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ANIMAL1975
Member
Yep, that's why we in the job call it the killing kneeDozen or so surgeries and needing more work on my shoulder and knees, nothing too bad though
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T
Three Jackdaws
Unconfirmed Member
those pigeon jokes are not getting old anytime soonI've been watching the speculation thread since the beginning and @HeisenbergFX4 turned out to be one of the best insiders that we have.
Oh and he didn't give us a bunch of pigeons.
One of these days I'll get my revenge!!!!
Shout out to @o'dium
Are you the pitcher that killed that Pigeon with a fastball? What did that pigeon say?Baseball but thats about as much info as you can drag out of me
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Ascend
Member
How are you going to tell the I/O on the PS5 what to do if you don't use the CPU?
On another note, maybe suddenly everyone will like this person;
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yes, the AMD's SSG workstation card vs nVidia's, rendering 250B polygons benefiting from its built-in 2TB SSG (Solid State Graphics). Nvidia's card just crashed, didn't even open the file
(2017)(Timestamped)
Why build a $7,000, 2TB graphics card? AMD explains its monster Radeon Pro SSG
The AMD Radeon Pro SSG has 2TB of memory, making it the most storage-heavy graphics card in the world. What would you use it for?
www.digitaltrends.com
The 2TB model was $7,000 USD. Now a smart ass will pay that much and run the UE5 demo with a total of $8-10K USD behemoth PC and laugh at a $500 PS5.
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You wouldn’t put game state on ssd.
3liteDragon
Member
I have a feeling we're not gonna see the console design and they're just gonna show us the games at the event. I think Sony's gonna pull an Apple here and show off the console design a month before it's launch date.
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Shmunter
Member
Game will request asset and the rest is handled seamless according to Cerney. Of course game code is on cpu but that’s the extent of it.
On XsX you have the game code doing the same as PS5, but the asset call will come back to cpu to handle it vs PS5 the i/o block will handle it.
I don’t know if this is a comparable version but this kraken decompressor looks to be about 5k source code unless I missed a file or something. That is not very big. Of course you would have to account for data storage as well.
ooz/ at master · powzix/ooz
Open source Kraken / Mermaid / Selkie / Leviathan / LZNA / Bitknit decompressor - powzix/ooz
github.com
Insane Metal
Member
There's hardware there to do exactly that function. The CPU is not needed at all for that.
Thedtrain
Member
Yea that’s neat. Played college football and it always surprised me how many athletes were into gaming beyond madden
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The cpu or gpu will need to be involved to at least request the data and set aside space for data even if custom hardware does the heavy lifting.There's hardware there to do exactly that function. The CPU is not needed at all for that.
Thedtrain
Member
Man, Johnson felt so terrible
Ascend
Member
What about the GPU cache?
Sinthor
Gold Member
Those reflections at the very end of the video look crazy...
I was just watching that video. Wow.. Amazing. The only thing is..the cars look real and it looks like a pair of real cars driving to me...except... I don't know what it is. Something draws my eyes to the tires though as they go over pavement. I know it's not like cars like these leave a smoke trail from their tires everywhere they go but there's something about the tires that tells my brain this is fake still. It's kind of like how the eyes on face models used to be dead. So it was like an animated cadaver to me. Maybe the tires are staying too round despite the speed and turns and so my eyes are saying this is fake? Anyone know what this is. Because other than that...I'd think I was watching something on ESPN.
Ascend
Member
Then what's the function of the I/O on the XSX?
Shmunter
Member
The only additional I/o specific hardware on XsX is the decompressor. The rest is traditional like last gen.
MS claims to have optimised their cpu based I/o software to be magnitudes faster now tho. But personally I’m calling secret sauce shenanigans here. It’s feels like PR to combat Sony’s big strides in the sector. Why now? Why not previously on PC etc. if it’s just software tweaks.
The claims are too out there, 10%, 20, even 30 I can get behind but close to 100% efficiency gain is ridiculous, and likely only a very specific isolated example that wont be repeated in the real world.
I’m saying, take 2 cpu cores out of the equation for XsX i/o right now.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
I think they'll bring tyre physics this time around like Project Cars 2, amazing stuff:
I hope they take it to the next level.
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TherapistGaymer
Banned
Man please you are the truth! Thanks for sticking it out
MasterCornholio
Member
So how do you keep multiple states on only 16GB of ram?
rnlval
Member
XBO has higher memory bandwidth when compared to PS4, but XBO couldn't overcome its CU/ALU bound issues.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Well, bandwidth is only a part of the matter, we're talking about SSD direct streaming at full potential speed with no latency (bottlenecks).
rnlval
Member
There are latencies outside of register storage. Zero level cache has latencies.
