enough to handle the stream.

We really need to know what the max streaming speed needed for that demo was. Because if the XSX SSD solution is enough then the larger question is if the Sony SSD solution was overkill. The last thing I want to see is sony forcing its use as a gimmicky afterthought in some of the 1st party games.
 
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