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[Bernd Lauert]

is flight simulator dog shit on xsx due to 30 fps?

You wouldn't ask this question if you ever played Flight Sim. The camera pans are slow and don't destroy image quality via extensive motion blur. It's the one game where I don't choose performance mode (the game has a performance mode with unlocked frame rate up to 120 Hz). I played Psychonauts 2 at 120 Hz btw because 60 Hz was too blurry so I'm usually quite picky.

 

[Woggleman]

60FPS looks better in motion and it plays better as well. I will take a slight downgrade in graphics as a tradeoff. HFW will be 60FPS in PS5 and I am sure it will look incredible.

 

[mansoor1980]

You wouldn't ask this question if you ever played Flight Sim. The camera pans are slow and don't destroy image quality via extensive motion blur. It's the one game where I don't choose performance mode (the game has a performance mode with unlocked frame rate up to 120 Hz). I played Psychonauts 2 at 120 Hz btw because 60 Hz was too blurry so I'm usually quite picky.

seen my nephew play it extensively but he wont allow me to touch his console , point is a consistent 30 fps allows developers to push as much detail as they can and for a game like flight simulator it does wonders.

 

[Soodanim]

OP must be a troll.

 

[skit_data]

Demon's Souls and Ratchet & Clank are evidence on the contrary.

Its the crossgen strategy that keeps them limited.

 

[Arioco]

No, it's not. 60 fps is also graphical fidelity and it makes a huge difference.

 

[odhiex]

60fps is great, 30fps is also fine.

What bothers me the most is when the framerate is jumpy all over the place. Unstable 60 with the horrible frame pacing made my head and eyes hurt.

Visual fidelity for me is something that is hard to measure. Something that looks realistic and sharp could be very unpleasant to see.

 

[Dunky]

I'm curious about all this hate towards 30fps. I mean, people speak as it was unplayable, but everyone here we have played The Last of us, God of War, Zelda Breath of the wild, and hundreds of 30fps games without no problem and considered them masterpieces. And now they become unplayable dogshit?

You can say 60fps are preferable, but I think is hyperbolic the reaction against 30fps when we have played and enjoyed hundreds or thousands of games at 30fps.

It was a problem especially when you came from PC and where used to playing game with 60fps.

I still think a lot of console gamers don't understand the different. It's not about response time it's about the smoothness on any game. Having a choppy shimmer effect on all objects at 30 fps when you move the camera around is not good.

 

[Dunky]

No, it's not. 60 fps is also graphical fidelity and it makes a huge difference.

This! 60fps is fidelity mode in motion. 30fps is for still screenshots

 

[Rykan]

Not driveclub again.... People should be forced to play it every 6 months to remember how it actually looks. Instead they just post low resolution gifs.

I know, right.

Here is the thing with driving or racing games: It's super easy to make them look way better than they really do in screenshots and angled video recordings.
Don't get me wrong: Driveclub looks fantastic, but it doesn't hold up to moden, current gen racers obviously. Except for rain effects. Those are still amazing.

It's baffling how many casuals want to go back to 30 fps. Like why? It doesn't even matter if it would make the graphics better because the whole screen blurs as soon as you move the camera.

I'm curious about all this hate towards 30fps. I mean, people speak as it was unplayable, but everyone here we have played The Last of us, God of War, Zelda Breath of the wild, and hundreds of 30fps games without no problem and considered them masterpieces. And now they become unplayable dogshit?

You can say 60fps are preferable, but I think is hyperbolic the reaction against 30fps when we have played and enjoyed hundreds or thousands of games at 30fps.

Because FPS is one of those things that as soon as you've experienced it and become adjusted to it, it's very difficult to go back. The improved response time, the reduced motion blur, the smoothness of the animation. It immidiately stands out when a game runs at 30 fps instead of 60.

 

[M1chl]

60 FPS is the fidelity

 

[rofif]

I am totally fine with 30fps. It just takes some time to get used to after posting 60. Just as 60 takes after playing 120.
Uncharted 4 or tlou2 were 30 fps and are better because of that. Not worse.
You remember how uncharted 4 looked. Not that it was a bit more fluid.

60 is better but if 30 can bring much better graphics and it's a suitable genre, 30 is fine.