You don’t. You run 1 game at a time just like you do now.
I am going to make some assumptions here. When you quit a game the current contents of ram are saved to ssd. The max ram usage for a game are 13.5 GB. Their are probably other tricks you could do to decrease having to save all the data in ram if you wanted to lesson ssd storage.
when you switch to a new game the current games state is stored and the new one is loaded in from the ssd into ram. They may have some hardware on board to assist with this but who knows. Once new state is loaded it uses the current ram plus the mapped data from the ssd game data files, not the game state info.
Again if you have some programming experience think of it as have an object with current state data as it’s private data variables. This object also has a function that retrieves data from storage as needed.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I'm a simple man, and I just watched results confirming the tech talk, and UE5 demo so far demonstrated what's considered impossible in gaming, the pinnacle of gaming graphics combined with seamless transitions and speed. Now I'll wait for Sony to show their optimized goodies to polish it.
No such thing as no latency. Low latency is probably what you mean. And everything has bottlenecks.
As far as system I/o the ssd still has less then 2% the bandwidth of system ram. The ssd can access 5.5 GB per second. The ram has a bandwidth of 448 GB per second.
It only had more bandwidth for small data sets.
MasterCornholio
Member
16GB (probably even less than that) isn't an issue with these systems.
I'm going to assume that the PS5 can do the same thing because it doesn't sound difficult to do. For comparisons sake Sonys console should be able to do that at twice the speed. So probably 1-2 seconds. That's extremely impressive.
rnlval
Member
Yes, the AMD's SSG workstation card vs nVidia's, rendering 250B polygons benefiting from its built-in 2TB SSG (Solid State Graphics). Nvidia's card just crashed, didn't even open the file
(Timestamped)
Why build a $7,000, 2TB graphics card? AMD explains its monster Radeon Pro SSG
The AMD Radeon Pro SSG has 2TB of memory, making it the most storage-heavy graphics card in the world. What would you use it for?
The 2TB model was $7,000 USD. Now a smart ass will pay that much and run the UE5 demo with a total of $8-10K USD behemoth PC and laugh at a $500 PS5.
NVIDIA's counter strike https://devblogs.nvidia.com/gpudirect-storage/
GV100 Volta's direct access to PCIe NVMe storage aka "GPUDirect Storage". This is a driver issue. The GPU is directly accessing data from NVME SSD without system memory buffer i.e. "unbuffered I/O".
Radeon Pro SSG (based off Fiji) has two PCIe 3.0 NVME slots which are similar to a single PCIe 4.0 NVMe slot (8GB/s potential).
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Metroiddarks
Member
I think this opinion explain well why the clock and workload are not same thing between other concepts.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/pl...ve-ot-secret-agent-cerny.175780/post-34642515
https://www.resetera.com/threads/pl...ve-ot-secret-agent-cerny.175780/post-34642515
Shmunter
Member
If they are smart, a lot less than that. The software hopefully distinguishes game state vs assets. Suspend game state only maybe only a couple of gig. When resuming, reload state memory and the asset portion can be re-loaded off the game install.
However the above likely not viable for last gen bc games as they can be installed on USB storage.
MasterCornholio
Member
That actually sounds better however it seems trickier to me. I guess this will depend on how lazy the developers are.
HarryKS
Member
Ok Curt Schilling.Being a Sony fan first and foremost I hoped my info was wrong and not only would the PS5 have the superior SSD but have that 13 tfs so many other people kept saying.
Even had a couple of those guys PM here saying how far off I was and I better get on the 13 tf or look like a fool.
Baseball but thats about as much info as you can drag out of me
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I assume so.
Rusco Da Vino
Member
It's 1995, Microsoft launches Windows 95
Sorry for the off topic but the video is fucking hilarious
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MasterCornholio
Member
It's 1995, Microsoft relased Windows 95
Sorry for the off topic but the video is fucking hilarious
thebigmanjosh
Member
The DMA controller primarily (with assistance from the cache flush and coherency hardware), which amounts to 1-2 Zen 2 cores worth of processing.
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ToadMan
Member
You wouldn't? Where else would it go - power of the cloud?
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ToadMan
Member
I thought MS said one core reserved for O/S....? but then again maybe devs have to use more CPU themselves to get their I/O operations running than the equivalent PS5 implementation.