To those stubbornly saying they will never play 30fps have again. Lol no bitch wait for next bit don't AAA.
On a serious note. Limit fps to 20 on pc and play for 10 minutes. Then switch to 30 and it will feel like heaven. It's all in the brain

 

[Banjo64]

No, 4k is. 60fps is essential.

 

[skneogaf]

I see no problem with developers putting out a game that has 30fps mode in it but we the "players" should demand a 60fps mode and in some cases 120fps mode.

The developers insomniac are are the best so far at the fps modes on next generation games and they should be the catalyst of how it's done going forward.

They found a way of improving on 30fps by using the 120hz modes on TVs and giving us 40fps.

Fingers crossed for playstation support for variable refresh rate as that should help but until everyone has it 30fps, 40fps, 60fps, 120fps and vrr modes are needed.

 

[rofif]

No, 4k is. 60fps is essential.

For me 4k is more important. I use big tv up close and most stuff looks like shit if it's not 4k. Even when I had 27" 4k, it looked better than lower resolutions.
That said 4k with good dlss is still good. But raw 1440p looks like ass

 

[M1chl]

To those who prefer 30 fps, must be more of a movie fans than the game fans.

 

[TheRedRiders]

It's a double edged sword in my opinion.

I've been gaming on consoles all my life so 30 FPS has been the standard for me, however when I got my first PS5 a few months ago, I played my backlog of PS4 games in 60 FPS mode and the experience was truly transformative, especially when it comes to games like Ghost Of Tsushima, God of War and especially Spiderman Remastered, that Performance Ray Tracing mode is eye melting.

However I do understand those who prefer more visual fidelity and higher resolutions over higher frames per second, it really just depends on the person.

That being said I think it's important that developers offer both 30 and 60 FPS modes for their games, the more options the better. There maybe concern on how 60 FPS can be achieved on "next-gen" tittles which push the hardware, but we must also remember that the next-generation consoles (PS5 and Series X/S) offer a massive leap in optimisation capabilities for developers over what was capable on previous generations, especially when it comes to leveraging Primitive/Mesh Shaders, this will allow for much tighter and effective control over workloads being issued to the GPU and make a 60 FPS target more viable.

 

[Devilich]

Yes

 

[N0S]

Fuck 30fps. If the game doesnt have a performance mode Im not buying.

 

[Miles708]

60 FPS is the fidelity

We're not talking about still images and people usually don't do Digital Foundry 400x zoomed comparisons (except if you're desperate to show off, even to yourself) so frame rate must count as graphical fidelty as much as textures and models.

 

[Whitecrow]

I

Imagine still wanting shitty framerate even now that 60fps or more is FINALLY becoming the standard on console, rofl. Some people are unbelievable.

Imagine thinking that framerate is the only thing that matters..

 

[Leyasu]

I will sacrifice graphical fidelity for 60fps any day of the week and twice on Saturday. I am not going back to 30fps, nothing makes a console look and feel weak like chugging along just to hit 30fps.

This person gets it

If it ain't 60hz, I am not playing it

 

[Paasei]

I

Imagine thinking that framerate is the only thing that matters..

Todays graphics and 60 fps (or more) is all you need. Most (upcoming) PS5/XSX games have a cartoony graphics style, anyway.

 

[TJC]

I just rewatched GT trailer in 4k on my Oled, shit looks sexy as F even though not my type of game.

 

[Miles708]

I

Imagine thinking that framerate is the only thing that matters..

Quite frankly if these new consoles can't push great graphics at 60fps, they're junk.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

.......No.

 

[Giles]

For me frame rate is king, sub 60fps just feels jarring and uncomfortable to play. With upscaling techniques improving all the time it's hard to differentiate native 4K to sub native 4K from the sofa.

During the late ps3 / Xbox 360 era I ended up switching to PC gaming because I couldn't stand 30fps battlefield games. 120fps for the first time was just eye opening. If we regressed to sub 60 again I'd definitely make the switch again and wouldn't even be missing out with ps exclusive seemingly all making their way to pc now.

 

[Tommi84]

But 60fps IS part of graphical fidelity. Let's 30fps where it belongs - in the past

 

[anthony2690]

Just give me 60fps, and for the love of God, you drive club fans NEED genuine help.

Edit:
Even my bloody missus off all people could tell how clunky/weird on her eyes watch dogs legion was in the 30fps mode compared to other games she had played that was 60fps.