MasterCornholio
Member
So the dma just randomly loads whatever it feels like without any request from the cpu? That sounds really plausible. Sure hope the gpu and cpu have some magic way of knowing where this new data is stored.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I guess the CPU has to tell the DMA what it needs. However the DMA does most of the work so it does free up the CPU.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Lol. As I've said before..... people who have connections or know/hear things that won't get them fired or ruined because of NDA's are under NO obligation to share what they know or hear. Sometimes people act like they would rather NOT hear any of this information, because 100% of it might not be 100% accurate.
Really, people? You'd rather not hear any rumors or informed speculation and just have NOTHING to go on or talk about until companies like MS and Sony deign to provide all the answers? Somehow I doubt your honesty if you're nodding your head right now....
For my part, I appreciate people sharing what they hear and/or providing informed speculation. It gives us more interesting things to discuss prior to the release of information instead of just wildly speculating all on our own. These people don't NEED to tell us anything, and yep...sometimes they're going to be wrong. Sometimes VERY wrong. It is POSSIBLE sometimes this is intentional but more likely that what they are told isn't fully informed, is in itself disinformation or one of a number of other reasons...most of them not malicious.
So please keep sharing information and informed speculation, people! It definitely makes things in the forum more lively and has at the worst, sparked some interesting technical information being disbursed and some interesting debates as well!
Sinthor
Gold Member
Good grief. I haven't seen ANYONE say that this demo wasn't possible to run on a PC or XSX. What has been SAID is that it is POSSIBLE that the demo would have to be altered to use lower quality streamed assets due to the PS5's extremely fast SSD and I/O implementation. That has been implied by Epic as well, though not explicitly stated.
That's COMPLETELY different. This demo will undoubtedly run on an iPhone for Christ's sake. But if you think that the XSX and PS5 wouldn't be running it at higher quality than the iPhone, I have some nice swamp land I'd like to sell you.
Can we put this straw man to bed that 'people are claiming the XSX won't run the Lumen demo?' You KNOW you're just obscuring the facts and arguing a false position. How about we stipulate to the FACT that UE5 is a multi-platform engine that is BUILT to run on as many platforms as possible and then agree that we'd all like to see this specific demo code available in the future to compare on various platforms, once UE5 is released? Because we CANNOT know the answer to these questions for certain until that happens. Till then, the logical assumption IS that various platforms will require some adjustments when running a demo like this or others. And unless you want to speculate that the XSX is somehow just as fast or faster in I/O so that it can stream the same or higher quality assets in realtime...the logical assumption (FOR NOW) is that the demo was purpose built for the PS5 and this particular strength, just like EPIC said. No big conspiracy here and as many others have stated as well, surely a similar demo could be built to showcase the strength of the XSX and likely do some things that PC's and the PS5 can't do currently either. Happy now?
Man... more than 10 pages of this shit keeps coming up. ENOUGH ALREADY. Hate to break it to some of you, but your favorite toy, whether it's the PS5 or the XSX, are likely NOT GOING TO BE THE BEST AT EVERYTHING. So PS5 fans will probably have to acknowledge that the XSX has some advantages in certain areas and XSX fans will have to accept the same for the PS5. And PC fans will probably have to accept that BOTH will be stronger at least than the most high end gaming PC setups at some things..at least for a while.
Now we can quibble about this or that, but not accepting those FACTS is just a road to pain...and not conducive to debate either. STOP. PLEASE!
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ToadMan
Member
And that will be identical for xsex with the added overhead that the xsex will be using the cpu for shunting the data around.
Sinthor
Gold Member
Boy, do we think that Star Citizen might come to the next gen boxes or have they said anything about that? That would be AWESOME!Man, Beyond Good and Evil 2 is one of my most anticipated games on PS5! Never played the first, but this new one looks promising. The mixed species would be one of the most interesting aspects, along with exploration and ship recruitment. The air combat looked good as well, although melee combat doesn't look that polished.
I personally couldn't comprehend the game when revealed, couldn't see how that would be possible. Star Citizen sealed it. I would expect much more better graphics that this game has been migrated to be a next-gen game now. I hope next Ubi event will show us something.
ToadMan
Member
And xsex apeears to have more of those latencies from the specs available today.
Sinthor
Gold Member
I think it's you actually, who are missing the point. As you note there's less time to access data on an SSD. What Bo has pointed out, talking about game and files sizes is accurate. The elimination of the need to duplicate assets, textures, etc. in multiple places on storage to reduce seek/load times can help reduce the file size of games and the size of installations, and/or allow that space to be used for higher resolution and detail assets instead. That's the point he's been making. I think you're misunderstanding and thinking he's talking about GPU processing or something maybe?
MasterCornholio
Member
Where are these latencies coming from?
I had a conversation with
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
about this and it doesn't seem to be an issue in the XSX. I would like to hear your side of this.
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