I had to switch it to 60fps for her so she could finish of the dlc, it was the first game she played at launch prior to the dlc and then she was spoilt by 60fps games after that, she didn't want to go back to 30fps.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Graphics today looks so good anyway that I'd rather we make advancements on other departments, increased frame rates, shorter load times, more advanced AI, dynamic worlds, smoother gameplay. We been pushing graphical fidelity for so long the rest has kinda taken a backseat.

 

[nkarafo]

No, it's the opposite.

Graphical fidelity is killing smooth frame rate and gameplay.

Videogames were 60fps from the start.

 

[ripeavocado]

Yes and no.

60fps kills graphical fidelity of course.

but

most games supports 60fps on next-gen because the consoles are not powerful enough to make them look substantially better without much effort therefore the easy path is to keep PS4-like graphics and support 60fps

 

[ripeavocado]

Videogames were 60fps from the start.

that's a lie, games have been sub 60fps since the 80s at least.

The need for 60fps is a meme that came out in the last 10 years on internet forums when website started to measure them on consoles.

Before that 95% of people didn't give a fuck about it.

 

[nkarafo]

that's a lie, games have been sub 60fps since the 80s at least.

At least look it up before you talk nonsense.

 

[ripeavocado]

At least look it up before you talk nonsense.

Absolutely not, play with any retro console.

the SNES for instance had an output of up to 60fps on NTSC (interlaced so half scanline was updated) and 50fps on PAL but doesn't mean the games were running at that framerate.
That would be like saying that PS5 and XSX have a framerate of 120fps because they allow it.

Overclocking In An SNES Emulator

The bsnes emulator has a new overclocking mode to eliminate slowdowns in SNES games while keeping the gameplay speed accurate. We’re emulating old SNES hardware on modern machines that are va…

hackaday.com

Enjoy this super smooth 60fps framerate from 1993!

 

[Hunnybun]

30fps is crap.

If you want your games to look like a smeary mess, it is perfect.

Higher framerates improve visual fidelity.

This is the frustrating thing about this conversation: 60fps LOOKS better than 30, not just plays better.

Tbh that's basically the reason I always choose it, because at 30fps once things start moving I find it impossible to really perceive the graphics in the same way.

Of course that's a trade off with other things that would also improve the graphics, but in my experience nothing improves visuals as much as the move to higher frame rates (although I'd personally concede that R&C at 40fps is a pretty bloody good compromise, but who knows if that will ever become standard).

 

[Whitecrow]

Todays graphics and 60 fps (or more) is all you need. Most (upcoming) PS5/XSX games have a cartoony graphics style, anyway.

I like immersion as much as gameplay, and 30 fps usually serves this purpose more than gamey 60fps. Thanks to the added fidelity, and also for not haviong the 'soap opera' effect of such smooth framerate.
I dont need 60fps more than I need fidelity.
No one in this forum have anyword in anything me, and anyone,

Quite frankly if these new consoles can't push great graphics at 60fps, they're junk.

You cant add all the workload you want so even a 3090 cant reach 60fps.
Nothing to do fps with being trash.

 

[rofif]

To those who prefer 30 fps, must be more of a movie fans than the game fans.

Cmon enough with the stupid assumptions.
30fps shaming is the stupidest thing ever. God of war 3 was 30fps... Nobody called it a movie. Dark souls was 30fps originally and nobody called it a movie.

Show a little empathy or shut the fuck up with this idiotic bs. It's all about getting used to. I've had 240bz monitor for years but I don't go around shaming 30 and 60fps. In fact I greatly enjoy these games.
You lock yourself in this stubborn bs... Your loss. Guess Bloodborne is a movie then. How I could finish it 5 times?! Oh the tragedy

 

[nkarafo]

Absolutely not, play with any retro console.

the SNES for instance had an output of up to 60fps on NTSC (interlaced so half scanline was updated) and 50fps on PAL but doesn't mean the games were running at that framerate.
That would be like saying that PS5 and XSX have a framerate of 120fps because they allow it.

Overclocking In An SNES Emulator

The bsnes emulator has a new overclocking mode to eliminate slowdowns in SNES games while keeping the gameplay speed accurate. We’re emulating old SNES hardware on modern machines that are va…

hackaday.com

Enjoy this super smooth 60fps framerate from 1993!

Lol, good job posting an FX chip 3D game. Because those were the rule, not the exception, am i right?

Again, you talk nonsense to justify your preference for graphics over frame rate. 60 FPS (or 50 for EU) was the STANDARD for the first 4 generations of console gaming. Play with your ATARI 2600 and tell me there is a single game that doesn't move it's sprites at 60 fps... Or how many NES, SNES, GENESIS, etc, games run at 60 and how many at 30 fps. At least 95% run at 60, most likely more.

30 fps (or lower) console games were the exception until 5th generation came along (PS1, SAT, N64) and sacrificed smooth gameplay for textured 3D at affordable prices.

 

[Hunnybun]

I am totally fine with 30fps. It just takes some time to get used to after posting 60. Just as 60 takes after playing 120.
Uncharted 4 or tlou2 were 30 fps and are better because of that. Not worse.
You remember how uncharted 4 looked. Not that it was a bit more fluid.

60 is better but if 30 can bring much better graphics and it's a suitable genre, 30 is fine.

To those stubbornly saying they will never play 30fps have again. Lol no bitch wait for next bit don't AAA.
On a serious note. Limit fps to 20 on pc and play for 10 minutes. Then switch to 30 and it will feel like heaven. It's all in the brain

It's not purely relative like that, though.

Everyone's brain effectively has an internal refresh rate which basically governs how they perceive motion. For most people it's around 60hz, and that's why 60fps tends to be the sweet spot.

Yes, going from 20 to 30 will look like a huge improvement, but that doesn't mean that same effect will exist for 60 to 90, or that anyone can ultimately get used to any fps with a sufficient adjustment period.

 

[The_Observer]

Of course it does but it's forbidden to say things like this as the "60fps60fps60fps!!!!444" cult will butcher you.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Lets just make 60 fps the standard and we will all suck it up for a bit and then the graphical improvements will come. Im not trying to go back to 30fps.

Before it was teh same with HD and 4K etc etc. Framerates suffering due to resolution. now maybe a bit it swung the other way but thats fine by me.

Totally agree. Let's have 60fps as a standard and let the Pro versions make up the delta vs next and current PC top cards.

 

[Maine84]

I'd rather have amazing graphics at 30fps. I only need 60 fps for fast pace multiplayer games

 

[sendit]

Console *only* gamers are cheap. They want generational leaps in graphics along with 4K/60 FPS. All priced at under 500 while paying the absolute minimum on games (Gamepass).

It just isn't happening. With that said, I don't think we've actually seen what these current gen consoles can really do (minus the series S).

 

[nkarafo]

I'd rather have amazing graphics at 30fps. I only need 60 fps for fast pace multiplayer games

We used to have amazing graphics at 60 fps. Rogue Leader, Metroid Prime, F-Zero GX are among the best looking Gamecube games and they run at 60 fps.

 

[Bulletbrain]

that's a lie, games have been sub 60fps since the 80s at least.

The need for 60fps is a meme that came out in the last 10 years on internet forums when website started to measure them on consoles.

Before that 95% of people didn't give a fuck about it.

Nobody gives a damn about any new and better tech until it comes out. Preferring 30fps is like preferring a Nokia 3310 over a latest iPhone (exaggeration but the point remains). When a new and better tech comes out it naturally becomes the new standard. Hopefully this gen is the time when 60fps becomes the standard.

Btw I'm not saying one is dumb to prefer 30fps. Not at all! You do you. But the 30fps crowd has to come to terms that 60fps is now quickly becoming the standard.

 

[JimboJones]

Let's get some 15fps games going and push them graphics to the moon!

 

[Braag]

Imo the main culprit is trying to push native 4k which requires so many sacrifices to be able to pull off.
60fps is a lot more important but devs should stick to 1440p with upscaled 4k.

 

[Paasei]

I like immersion as much as gameplay, and 30 fps usually serves this purpose more than gamey 60fps.

Stay with movies/series, please <3

 

[LimanimaPT]

Youre right OP, and don't forget to mention that literally every single game ever at 60fps looks worse than its 30fps counterpart.

60 should only be in multi-player games, never in any game where actually atmosphere and Fidelity matter.

Hum...Nope? PS4 GOW gives me the head aches...